11/21/24
March 08, 2006
Father of former ASU player sues: ASU for not controlling his son? This is almost as stupid as that lady spilling coffee on herself and suing McDonalds because she got burned. The kid was college aged. He should be able to control whether or not he should go to a bar.
posted by Wrigley South to football at 10:41 AM - 52 comments
The suit is about a father suing ASU for not controlling one of their football players that shot and killed the man's son.
posted by bperk at 10:58 AM on March 08, 2006
It amazes me that everyone always brings up the McDonalds coffee case without knowing a single relevant detail about the case. Sure coffee is supposed to be hot, but 200 degrees? The coffee I make isn't nearly that hot.
posted by trox at 11:03 AM on March 08, 2006
Three women in five separate incidents had complained to the university, as well as Chandler and Scottsdale police, that Wade had threatened them in the weeks before the shooting. Future ASU students, that's the sound of a tuition hike.
posted by yerfatma at 11:03 AM on March 08, 2006
If the shooting happened on the campus, the lawsuit might have a chance, but since it happened outside of a nightclub I would guess that the case will be thrown out. May Wade find a new girlfriend in jail.
posted by njsk8r20 at 11:08 AM on March 08, 2006
"The suit is about a father suing ASU for not controlling one of their football players that shot and killed the man's son." Who was also a (former) ASU football player, so the story is a little confusing. Therefore, since I misread it, my reply should be amended to replace "25-year-olds" with "25- and 22-year-olds".
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:11 AM on March 08, 2006
I Don't Care How Hot Coffee Is, Or Who should have looked after whoever, these stupid ass lawsuits are a huge reason small business owners in this country Can't make a decent profit. Too busy Spending Money to Cover our asses to protect ourselves from people like this father and Mrs. Coffee Legs. I'm Sorry For the loss of your son, but don't go looking for a handout from an institution that needs that money to teach our children.
posted by Ultim8 at 11:12 AM on March 08, 2006
I don't know if the case would be thrown out just because it was off-campus. Given what is written about Wade's checkered past, there might be a case. You have to feel for this man, he just lost his son. Can you imagine the pain and anguish? This article made me grab up my six year old son and remind him how much I love him.
posted by wingnut4life at 11:16 AM on March 08, 2006
The coffee I make isn't nearly that hot. No matter how hot your coffee is Trox, I bet you know that it is hot and would burn you if you put it between your legs. Hot tea is HOT, Hot coffee is HOT. Iced tea is COLD. We all know it isn't going to feel good if dumped on ourselves. Cases like this should be thrown out. The Judge should tell these people to get a life, go home, and quit wasting his/her time. Maybe fine them for bringing something so stupid to court.
posted by dbt302 at 11:30 AM on March 08, 2006
A little misleading, this FPP is: Do you work for any of the national news desks? Still - that's awfully litigious of the father, but these lawyers aren't going to feed themselves on rational thought and a willingness to address proper responsiblity.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:34 AM on March 08, 2006
I think saying the father is looking for a handout is a bit unfair. Seems to me that he's just looking for the university to be accountable for Wade's actions but I'm not sure if he's got a case there. Either way the university/athletic department can't control all it's students/athletes, wether there have been complaints about them or not.
posted by smg at 11:38 AM on March 08, 2006
so from now if we leave it up to this dad we'll just go out and sue the university for everything that happens off campus,come on. people are sorry you lost a son but it's not the school's fault. it's almost like saying one of bill gates employees kills someone at a club so now we should sue bill gates, no one controls anyone, people make their own mistakes
posted by byrdman822 at 11:48 AM on March 08, 2006
Hey Trox. Whether it is 200 degrees ot lukewarm, I hope you are smart enough not to pour it on yourself.
posted by Wrigley South at 11:50 AM on March 08, 2006
This is the same as if my son and Trox's son would ever fight. Trox could see me for not controlling my son from beating up his son.
