June 03, 2006

Anybody want to buy a set of used irons and never used fairway woods? I wish her all the luck in the world. It would be great to watch her in a major like that. It is going to be fun to watch her over the next 30 years.

posted by seansterps at 05:56 PM on June 03, 2006

wie this young girl has not even earned the right to compete ...um, dlwebb, ANYONE can enter the US OPEN, there is no earning a right to compete in the National Championship. Just be a professional golfer who can come within ten shots of the course rating, or an amateur golfer with a 2.4 hdcp index or less. The US Open regularly attracts over 6000 entries per year, and most of those entries never get ANY press. Mine never did, and yes, I entered several times, as an amateur. The great thing about an OPEN golf tournament is, it IS open to most anyone, most are gender non-specific. Joanne Carner attempted to qualify several years ago (if I remember), but she was much less of a promotional horse than Michelles' handlers are. Lets remember that this is most about press and money, at least in my opinion. Wie got millions to trun pro and get endorsements from SONY, etc. She also commanded $750,00 to tee it up in the Korean event a few weeks ago. Her handlers are doing a great job of keeping her name in the press.

posted by Leominster at 06:39 PM on June 03, 2006

sorry, got in 2 seconds late.

posted by 1971jlb at 06:47 PM on June 03, 2006

I hope that Wie or any other female golfer wins on the men's tour. I hope that they someday will play at Augusta and win there. Then they can tell Hootie Johnson, and all the other bozos who are still living in the 15th Century, to shove their drivers up their collective a$$e$, SIDEWAYS.

posted by joromu at 08:42 PM on June 03, 2006

This girl has not earned anything! PERIOD! What has she done? What has she won? I for one am sick and damn tired of hearing about her. On the LPGA Tour, there are many better and more exciting players than Wie. Not only Wie, but having any woman play a PGA event is a crock of shit!

posted by FtheRedSux at 10:27 PM on June 03, 2006

What has she won? Well, since you asked, and because I'm sick up to my back teeth of people whining about it without doing even a cursory check of her accomplishments:

• She was the youngest-ever winner (yes, winner) of a non-junior USGA event (the Amateur Public Links Tournament), and the youngest ever to be named to a national team (Curtis Cup '04, so someone in the golf world thinks she's got talent).
• In 2005, while still an amateur, she finished second in two tournaments, including the LPGA Championship (one of the major tournaments; how many "successful" pros have ever done that well? Ever?). She followed that up with a string of top tens, and finished tied for third in another major, the British Open. Had she been a professional, her earnings would have placed her eighth on the money list. At 15 years old.
• She has been as high as third on the LPGA Women's Golf ranking points list. Third in the world. Again, how many "successful" golfers, of any age, ever did that well?
• Last month, she became the first woman (of any age) to ever win (win!) a men's US Open qualifying tournament.
• And she holds the record for the lowest round by a female in a PGA Tour event (She's shot 68 twice, at the 2004 & 2006 Sony Open).

posted by chicobangs at 10:52 PM on June 03, 2006

AMEN grum.

posted by ctal1999 at 11:17 PM on June 03, 2006

chicobangs: I'm sick up to my back teeth of people whining about it without doing even a cursory check of her accomplishments: * She was the youngest-ever winner (yes, winner) of a non-junior USGA event (the Amateur Public Links Tournament), and the youngest ever to be named to a national team (Curtis Cup '04, so someone in the golf world thinks she's got talent). Well, I HAVE checked them, and you left out a couple of important details: The USGA event she won was when she was 13. She's been playing mostly world class competition since then, and had won nothing before the sectional that has gotten her to the qualifier -- and she won that by shooting even par.

posted by L.N. Smithee at 11:35 PM on June 03, 2006

While I agree that Wie is criticized too much, I think some people that defend her are too willing to give her a free pass because she is still young. She's making a lot of money and getting a lot of press when there are more polished and successful golfers on both the men's and women's tours. That's not her fault, directly. But she or her parents or handlers -- someone is getting rich from all this. If nine years from now she is a recovering drug addict who has fallen off the map, I'll feel bad for her. But right now, while she's on top of the mountain, she's getting what she deserves. Take that any way you want.

posted by forrestv at 12:01 AM on June 04, 2006

Leominster: Lets remember that this is most about press and money, at least in my opinion. Wie got millions to trun pro and get endorsements from SONY, etc....Her handlers are doing a great job of keeping her name in the press. I agree. Thanks for getting it.

