March 02, 2006

Hidden: Two Vikings claim discrimination.: Daunte Culpepper and Moe Williams are accusing a prosecutor of discriminating against them when charging them of crimes in the love boat scandal.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia to football at 02:07 PM - 66 comments

I'm confused- are Dante and Moe playing the race card or the stupid card?

posted by irunfromclones at 02:15 PM on March 02, 2006

Racial Discrimination? Uh oh, I can hear Jonnie Cochran rolling over in his grave! Look out, here comes Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton! I smell a lawsuit by the NAACP!

posted by wingnut4life at 02:22 PM on March 02, 2006

Anyone want to guess where these two fine upstanding citizens of their community end up playing next year???

posted by whoknoz at 02:35 PM on March 02, 2006

I bet Oakland. Those idiots will take ANY-CRIMINAL-ONE!

posted by Wrigley South at 02:38 PM on March 02, 2006

i hate to say it, but white people never see racism in ANYTHING. dont you think its even a little strange that the two white guys werent even mentioned in the media, and were ignored by prosecutors? the good ol' USA is the most most racist country in the world. most people just dont realize that.

posted by grizzay at 02:45 PM on March 02, 2006

Saying the "race card" means I don't understand this since i'm white.??

posted by Big Dookie at 02:49 PM on March 02, 2006

WAH WAH WAH.... When all else fails cry racism. Maybe racism is the reason Culpepper couldn't win on the field last season. Maybe racism is the reason Brad Johnson got the team winning again. Maybe racism is the reason he got arrested and charged with lewd behavior, after all most racist police forces don't have anything better to do than falsly arrest professional athlete millionaires since there are no other black criminals to harass. Then again maybe Culpepper is just not too bright, a mediocre player, reckless and socially irresponsible. HMMMM let me think on it.

posted by Atheist at 02:55 PM on March 02, 2006

I'm glad to know racism doesn't exist Atheist, I'll call the Univ of Michigan students complaining about Affirmative Action. LOL!!!! reverse racism counts right??!

posted by Big Dookie at 03:05 PM on March 02, 2006

i hate to say it, but white people never see racism in ANYTHING. dont you think its even a little strange that the two white guys werent even mentioned in the media, and were ignored by prosecutors? the good ol' USA is the most most racist country in the world. most people just dont realize that. There is plenty of racism but don't you think its possible that the white guys weren't mentioned because they weren't famous professional athletes. They aren't news worthy. I'm sure if Peyton Manning or Brad Johnson allegedly committed the same lewd acts their names would have gotten mentioned. Of course unless the prosecutor or cops were black racism wouldn't make a good defense. OJ Simpson cried racism, and that he was framed by the cops. He also said drug dealers killed his wife, and his knees were too weak to have done the killing, (they're ok for golf just not killing), and that the glove didn't fit. Hey did he ever find the real killers? If there was any racism in the OJ case it was that the jury was full of racists who aquitted him.

posted by Atheist at 03:06 PM on March 02, 2006

So, just so I understand, anytime someone alleges racial discrimination, it is bogus and an example of someone "pulling the race card"? Racial discrimination is just a figment of one's imagination or a weapon used by unscrupulous individuals?

posted by bperk at 03:06 PM on March 02, 2006

There is plenty of racism but don't you think its possible that the white guys weren't mentioned because they weren't famous professional athletes. That doesn't explain why they haven't been charged with a crime -- only why the media wouldn't be interested in the story. And, what does OJ have to do with this case at all? Is that your ace in the hole that helps you win all your "racism doesn't exist" arguments?

posted by bperk at 03:09 PM on March 02, 2006

bperk What ever happen to right or wrong. Whenever race is brought up it is almost always an out because you are dead wrong, so why not cry racism to throw people off of the oeiginal issue

posted by gdritsas at 03:13 PM on March 02, 2006

Could it be that they didn't do anything to begin with? That would explain why they haven't been mentioned or charged with anything.

