11/21/24
March 24, 2006
U.S. thrown a curve; Cuba cries foul: Seems like silly posturing on both sides. If this was a condition of Cuba being allowed to/agreeing to play, they can hardly complain about it after the fact. However, the US should have realized this was a possibilty, and would only make them look bad after the fact.
I'd vote for stupid and silly posturing.
posted by fenriq at 11:11 PM on March 24, 2006
Someone's got their story all in a twist...though I don't go against the embargo...politics messed this up a bit...
posted by chemwizBsquared at 11:26 PM on March 24, 2006
Fidel knew he wouldn't get the money, so donates it to charity. (Great public relations ploy). Bush as usual welcomes the chance to make himself look like an ass and says no to the money. (doesn't think anyone is watching) . Fidel rides off looking again like a martyr and the US like assholes. *note* I try so hard to not get political
posted by doggstarr at 12:28 AM on March 25, 2006
Everything changes, BUT, nothing changes.The Dodgers are displaying their old habit of not hitting since it is getting close to opening day.
posted by Oledude at 01:24 AM on March 25, 2006
hoverbike and doggstar nail it.
posted by geekyguy at 02:47 AM on March 25, 2006
doggstar: Fidel knew he wouldn't get the money, so donates it to charity. (Great public relations ploy). He donates what to charity? Bush as usual welcomes the chance to make himself look like an ass and says no to the money. (doesn't think anyone is watching). WHAT MONEY? You're not making any sense at all. How was the President was supposed to accept money that wasn't awarded the Cubans? Think, McFly...think! Fidel rides off looking again like a martyr and the US like assholes. The only people who think Castro comes out ahead in this are people who either aren't smart enough to figure out a supposed "great public relations ploy" or people who are willing to suspend their sense of logic if it means they gain another reason to hate the President.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 03:40 AM on March 25, 2006
The only people who think Castro comes out ahead in this are people who either aren't smart enough to figure out a supposed "great public relations ploy" or people who are willing to suspend their sense of logic if it means they gain another reason to hate the President. Tell that to the Katrina victims with no home, good shelter, food and health care..... They are going to love the Government for this! Think they care about the Cuban embargo right now... they just know they're not getting any money which they anciously need.... Good move by Castro! It does make the US government look bad!
posted by zippinglou at 03:54 AM on March 25, 2006
He donates what to charity? ummmm Cubas prize money?? What Money? ummmm let me guess this one again ummm Cubas prize money? C'mon M.A.N. put the flag down and read the article. I never said he came out ahead , just that he was grandstanding and Baseball/US played right along. Oh yeah , I got your McFly and you can pull it down to get to my McDick * Second Note* This is why I don't get political
posted by doggstarr at 04:04 AM on March 25, 2006
Of course, you could have just gone back to the original WBC thread, and perhaps avoided the unfortunate "McFly - McDick" reference. Nice debate tool, that. With emphasis on "tool."
posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:48 AM on March 25, 2006
Cuba agreed to forfeit it's share of the winnings in order to play, so Castro is the one who looks like an ass because he wants to donate money that he knows he isn't getting. I guess the U.S. should have just said "Cuba has donated nothing to the Katrina victims, thank you Fidel!" :o)
posted by Steeler_Fan at 08:09 AM on March 25, 2006
You read the article and you think, "huh, Castro's either an arogant a-hole or a total boob for not paying attention to the agreement". THEN, you read the bottom part of the story and you find that there may not be any money for ANYONE. Costs and overruns. Hmmm, ever heard those terms used in a story involving the US of A? Wonder if there'd have been anything to divy if WE had won this sham...
posted by wolfdad at 08:30 AM on March 25, 2006
I got 3-1 odds on doggstarr....keep working the jab and follow up with an overhead right...
posted by Grrrlacher at 08:30 AM on March 25, 2006
Hey doggstar,Bush had nothing to do w/America breaking diplomatic ties w/Cuba!It was Kennedy!!!Please go to the library&check out a history book or 2???
posted by mdavidsf at 08:39 AM on March 25, 2006
who gives a fuck about fidel or bush. Its just a fuckin game, like all the other games and races. want to watch baseball go down to your local park and watch pee wees pure game no hype no bullshit except of course the coaches argueing with 16 year old umps making $10 a game but hell at least then they are not writing here
posted by kdrckrules at 09:03 AM on March 25, 2006
I'm getting tired of the gov. being blamed for all of Katrina. 1. the Govenor spend money earmarked for the levee repairs on her personal agenda (somewhere in the millions of dollars from ther Corp of Engineers).2. The Mayor didn't have enough backbone to complain more about getting the repairs done. 3. it turned out to be only a class 3 hurricane, not a 4 or 5 like predicted. I feel bad for those people and I love the city, but the blame starts at home with local gov. first.