posted by steelcityguy at 12:05 PM on March 08, 2006
Before spouting off in ignorance about the McD's Coffiee Lawsuit, you should actually know the facts of the case. It was simply STUPID to be selling 190 degree coffee to drive through customers. Spills were inevitable. McDonald's coffee had been scalding people with third degree burns for years before this particular lawsuit, many of those burned got settlements from McDs up to the amount of $500,000.
posted by ursus_comiter at 12:09 PM on March 08, 2006
People who are ridiculing the McDonald's coffee case clearly haven't burned a single brain cell looking into the situation. As a result of her injuries, Ms. Liebeck spent eight days in a hospital. In that time she underwent expensive treatments for third-degree burns including debridement (removal of dead tissue) and skin grafting. The burns left her scarred and disabled for more than two years. Before a suit was ever filed, Liebeck informed McDonald’s about her injuries and asked for compensation for her medical bills, which totaled almost $11,000. McDonald’s countered with a ludicrously low $800 offer. The coffee was so ridiculously hot that the woman had to have dead tissue removed from her genital area. Tell me you wouldn't call an attorney if that happened to you.
posted by rcade at 12:15 PM on March 08, 2006
This comes up all the time, so here's a bit of short-hand: Is the US suffering from an overly-litiguous culture? Probably/ possibly. Is the McDonald's Hot Coffee mod law suit a good synchedoche for that problem? Not even close. McD's Hot Coffee Mod: Wherein Ronald McDonald and Grimace get busy if you punch in a special code.
posted by yerfatma at 12:40 PM on March 08, 2006
Ms. Liebeck placed the cup between her legs and removed the lid to add cream and sugar when the hot coffee spilled out on her lap causing third-degree She spilled it on herself. I think I just burned a brain cell or two.
posted by tselson at 12:42 PM on March 08, 2006
How many people in here put HOT coffee between their legs? It is common sense that you don't want to burn what is between your legs. Pull off to the side, add your cream and sugar, and then go on your merry way. The temp of the coffee isn't the problem. HOT is HOT. The common sense of this woman is the problem.
posted by dbt302 at 12:55 PM on March 08, 2006
They were selling scalding hot coffee in a drive thru knowing that a spill could result in serious harm. Spills happen, but they should not result in third-degree burns and permanent injury. I seriously doubt there are any regular coffee drinkers that have NEVER spilled coffee on themselves. As to this case, ASU has responsibility in that it has a disciplinary system that encourages people to report problems to campus police. If the campus authorities fail to act on multiple warnings that a student is dangerous, or even worse, if the school actively shields that student because he is an athlete, then that is certainly negligent.
posted by bperk at 01:01 PM on March 08, 2006
The temp of the coffee isn't the problem. HOT is HOT. The common sense of this woman is the problem. No, it's not. The problem is that you assume your understanding of the case is the correct one. The standard isn't "Would this cause a smart person to injure themselves", it's more like "Was the producer reckless in their behavior?" There's little value to serving coffee at that temperature, and almost none to the consumer. Do you normally assume any hot beverage you receive is capable of delivering third-degree burns?
posted by yerfatma at 01:02 PM on March 08, 2006
Student/Athlete...now there's an oximoron if there ever was one.
posted by joromu at 01:10 PM on March 08, 2006
In that case, if she had drank the coffee she would likely have suffered similar injuries to her mouth - makes the suit have more credibility. I agree that the McDonald's coffee suit is misunderstood to a large degree - and totally unrelated to this suit regardless.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:13 PM on March 08, 2006
these stupid ass lawsuits are a huge reason small business owners in this country Can't make a decent profit. Too busy Spending Money to Cover our asses to protect ourselves from people like this father and Mrs. Coffee Legs. I'm Sorry For the loss of your son, but don't go looking for a handout from an institution that needs that money to teach our children. So: (1) ASU and McDonald's are small businesses; and (2) colleges should never be sued as they are teaching children and need the money... Are you running for Congress this year or something? I was going to bitch about the coffee-case-backlash-bullshit, but it seems that others are already on hand to dish out the actual facts of the case. Besides, fuck that coffee, have you every been burned by the filling in one of those hot apple pies at McDonald's? Now that shit is hella-hot.