posted by dbt302 at 03:14 PM on March 02, 2006

OJ is what whites now use to show equality. Since he is of the ever so exclusive " money bought me out of prison" club. It's only good if your wealthy though.

posted by Big Dookie at 03:14 PM on March 02, 2006

Big Dookie - Affirmative action is reverse racism. Racism in either direction is wrong. It's that whole two wrongs thing. I don't deny racism but in the case being discussed, what relevance does it have? Either Culpepper and Williams did it or they didn't. A court will decide. If you get a ticket on the freeway for going over the speed limit in a Ferarri, the fact that many others in lower profile cars are also speeding but did not get caught does little to mitigate your guilt. My point being, is it possible a high profile player in the NFL may get noticed more whether he is white or black than somebody else behaving the same way? I believe being rich and famous is a bigger factor in this case than being black or white. But that racism card is just so easy to throw out there.

posted by Atheist at 03:18 PM on March 02, 2006

doesn't everyone know that they found a dna strain in all human beings that can be traced back to a man in africa a longtime ago who probably started the human race which means were all brothers(no pun intended)all related.i guess you can say were all black men,so with that i just wanna say that the next time i get fired or something happens to me instead of blaming it on myself and taking resposibility for my own actions i'm gonna say"hey it must be because im black"then continue to file a lawsuit!Yeah baby America rules

posted by InamedmykidBRETT at 03:19 PM on March 02, 2006

i hate to say it, but white people never see racism in ANYTHING. dont you think its even a little strange that the two white guys werent even mentioned in the media, and were ignored by prosecutors? Thats as much of a stereotype as I have ever heard. Most of the civil rights laws now on the books were passed by a majority of voters, the majority of which were white. The white crewman may not have been mentioned prior to this because they either did nothing to warrant an accusation or there wasn't enough evidence. Their involvement would certainly have come up before the main suspects in this episode made it a defense motion.

posted by irunfromclones at 03:21 PM on March 02, 2006

doesn't everyone know that they found a dna strain in all human beings that can be traced back to a man in africa a longtime ago Yes, all of us do know. Just be sure to include that the most likely locale for this one man was Northern Africa close to the Mediterranean Sea somewhere between modern Israel and ancient Persia, not the jungles of Central Africa or the plains of Southern Africa, and therefore far less likely to be black.

posted by irunfromclones at 03:27 PM on March 02, 2006

And, what does OJ have to do with this case at all? Is that your ace in the hole that helps you win all your "racism doesn't exist" arguments? I never claimed racism didn't exist. As for the reason for the OJ analogy, it was a the most notable high profile professional athlete case where, when all the evidence pointed to guilt beyond a doubt, and there was no basis for a solid defense, the race card was played sucessfully. Like someone else said, when it's played now, it is usually a sign that the defense has no explaination, no alibi, no excuse, and no credible witnesses to counter the charge. It must be nice, white guys usually have to go for the temporary insanity defense in desperation.

posted by Atheist at 03:30 PM on March 02, 2006

Give me a break, atheist. OJ got acquitted because he had the best lawyers money can buy. The defense team came up with a brilliant and simple legal argument that the jury couldn't resist -- "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit." It was a brilliant legal strategy. Couple that with Scheck and Neufeld dismantling of the DNA evidence as no one else can and you have yourself an acquittal regardless of race.

posted by bperk at 03:36 PM on March 02, 2006

Again fellas righ and wrong. Is that to easy?

posted by gdritsas at 03:36 PM on March 02, 2006

bperk. Bullshit. How come the civil trial found him Guilty? They were afarid of another riot in LA. Who cares if you are stupid enough to burn down your own nieghberhood if you do not get your way, you do not desirve one

posted by gdritsas at 03:39 PM on March 02, 2006

Why can't we all just get along?