posted by vetteman at 09:48 AM on March 25, 2006
New SpoFi Rule: Do not get into a political dog fight on a sports blog. Get a room.
posted by wingnut4life at 10:02 AM on March 25, 2006
Vetteman, If you could possible scroll to the top of the page you will see in white bold letters "SPORTSFILTER" comments related to sports, try to keep your politcal views to yourself and post comments related to the TOPIC....oh and by the way I blame katrina on cuba.....lol...
posted by Grrrlacher at 10:04 AM on March 25, 2006
Where did I say anything about Bush being the one to break ties with Cuba? *goes and gets a history book, sits down and reads, gets out my dictionary and looks up the word "ignorant",, looks up at the posts* Nah,, thats too easy
posted by doggstarr at 10:16 AM on March 25, 2006
me thinks Fidel's intentions were to donate "said" winnings to the CUBAN victims of Katrina, not the alabama, mississippi, louisianna coastal region
posted by Folkways at 10:18 AM on March 25, 2006
wingnut, that's beautiful.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:07 AM on March 25, 2006
PR Move! PR Move!
posted by Samsonov14 at 11:12 AM on March 25, 2006
L.N. Smithee, faux obtuseness is not an impressive debating position. It's the Internet-equivalent of throwing your hands in the air and running your voice up 10 octaves. If you seriously can't read between the lines to see doggstarr meant "Fidel offers to donate the money he knows he won't be getting . . . ", take some comprehension classes. Please, get a new move. It's like playing Mortal Kombat against someone who always uses the same character and only knows one combination.
posted by yerfatma at 11:49 AM on March 25, 2006
New SpoFi Rule: Do not get into a political dog fight on a sports blog. Get a room. But political discussions with STLCardinalFan used to be one of the highlights of SportsFilter... Of course, I think that any thread involving Cuba and the United States is bound to have politics thrown in there (as seen in my link). I'm wondering if Castro is doing this just to make the United States look bad as in, "yeah we tried to donate to Katrina victims but your country opposed us." However, if the terms of the agreement were as said, then Cuba has no right to complain. By the way wingnut, where is that sign located?
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 12:38 PM on March 25, 2006
Did Fidel give the katrina victims cigars? Just checking
posted by FozzFest at 12:40 PM on March 25, 2006
New SpoFi Rule: Do not get into a political dog fight on a sports blog. Get a room. Motel Politics
posted by roberts at 12:45 PM on March 25, 2006
Picture: http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h94/wingnut4life/ODDSnENDS/dead-horse.jpg Place: Dead Horse Summit -- Siskiyou County, CA 411212N lat. 1214607W long. I'm always searching for funny or ironic pix to spice up my comments...
posted by wingnut4life at 01:20 PM on March 25, 2006
Great job wingnut, glad to have you aboard. I'm still waiting for skydivedad to use the one he has waiting. I'm sure he'll wait till the time is right.
posted by njsk8r20 at 02:53 PM on March 25, 2006
Well, to be honest, this is a reasonably predictable result - a tournament that ran over-budget, a poorly structured format, a US team that faltered, a Cuban team that legally couldn't profit, and a big ol' pile of political dinosaurs. Makes perfect sense to me.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 04:21 PM on March 25, 2006
I know, but talking about what Bush or castro will do isn't sports either. I think the whole idea of a world baseball tournament was ridiculas to begin with.
posted by vetteman at 04:29 PM on March 25, 2006
I think the whole idea of a world baseball tournament was ridiculas to begin with. I'm glad to disagree!
posted by zippinglou at 10:47 PM on March 25, 2006
why cant Bush leave sports alone does he want to screw it up like everything else he does he cant even get his DTRS on the right tract
posted by papamaz at 05:09 AM on March 26, 2006
This is like watching a two car accident that vehicles keep slamming in to. Use your brakes.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:36 AM on March 26, 2006
First,Politics should stay out of this forum, read the title, Sports Filter. Second I feel it is better to be thought a fool, than to opens ones mouth, or keyboard in this case and remove all doubt. So people lets keep this forum on sports not politics.