posted by L.N. Smithee at 12:22 AM on June 04, 2006

I think almost everybody is missing the point here (and I said almost, a few of you get it). All Wie needed to enter the U.S. Open was a handicap index of 2.4 and the entry fee. That's it. She had it, she entered (like any of us could have done with the entry fee and the qualifying handicap), and she has advanced this far because she scored low enough to advance. No gimmees, no hand-outs, just her play scored against the others who were competing against her. Nobody gave her an exemption to this, she's earned her spot. And if she finishes in the top 18 on Monday she will have EARNED her spot in the U.S. Open. There is absolutely no arguing that point, no matter what you think of all the other stuff that she's done. For this one tournament she has done it exactly right, so why fault that? And remember to all the Michelle Wie doubters out there, I remember when Tiger Woods first came out as a pro and everybody was pissed he was making a bunch of money (the chirping from the other pros was brutal). He kind of lived up to the hype, didn't he? Give Wie a chance to prove herself like Tiger did. And yeah, Tiger destroyed the amateur ranks before turning pro but that wasn't Wie and her family's choice. If 10 years from now Wie hasn't won hardly anything then maybe it was a mistake, but let's give her an honest chance to live up to the hype. Personally, a girl her age that whacks 300 yard drives and plays like her is astounding. I think when she does play on the LPGA Tour she'll absolutely dominate in a few years (if not sooner). And if the sponsors want to give her exemptions to some PGA Tour events, then that is THEIR choice. They want to make money and Wie is a big-time draw for spectators, sponsors and the TV people. And could you imagine if she makes the cut and actually is in contention on Sunday in a men's event? The ratings would go through the roof.

posted by donnnnychris at 12:39 AM on June 04, 2006

He kind of lived up to the hype, didn't he? The Irony (I might be using that word with some poetic license) of the Tiger comparison is that people are still dumbfoundingly critical of Tiger. When he fell to number two in the rankings a year or two back here, everyone said "slump this," and "slump that" (I quoted those possibly a bit liberally as well...). WTF???? The guy spends a couple of months as the second best player in the world, and he's in a slump???? I think Michelle Wie is going to fight the same demons her whole career. Expectations are so damn high for her, unless she comes in first every tourney people are going to be like "This girl has not earned anything!." It's a sad outlook, but there it is none the less.

posted by everett at 02:12 AM on June 04, 2006

I think Michelle Wie is going to fight the same demons her whole career. So true everett, so true.

posted by donnnnychris at 02:21 AM on June 04, 2006

everett: Smithee, I don't get your point. Its the US Open! If you can go, you go, no matter what's in between your legs, or what year you were born, right? I didn't write anything about the US Open, which she has a perfect right to qualify for, DID I? No results? at sixteen she's one of the top five womens players in the world... Top FIVE? One word, two syllables: Non sense. You've fallen for the hype. Fuckin-A she's worthy of the attention, if you don't like it don't pay attention, or better yet GYOFB with your 500 word essay comments. If you don't like my 500 word essay comments, don't pay attention to them!

posted by L.N. Smithee at 02:45 AM on June 04, 2006

Re: "The thing to remember about all of this is that Michelle is 16 years old!!! The mere thought of any golfer, male or female, qualifying in today's ultra-competitive environment for the men's U.S. Open at that age is mind-boggling." This story is tired. Count me excited when she actually wins a LPGA event. It's hardly a big deal that she's 16 years old -- many female athletes peak early, whether they be tennis players or gymnasts or figure skaters -- and the physical levels of athletic dexterity required to perform those sports are considerably higher than hitting a prone ball off a tee. If Wie can win a PGA event maybe my mind will be boggled by this story, but right now it's a bore and a snore.

posted by the red terror at 09:25 AM on June 04, 2006

We all laugh at guys like Freddie Mitchell, who mouthed off as if he was as good as Terrell Owens after having one great playoff game, but everyone is so careful not to be critical of a teenage girl who thinks she's good enough to beat men even though she's failed to beat women. Why? Well, Freddie Mitchell goes out and makes those statements, whereas Michelle Wie lets people on a messageboard put those words in her mouth. Where has Michelle ever made a statement that inflammatory? Every single interview I've ever seen of her, she's humble and graceful. She has none of the qualities you're implying she has. As well, could it not be people like you who look at the LPGA tour as a lesser tour (insomuch that you seem to believe she should have to win there to earn the right to play with the men) who might help push her towards the PGA tour? If you're a professional athlete who trusts your talents, wouldn't you want to play with the best, not just the best of your gender?

posted by dfleming at 09:48 AM on June 04, 2006

I don't really care if Wie tries qualifying for the U.S. Open. If you're allowed to try, it doesn't matter who you are, you should still have that shot. However, if her best round is a 68 playing with dudes, unless the men royally screw up, there isn't much of a shot that she'll make it. Plus, I'm kinda tired of the hype this girl gets. Blast at me all you people want, but I ain't gonna get excited over her until she finally wins a tournament.

