12/21/24
May 25, 2006
Barry Bonds to get an Asterisk in Record Book *: * maybe not.
posted by Bill Lumbergh to baseball at 08:37 AM - 85 comments
I hope he's kidding about that asteriks on the record book. No one else has that, Bonds is no different or special to get that treatment.
posted by aztlan78 at 09:24 AM on May 25, 2006
While I DID read the link, and think it is good,I can't help thinking that it may be rather harsh. What goes next to Selig's name since this seems to have happened on his watch? Now he is going to wash his hands and blame Bonds? He is the Commissoner who allowed Baseball to trangress to this point. What goes after his name?
posted by volfire at 09:24 AM on May 25, 2006
The Onion's a hater, 's what it is... (Kidding!)
posted by ajaffe at 09:27 AM on May 25, 2006
I love it. I didn't think Bonds should get away without an asterisk, but I love this idea much more. It's so appropriate.
posted by KrisL at 09:29 AM on May 25, 2006
There's always at least one.... It's satire, folks. The Onion is satire. Nothing in it is real. Let's just get that out of the way now. Having said that, sounds like a good idea to me.
posted by cybermac at 09:45 AM on May 25, 2006
I hope he's kidding about that asteriks on the record book. No one else has that, Bonds is no different or special to get that treatment Bucky Dent received a similar treatment.
posted by yerfatma at 09:53 AM on May 25, 2006
I don't like the idea of F*#! How about something more like a smiley, but not :-) , instead, an assicon. Examples: (_*_) (_!_) (_o_) I actually have no opinion on BB myself.
posted by MrFrisby at 09:53 AM on May 25, 2006
I fail to understand how a man who has never tested positive for drugs of any kind; can receive an asterisk after his his greatest accomplishment. The player in Baltimore, who went before Congress said he had never used drugs and then tested positive for drugs; what goes after his name? Is he still in the game and if so why? When I woke up this morning, I could have sworn I was in America. In the America, you are innocent until proven guilty. I'm not a Barry Bonds fan, I'm a Dodger fan and we hate the (giants); but I am a fan of justice and truth. Until he is tested and it is proven that he does or has used drugs to inprove his game, there should be no asterisk. I think that if one of you were in the same boat, you would want to receive a trial aleast, before they hanged you.
posted by Crickette at 10:00 AM on May 25, 2006
Again, it's supposed to be funny. The article was more about Barry's personality and public image than steroid use. However, you allude to Palmeiro swearing before Congress that he never used steroids; what about Bonds swearing before a grand jury that he has taken steroids? Whether he knew what they were or not is irrelevant.
posted by cybermac at 10:14 AM on May 25, 2006
You should be more carefull where you sleep. We American's are a vengfull society!
posted by volfire at 10:15 AM on May 25, 2006
Yes, not the onion's best, but still funny. In the America, you are innocent until proven guilty. In a court of law, which baseball is not. The player in Baltimore, who went before Congress said he had never used drugs and then tested positive for drugs; what goes after his name? Is he still in the game and if so why? He's out of the game, pretty much blacklisted.
posted by justgary at 10:18 AM on May 25, 2006
I'm with Crickette...BUT...I'm pretty sure that MLB's steroid testing only tests for anabolic roids. According to reports, the roids Barry had been taking werent of that kind, therefor would not show up in testing. But, even though his head is bigger than Elmer Fudd's, I still believe he should be innocent until proven otherwise.
posted by HammerStorm at 10:22 AM on May 25, 2006
Read. The. Article. Before. Commenting. For F*#! sake, it's satire. And what justgary said.
posted by scully at 10:28 AM on May 25, 2006
The other great thing about America is we can have opinions and choices. It is not really required that we say "oh, he has not failed a test so we HAVE to accept him". Bonds is a bum and not good for baseball. He went on the DL to avoid taking the drug tests (yep you dont have to take them there). His stats are bogus and he hides behind race whenever his character is questioned. Thats bogus!! Hank Aaron is the greatest player ever and its not about Babe Ruth or race. Its about being a cheater and fake and wanting people to idiolize him. This is kind of an American thing these days, but we can still chose to not accept him over Hank Aaron. Hammering Hank was a quality person, no drugs, no rediculous public statements, no racist remarks, no string of kids out of wedlock, no court cases to not pay support for kids who were DNA (drug) tested to be his. Bonds needs more than an asterisk, he needs to be erased from the records. God Bless Hammering Hank!