posted by wingnut4life at 03:42 PM on March 02, 2006

i don't know much about the case, but it seems to me that the defending attorneys are doing anything they can to avoid trial, which, in the case of embarassing actions involving public figures, is among the least surprising things i've ever heard. i try not to get too into racism discussions because they usually don't end well, but affirmative action was never intended to confer special advantage, but rather to mitigate special disadvantage. it doesn't really fall under the "reverse racism" category as cleanly as people like to pretend. and the ferrari example is viciously flawed. it's one thing to get pulled over driving a flashy car. it's another if you're driving the same speed as all the other drivers and you are constantly getting pulled over and ticketed because of your skin color.

posted by jdaverin at 03:42 PM on March 02, 2006

How come the civil trial found him Guilty? The civil trial found him Responsible (not guilty since that is a criminal distinction). There was a lower standard of proof (only a preponderance of the evidence). And, he didn't have the same lawyers anyway (since those were criminal lawyers).

posted by bperk at 03:45 PM on March 02, 2006

Affirmative action is positivly reverse racism. Just look at the city of Detroit. Affirmative action at its best, and it ruined a nice city.

posted by gdritsas at 03:46 PM on March 02, 2006

and the ferrari example is viciously flawed. Totally. Everyone knows all black players drive Cadillacs.

posted by irunfromclones at 03:47 PM on March 02, 2006

Bperk - I dissagree. OJ was aquitted because he had great lawyers and they won the case early on in jury selection. They seated a largely black jury, painted the lead investigator as a racist, a let the jury do the rest. The DNA evidence was never refuted. They only tried to create a racist plot for the planting and handling of the evidence. Most reasonable people were outraged at the verdict, unless they just felt the white bitch deserved it and the verdict was payback for the injustices of the past.

posted by Atheist at 03:50 PM on March 02, 2006

Yeah, affirmative action and anti-black racism are totally comparable. I still remember the day that the University of Michigan admissions committee dressed up in their white robes, surrounded my house in the dead of night and put the torch to it, all in the name of fulfilling their racial quotas. Give me a break, fellow crackers.

posted by Venicemenace at 03:51 PM on March 02, 2006

I'm always amazed ar how popular these "race" threads are. The fact that people jump on so quickly to these, and are so quick to resort to insult in lieu of any substantial argument just goes to show that racism is at least still an issue today; if it was old news, people would not get so emotional about it. I dont know if Daunte and Moe have any valid points, but it does seem obivous that racism is not as absent from today's social spere as many people would like to insinuate.

posted by everett at 03:54 PM on March 02, 2006

Cracka pleeeeze!!! We really need to remember that this is SpoFi, not CivilLibFi. Why don't we just back away from this issue and move on, ok? Give peace a chance.

posted by wingnut4life at 03:56 PM on March 02, 2006

Just sick and tired of one group crying foul all of the time when will they get it. What a nice place this would be if we all worried about ourselve, found out we are not all equal and went on with our lives

posted by gdritsas at 03:57 PM on March 02, 2006

Here's an article that more fully explains the reason that the two white men weren't charged (read the last 5 paragraphs). It seems like a reasonable explanation to me.

posted by BradBehleISU at 03:58 PM on March 02, 2006

Atheist, I don't think you watched the trial. The prosecution was completely ineffective. They made the scientific evidence so excruciatingly painful and long that it was difficult to comprehend. The defense lawyers completely dismantled the DNA evidence because they pointed out the hundreds of ways that the evidence was wrongly handled. It was ugly. And while you think that "most reasonable people" were outraged, litigators and those involved with our jury system were not at all surprised. Simple wins every time.

posted by bperk at 04:00 PM on March 02, 2006

Let's not forget that at the time of the OJ criminal trial, DNA was not considered the infallible smoking gun that it is now... (I know this is all O-T but it's obviously got SpoFites interested so what the hell.)

posted by Venicemenace at 04:03 PM on March 02, 2006

Man it's hot in here, I just beamed in thinking I was going to bash Daunte, Moe and the Vikings.(wonderful past time, by the way). The discussion appears to be about assaulting that expired equine.

