May 10, 2006

Going Long for Jesus: "Today, more pro athletes than ever are using their respective fields of play as pulpits to express, and promote, their faith. Unknown to many fans, though, there's often a 'coach' behind the post-game prayers and testimonies. ... Chaplains like Harvey [a staff member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes] are embedded, with rare exception, inside each of the nearly 100 teams in the Big Three major-league sports: baseball, football and basketball."

Note: The full article is available to Salon Premium members, or for free by viewing a sponsor's advertisement.

posted by Amateur to culture at 09:53 AM - 129 comments

"Coach" or not-its wonderful to see and cant hurt. May even encourage other programs (Youth, College Level, etc) to follow suit.Its good to see an article for once that is praising the things players do. Instead of all the trash talk and drug problems. God Bless them all

posted by oh2rooper at 10:48 AM on May 10, 2006

cant hurt Unfortunately, yes, it can. Did you read the article? its good to see an article for that is praising the things players do. Okay, you didn't read it.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:11 AM on May 10, 2006

The Fellowship of Christian Athletes... claims the Bible is "the only infallible, authoritative Word of God" Apart from all that stuff about working on the Sabbath... oh, and the stuff about touching the skin of a dead pig. This is quite interesting as a sort of history of the religion/sport connection. From a personal standpoint, it really gets my back up hearing athletes thank deities left, right and centre after they play, and I find it hard not to be cynical about the reasons most of them do it. I believe you can be religious and a role model in that respect without having to become a blowhard.

posted by JJ at 11:20 AM on May 10, 2006

I thought they were just pointing at the blimps. Blimps are pretty neat.

posted by SummersEve at 11:25 AM on May 10, 2006

Nice to see Slate retain its objectivity on this one: Today, FCA employs 650 people, and extends its tentacles into sports The author actually said "tentacles" when he could have said "reach" or "influence". I don't have a big problem with this. Some guys get together and pray after a ballgame, and some guys go to the strip club. Either choice is fine with me. As for the pointing to the sky and all that ... it sures beats the hell out of the throat slash, doesn't it? On preview: Extremely funny, SE. You got a LOL out of me on that one.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:31 AM on May 10, 2006

Mine was more of a snigger, but it was still a reaction.

posted by JJ at 11:33 AM on May 10, 2006

I don't fault the FCA for using the platform they've been given to spread their cultish vision - but make no mistake, they are most certainly a cult. And the blimp comment was outstanding.

posted by MW12 at 12:17 PM on May 10, 2006

MW12-your opinion Do you know the "mission statement"of the FCA Calling a group of christian athletes "a CULT" is ignorant.

posted by oh2rooper at 12:21 PM on May 10, 2006

oh2rooper - did you click the link to the FCA website? Have you read about their vision, the mission, their values? Knowledge, my friend, is the path to enlightenment. Try it sometime. Oh, and while you are searching the site, feel free to stop by the donations page and give them some of your money. Cults thrive on people like you.

posted by MW12 at 12:28 PM on May 10, 2006

wfrazerjr, just to give credit/blame where it is due; the piece is from Salon, not Slate. Different liberal rag altogether.

posted by Amateur at 12:38 PM on May 10, 2006

Nothing I hate more, but that shouldn't surprise anybody given my chosen username. Religion is at the root of most of the killing in the world now as it always has been. Athletic skill is a result of genetics not god. I always am amused when I watch boxing and a fighter crosses himself before he tries to beat the shit out of his opponent. If there was a god, does anybody think he approves of men beating the crap out of each other? Oh I get it, god won't stop a tsunami from killing 250,000 men, women and children, but he cares whether BYU wins their football game. Gotta love that god shit. It is the belief in god that allows guys to fly jet planes into the WTC. Why? Because they believe god is on their side. The Israelis, the Fundamentalist Muslims, the Christians, and George Bush all believe god is on their side.

posted by Atheist at 12:46 PM on May 10, 2006

(The Israelis, the Fundamentalist Muslims, the Christians, and George Bush all believe god is on their side.) And if you dont, then I hope you bring an air conditioner to your "Field of Dreams" Thats all I'm saying on the topic, other than "God Bless you all"

posted by oh2rooper at 01:00 PM on May 10, 2006

I used to know a guy who refered to pre- and postgame prayer circles as "circle jerks for jesus".