posted by Truwriter at 10:32 AM on May 25, 2006
Meh, I didn't think it was very funny, it was kind of tired really. But that's okay, I like that people are still trying to find some humor in the situation. And innocent until proven guilty doesn't count for anything in the court of public opinion where this steroid witch hunt has been taking place.
posted by fenriq at 10:33 AM on May 25, 2006
So far the comments are better than the article.
posted by Folkways at 10:47 AM on May 25, 2006
Well, the last time I posted here I asked where are the Americans. Thank those of you that have shown up. Innocent until "proven" guilty.
posted by k-i-smet at 10:52 AM on May 25, 2006
I deduce that Truwriter is in fact the great Henry Aaron. Welcome to SpoFi, Hank!
posted by cybermac at 11:01 AM on May 25, 2006
I think it should be a SpoFi requirement that articles from The Onion be posted at least twice a week. If nothing else, to get our giggles at people who A) don't read the article and B) take strong stances in posts, regarding the "real" issue in play, even though other SpoFi members have pointed out 8 times that the flippin' article is a joke.
posted by littleLebowski at 11:08 AM on May 25, 2006
Ahhh yes....the innocent until "proven" guilty. It's been mentioned a few times...I think fenriq said it best that it doesn't count for anything in the court of public opinion. Hmmmm....didn't the courts find even OJ innocent? I'm sure Bonds will dedicate the rest of his life to find the real steroid abuser!
posted by Griff23Jordan at 11:11 AM on May 25, 2006
The article is stupid and bad satire. As long as anyone plays or is allowed to play baseball, that is their record. If we put footnotes on every player we dislike or like, the record book would be full of asterisks. Just play ball!!
posted by INOALOSER at 11:15 AM on May 25, 2006
I want an asterisk by my name. Can i be SummersEve* from now on?
posted by SummersEve at 12:08 PM on May 25, 2006
The article is stupid and bad satire. The sad thing here is if we graded this thread on a curve, you'd be getting at least an A- just for that. And putting your name on the paper.
posted by yerfatma at 12:14 PM on May 25, 2006
giggles for sure. Henry Aaron the greatest player ever! giggle, giggle. come now, be serious for just a moment. he has fifty home runs more than Babe Ruth in only 4000 more at bats. very impressive! of course, he hit only .305 compared to Ruth's .342 but so what?
posted by rchugh at 12:48 PM on May 25, 2006
I’d avoided reading this thread or the attached article for a while now, because I assumed it would be the same old tired arguments. I’m glad I stopped by. Threads like this make my day. I thought the article was pretty clever, if a little longer that it needed to be (in an SNL skit kind of way), but the comments here are much funnier. Amateur nailed this one with the first comment. Nice work, dude.
posted by Samsonov14 at 12:54 PM on May 25, 2006
but oj is innocent
posted by MW12 at 12:54 PM on May 25, 2006
I wouldn't say that we want an asterisk by his name because he's not liked. Let's get real. I don't know how many of you have ever been into strength training...I have. Look at what he looked like in his early years. A little guy, very fast, but not a slugger. Now, you wanna tell me he just woke up one morning and said "I'm tired of being the little guy, I think I'll put on 40 pounds of muscle." He says he didn't mean to use any steroids. Yep, and Bill Clinton never had sex with that woman. Oh, and he didn't inhale. Yep, I'm sure it was all the trainer's fault for doctoring the protein shakes. I think there should be some type of symbol next to his records. If you run a stop sign, even if you don't mean to, and the cops get you, you still get the ticket.
posted by FilaDog at 12:59 PM on May 25, 2006
Congrats to Barry, but I feel sorry for his father Bobby. Now there was a class baseball player, who now will have to deal with this contriversy for now on.