posted by Gwvans at 01:20 PM on March 26, 2006
Agreeing to give away something you don't have. MMMMM, what's wrong with that picture.
posted by Tuna at 02:42 PM on March 26, 2006
yerfatma: If you seriously can't read between the lines to see doggstarr meant "Fidel offers to donate the money he knows he won't be getting . . . ", take some comprehension classes. Nonsense. I don't need comprehension classes to understand people who don't mean what they write. Those people need writing classes to write what they mean. If someone is going to write something s/he doesn't really mean, that's not my fault. It's not my job to consider the range of different things someone might really mean, and choose which one of those things to react to. I take full responsibility for being misinterpreted when I am not perfectly clear. So should doggstar or you or anybody else.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 09:26 AM on March 27, 2006
Are you seriousely bitching about someone not being clear enough after you right a sentence as confusing as this: How was the President was supposed to accept money that wasn't awarded the Cubans?
posted by tron7 at 10:28 AM on March 27, 2006
If someone is going to write something s/he doesn't really mean, that's not my fault. If you're going to literally interpert something when the implied meaning is easy to see, that is on you. It's like cryng wolf, sooner or later people will stop listening.
posted by yerfatma at 11:43 AM on March 27, 2006
tron7: Are you seriousely bitching about someone not being clear enough after you right a sentence as confusing as this: "How was the President was supposed to accept money that wasn't awarded the Cubans?" There's nothing confusing about that sentence. Maybe it would help if you didn't isolate that sentence, and instead put it in its proper context. What I wrote to doggstar was, in its entirety: ---------------------------------- WHAT MONEY? You're not making any sense at all. How was the President was supposed to accept money that wasn't awarded the Cubans? ---------------------------------- Note that doggstar's reply was as follows: ---------------------------------- ummmm let me guess this one again ummm Cubas prize money? ---------------------------------- ...which, as we know, is prize money the Cubans didn't, don't, and will never have to give. That makes no more sense than holding a press conference to say "I would have donated millions of dollars to disaster relief if I had won the lottery." No one with their wits about them would say, "What a nice guy!" or think of him as a "martyr." They would say, "What a lunatic!" This is why I disputed the notion this was some sort of "great public relations ploy." It would only work among people who are so stupid, they couldn't figure it out. Yet, doggstar and others find a way to imply the US government mishandled the situation, and that "Bush...as usual...[made] himself look like an ass" and made Americans look like "a**holes." If so, those are people who are too gullible to really matter. For all who believe that somehow this was some sort of PR loss for the USA, tell me what the official reaction to Castro's hollow donation offer would have been if it was your job to issue the reply. I'm really interested in knowing what difference you think you could have made. (Personal to doggstar: Sorry pal. I don't swing that way.)
posted by L.N. Smithee at 07:27 PM on March 27, 2006
Hooray for obtuseness! The answer to all future inquiries is, "Because there are no bones in ice cream."
posted by yerfatma at 08:49 PM on March 27, 2006
In the imortal words of Woody Guthrie... why oh why oh why oh why.... because because because... good bye good bye
posted by Folkways at 09:16 PM on March 27, 2006
For all who believe that somehow this was some sort of PR loss for the USA, tell me what the official reaction to Castro's hollow donation offer would have been if it was your job to issue the reply. I'm really interested in knowing what difference you think you could have made. "While Cuba was never actually going to receive any money from the tournament because due to the current embargo on Cuba and limitations therein, we are happy to take their portion of the prize money and donate it to the Katrina victims in the name of Major League Baseball, the Major League Baseball Players Union, and international players that participated in this wonderful inaugural event." The money gets donated, the people get some more help, Cuba gets stuffed, people are reminded of the embargo, baseball looks good, and because the reply was so long and windy, people only remember the last part (MLB/MLBP/internation players). Now really, was that so hard? You put that out right away (right after the tournament was completed) and you would have avoided all of that bad publicity.