posted by lilnemo at 01:03 PM on May 10, 2006

We are headed downhill on a fast track for disaster. I would be stoked if I didn't feel like I had to defend my beliefs here, just as I am sure Atheist does not want to fully engage in the conversation he started. Can religion, in general, maybe stay a no-no here?

posted by everett at 01:08 PM on May 10, 2006

And yes MW12-I am well aware of the mission, Vision and values-Even before this thread. Why is it so bad to have Coaches being a positive role model on our youth? Yea a group that promotes values such as Integrity, Serving,Teamwork & Excellence, I have and will continue to support in my prayers and financially. These young athletes need organizations like this to help keep their heads on straight, because as we can see the "Professional Sports" cult really has their best interest at hand!!!If groups like these can install some sense of respect, teamwork and integrity in them at a young age, it will improve the image of the "Money hungry, drug dopen,wife beaters" athletes that some of our kids have as role models now

posted by oh2rooper at 01:14 PM on May 10, 2006

I used to know a guy who refered to pre- and postgame prayer circles as "circle jerks for jesus". We call it Yucky Euchirist where I come from.

posted by HATER 187 at 01:20 PM on May 10, 2006

A link about religion in sports and you have to click on an ad from the ACLU to read it. Classic. On preview, Downhill we go!

posted by tselson at 01:20 PM on May 10, 2006

If groups like these can install some sense of respect, teamwork and integrity in them at a young age, it will improve the image of the "Money hungry, drug dopen,wife beaters" athletes that some of our kids have as role models now Because believing in an invisable man in the sky makes you incapable of drug abuse, domestic violence, etc. Can religion, in general, maybe stay a no-no here? A never start a cluster-fuck like this again? I don't think I'm ready for that.

posted by HATER 187 at 01:26 PM on May 10, 2006

it will improve the image of the "Money hungry, drug dopen,wife beaters" athletes that some of our kids have as role models now hmm.. that makes sense, as i've never run across a christian leader who fits any of those categories. i think the problem is more than the christian-ness, but the hegemony of the christian-ness in athletic circles that makes it somewhat unnerving. in those cases where it's "our way or the highway," it's not uniting or valuable. in my opinion, it's divisive and promotes intolerance. of course, i've known plenty of christians who aren't that, let's say, "Fundamentalist" with a capital F. i think this article focuses on that sect. i've got no beef with a guy praying to himself to prevent injuries if that's what he believes. in the same vein, i still believe that the dodgers could swing a few trades and be a contender this year.

posted by ninjavshippo at 01:29 PM on May 10, 2006

"Up yer butt, Jobu...!"

posted by GoBirds at 01:33 PM on May 10, 2006

JJ wrote:

The Fellowship of Christian Athletes... claims the Bible is "the only infallible, authoritative Word of God" Apart from all that stuff about working on the Sabbath... oh, and the stuff about touching the skin of a dead pig.
From a widely accepted Christian theological perspective, it is not generally inconsistent for Christians to do things contrary to the Old Testament law. The gist of that perspective/interpretation is that Christ's life, death and resurrection instituted a new order and a new way of humans relating to God in which the Old Testament law was unnecessary.

posted by holden at 01:36 PM on May 10, 2006

I know the discussion about religion in sports is not necessarily new, and definitely not safe. However, I hope that we can have a useful conversation on the topic at hand. What I found new and interesting about the article was the discussion about external organizations like the FCA and how they exploit professional athletes -- encouraging them to make their private religion a matter of public display. Exploit is not an objective description; it is my opinion based on the facts and quotes presented in the article, as well as my own preconceived ideas about religion.

posted by Amateur at 01:39 PM on May 10, 2006

The gist of that perspective/interpretation is that Christ abolished the law and instituted a new order and a new way of humans relating to God in which the Old Testament law was unnecessary. except for all the stuff about them gays, right? amateur, what i thought was interesting was the mutual "exploitation," in that the organizations look better for having redeemed christian athletes after they've had run ins with the law. quite the little 2-way PR mill they've got going.