posted by Tigger1 at 01:03 PM on May 25, 2006
but oj is innocent he's right, I think Pedro Guerreo had something to do with those murders.
posted by HATER 187 at 01:05 PM on May 25, 2006
Congrats to Barry, but I feel sorry for his father Bobby. Now there was a class baseball player, who now will have to deal with this contriversy for now on. Or not.
posted by bperk at 01:11 PM on May 25, 2006
I think what we are doing here is confuseing Barry Bonds baseball records with the fact that he is an A** H#@%. It is his right as an American to be an A** H#@%, just go to any Cubs game and you will see three generations of American's exercisesing that right. As for the baseball side of it. I look at it the same as I do boxing, I would'nt want to do it but if two guys are willing to get in the ring and beat the H$!! out of each other I'm willing to watch. Same goes for Mr. Bond's, if he wants to turn himself into a human bobble head in order to hit the ball out of the park I say ,hey, take more and hit it farther. This does two things, it entertains the masses and when his man hood dries up and falls off, he won't he won't be able to reproduce .
posted by CB900 at 01:18 PM on May 25, 2006
Oh, God, no!!! Say it isn't true!! The Onion's articles are....are...FAKE?? I have based every relevant, life-altering decision on the truisms gleened from there!! BTW, if it's fake (i.e. satirical) does that mean Barry is a nice guy who's been clean his whole career?
posted by THX-1138 at 01:18 PM on May 25, 2006
I don't want to ruin this, but I do want to stress-test it before the thread gets pushed down the page, so: THE LINKED ARTICLE IS A WORK OF PARODY AND IS NOT BASED ON ANYTHING HAPPENING IN THE REAL WORLD.
posted by yerfatma at 01:19 PM on May 25, 2006
I think there should be some type of symbol next to his records. If you run a stop sign, even if you don't mean to, and the cops get you, you still get the ticket. But what if no one saw you run the stop sign, but instead made some back-of-the-envelope calculations that suggest you HAD to run the stop sign in order to get to where you were going in the time you did. And what if you said you didn't think it was a stop sign, but your navigator told you it was a "yield to on coming traffic" sign, and you didn't see any traffic so you didn't slow down and that's how you got where you were going so quickly? And what if you took a useless analogy and then stretched it well beyond the point of credibility? And what if you felt somewhat dirty for even bothering to post in this ridiculous discussion? Huh? Well? What about that?
posted by grum@work at 01:20 PM on May 25, 2006
Can i be SummersEve* from now on? Asterisks are overused. How about SummersEve§?
posted by MrFrisby at 01:24 PM on May 25, 2006
Truwriter: Hank Aaron is the greatest player ever and its not about Babe Ruth or race. It's about you not knowing what you're talking about. Babe was by far the best ever. He changed the game, and would likely have gone into the Hall of Fame as a pitcher had the Yankees not had the foresight to put him in the lineup every day. Hank was great, one of the best ever, but there's only one BEST.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 01:29 PM on May 25, 2006
Actually, we may need a SpoFi asterisk to signify that something is a parody.
posted by Joey Michaels at 01:32 PM on May 25, 2006
FilaDog, I'm sorry- so Barry was not a slugger before he supposedly started taking the roids- is that what you are saying? A little guy, very fast, but not a slugger. So the fact that his average slugging percentage was .603 for the ten years prior to when he supposedly started taking the drugs makes him just another scrawny guy? I just want to make sure I understand your seasoned perspective. /and if a bear shits in the woods and I don't step in it then i don't really give a flying f*#!
posted by MW12 at 01:41 PM on May 25, 2006
Asterisk everything from 1986 on.....around then only a few real players stand out.Brett,Molitor,Yount,Bench,Carter,Morgan,Gwynn,Henderson,Ripken,Winfield,Fisk,Rose,Perez,and a few more.If these guy's juiced ,i'd really have no respect for the game.I'm hanging on hoping it will clean up, but i have to go back to these player's au natural.Mays,Aaron,Williams the last 3 greats. Ruth....alot of lobbed balls thrown to him and hardly anyone reached into the 90mph range.I take it for what it's worth.I only have these to keep me interested.In fact,Maris was probally the last REAL natural when it comes to single season hr's.God save the game.........