posted by grum@work at 09:52 PM on March 27, 2006
grum@work: "While Cuba was never actually going to receive any money from the tournament because due to the current embargo on Cuba and limitations therein, we are happy to take their portion of the prize money and donate it to the Katrina victims in the name of Major League Baseball, the Major League Baseball Players Union, and international players that participated in this wonderful inaugural event." The money gets donated, the people get some more help, Cuba gets stuffed, people are reminded of the embargo, baseball looks good, and because the reply was so long and windy, people only remember the last part (MLB/MLBP/internation players). First of all, thanks for taking the challenge instead of replying with obscenities. That being said, I don't think donations should be made. Here's why: There isn't anyone who cares who wouldn't be able to say that Katrina relief wouldn't have happened without Castro's grandstanding. Allowing Cuba's participation in the tournament was a gift to baseball from the USA, and Castro knew the conditions under which his comrades had the chance to punk the USA right on its home soil. After that, permitting Castro to play the role of the tail wagging the dog is NOT an option. You may not realize it, but you have proved one of my points by saying "because the reply was so long and windy, people only remember the last part." Seems to me you are counting on the people who hear the message to not to be attentive enough -- or intelligent enough -- to realize Castro had nothing to give when he said he wanted to give it, which was the first part. Now really, was that so hard? You put that out right away (right after the tournament was completed) and you would have avoided all of that bad publicity. A Stalinist dictator who's sore after seeing his national team get beat in a baseball tournament for the first time in many years tries to fool people into thinking he's a humanitarian, and fails in the attempt. What bad publicity -- except for him?
posted by L.N. Smithee at 03:23 AM on March 28, 2006
(Personal to doggstar: Sorry pal. I don't swing that way.) If it was personal, why did you feel the need to grace this page with it? Just had to reinforce your "don't swing that way" street cred? If you hadn't responded to that particular insult/comment, I don't think that your masculinity would've been suspect among posters in this thread.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:27 AM on March 28, 2006
posted by wingnut4life at 06:37 AM on March 28, 2006
There isn't anyone who cares who wouldn't be able to say that Katrina relief wouldn't have happened without Castro's grandstanding. You seem to have missed the point where grum said he would have issued his statement right after the tournament ended, therefore preventing any grandstanding on Castro's part. A Stalinist dictator who's sore after seeing his national team get beat in a baseball tournament for the first time in many years tries to fool people into thinking he's a humanitarian, and fails in the attempt. What bad publicity -- except for him? If it's so clear, what are you debating here?
posted by qbert72 at 08:38 AM on March 28, 2006
That being said, I don't think donations should be made. So, let me get this straight. You would not donate the money to the Katrina relief fund because you wouldn't want to make Castro look good. Less help is given to American citizens in order to keep up the idea that Castro = evil. Somehow, you think that this is a good idea by the American government? What would you have the American government (or MLB, as I think it's their choice) do with the money?
posted by grum@work at 08:54 AM on March 28, 2006
The_Black_Hand: If it was personal, why did you feel the need to grace this page with it? Just had to reinforce your "don't swing that way" street cred? If you hadn't responded to that particular insult/comment, I don't think that your masculinity would've been suspect among posters in this thread. My "street cred" (is it possible to have that online?) had nothing to do with my response. I apologize if my response bothered you, but that is how I have reacted to that particular brainless insult since the first time it was said to me. Most of the time, men who thoughtlessly throw out a invitation of same-sex third base in lieu of a relevant retort don't think about the fact they are implying they are open to the idea. Reminding them that's what they've done makes them feel stupid. Which is how they should feel.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 01:16 PM on March 28, 2006
posted by wingnut4life at 02:15 PM on March 28, 2006
To wingnut4life: Uh oh! Someone is praying against me....OOPS! Still here. Bwahahahah! In the words of Wang Chung, start praying to a new god. Either that, or learn to disagree civilly. grum@work: So, let me get this straight. You would not donate the money to the Katrina relief fund because you wouldn't want to make Castro look good. There you go again with "the money" that won't be donated. Remember, there is no money for Castro to give. Any money that would go to Katrina relief would come from the U.S. taxpayers' coffers, because there is nothing for MLB to give. Less help is given to American citizens in order to keep up the idea that Castro = evil. "Less help?" There never was any help to be given because there never was and never will be any money! The WBC was never intended to be a charity event -- charity events, first and foremost, MAKE money, not LOSE it! It's easy to be generous with other people's money, since it isn't you who is spending it. I could very well suggest that you should donate half of your next paycheck to your local displaced Katrina victims, who are doubtless in your area code if you are in a metropolis. If you should balk at the idea that you should shell out cash just because I said so, are the victims out any money? Of course not! It was never theirs to begin with! Somehow, you think that this is a good idea by the American government? I like to think most observers can see through Castro's empty gesture. It's clear some people can't, and that other people think that the government should cater to those people. I respectfully disagree. And other thing -- here's a little thing you probably didn't realize: Castro has told his people that the ballplayers are actually getting the prize money, and that they are foregoing payment (since they have everything they need, thanks to the You-know-who) in favor of helping the "Katrina martyrs." From the website of Periodico26.cu, a Cuban newspaper newspaper allowed to publish in Cuba: __________________________________ Event regulations stipulate that of net profits to be distributed by the event organizers, the first place team receives nine percent while the runner-up gets seven percent. “We will hand over what we receive to the Katrina martyrs, whatever that amount may be, half a million or one, two, three or four million, without any reservations and with great satisfaction. This will only further increase our athletes’ morale,” the Cuban president said amid the clamor of applause from the 15,000 gathered in Havana’s Ciudad Deportiva Sports Arena. _____________________________ What would you have the American government (or MLB, as I think it's their choice) do with the money? I'm sure by now I don't have to tell you there's no money again, so I won't. You may want to post to a Cuban bulletin board to break the news to them. OOPS! They censor the internet in Cuba. Your message may not survive a reloading. My bad. BTW -- Castro's NOT evil?