posted by ninjavshippo at 01:39 PM on May 10, 2006

I've never said that believing in God makes you incapable of anything, or that Christians dont have faults, its called SIN, and we all have FREE WILL, we are all resposible for our own actions, and will pray the price. Please dont put words into my mouth,the Word of God is already there. Peace

posted by oh2rooper at 01:47 PM on May 10, 2006

People who prosthelytize suck, be they Christian, Islamic, or any other flavor of madness. Religion is a private matter. Christian or Islamic or anything else, religious intolerance is jihad. There is little difference between Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell as far as I can see. Religion <> morality

posted by sfts2 at 01:50 PM on May 10, 2006

Oy.

posted by jerseygirl at 01:54 PM on May 10, 2006

ninjavshippo wrote:

The gist of that perspective/interpretation is that Christ abolished the law and instituted a new order and a new way of humans relating to God in which the Old Testament law was unnecessary. except for all the stuff about them gays, right?
While I think it's certainly a valid criticism that many Christians (including the "religious right") use Old Testament laws selectively (in terms of saying "these apply," but "not these"), it should be noted that there is an ample tradition of interpretation (not saying whether its wrong or right) that finds language in the New Testament addressing homosexuality. sfts wrote: People who prosthelytize suck, be they Christian, Islamic, or any other flavor of madness. Is prosthelytizing trying to convert people to using your preferred type of prosthetic device?

posted by holden at 01:56 PM on May 10, 2006

[this thread has been archived and closed to new comments]

posted by chicobangs at 01:59 PM on May 10, 2006

Religious intolerance is jihad. What the fuck are you talking about? Religion <> morality I was no math major (in fact I have a degree in religios studies), but I am not sure this equation is provable through the standard set of theorems. What in the world did you mean by this? Tommy, I agree that you are correct about your definition, but I think the offense was probably taken at the context you used, which at least to me appeared to give "cultish" a bit more negativity than is implied in the "any organized religion is a CULT." definition. Just sayin...

posted by everett at 02:00 PM on May 10, 2006

Come on baby...don't fear the reaper Baby take my hand...don't fear the reaper We'll be able to fly...don't fear the reaper

posted by JohnSFO at 02:01 PM on May 10, 2006

One of my favourite headlines from the Onion: "Basketball Player Blames God For Defeat" Other than that, I have nothing to add to the discussion.

posted by fabulon7 at 02:12 PM on May 10, 2006

The whole pointing to the sky, thanking god for scoring a touchdown is silly, but if that's your thing... and the article is pretty fair, showing that when not pushed in your face, exclusionary, or judgmental it doesn't have to be a bad thing. Like anything else, it's those that take it to an extreme that cause the problem. The whole antigay movement, telling people they're going to hell, not using their faith to support their own career, but using their career to push their faith on others. It is the belief in god that allows guys to fly jet planes into the WTC. Why? Because they believe god is on their side. The Israelis, the Fundamentalist Muslims, the Christians, and George Bush all believe god is on their side. posted by Atheist That has nothing to do with the article. If you want to debate world issues there are other sites that you'll find more to your liking. Also, the articles topic isn't "is christianity a cult". Read the article, discuss the article, or ignore the thread.

posted by justgary at 02:14 PM on May 10, 2006

Based on the definition of proselytize I think atheists can proselytize just as much as any religion as well as democrats, republicans, etc. Will someone define religious intolerance so we know how to discuss it? Thanks.

posted by tenasty at 02:14 PM on May 10, 2006

JG, I agree with you mostly, but at some point, all of these discussions get at least somewhat separated from the original article, organic discussions is why I like SpoFi so much. Please dont kick me off. E

posted by everett at 02:19 PM on May 10, 2006

I agree with you mostly, but at some point, all of these discussions get at least somewhat separated from the original article, organic discussions is why I like SpoFi so much. I generally agree, but we're reaching the point of no return.

posted by justgary at 02:21 PM on May 10, 2006

oh man... the grey matter comment was one of my best ever.... (deleted)

posted by everett at 02:21 PM on May 10, 2006

everett, When you got your degree in religious studies did they teach you the concept of jihad in Islam? Or was it somewhere where religion means just Christianity? Bob Jones U or an institution of that ilk? Seriously, are you being unintentionally obtuse or just a troll? Religious intolerance is a prerequisite for prostheletyzing. The zealot believes that their religion is more valid than yours, and that it his duty to convert (or revert for Islam) you. This is the basis of the FCA effort, no? They are most likely not embedding staff members into sports teams for the fun of it. If you are a Moslem the concept of jihad or 'holy struggle' is often (although erroneously from a strict intepretation) equated with forced conversion or failing that, the killing of those that do not convert. Fairly similar concepts, different only in matters of degree, no? The FCA effort is just a non-violent Christian 'jihad.' As far as the comment about religion not equaling morality goes. Honestly, I would have expected someone with a degree in religious studies to have had a more insightful question. Its pretty clear what that means.