posted by shadyboy15 at 10:42 AM on June 04, 2006

Smithee, I love it. You're a great contrarian blowhard. This is where Wie belongs: On the LPGA tour fighting it out at the top of the leaderboard, not struggling to make the cut against men. When she starts winning, then talk should begin about her earning her way onto the PGA tees. But not before. Sorry, my friend - you don't get to tell people where they belong. Not in an Open format. Hey - rules are rules (I know you respect the rules). So far, Wie has yet to prove she can. She's all talk, no results, and yet she's still being shoved in our faces constantly. You are the very epitome of truthiness. At the age of 15 she had come in the top five in two LPGA majors. Not worthy of even a mention in your misguided diatribe? In a limited number of events last year her earnings would have put her in 8th place. At the age of 16. But again, no indication of this being even remotely exceptional? (Which it obviously is.) No of this is remotely impressive to you, for some reason. Is it because it has to be a win? No win = no respect? Sorry - wrong game. Frankly I think you react like this because you're pissed that she's a media darling - which for some reason makes her a fraud. Do you even like golf? Do you even watch it? All I ever see you do around here is find a topic and bitch; picking those facts that seem to support your theory and casually ignoring the rest. Just because the media has decided to over-hype the girl doesn't mean she's not exceptional. And if you even gave a cursory examination of her game (length especially), you'd reallize that she's the most obvious example of a woman who's game could cross over. You are a poor scientist, Dr. Venkman.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:20 AM on June 04, 2006

TRT, you point out that women mature earlier than men. True, but not overly valid unless you're comparing 16 year old Wie to 16 year old Woods. Girls go through puberty earlier, which is why you sometimes see 8th graders looking like their ready for the pages of Playboy, but by the late teens, it's usually evened out for the most part. Are you really going to try to claim that among the athletes in a given senior class, the girls are far more developed than the guys? With the exception of gymnastics (where you can only have a long career if you're genetic make up makes you 5 foot nothing and 80 some pounds naturally), female athletes aren't near their best in their mid teens. Chris Everrett was great at 16, but she was better at 21. When was the last time you saw a 16 year old sprinter win a world class event? I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but most of them are in college or older. If it did happen, you can bet the girl who's winning at 16 will be even better (barring injury) after a couple more years. This is true of sport after sport. There may be girls who nudge their way into the elite ranks at 15, but they aren't at their peaks until years later.

posted by ctal1999 at 11:57 AM on June 04, 2006

Miss Wie is recieving very bad advise. She would be wise to compete on the LPGA. She would do very well there. People like her that is always trying to prove a point, usally winds up hurting their career. She will not come close to qualifying for the open. NUFF SAId. Grampsw

posted by grampsw at 04:32 PM on June 04, 2006

Just sayin'.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:02 PM on June 04, 2006

Look here & here for more idiotic opinions of Michelle Wie and her game. She's a kid, for crying out loud. Name another child her age who brings more to the table with her abilities, critics.

posted by mjkredliner at 05:48 PM on June 04, 2006

The Red Terror, I was talking about in the history of golf. I wasn't talking about any other sports. Just golf. Ok, do we have that down now? Now that we understand what sport we're talking about, name one other player who almost won an LPGA major tournament at the age of 14. There is none, period. And ctal1999, you are absolutely right. Female athletes do tend to develop sooner but most of them are much better (with the exception of gymnastics) when they get into the college years (18 to 22 years old). For a girl to perform at the level Michelle Wie has from 14 years old to 16 years old is amazing. And kyrilmitch_76, I couldn't have said it better myself. Having been a lifelong golfer who's lowest score ever was an 82, I can appreciate Wie's talents even more. What she is doing is unreal.

posted by donnnnychris at 08:01 PM on June 04, 2006

mjkredliner I agree that Wie is talented and should be able to play wherever she wants. But "knocking down walls?" Are you seriously putting her in the same category as Billy Jean King? Because I can't think of any other walls unless you are referring to her age. If it's age you're talking about, how can you so easily dismiss Adu? Let's not forget that when he was 13, MLS coaches were comparing him to Pele (who played in his first World Cup when he was 17.) They were saying that at his age, he was the most talented soccer player ever seen. The difference between him and Wie is that his mother took a different route than Wie's parents and kept him from going worldwide in order to protect him. Wie's didn't. And, yeah, he might not be a starter, but as you so eloquently pointed it in one of those links you posted, "...there is triumph in just having enough game to be invited at that age."

posted by forrestv at 12:05 AM on June 05, 2006

(including the Evian Masters, which happened to be the SECOND career LPGA victory for then-EIGHTEEN-year old rookie Paula Creamer, not that anybody noticed...note the ESPN headline). Perhaps you should have read this article instead of just the headline. The article is about Paula Creamer, and only mentions Wie. Get off this girls back, she is going to try to qualify for an OPEN, that means anyone can enter. You keep bitching saying she needs to get better, one way to do that is compete against better players than yourself.