posted by irishmic2004@sbcglobal.net at 01:51 PM on May 25, 2006
Wondering out loud...wtf does grum drive?
posted by tselson at 01:52 PM on May 25, 2006
Asterisk everything from 1986 on.....around then only a few real players stand out.Brett,Molitor,Yount,Bench,Carter,Morgan,Gwynn,Henderson,Ripken,Winfield,Fisk,Rose,Perez,and a few more. A. Based on what? B. How do you handle the Dead Ball Era v. The 1930s? Do you ignore all the records from those eras too, given how far they vary from average?
posted by yerfatma at 02:03 PM on May 25, 2006
Yep, and Bill Clinton never had sex with that woman. Oh, and he didn't inhale. Yep, I'm sure it was all the trainer's fault for doctoring the protein shakes Why do republicans always mention Bill Clinton in a Barry Bonds thread in a serious manner? Filadog, what if you accidentally slipped and landed directly on my fist, is it still assault? It's about you not knowing what you're talking about. Babe was by far the best ever. He changed the game, and would likely have gone into the Hall of Fame as a pitcher had the Yankees not had the foresight to put him in the lineup every day. Hank was great, one of the best ever, but there's only one BEST. Babe Ruth was the best all around hitter, not the best all around player. Barry Bonds is the best all around player ever. Ford is better than Chevy, Biggie was better than Tupac, the color blue is better than the color red, i can beat you in a race, and my girlfriend is better looking than yours. Hopefully the previous statements will help you see how dumb someone looks when they offer their opinion as fact. To suggest that someone "doesn't know what they are talking about" when they offer their opinion about something is the epitome of narrow-mindedness. He didn't say he could prove it in a court of law. By the way, the sun is better than the moon. That, I can prove. God save the game God save the people who think You need to save the game, and save everyone else while You're at it.
posted by Bishop at 02:04 PM on May 25, 2006
THE LINKED ARTICLE IS A WORK OF PARODY AND IS NOT BASED ON ANYTHING HAPPENING IN THE REAL WORLD. Nice try. You're not fooling me.
posted by qbert72 at 02:06 PM on May 25, 2006
The four major sports: NBA NFL MLB* NHL
posted by MW12 at 02:06 PM on May 25, 2006
irishmic@sbc123redyellowblue: Wow, you have a LOT of debatable "facts" in your post. Just how do you know how fast people pitched to Ruth? You make it sound like pitchers rolled over on their backs and peed themselves whenever he came up to bat. I have to believe that they tried harder than that.
posted by THX-1138 at 02:11 PM on May 25, 2006
Hank was great, one of the best ever, but there's only one BEST. Yeah, and that's Ted Williams. There's no way that Selig or anyone else is going to add an asterix (or anything else) to Barry's record. Bonds' plays in an era when other players also take steroids, but Barry just happens to be the only one going for Hank Aaron's record. Can you imagine the kind of stats Ken Griffey, Jr. would have if he took sterioids. Mark McGwire broke Roger Maris' record while taking something that now is banned by MLB. MLB has fostered this era of steroid use by ignoring it. Let's not blame Barry for taking advantage of the situation.
posted by Lester at 02:17 PM on May 25, 2006
Wondering out loud...wtf does grum drive? 2001 Chrysler 300 (the pre-gangsterization verison), fully loaded. Barry Bonds is the best all around player ever. Not so fast, hot shot. If we are considering "all-around", then Willie Mays might get my vote for his better speed and fielding than Bonds, which might make up for his (slightly) worse hitting.
posted by grum@work at 02:17 PM on May 25, 2006
Crickette hit the nail on the head. He's not guilty of anything until there's proof. People need to leave the man alone.
posted by cmsickman at 02:47 PM on May 25, 2006
There's no way that Selig or anyone else is going to add an asterix (or anything else) to Barry's record. My respect for Bud Selig would skyrocket if he added Asterix to anybody's record.