posted by sfts2 at 02:35 PM on May 10, 2006

The power of Christ compels you!!! (to hit a homerun...)

posted by chris2sy at 02:41 PM on May 10, 2006

I thought they were just pointing at the blimps. Blimps are pretty neat. Even though it may be too late, I just want to give props for this line. I laughed out loud when I read it. Well done! /backs away from discussion like it's a raging tire fire

posted by grum@work at 02:46 PM on May 10, 2006

Is this really any sillier or more exploitative than Nike wanting to create "converts" by buying their shoes? Seriously, the only thing that this shows you is that atheletes are generally not very bright. I don't even mean that as a dig on religion, there are a great many people and atheletes that are, Chris Carter for one, but many of them are also craven jingoistic followers. The Christian Church only fills their pews with hypocrites this way. When Ray Lewis spouts his christianity, and then gets charged with accessory to murder, that's a black stain on the religion. When Allen Iverson makes a big show of loving Jesus and then shoots out the windows of his wife's car... I don't mean to dig on religion, I tend to like it, but it's not a brand to be sold. Unlike Coke or Pepsi, selling more units doesn't necessarily make us successful. Religion is not a mass-market good, it is a gourmet delight to be savored by the few who can find something so rare. Christian Evangelicans are just the bastard children of hucksters with tents who held "Revivals" in an effort to beg. They're the Billionaire version of the Homeless guy with his "Homeless, God Bless" sign on the corner... Religion is only used as a refuge for scoundrels this way. "Living like Jesus" is generally even something most of them think other people should do. Just look at the Pete Coors campaign... Pete worked to reverse years of anti-gay policies at his company, making it one of the most gay-friendly in the country. Why the disconnect between what he believes and what he does?

posted by LostInDaJungle at 02:48 PM on May 10, 2006

sfts... I would start with your wholly different interpretation of the arabic word jihad than mine, if I was going to spend any more time on this thread. but it seems like this is a good time to duck out. As for My degree. University of Oregon with an emphasis on Ottoman/Byzantine/Russian relationships of the 10th-16th centuries. So yes, just a wee bit of training on Islam.

posted by everett at 02:52 PM on May 10, 2006

Well I recently read the Da Vinci Code, and man oh man, was that ever a book with words in it. Then I started reading this other book called "Left Behind" and it just kept making me mad so I stopped. So in closing. Shut up. Me included.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:55 PM on May 10, 2006

As for My degree. University of Oregon with an emphasis on Ottoman/Byzantine/Russian relationships of the 10th-16th centuries. You are now qualified to serve me coffee at Starbucks, although with great disdain for my ignorance.

posted by gradys_kitchen at 02:57 PM on May 10, 2006

hahahaha.

posted by everett at 02:57 PM on May 10, 2006

ouch Grady, I was hoping for Law School, but I guess Starbucks it is!

posted by everett at 02:58 PM on May 10, 2006

Starbucks employees are held in higher favor than lawyers. Stick to the intellectual coffee slinging. Plus anything to get off this topic is appreciated.

posted by gradys_kitchen at 02:59 PM on May 10, 2006

Tangentially, I lost my last (teensy) shred of respect for 'sports chaplains' when they started praying like "Dear Lord, thank you for the wonderful sponsors of the NASCAR Nextel Cup Jim's Fried Octopus 500 on FOX ... " Whatever. God loves your commercials.

posted by mr_crash_davis at 02:59 PM on May 10, 2006

sfts2- I like how you call everett a troll/obtuse and then throw the term Jihad around like it's no big deal. On preview: Why am I engaging in this conversation?

posted by tron7 at 03:02 PM on May 10, 2006

On preview: Why am I engaging in this conversation? Rick Adelman throws out topics like this to distract us while he works to restablish his empire. He hooked us all.

posted by cobra! at 03:06 PM on May 10, 2006

Are you suggesting Rick Adleman is the Sixth Sleeper?