posted by jojomfd1 at 02:51 AM on June 05, 2006

jojomfd1: Perhaps you should have read this article instead of just the headline. The article is about Paula Creamer, and only mentions Wie. No, ESPN mentioned Wie in the headline of an AP story and didn't mention the name of the player who beat her by eight strokes. That's why I wrote "note the ESPN headline" and not "note the ESPN story," Sherlock. You keep bitching saying she needs to get better, one way to do that is compete against better players than yourself. She's not better than Annika Sorenstam, she's not better than Lorena Ochoa, she's not better than Cristie Kerr, she's not better than Paula Creamer, she's not better than Karrie Webb. 'Oh, but she hits it 300 yards!' Whoop-de-do. If long drives were everything, John Daly would be more famous than Tiger Woods. And quit with the "she's only 16" schtuff -- if it doesn't make any diff whether she's XX or XY, it doesn't matter if she's 16 or 61. She ain't there yet. Clearly, Wie isn't far behind the best ladies (as I have said time and time again, only to be ignored by people whose eyes glaze over at a post with more than one paragraph). But rather than concentrate on going up against other LPGA stars she has a chance of victory against, she'd rather try to beat out David Duval halfway down a PGA leaderboard. That's newsworthy?

posted by L.N. Smithee at 03:25 AM on June 05, 2006

YOUNGEST TO EVER 1.Win The U.S Public Links Championship,male or female, which is an adult, sanctioned USGA event,(and, if you follow amateur golf, you might realize that the best amateurs in the country usually play this event) Fuckin' remarkable. 2. Play a PGA tour event, male or female. (Age 14) (She shot even par in her first round against the men, do you know how many MALE pros don't accomplish that? Very fuckin' remarkable. 3. Qualify for an ADULT sanctioned USGA event, male or female. 2000 Public Links Championship.(age 10 ) Fuckin' remarkable. 4. Qualify for an LPGA event. (Age 12) Again, fuckin' remarkable. 5. Make a cut in a LPGA Major Championship. (Age 13) (She didn't just make the cut, she finished T9th ad was in the hunt for a stretch) Very fuckin' remarkable. 6. Play in the Curtis Cup. Only mildly fuckin' remarkable. 7. Female to make the cut in an Asian PGA Tour sanctioned event, which also made her the youngest female to ever make the cut in a professional male event.(age 16) Very fuckin' remarkable. In addition, she was the FIRST female medalist in a U.S Open Mens qualifying tournament, just recently!(Age 16) Goddamn remarkable. She finished in the top 10 of the LPGA money list last year PLAYING PART TIME! If she was competing against "children of her own age", it would not be that big a deal, but she is playing on the biggest stages available to her, against the best competition she can drum up, and, when she is competing against her gender, she can more than hold her own. Perhaps I downplayed Mr. Adu's talents, but then again, how many links have you seen posted about him? When a certain Mr. Eldrick Woods was her age, his resume`was not near as impressive as Miss Wie's is. Look at her record in womens major championships: 6 top 10's in 9 starts, never missing a cut. If you consider yourself any kind of knowledgable golf fan, if you know anything about the pressure she has played under, then surely you realize how FUCKIN' REMARKABLE her accomplishments are.

posted by mjkredliner at 04:02 AM on June 05, 2006

Redliner, one of the reasons you don't see links to Adu is that soccer has never been fully embraced by the U.S. press or the public at large. Just because you don't see links about Adu doesn't mean he isn't important. And just because Wie is in the news all the time doesn't mean she deserves to be there. She seems like a nice kid...and that's why it's hard to take her seriously. The teddy bear backpacks she wears don't help me believe she's got the eye of the tiger. Or that she wants to destroy her opponents the way Tiger Woods or Vijay Singh want. To her, second place doesn't suck...yet. For now, though, she's a media driven story. I don't know of many newspapers that, if they found out she was in town, wouldn't send out a reporter to write a story about her. But if I were the reporter they sent out, I'd feel like I was writing a fluff piece. Of course, the teddy bear backpack might have something to do with that.

posted by forrestv at 05:20 AM on June 05, 2006

Yes I realized that to late to correct, JJ, ty for pointing it out, I was in a fizz, so to speak. I am not saying she is the greatest golfer on the planet, I am just tired (and not the only one, apparently,) of some of the ridiiculous statements that always ensue whenever a Wie post is added. And no, I don't believe she has been handled properly, but it is to her credit that she has done as well as she has, under the circumstances. If you get the chance to see her post round interviews, you will see, that she is very much a kid. And she has performed quite well, despite having to perform under pretty tough conditions.