posted by cobra! at 02:50 PM on May 25, 2006
Biggie better than Tupac?! Alright, Bishop, now you've gone too far!!
posted by Desert Dog at 03:00 PM on May 25, 2006
he is good but the media hype on steriods has ruined his reputation with the sport. i say let him be.* should stand until they figure this out.the sport is like the gover ernment,guilty until proven innocent
posted by eviltrekker at 03:09 PM on May 25, 2006
Not so fast, hot shot. If we are considering "all-around", then Willie Mays might get my vote Honus Wagner?
posted by yerfatma at 03:13 PM on May 25, 2006
Forget the asterisk for records. Otherwise every sports record ever broken would need some sort of footnote. It is what it is. Training is better, nutrition is better, length of seasons change, weather is better due to dome stadiums, athletes get bigger and faster etc... and the chemicals and supplements get better. Maybe Babe Ruth should have a asterisk stating that he hit his 714 HRs while drinking and partying up a storm otherwise he may have hit 1000 of em. Maybe Lawrence Taylor needs an asterisk stating that he was the greatest LB to play the game and still managed to be a cokehead at the same time. Maybe Emmett Smith needs an asterisk because once a record is set some guys just hang around long enough to pass it. Don't you think Jim Brown retired when he did because there was no more records to break, and that he would have kept playing if there was a major record to surpass one or two more seasons within reach? Its all stupid to me. No matter what Bonds has done he still has to hit em out of the park. So far regardless of what anybody in history has done, only one guy has hit more of them out than Bonds. Possibly Bonds will surpass Aaron but whether he does or doesn't it is always true that those who follow have the advantage of being able to learn from those who come before. So when they surpass the achievements of the past, it doesn't lessen those achievements. Like they say "Records are made to be broken"
posted by Atheist at 03:15 PM on May 25, 2006
Fila Dog: Yep, and Bill Clinton never had sex with that woman. Bonds' story of having unknowingly used steroids is similar to Clinton's tortured explanation of how his activity with Monica Lewinsky didn't meet the agreed legal definition of sex ("It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is"). In each case, did everyone believe they were both lying? Almost everyone. Was there anything anyone could do to punish either one of them before it was proven they committed a crime? Nope. Clinton stayed in office for over a year after he perjured himself in his deposition in Paula Jones' sexual harassment suit before his eventual acquittal in 1999 (he agreed to plead "No contest" to perjury and obstruction in his final days as President and had his law license suspended, which he has since regained). Bonds will finish this season (if he makes it) and will probably retire like he said he would during spring training. How future generations will see both Clinton and Bonds is hard to say. Some will say that Clinton, because he committed a felony and was impeached, was a bad President. Some will say he was a good President despite his impeachment, emphasizing that he was acquitted of the charges against him, and instead point to the booming economy during his eight years in office. As for Bonds, some will say he's not truly a great player because he deliberately cheated (presuming that someone eventually will nail down evidence, and not rely upon gossip). Other people will take a look at his history before he (allegedly) began cheating, and say that while he may not have been honest, that doesn't take away his greatness. Similar cases have been made for Shoeless Joe Jackson (lifetime average .356), who was -- like his Chisox teammates -- acquitted of charges of throwing the 1919 World Series, but was banned for life from baseball by Commissioner Landis nonetheless. For thirty years, baseball fans were told by the Commissioner that Roger Maris was not worthy of Babe Ruth's single-season home run record. That was wrong, because it wasn't Maris' fault that the leagues expanded and the number of games per season increased. Was it Bonds fault if he broke the rules? Absolutely. Would Bonds have broken the rules if Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association had agreed on an aggressive ban on steroids in the late '80s the way the NFL and NFLPA did? I doubt it.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 03:18 PM on May 25, 2006
This is hopeless.
posted by qbert72 at 03:31 PM on May 25, 2006
This is hopeless. Amen
posted by commander cody at 03:35 PM on May 25, 2006
Is it me or is it possible that the article was actually an indictment on MLB and not on Bonds himself? That F*#! next to his name is the Onion's way of saying that MBL should admit that they F*#!ed up by allowing this to happen. Just a thought.