posted by kosmicdebris at 04:03 PM on March 02, 2006

You want to move away from the issue and you use racist remarks like cracker. Please what?

posted by kck54 at 04:03 PM on March 02, 2006

Whenever race is brought up it is almost always an out because you are dead wrong Just like the Scottboro Nine. Just look at the city of Detroit. Affirmative action at its best, and it ruined a nice city. I'm sure the declining auto industry, poor school systems, and a history of crime had nothing to do with that.

posted by grum@work at 04:05 PM on March 02, 2006

Venicemenace - I haven't heard anybody deny the atrocities of racism. If someone put a torch to Dante Culpeppers house while wearing a white robe his claim of racism would certainly merit sympathy and appropriate action. If he were denied entry to college or to be the quarterback of the Vikings based on his skin color that would be the equilivent of racism or affirmative action. Unfortunately he got busted having a lewd public booty party on a boat. Where is the racism? Hey I have noticed that very few short white guys get to play in the NBA. Do you think we could have affirmative action to get the league more equally split. Maybe some affirmative action to get fat chicks into Playboy. Must be some kind of discrimination going on there. I haven't seen one. Would it be racist to have a NAAWP or a White Entertainment Awards Show. Let's stop throwing stones and face the facts. Those Viking got arrested for their actions not their color.

posted by Atheist at 04:07 PM on March 02, 2006

I still remember the day that the University of Michigan admissions committee dressed up in their white robes, surrounded my house in the dead of night and put the torch to it, all in the name of fulfilling their racial quotas. But did they yell "Wolverines!" first?

posted by chris2sy at 04:11 PM on March 02, 2006

kck54, you really need to lighten up. First off, I'm not racist. Second, check out any other posts of mine and you'll see that I try to find the humor in everything. I'm trying to unwind some tension with humor, and you want to try and stir things up again. Thanks, buddy.

posted by wingnut4life at 04:12 PM on March 02, 2006

Scottboro Nine? Any recent events-say in the last decade-similar to this? An example of racism (or "playing the race card") from the 1930's is irrelevant. Back then they WERE still burning crosses in front yards. I'm pretty sure the landscape of this nation has changed considerably since then.

posted by ksb122 at 04:12 PM on March 02, 2006

But did they yell "Wolverines!" first? Nope, these guys did.

posted by wingnut4life at 04:16 PM on March 02, 2006

i hate to say it, but white people never see racism in ANYTHING. i hate to say it, but black people always see racisim in EVERYTHING. If your thinking my repsonse is as ridiculous as the italicized quote, your right.

posted by panteeze at 04:19 PM on March 02, 2006

Scottboro Nine? Any recent events-say in the last decade-similar to this? An example of racism (or "playing the race card") from the 1930's is irrelevant. Back then they WERE still burning crosses in front yards. I'm pretty sure the landscape of this nation has changed considerably since then. Yes indeedy the landscape has changed. If we white we burn down the black churches in Bama, and if we black, we burn the hood in LA.

posted by irunfromclones at 04:21 PM on March 02, 2006

The prosecutor added that there wasn't enough evidence to charge the club manager over his alleged payment to the woman because "you can't convict a co-conspirator solely on the word of the other conspirator." That is certainly a true statement of the law regarding accomplice/conspirator testimony in Minnesota, as far as I know. Another witness, a victim, or some other corroborating evidence, then they would have a case. As per Minnesota Statutes section 634.04: "634.04 Uncorroborated evidence of accomplice. A conviction cannot be had upon the testimony of an accomplice, unless it is corroborated by such other evidence as tends to convict the defendant of the commission of the offense, and the corroboration is not sufficient if it merely shows the commission of the offense or the circumstances thereof. " The other section referenced in the article may be: "634.03 Confession, inadmissible when. A confession of the defendant shall not be sufficient to warrant conviction without evidence that the offense charged has been committed; nor can it be given in evidence against the defendant whether made in the course of judicial proceedings or to a private person, when made under the influence of fear produced by threats."