posted by mjkredliner at 06:53 AM on June 05, 2006

FtheRedSox? Wow, that takes me back to junior high school. It's like calling someone an a-hole. As nicks go, it's very nearly as stupid as "redsoxrgay". OK, Grum...you are missing the point! You would look really cute in a skirt at my daughters next Brownie Scout meeting. You'd look really cute with a nick that doesn't make you look like an inbred knuckledragger. Just sayin'.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:00 AM on June 05, 2006

As long as her tee off time is after 2pm, since she's a female.

posted by JIM W. at 09:09 AM on June 05, 2006

Ah - you people are dinosaurs. Always putting limits on what people should and should not attempt. Sporting limits and boundaries are, and have always been, the ones that the greats break down. Wie is an exceptional talent. A rare talent. If you can't see that, than I have to suggest that you're not paying attention. Her accomplishments speak for themselves. Smithee - why does she have to win on the LPGA before she should be granted your approval to play on the PGA? What's the relationship? And why do you care? There are no rules suggesting this has to be the way. (Appropo - Gretzky didn't win a WHA scoring title before he won and NHL one.) And as per your last comment directed to me - you suggest she has "acquitted herself well" which is an interesting way to describe a 16-year old finishing in the top five in two LPGA Majors. Frankly, it's a loaded understatement. It's not telling the whole story. Purposefully. You're dimishing her accomplishments to make your position seem more tenable. You do this a lot. Perhaps I have been reading your comments wrong. Perhaps your's has been an exercise in calling out the media for over-hyping the girl. This is true - she has been over-hyped. But so what? That means she's not worthy of the coverage, not necessarily means she's not worthy of attempting to qualify for the Open. So then - what's your point? My point is clear - Wie has shown the talent and game to qualify and play against the men. Her track record, though it contains no LPGS wins, is exceptional when considered against history and her game is one which best translates to the PGA tour. Given her age and talent level - she is entitled to give it a shot without so many thinly-veiled mysogonists telling her that she hasn't 'earned' it yet. Last question: Smithee - should women be allowed to play on the PGA? I want to know where you really stand.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:32 AM on June 05, 2006

Cabbie, I know the crystal ball gag was supposed to be humorous, but a hundred years ago, a lot of people believed in crystal balls. Of course, it was a load of crap...just like you last post. People said the same kind of bilge about Woods. They were full of it and, though only time will tell for sure, I have a feeling that you are , too.

posted by ctal1999 at 10:30 AM on June 05, 2006

As I type this, Michelle Wie is 1 under par through 12 holes of the qualifier. I don't have the info on the rest of the field, but I am pleased to see that she's doing well.

posted by Scottymac at 11:06 AM on June 05, 2006

Scores here. If she picks up one shot on the back nine, she has a slim chance of making a playoff. Two shots and she almost certainly would get in a playoff. Three shots and she'd get in outright. I reckon.

posted by JJ at 11:19 AM on June 05, 2006

I'm slightly confused by the format - are they taking 9 from each course (North and South)? Or just the top 18 regardless of where you play?

posted by JJ at 11:24 AM on June 05, 2006

I think I'm being dense - it's 36 holes, isn't it?

posted by JJ at 11:29 AM on June 05, 2006

** Bulletin: She's in the clubhouse with a 2 under par 68. Last info ESPN has is that the leader is at 4 under. She might make it.

posted by chicobangs at 12:26 PM on June 05, 2006

** Bulletin: She's in the clubhouse with a 2 under par 68. Last info ESPN has is that the leader is at 4 under. I don't follow golf that closely, does she have to win to get in?

posted by tron7 at 12:33 PM on June 05, 2006

Are we talking about soccer now? I'm so confused!

posted by irunfromclones at 01:30 PM on June 05, 2006

Her putter failed her I read, but man, this is a tough event to qualify for. Every year there are a ton of journeymen pros and those on the outer fringe of qualifying that are forced to go this route, and most receive a free pass through the first round of local qualifying. I myself wonder why she tried to qualify in N.J., when there was a Hawaiian sectional event (probably because only one person advanced from there, would be my guess.) At least she gave it a shot and went down fighting. And, she was more than competent, naysayers.

posted by mjkredliner at 05:26 PM on June 05, 2006

She faded in the end and her putter didn't show up, but even so, she's still gonna finish ahead of Billy Andrade and Mark O'Meara. Actually, they are both currently ahead of her.

posted by grum@work at 05:51 PM on June 05, 2006

JJ, looks like everyone played both courses (18 on the North, 18 on the South). I think that's what you were asking. As for what happened to Wie today there's no discounting two things. First, with 18 spots available the NJ location is the second most difficult (Columbus OH had 21 spots available...size and quality of field determine), so she played in a quality field and was in a great position through 27 holes. Second, they shut the gates down because too many people showed up to watch. This is a USGA qualifying event, go find out how many people went to the other locations today.