posted by MW12 at 03:40 PM on May 25, 2006
Is it me or is it possible that the article was actually an indictment on MLB and not on Bonds himself? Way to derail the discussion by talking about the article this post is linked to, jerk.
posted by Samsonov14 at 04:31 PM on May 25, 2006
MLB was burrying their heads in the sand over the steroid issue, while enjoying renewed popularity of the sport after strikes and fan dessertions, because athletes suddenly started hitting homeruns in record breaking numbers (McGuire, Sosa, Bonds). Does anybody really think they wanted to stop steroid use? They benefited from it. One of the best baseball players of all time, Pete Rose, is banned from the MLB Hall of Fame. Why, because he bet on sports. Big F'ing deal. What does that have to do with his accomplishments on the baseball field. Until they induct Rose into the hall of fame, I can't believe they care much about how a player effects baseball history and the record book. Yes the article is more of an indictment of MLB than it is of Bonds, if you ask me.
posted by Atheist at 04:38 PM on May 25, 2006
Why, because he bet on sports. Big F'ing deal. What does that have to do with his accomplishments on the baseball field. He bet on baseball. Big F'ing deal? It's a whole 'nother subject, so I wont debate it, but if you can't see how betting on baseball could, well, destroy the game, I'm not sure what to tell you.
posted by justgary at 04:43 PM on May 25, 2006
Where is the dead horse thingy? Where is the train a comin' thingy? I am inept so I have to wait for the SpoFi vets to put up white flags on things like this. What are we discussing, again?
posted by THX-1138 at 05:18 PM on May 25, 2006
You like that, horse? Yeah, you love it.
posted by Samsonov14 at 05:53 PM on May 25, 2006
HOORAH!!!
posted by THX-1138 at 06:29 PM on May 25, 2006
Why do republicans always mention Bill Clinton in a Barry Bonds thread in a serious manner Bonds' story of having unknowingly used steroids is similar to Clinton's tortured explanation of how his activity with Monica Lewinsky didn't meet the agreed legal definition of sex ("It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is"). In each case, did everyone believe they were both lying? Almost everyone. Was there anything anyone could do to punish either one of them before it was proven they committed a crime? Nope. Clinton stayed in office for over a year after he perjured himself in his deposition in Paula Jones' sexual harassment suit before his eventual acquittal in 1999 (he agreed to plead "No contest" to perjury and obstruction in his final days as President and had his law license suspended, which he has since regained). Bonds will finish this season (if he makes it) and will probably retire like he said he would during spring training. How future generations will see both Clinton and Bonds is hard to say. Some will say that Clinton, because he committed a felony and was impeached, was a bad President. Some will say he was a good President despite his impeachment, emphasizing that he was acquitted of the charges against him, and instead point to the booming economy during his eight years in office Holy shit, be careful what you ask for, cause you might just get it. L.N. Smithee, would please offer some insight as to why danielson was forced to use the crane technique to defeat johnny in the all valley karate championship. Also please discuss the effectiveness of the following techniques, wax on wax off, sand da floor, paint da house, and paint da fence. Feel free to use a pie chart and or some multi-colored graphs.
posted by Bishop at 06:37 PM on May 25, 2006
That article was funny shit. I just read the whole convo too- lmao
posted by redsoxrgay at 07:08 PM on May 25, 2006
Bishop: L.N. Smithee, would please offer some insight as to why danielson was forced to use the crane technique to defeat johnny in the all valley karate championship. Also please discuss the effectiveness of the following techniques, wax on wax off, sand da floor, paint da house, and paint da fence. Feel free to use a pie chart and or some multi-colored graphs. Sorry. If you couldn't tell just by watching, there's no explaining it to you.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 07:15 PM on May 25, 2006
What a load.....