posted by chris2sy at 01:16 PM on March 08, 2006
The fathers anguish and sorrow is understandable. If universaties are willing to keep people with a history of violent acts on there programs for the sake of winning than they should have to pay up.
posted by kck54 at 01:25 PM on March 08, 2006
If the campus authorities fail to act on multiple warnings that a student is dangerous, or even worse, if the school actively shields that student because he is an athlete, then that is certainly negligent. You are certainly right there, but the three women who claim Wade threatened them are not the ones who were shot. Is campus security supposed to lock someone up in thier dorm room everytime somebody says they were threatened? And can we forgot about the f'n coffee?
posted by njsk8r20 at 01:28 PM on March 08, 2006
I am confused are we comparing Someone being KILLED to someone who got burned?
posted by StlFan at 01:30 PM on March 08, 2006
When is the school responsible for the behavior of a student athlete? Maybe the dead student's father's point is that some action should have been taken because there was some prior knowledge of potentially violent behavior.
posted by yzelda4045 at 01:44 PM on March 08, 2006
Hey I was sitting at a red light and a guy ran into me from behind and totalled my car. He is uninsured. He is also a fulltime scholarship student at the local college. I guess I'll sue the college for damages,
posted by scottypup at 02:00 PM on March 08, 2006
Wow, that's about as irrelevant as you can get. Great example: 1. The school has no prior knowledge of the student's driving behavior in your example. 2. Scholarship status makes no difference.
posted by yerfatma at 02:21 PM on March 08, 2006
Personally I hate lawsuits since often times there are stupid people, doing something stupid, and getting money for it (example: a Darwin award winner, the guy totals his RV after putting it on cruise control on the freeway and going back to make coffee). In this case, I really can't see how ASU can be responsible for this action. I think the father just wants some cash.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:43 PM on March 08, 2006
A grieving father is probably more concerned about accountability, explanation, apology, or change, than he would be about money. A lawsuit is pretty much the only avenue for getting something like that. It also is generally the quickest and most effective way to change corporate behavior.
posted by bperk at 02:56 PM on March 08, 2006
Have you seen some of the workers at McDonald's? They have no clue that coffee would seriously injure someone. When I get a hot beverage, I assume it is hot. Am I willing to be careful with it as to not hurt myself? Damn right I am. I may not know what the temp of the coffee is but I'm not going to do something as stupid as putting it between my legs to possibly find out either. That is just common sense. In the case, it says she was a passenger and her grandson was driving. Coffee just doesn't jump out of the cup on its own. What did the grandson do to make the coffee spill? Why isn't a 79 year old smart enough to know that hot coffee is HOT? If the coffee was cold, she would have bitched about that too. I agree with chris2sy, those hot apple pies are exactly that. HOT!!!
posted by dbt302 at 03:02 PM on March 08, 2006
It also is generally the quickest and most effective way to change corporate behavior. They always cry more when you hit them in the wallet, than they do when you hit them in the conscience.
posted by chris2sy at 03:08 PM on March 08, 2006
What did the grandson do to make the coffee spill? You have nothing to worry about Citizen. As long as you aren't doing anything wrong. example: a Darwin award winner, the guy totals his RV after putting it on cruise control on the freeway and going back to make coffee x things (depending on how many I get to): 1. The Darwin Awards celebrate people who died stupidly, not sued someone. 2. The Darwin Awards are slightly less reliable than a 14 year-old gossip who just did 10 rails of Pixie Stix© 3. If someone died in the back of their RV, how would anyone know he was making coffee? 4. What's the got to do with the legal system again?