posted by YukonGold at 07:24 PM on June 05, 2006

I don't know that they are Wie haters, but their opinions are boorish. I've said it before: When this kid learns to win, ( I think her playing against such stiff competition since such a young age has not helped in this regard) she may be capable of great things.

posted by mjkredliner at 07:59 AM on June 06, 2006

Good point about the level of competition she's facing, MJK. Remember, when she first started raising eyebrows, there were those in the LPGA who grumbled that she should be worrying about helping her high school team win championships, not about playing pro events. Just because she oftens chooses to play against those who are presently better players doesn't change the fact that her abilities are awe inspiring for a girl of 16!

posted by ctal1999 at 10:40 AM on June 06, 2006

Dudes, from my perspective, it has nothing to do with "Wie haters." That is a lame cop-out. I have no problem with Wie. I do, however, have a low tolerance for hype that gets repeatedly shoved under my nose. It is not "hatred" to point out the obvious. Wie hasn't won anything. Her skill-set and age are, as another poster said earlier, "remarkable. " But it is over-gilding the lily to define her "almost won" accomplishments as "mind-boggling." Ernest Shackleton "almost making the South Pole" and then turning back and rescuing his entire crew after months of dangerous travail and isolation -- that's mind-boggling. Michelle Wie missing a cut in a mens event -- again -- that's not mind-boggling. Wie should be entitled to enter "Open" events. I'm all in favour of that. But I'll save the "mind-boggling" descriptives and appelations for when she wins the thing, not when she "almost" qualifies. It seems to me that Wie has great agents and publicists. They are making the girl and her family a great deal of money. But her age -- again -- seems a total non-story to me. She's a female athlete who excells in her teens. Is that really a big deal? Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, Martina Hingis, Maria Sharapova all won MAJOR titles in their teens in their respective sport. Wie still hasn't won a title in any LPGA event, let alone a major. Yeah, the girl's got game. But she's got more hype than game. And that's what the so-called "haters" -- like me -- are tired and bored by, the hype. Let the girl play her game. But the spoils should go to victors, not millionaire endorsement billboards that haven't won anything yet. Jeebuz, on American sports radio stations last night, they were playing Wie's failure to *qualify* for the U.S. Open bigger than the first game of the Stanley Cup. That's a pathetic joke.

posted by the red terror at 10:59 AM on June 06, 2006

Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, Martina Hingis, Maria Sharapova all won MAJOR titles in their teens in their respective sport. I take your larger point, but tennis != golf. As your example shows, tennis has plenty of teen champs. Golf does not (that I know of).

posted by yerfatma at 11:22 AM on June 06, 2006

Part of the problem is the game of golf. It's not like a lot of other sports where you spend a higher percentage of your time training than competing. In golf, it's almost exclusively competition (plus warm up, warm down and the occasional panic on the range with your coach if something is going wrong). As a result, narrowly failing to win isn't as big a disaster as it would be for (say) an Olympic athlete. As the latter, you have four years to wait before you can try to win again - as a golfer, the longest you would have to wait to have another go at any title would be two years for a Ryder or Solheim Cup - but really, you're back on the horse the very next week. The other problem with the game is that a reasonably talented amateur having the best day of his or her life could beat Tiger Woods on his worst day - that doesn't really exist in other sports. I suppose what I'm driving at is that while it may feel to someone watching that Wie is banging her head off a brick wall playing with the men, there's obviously enough going on out there for her that she feels justified in continuing to try. From what I've read, she missed quite a few putts yesterday - if they had all gone in, we would have woken up to different headlines. For what it's worth, I think she is right to always play in the best quality tournament she can get an invite for - but maybe only because when I was growing up, I lost count of the number of times I was told that you can only get better by playing against people who are better than you. Fair enough, a lot of the LPGA players are better than Wie too, but that's not the point. I'd use an example from my youth (and then go and gmob). One of the four provincial Irish amateur championships clashed every year with the British Amateur. Another clashed with Open qualifying. I could see the logic, but never understand the emotion of the few players who had a low enough handicap to be able to chose which events they played. Very few ever chose to play in the British Amateur or the Open qualifying, preferring instead to play for ranking points in the Irish events that might get them on the national team (there were points to be gained from doing well in the Amateur and the Open obviously, but they had much better fields). Off the top of my head, I can only remember two players from my time who went to the bigger tournaments - Clarke and Harrington. It's a fish / pond issue. You can call it a marketing ploy, and maybe that's all it is, but I suspect (and hope) that Wie doesn't want to be the big fish in the smaller pond.