posted by L.N. Smithee at 07:45 PM on March 28, 2006
Once more with feeling.... This is a Sports Blog, not a Political Blog. Jackass.
posted by wingnut4life at 08:25 PM on March 28, 2006
wingnut4life: This is a Sports Blog, not a Political Blog. Jackass. Talk to hoverbike. I didn't create this thread.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 08:46 PM on March 28, 2006
There you go again with "the money" that won't be donated. Remember, there is no money for Castro to give. Any money that would go to Katrina relief would come from the U.S. taxpayers' coffers, because there is nothing for MLB to give. "Cuba finished second in the 16-nation competition, and the runner-up was entitled to 7 percent of the tournament's profits. It's right in the damn article. Maybe the profits aren't that much (or zero, because of mismanagement), but the implication was that there would have been money if some other team had finished 2nd. However, Cuba finished 2nd, so the money that would have gone to any other team has been withheld. What does MLB/USA do with this money? "MLB would consider a donation to an as-yet-undetermined charitable or humanitarian cause, he said." So instead of just directly donating the money to a Katrina fund, MLB has decided to dick around a bit and give Castro some wonderful publicity. If, in fact, they do donate it to a Katrina fund, then Castro can claim "victory" as his wishes were still fulfilled. If MLB had simply stepped up right away (before the final game was played, or immediately afterwards) and said "The prize money that Cuba would normally have won (for finishing 1st or 2nd) is going to be donated to [insert charity here] instead.", then Castro wouldn't have had a chance to get his shot in.
posted by grum@work at 10:41 PM on March 28, 2006
There you go again with "the money" that won't be donated. Remember, there is no money for Castro to give. Any money that would go to Katrina relief would come from the U.S. taxpayers' coffers, because there is nothing for MLB to give. There you go again with the obtuseness. Per grum's comment above, there would have been money for any other second-place finisher. Your entire point rests on this Zen koan that because the money was not awarded to Cuba, it does not exist. And your second statement is simply incorrect; there's no rhetorical slickness for your to fall back on. Prize money for the second-place finisher is sitting some place. Why can't the current holder pass it onto a Katrina fund in Cuba's name? Or Kanye West's name? Or nobody's name, just get it there.
posted by yerfatma at 05:42 AM on March 29, 2006
yerfatma: Prize money for the second-place finisher is sitting some place. From the CNN article: ----------------------------- A Major League Baseball official said the deal that allowed Cuba to play in the tournament, which was reached in February with the U.S. State Department and agreed to by Cuba, made it "crystal clear" that Havana would not receive any share of the profits, even for charity. "Cuba doesn't have a cut of the proceeds of the tournament, and there is nothing for Cuba to donate," MLB spokesman Patrick Courtney said by telephone from New York. If there are any unassigned net revenues, MLB would consider a donation to an as-yet-undetermined charitable or humanitarian cause, he said. --------------------------- grum@work: If MLB had simply stepped up right away (before the final game was played, or immediately afterwards) and said "The prize money that Cuba would normally have won (for finishing 1st or 2nd) is going to be donated to [insert charity here] instead.", then Castro wouldn't have had a chance to get his shot in. Castro proposed the Katrina relief donation when the U.S. State Department initially said the Cuban team couldn't compete. That was back in December of last year.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 07:48 PM on March 29, 2006
If there are any unassigned net revenues Hey, thanks for making my point.
posted by yerfatma at 07:16 AM on March 30, 2006
Hey, I got this shiny new account, I figured I'd test it out (be gentle).