posted by yerfatma at 03:11 PM on March 08, 2006
Just a couple of thoughts: 1) ASU President Michael Crow had ordered an internal investigation after Falkner’s death to assess whether the university should take new precautions to prevent violence and cope with violent students. The report released last fall said athletic department officials failed to notify other university officials and police about allegations of Wade’s behavioral problems because the university lacked a system for handling such situations. The report contained several recommendations, including setting up a special panel to advise the athletic director on when to pursue student sanctions and requiring student-athletes to attest to whether they have ever been convicted of a felony before joining a team or accepting a scholarship. The university has said it is working on making the improvements. From the East Valley Tribune, March 7, 2006 ASU obviously thinks that they need to have something in place for just this sort of situation. 2) This incident occured almost a year ago, so the 'grieving father' is perhaps overstating it a bit. I think I smell a rat in the woodpile on that score. and finally 3) Go here for complete facts regarding the McDonald's coffee case.
posted by elovrich at 03:40 PM on March 08, 2006
On topic: How did the Scottsdale and Chandler police break free from this suit? If you ask me, police departments that are alerted to violent behavior and leave a guy on the street are a lot more liable than university administrators who have absolutely no ability that I'm aware of to contain violent individuals (legally, at least). Slightly off-topic: So: (1) ASU and McDonald's are small businesses Swing and a miss. As a small business owner myself, I can tell you that the ridiculous number of frivolous lawsuits in this country -- many of which are settled even when the defending company is at absolutely no fault simply because the risk is greater than the reward in a fight -- naturally drive up the cost of insuring ALL companies from such lawsuits. And, because lawsuits happen all the time for all manner of reasons, it is borderline insane not to insure your company against them. That insurance premium cuts into your profit margin, and the burden is naturally harder on small businesses. Re: McDonalds -- it doesn't matter where the woman was keeping her coffee or how it was spilled. What if the spill didn't occur from her negligence, but from somebody else's? What if she was bumped on her way out the door and the coffee was dumped on her? It's a shame that this lawsuit has somehow become the poster child for lawsuit abuse, because it IS a real problem. This suit is more valid than most, but frivolous suits are clogging up the courts, preventing legitimate victims from getting timely compensation, and unnecessarily damaging corporations (for Reason One of many why you should care about this, see "insurance costs" above). The worst are class action suits in which thousands of plaintiffs get $5 coupons from the defending company in a settlement that nets the plaintiffs' counsel millions. Crazy, this legal system.
posted by BullpenPro at 03:40 PM on March 08, 2006
1. The Darwin Awards celebrate people who died stupidly, not sued someone. Sorry I messed up the source, I was looking at something else. He did not win a Darwin award and he did survive. I also have an inside tip that McDonald's, when asked for the decaf coffee that they do not usually have, put caffinated coffee in a decaf cup! Those allergic to caffine, beware.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 03:41 PM on March 08, 2006
I'm not really clear what ASU was supposed to do about this student. If there were allegations of threats from the three female students, and those threats were under investigation or already cleared, then the killer was not yet (legally) proven to be a danger. If those threats were proven to be true then I suppose the University should have turned the case over to the police and possibly expelled him. Or not, since the student might have sued them for violating due process. Anyway, other than for the short time until the police arrive, since when do universities keep students under (house) arrest?
posted by billsaysthis at 03:44 PM on March 08, 2006
ASU has to, at a minimum, report it to the proper authorities. This incident occured almost a year ago, so the 'grieving father' is perhaps overstating it a bit. It takes time to file a lawsuit. The lawyer has to due some research. You have to give the other party notice, then they have time to respond. A year is not a suspiciously long time.
posted by bperk at 04:01 PM on March 08, 2006
The suit was filed late in February of 2006, the shooting occured March 26 of 2005. I am not saying that the delay is suspicious, only that accrediting the father with being more concerned about accountability, explanation, apology, or change, than he would be about money is, perhaps, giving him undue credit for purely altruistic reasons for the law suit. Also, look at the defendants in the suit: the university, the state Board of Regents, Sun Devils football coach Dirk Koetter and former ASU athletic director Gene Smith (who is now at OSU).