posted by JJ at 11:42 AM on June 06, 2006

Dear Mr terror, Steffi Graf won her first major when she was 17 (three weeks shy of her 18th birthday) Monica Seles won her first major when she was 16 (and six months). Martina Hingis won her first major when she was 16 (and three months, and is the youngest ever winner). Maria Sharapova won her first (and so far, only) major when she was 17. In the 8 majors she has played in, Wie has made the cut every time and finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th (twice), 9th, 13th, 14th, 23rd and 39th. She is currently 16 years and 8 months old, so she still has time to win a major and, by your own criteria, be considered as good as the tennis players you list. That said, I am decidely with Yerfatma when it comes to pointing out that you're comparing apples to oranges.

posted by JJ at 11:59 AM on June 06, 2006

J.J. I picked tennis (and forgot to mention the Williams' sisters) because someone earlier didn't like me mentioning gymnastics and instead started talking about Chris Evert. I am simply stating facts -- obviously for some of the thin-skinned posters in here, uncomfortable and hurtful facts. I'll say it and say it again. Wie is remarkable, yes. But she has won NOTHING yet. She hasn't won on her own tour, whereas the tennis players I cited not only consistently won tour events in their teens, they also won MAJORS. That's a huge difference. Is your mind boggled...? I didn't think so. Female athletes reach their peaks earlier than males. It is not uncommon to see women in their teens being the best in the world at their respective sports. That is much less so for male athletes. That was another of my so-called "chauvanist" points.

posted by the red terror at 12:26 PM on June 06, 2006

I think the problem is that every fifteen comments or so you show up and say: If Wie can win a PGA event maybe my mind will be boggled by this story, but right now it's a bore and a snore. or Good on her for qualifying, but forgive me for yawning, imo the girl should focus on winning LPGA events before we get out the PGA pom-poms. or And that is why I find this ongoing over-hyped story a snoozer. or Yeah, the girl's got game. But she's got more hype than game. And that's what the so-called "haters" -- like me -- are tired and bored by, the hype. or Because my mind refuses to be carried away and "boggled" by over-hype and inanity? I just can't for the life of me figure out why, if you are so bored about the topic, you keep coming in here and saying the same thing over and over again. We get it! you don't want to talk about Michelle Wie anymore, so stop, stop talking about Michelle Wie. As for the chauvinism... I really feel like that is the only reason that one would want to squash the discussion of this remarkable young woman who I, and apparently many others, feel really has an opportunity to create an element of unheard of equality in sports. I apologize if your sentiments are not in that vain; I just feel that the tone from the nay-sayers in here has an element of "women don't belong. Again, apologies if you don't feel that way.

posted by everett at 12:43 PM on June 06, 2006

Red terror - I don't think you're a golfer, dude. That's primarily why you're not impressed and keep comparing Wie's success to other sports that you seem to think are appropriate comparisons. Really, they're not. Golf is not akin to tennis in virtaully any capacity. Tennis is a young person's game. You're old if you're 25. Golf - not at all. Wie's run is frankly, unprecedented. That it does not impress you is fine - but you're clearly far from an authority given your chosen comparisons. Therefore, your added summation about her being over-hyped, also seems suspect given your platform. To wit - how can she be overhyped (which she may be, since that's a tad subjective - and I would agree with you, but for completely different reasons) when you have no applicable frame of reference for the over-hyping? Wie has not won on any tour yet. True. Wie's talent is spectacular - and her current achievements are without precedent - also true. You, and others, can't seem to put that into the correct context - because you can't get by the fact that she hasn't won yet - which is not the only arbitor of success in golf. My feeling is there aren't going to be enough wins for this young lady to overcome that charge. My other feeling is that when she does start winning regularly, and when she does compete against the men and do well, you'll forget that you had a chance to watch this all develop in such a remarkable athlete, while you were waiting for her to fulfill your simple criteria before you paid any attention. Dude - you're missing the coming out of a seriously impressive athlete who has a better chance than anyone else at destroying gender barriers in golf, and indeed challenge gender ideas in society at large. I find it fascinating. (also - People are all saying "she hasn't won yet - she's not worthy of the attention" - Dudes, she's frigging 16! And she's coming in the top 5! You can't see that as impressive, or even staggeringly impressive? The girl is WICKED good.)