posted by chris2sy at 04:26 PM on March 02, 2006

Maybe some affirmative action to get fat chicks into Playboy. That's not necessary, the fat chicks have thier own mag. So do the old chics and pregnant chics. Just check my stepfather's closet.

posted by njsk8r20 at 04:27 PM on March 02, 2006

i hate to say it, but white people never see racism in ANYTHING. i hate to say it, but black people always see racisim in EVERYTHING. If your thinking my repsonse is as ridiculous as the italicized quote, your right. Just a few quotes from Andy Rooney on 60 minutes a few weeks ago: "I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens.. Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door." "When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of Probability." "I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa; so how can they be "African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and nowhere else. And if you don't like my point of view, tough."

posted by panteeze at 04:34 PM on March 02, 2006

"I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa; so how can they be "African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and nowhere else. And if you don't like my point of view, tough." One reason for that is that is history or lack therof. Blacks and Whites took 2 entirely different routes to America. As the slave ships arrived blacks were stripped of name title and identity and shipped to the far regions of the then united states.On top of that blacks were hanged tortured raped and beaten castrated decapitated and stoned for even attempting to read and write. the road to self indentity for AFRICAN AMERICANS is a long and hard one.When everyone is being synical and making jokes just remember were all Gods children and no matter your color or ethnic makeup we all end up the same way...worm food.

posted by adanitish at 04:56 PM on March 02, 2006

Except that "the history" keeps coming up whenever a certain segment of the population feels that it isn't getting the result it wants or feels it deserves. Certainly blacks were brought here as slaves, after being sold to the traders by other blacks. Certainly they were treated badly, but still better than the genocide waged on the natives.

posted by irunfromclones at 05:05 PM on March 02, 2006

I agree the natives had it was worse. Smallpox and Casinos is hardly just. Keep in mind theres alot of pent up frustration in the black community that slowly festers the as in the in the case of French muslims explodes. The reason for the miss black america the BET's and the Black Caucus is very simple. Creating a identity... something that can be regained from what was lost 200 years ago. White americans generally dont understand the importance of these things to set you apart and also bring you together. Sure we have the NAACP you have the US Government wanna trade?

posted by adanitish at 05:25 PM on March 02, 2006

You can have my government. I love my country, but my government scares me.

posted by wingnut4life at 05:33 PM on March 02, 2006

I'll just keep my piece of the casino action on tribal lands, thank you. The best revenge since scalping...

posted by irunfromclones at 05:36 PM on March 02, 2006

No matter what people say RACE always matters. My problem is white individuals (some not all) who are by nature cowards. And use this form to sprew their racist views. If you have any balls why don't you share your views with an African-American. By the way are you really upset because they make more money in a year then you will in a life time? Or are you upset because it seems that white women love black athletes?

posted by TYLAW#1FAN at 05:39 PM on March 02, 2006

This is a sports site, people. Bring it back to the Vikings and their claims of discrimination or go start PoorlyInformedRacialTiradeFilter.

posted by rcade at 05:40 PM on March 02, 2006

Yes indeedy the landscape has changed. If we white we burn down the black churches in Bama, and if we black, we burn the hood in LA. posted by irunfromclones at 4:21 PM CST on March 2 If this is concerning the recent fires only 2 of the churches were predominayly black. the other 8 white. All are Baptist churches, that is the common thread. You might be surprised that my little corner of the south doesn't see nearly the raceism other parts of the world do.

posted by Folkways at 05:48 PM on March 02, 2006

This is a sports site, people. Bring it back to the Vikings and their claims of discrimination or go start PoorlyInformedRacialTiradeFilter. rcade is right, we did get off on a tangent here. it's all daunte and moe's fault for being rich black athletes that white women love.