posted by chrisly13 at 07:24 PM on May 25, 2006
Forget the asterix. The MLB should just legalize steroids altogether. "May the team with the best performance enhancing drugs win"
posted by oneunderontheday at 07:32 PM on May 25, 2006
Its a ways up the page, and TOTALLY off topic, but this whole thread has been all over the place so here goes..... OJ was not found innocent. He was found "not guilty". There is a HUGE difference. Innocent means you did nothing wrong, "not guilty" means wer couldn't prove it.
posted by elovrich at 07:51 PM on May 25, 2006
Innocent means you did nothing wrong, "not guilty" means wer couldn't prove it. By your definition, nobody is truly innocent if they go to trial by jury. David might disagree with you..
posted by grum@work at 08:01 PM on May 25, 2006
elovrich: OJ was not found innocent. He was found "not guilty". There is a HUGE difference. Innocent means you did nothing wrong, "not guilty" means wer couldn't prove it. I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe a jury has the option of saying "innocent" or "not guilty." It's either "guilty" or "not." BTW, there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever OJ's a double murderer. IMHO, he would be serving a life sentence today if the photos of him wearing the rare "ugly ass shoes" that were used as evidence in his civil trial defeat had been available for the criminal case. The shoes fit, they couldn't acquit.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 08:14 PM on May 25, 2006
Exactly my point Smithee; We still hear that OJ was found innocent. He was found "not guilty". Grum: I do not mean to say that no one is innocent if they go to trial, heaven knows that innocent men sit in our jails and prisons, hell just ask them. *smiles* The point I was trying to make, and obviously failed at, is that just because OJ got off, or that Barry hasn't tested positive for whatever the hell MLB is testing for, does NOT mean that they are INNOCENT. They may very well be, but the facts, as I and many others see them, tell a different story.
posted by elovrich at 08:30 PM on May 25, 2006
Semantics are a funny thing - but I'm pretty sure the saying remains "Innocent until proven guilty." Now, me and OJ and Barry Bonds (F*#!) - we're with Balki Bartokomous.
posted by MW12 at 08:50 PM on May 25, 2006
WTF man. Who gives a rats ass. Why mention OJ Here? Can someone explain the relationship between OJ and Barry Bonds to me? I would assume that some mention OJ when discussing Bonds because in their opinion, these are 2 African Americans that have gotten away with something. Why not mention the 4 cops who beat Rodney King. They got found "not guilty". Can we hear your assholery opinion on them? If OJ was on the same tape slicing and dicing, he would have gotten the chair. These cops were on tape beating the piss out of the guy. Regardless of what he did. He was unarmed, and no 1 man is a threat to 4 men with guns and clubs. Why don't the Bonds-OJ republicans ever mention those cops? Now can you see how the OJ-bonds comparison can slightly appear to have at least a hint of racial motivation? Man I wish OJ was married to Twanna Brawley instead of Nicole. He'd probably be hosting Monday night football by now. The point I was trying to make, and obviously failed at, is that just because OJ got off, or that Barry hasn't tested positive for whatever the hell MLB is testing for, does NOT mean that they are INNOCENT. Elovrich, be more concerned with your own guilt or innocence. I'll take care of the rest. -God
posted by Bishop at 10:46 PM on May 25, 2006
Man I wish OJ was married to Twanna Brawley instead of Nicole. He'd probably be hosting Monday night football by now. ROTFLMAO!!!! That has to be one of the funniest lines I've ever seen posted here on so many different levels. No matter where you come down on OJ, Bonds or anything else in this thread if you didn't laugh at this you have no sense of humor! No shit, it cracked me up and I damn near woke my wife by laughing.
posted by commander cody at 10:59 PM on May 25, 2006
"I want an asterisk by my name. Can i be SummersEve* from now on?" SummersEve* makes me feel fine *blowing through the jasmine in my mind
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:38 PM on May 25, 2006
*This is not salad dressing
posted by SummersEve at 02:10 AM on May 26, 2006
Thanks CC, thought I'd throw that in for folks like you and I who can maintain a sense of humor during debates, regardless of what side of the street they were born on.