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:07 PM on June 06, 2006

It's obvoius that you can't figure it out. Your tired of hearing about Michelle Wie, and yet, you won't stop talking about her. Do what i do, everytime something about hockey comes up, i ignore it.

posted by yankee0758 at 01:08 PM on June 06, 2006

When Wie starts winning tournaments and beating men, good on her, then I'll say the headlines are justified. I'm not going to argue about the Hype Machine. ESPN has devolved into two seasons: Barry Bonds and Terrell Owens. Everything else is just filler until one of them holds a press conference. That to one side, my general question for those on the "not impressed" side of the equation is: what do you follow sport for? Isn't the whole point the pursuit of perfection, the doing what has never been done, the no-way-it-couldn't-ohmigodlookatthat moment? If some young girl can come on at 16, 17, 24, whatever and compete on the PGA Tour, I want to see it. I can get an eyeful of rich old guys duffing it up in sorry-ass pants at my local public course and day of the week and twice when they should be at church.

posted by yerfatma at 01:42 PM on June 06, 2006

Try winning something...then write about her. I can shoot 3 over on a par 70 course and I play once a month. cover people who deserve the attention Wie all wish Wie could win something, but Wie all can't be Tiger. oh, and by the way, I want to see a birth certificate...remember that amazing little league pitcher who was supposedly 11 or 12 and was really 17 or so. not that it matters cause she still hasn't won a thing!!

posted by Halomaster at 02:55 PM on June 06, 2006

Well shit, Red, I can't make you respect the game, hell, it's clearly not worthy because old people partake in it poorly. You don't respect the skill involved at these levels - fine, but you're wrong. Why the bad mouthing sports for being able to crytalize societal pejudices? Jackie Robinson not mean anything anymore? Or is that all played out? We've reached the end of history - no more progress. Can't learn anything from Sports. A girl making the attempt is new. Hence - story. A girl whom the assembled critics have suggested could not only make it but be successful - yeah, I'm thinking it's worthy of some coverage. That it comes before game 1 of the Stanley Cup Finals? Blasphemy! But that doesn't mean I'm throwing the baby out with the bath water. Wie is relevant. You can choose to filter ESPN through the old perspective box (aka your brain) and be able to see it for what it truly is. Or you can choose to go the other exteme and dismiss it in it's entirty. Frankly, I don't imagine that's any more enlightened than ESPN over-hype. Call it the anti-ESPN under-appreciation.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:04 PM on June 06, 2006

Me and Halomaster golf together (I felt too bad to tell him that you can't use the scorecard from a full lenth course on an executive course, he always comments about how well he does on the 173 yard par 5...)

posted by everett at 03:14 PM on June 06, 2006

I sent an email asking why. I'm still waiting for a response. You could have just scrolled down in your thread. Michelle Wie is the new Barry Bonds. There, I've said it.

posted by qbert72 at 04:29 PM on June 06, 2006

It's not a lame reason, it's a convention of the site. If you had included it in this thread, it would have been a fine contribution, but posting it as a separate thread just fractures the conversation.

posted by yerfatma at 04:44 PM on June 06, 2006

bperk: I think it is crap to say that she has to "learn to win". Wie has to become the best golfer she can become. Her goal is not to dominate the LPGA. It is to make it in the PGA. Her training involves learning what it will take to do just that. Why would dominating the LPGA be a hindrance to making it in the PGA, and not a stepping stone? Babe Didrikson Zaharias, the last woman to make a PGA cut (in her first and only attempt, mind you), dominated the women's game like Jones, Nicklaus, and Woods once did. Competing against men only made sense for Zaharias because winning against women time and time again was not difficult for her.

posted by L.N. Smithee at 05:13 PM on June 06, 2006

Is she not playing in LPGA events?

posted by yerfatma at 06:30 PM on June 06, 2006

Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, Martina Hingis, Maria Sharapova all won MAJOR titles in their teens in their respective sport. Wie still hasn't won a title in any LPGA event, let alone a major. Well, Wie's still got 3 more years in her teens, so let's see how things look when she's 20.

posted by grum@work at 11:05 PM on June 06, 2006

I also really want her to win something in the hope that it will make certain people stick to their promises and either give her her due or shut the fuck up. /golf clap

posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:10 AM on June 07, 2006

July 13 John Deere Classic Would qualify for the Open championship if she won this PGA event in East Moline, Illinois

posted by YukonGold at 06:47 AM on June 07, 2006

Great post JJ. Every dingbat who crawls out of the woodwork to bash her because she's got a vagina should have to read that article, especially the quote at the end from Rick Hartman, her playing partner in the Open qualifier: "She is very, very good. It would have been fantastic if she had managed to qualify. How great would that have been for golf?" How great, indeed. And this from someone who, unlike some weenies around here, actually has a vested interest in what happens in the world of professional golf.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:37 AM on June 07, 2006

I wondered that earlier, I think that probably due to travel concerns, or scheduling in advance, she was in the local, regional, sectional area she ended up in. Her chances may have been better in Hawaii. 18 and 36 hole qualifiers are won by whomever has a hot hand, (not always the best player).

posted by mjkredliner at 11:28 AM on June 07, 2006