posted by irunfromclones at 05:59 PM on March 02, 2006

My problem is white individuals (some not all) who are by nature cowards. not like black individuals (some not all) who fire random shots into crowds from a moving vehicle. Sorry, couldn't help myself on that one. The point is, Daunte and Moe should have had better counsel, and not grasped at such a well worn straw. Their motion on this basis has become such a tired cliche that I seriously doubt they believe in it themselves.

posted by irunfromclones at 06:05 PM on March 02, 2006

Ty Law any place any time BOY gdritsas - i certainly hope you were discussing the Fresno State Football teams motto there.

posted by irunfromclones at 06:20 PM on March 02, 2006

This thread should never have been here, and I for one hope the admins delete it ASAP. It isn't like all of us hadn't already seen this story on CBS, Yahoo, ESPN, etc, etc. It may have served to show the community, that there are some low-life, disgusting racists among us, but that doesn't help me sleep at night. This made me sick to my stomach (emphasis mine): "... What a nice place this would be if we all worried about ourselve, found out we are not all equal and went on with our lives" --gdritsas

posted by scully at 06:23 PM on March 02, 2006

Ok so its setlled. Everyone has there different views and prejudice for whatever reason. This will continue until everyone slowly assimilates into a new race as is the nature of the world. or until mexicans outnumber EVERYONE and we celebrate the day of the dead as a national holiday. Dios Mio! ¡véale en el día de los muertos! As far as Daunte he doesnt represent me or anybody i know just as Hitler Stalin or Mussolini doesnt represents you. He made his bed let hime lay in it. Bein caught having orgies doesnt give you the right to play the race card. You have to look at the individual as well as the individual bein responsible for there own actions. interesting concept huh? I think as punishment they should take away his money and make hime move to Tennessee or Kentucky then he'll know what discrimination REALLY feels like. As for Moe they should give him the most sever punishment of all. Sign a long term deal with the NY Jets. But i guess that would be cruel and unusual punishment Go Cowboys!!!

posted by adanitish at 06:36 PM on March 02, 2006

There has to be over 50 post on this thread 99.1% have NOTHING to do with the title....I call for a complete deletion......It's sad to see how many incloset bigots SF has just sad...oh banhammer on gdritsas should never post here again.....

posted by Grrrlacher at 07:02 PM on March 02, 2006

Punk ain't no religious cult Punk means thinking for yourself You ain't hardcore cos you spike your hair When a jock still lives inside your head Nazi punks Nazi punks Nazi punks—Fuck Off! Nazi punks Nazi punks Nazi punks—Fuck Off! If you've come to fight, get outta here You ain't no better than the bouncers We ain't trying to be police When you are the cops it ain't anarchy Repeat chorus Ten guys jump one, what a man You fight each other, the police state wins Stab your backs when you trash our halls Trash a bank if you've got real balls You still think swastikas look cool The real nazis run your schools Teachers, businessmen and cops In a real fourth reich you'll be the first to go Repeat chorus You'll be the first to go You'll be the first to go You'll be the first to go Unless you think…

I'm with terrapin. Nuke this thread, and every ignorant motherfucker in it, from orbit.

posted by yerfatma at 07:04 PM on March 02, 2006

It really is embarassing. Every thread that touches race turns into crap. I don't think it has much to do with the sportsfilter membership as a whole as most of the comments are by members not seen in other threads. It's almost as if a certain segment of members wait for a thread such as this to make noise. I'm deleting the thread mainly, however, because this is not the place for the discussion. We don't do it well. And the actual topic of sports isn't even being addressed, despite the warning from rcade.

posted by justgary at 07:12 PM on March 02, 2006

what yerfatma and terrapin said. except don't nuke me, wingnut, or grum from orbit.

posted by irunfromclones at 07:13 PM on March 02, 2006

So, some professional football players allegedly misbehaved on a boat? Have I got that right?

posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:22 PM on March 02, 2006

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