posted by elovrich at 04:44 PM on March 08, 2006
One guy ate 5 pounds of cheese a day for 6 months. He was so constipated that he exploded. Can his daddy sue the cheese company?????
posted by joromu at 08:59 PM on March 08, 2006
One guy ate 5 pounds of cheese a day for 6 months. He was so constipated that he exploded. Can his daddy sue the cheese company????? I'd like to sue somebody for this thread.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:24 AM on March 09, 2006
Let's make it a class action suit. We'll get the guy from A Civil Action. On second thought, forget it. Who says the cobbler's children always go shoeless?
posted by yerfatma at 09:41 AM on March 09, 2006
Changed my post a little. We can't hold a university accountable for its students' actions. If we did, then it would never end. Soon enough we'd have people suing 30 years later because the school let some woman's husband go to bars as a freshman and led to his alcholism that made him an abusive spouse. And if someone starts learning subversive things at college, then should we sue the college for not censoring all writings that go through its doors? Yeah, both scenarios might sound really ridiculous...but then again, you know what else sounds ridiculous to me? A woman suing McDonald's because she can't hold a coffee cup between her legs.
posted by Masked at 11:58 AM on March 09, 2006
We'll get the guy from A Civil Action. On second thought, forget it. Who says the cobbler's children always go shoeless? Apparently Schlichtmann did not learn his lesson from that Woburn case. Good book though. Soon enough we'd have people suing 30 years later because the school let some woman's husband go to bars as a freshman and led to his alcholism that made him an abusive spouse. The statute of limitations would prevent such things from happening. Good luck proving the school's duty and the causation (like proximate cause, for example) there too.
posted by chris2sy at 02:08 PM on March 09, 2006
I'd like to sue somebody for this thread. I'll send a contribution for a lawyer, just tell me where to send the money.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:37 PM on March 09, 2006
Have you seen some of the workers at McDonald's? They have no clue that coffee would seriously injure someone. Did you read those articles? McDonald's DID know how hot their coffee was (too hot) and that it could injure someone (happened numerous times before) but still didn't want to lower the temperature of their coffee. The fact that some pimply-underage kid* is the one serving the coffee has no bearing on the corporate misdeeds. * I was one when I worked at McDonald's in the Metro Toronto Zoo back in 1986, so I'm allowed to make that comment.
posted by grum@work at 05:29 PM on March 09, 2006
*are there not child labor laws against one year olds working fast food?
posted by njsk8r20 at 05:57 PM on March 09, 2006
The McDonalds woman was an idiot to do what she did. To think that the University is reponsible for what an adult did off campus is as ridiculous. Both should get tossed so far out of court as the first bounce should occur in Maryland.
posted by Aggie1 at 09:25 PM on March 09, 2006
Wow. You've put everything in a new light.
posted by yerfatma at 06:55 AM on March 10, 2006
One thing that hasn't been mentioned (maybe I'm skimming the thread) is that Koetter dismissed Falkner -- a cannon fodder type player -- for traffic violations. In contrast, super-stalker Wade happened to have set the school's freshman rushing record and he was allowed to remain on the team. That seems a little more than a school, AD and coach merely asleep at the switch, unable to control their players. It looks like a program that sent the not-so-subtle message to Wade that you can do anything -- on the field or off, on-campus or off -- as long as your presence benefits the team. The school had a similar situation with a star player, Hakim Hill, who was given four chances (from sexual abuse to an in-locker room tantrum) before his presence was no longer necessary. It's sad to see Koetter say that he couldn't "connect the dots" on Wade, but he had no problem doing so with Falkner, a special teams player who apparently went too far by being arrested for driving with a suspended license. No wonder Wade felt free to pack heat.
posted by jackhererra at 10:08 AM on March 12, 2006
Yeah, 25-year-olds need babysitters. Sheesh.