posted by Bishop at 03:34 AM on May 26, 2006
OJ was not found innocent. He was found "not guilty". There is a HUGE difference. Innocent means you did nothing wrong, "not guilty" means wer couldn't prove it. Actually, in the eyes of the courts, OJ is innocent. Innocent until proven guilty is a concept for the criminal justice system. Logically, if someone is innocent until proven guilty, and the person is not found guilty, then that person is innocent. Since "innocent until proven guilty" has no application outside of the criminal justice system, it doesn't mean anything whatsoever outside of that context. The same goes for someone who is found guilty, but didn't do it. They are guilty in the eyes of the criminal justice system, but that doesn't make it so.
posted by bperk at 08:04 AM on May 26, 2006
I am confused with all of these views. They say Barry is too old to be doing this and way past his prime, etc. Though Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth were both 40+ when they hit their 714. It takes years to get to this number and just because the guy hit more in a 3-5 yr span during his "prime" years that it should cause his entire career to have a * I mean this would be like saying anything Jordan did with the Wizards doesn't count in the books. It can never be proved for Barry and until it is there should never be a *. I mean if baseball came out and said that everything from X date would not count for Barry, I see him retiring the same day. He wants these records and is deserving to have these for how the media has treated him for so many years.. just cause the man is an Ass doesn't mean he can't be the greatest hitter of all times.. look at the other greatest hitter.. Big Ted.. he was also loved by the media.. now may he RIP with Walt Disney
posted by warstda at 09:48 AM on May 26, 2006
mr_crash_davis: SummersEve* makes me feel fine *blowing through the jasmine in my mind Jasmine's in your mind while SummersEve's making you feel fine? Be careful, pal -- call out the right name, or you're in big trouble.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 11:09 AM on May 26, 2006
warstda: Big Ted.. he was also loved by the media.. now may he RIP with Walt Disney It's a crying shame Ted Williams is mostly mentioned nowadays as a punch line. Ted's son was a lowlife, trading on his father's name and fame, finally spoiling Ted's twilight years as an ambassador of the game by roping him into his petty feud with his sister. For the record, Disney was not cryogenically preserved.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 11:20 AM on May 26, 2006
Roger Maris, Hank Aaron and the Babe all excelled because of raw talent. Steroids or growth hormones or whatever else these jockstraps are using these days weren't even thought of at the time. Barry Bonds has used steroids. His numbers should not even be in record books, but I guess every record set since the 80's probably has a trace of steroid use in it. Another thing, all though I despise Bud Selig, all the blame for the steroid problem in baseball can't totally lye with him. I first heard about steroid use in baseball in the late 80's. What about the commisioners then? Peter Ueberoth (84-88), Bart Giamatti (88-89) and Francis Vincent (89-92) all steered baseball in the direction its going today. Instead of trying to solve the steroid issue they were busy banning Pete Rose for placig a few bets, and making sure the ban stayed intact. But good ol' Mr. Selig decides to tell everyone that he wasn't aware of steroid use in the sport. We need to get a commisioner that doesn't have his head up his ass, and institute mandatory drug testing. Millions of Americans are required to go through one or more random drug tests because of their jobs. Despite the fact that the players union doesn't like a mandatory drug screening, I think it should be required for all sports. Public schools require you pass one, as does the NCAA. Pro athletes should think of it as part of the job and I think if Pete Rose can be banned for life for betting I think any player found to have used steroids or any of the other banned substances should damn sure be banned for life. They need to ease up on Rose and crack down on the real problem. Until then baseball will remain shrouded in controversy.
posted by SoonerLes at 05:54 AM on May 27, 2006
Roger Maris, Hank Aaron and the Babe all excelled because of raw talent. Steroids or growth hormones or whatever else these jockstraps are using these days weren't even thought of at the time Testosterone was synthesized in the US in 1958. Maris hit 61 in 1961. Testosterone was first synthesized back in the 1930's. The Soviets were allegedly the first to use it in the Olympics in the 1940's and 1950's. Syn-Test was also used in WW II to help malnourished soldiers to gain weight. 2 words: Goo Gle
posted by Bishop at 06:19 AM on May 27, 2006
Not bad ... not their best stuff though. Now we sit back and wait for 145 anti-Bonds comments from people who didn't read the link.