posted by yerfatma at 03:20 PM on May 10, 2006

This is how it is/should be. No it isn't. This is how it really is. I never said that. God bless you all. Wow! I can't believe I wasted ten minutes reading this thread. Except, of course, for the comic relief. What would I do without comic relief?

posted by garfield at 03:43 PM on May 10, 2006

I can say no more.

posted by cobra! at 03:45 PM on May 10, 2006

man, oh man

posted by yankee0758 at 03:47 PM on May 10, 2006

/touches nose suspiciously

posted by yerfatma at 04:02 PM on May 10, 2006

/Hides bible in backpack and starts singing, "Here's to you Mrs. Robinson, Jesus loves you more than you will know." "Whoah whoah whoah."

posted by njsk8r20 at 04:16 PM on May 10, 2006

Religion is not a mass-market good, it is a gourmet delight to be savored by the few who can find something so rare. It's the ultimate mass market product, and the more impoverished and uneducated the consumer is, the better it sells.

posted by Atheist at 04:30 PM on May 10, 2006

you see the nfl players pray after games not all of them just a few if that helps them go from week to week win or lose then I support I used to go to church and it gave me a lot of strength to play hs fb hallejuhah

posted by luther70 at 04:37 PM on May 10, 2006

God Bless you all. Except for those who don't believe in God. Or not my God. Or maybe somebody else's God. Or don't like to be Blessed. /grabs cooler, calmly but cautiously moves over next to grum@safedistance.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:54 PM on May 10, 2006

Amen

posted by bobrolloff at 04:59 PM on May 10, 2006

From the article: Prior and others say evangelicals often drive a wedge between players on a team,... I have never heard of an athlete(s) being a problem in the lockerroom because they are being evangelical. I suppose though, like everything else, it has its good and bad sides. IMO christianity does promote good morals, but if there are players getting spots on teams* over someone else just because they are pretending to be be christians, well, that is just plain wrong. *Also from the article: In training camp, Prior adds, some marginal players vying for roster spots carry around their Bibles and attend religious services to impress management.

posted by njsk8r20 at 05:34 PM on May 10, 2006

I have never heard of an athlete(s) being a problem in the lockerroom because they are being evangelical We had an evangelical christian in our over 35s soccer team. He was OK, kept his views to himself. However he was the only player to get red carded all season. For punching an opposition player. It was a good one, too. Knocked him clean out.

posted by owlhouse at 06:05 PM on May 10, 2006

But back on topic - some of you believers probably have the reference, but isn't there something in Matthew about Jesus himself criticising overtly public displays of prayer?

posted by owlhouse at 06:11 PM on May 10, 2006

It's the ultimate mass market product, and the more impoverished and uneducated the consumer is, the better it sells. Spoken like a man who fails to see the good in anything. Man makes religion what it is, not God. I know that atheists are created, not born, but you must have been pretty abused somewhere along the line to get to this point. I suppose I would rather see an athlete make a reference to a higher power than his agent or his highest paying sponsor.

posted by irunfromclones at 06:27 PM on May 10, 2006

I dont think that the whole thing is a bad concept, but if it starts to become a distraction to the team, it shouldn't be happening.

posted by redsoxrgay at 06:37 PM on May 10, 2006

I have never heard of an athlete(s) being a problem in the lockerroom because they are being evangelical. There was someone (white middle infielder/ utility OF type) on the Texas Rangers a few years ago that made waves in the clubhouse by telling players not to play rap, etc.

posted by yerfatma at 06:41 PM on May 10, 2006

I have never heard of an athlete(s) being a problem in the lockerroom because they are being evangelical. I have heard that the born again Gary Gaetti caused a rift in the Twins clubhouse circa 1988 for that very reason.

posted by chris2sy at 07:34 PM on May 10, 2006

Evangelical Christians wear polyester pants. (gasoline, gasoline, gasoline...)

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:44 PM on May 10, 2006

"I know that atheists are created, not born," Of all the statements made here, this is the only one that could get me to make a comment on this thread. Seeing that religion is taught, not inate. Are we not all atheist at birth? Other than that,i refuse to make any other comment because i believe religion is to volitile of a subject for public discussion as we can see from the thread.

posted by patch606 at 10:12 PM on May 10, 2006

Can religion, in general, maybe stay a no-no here? That would be great, but there are all these people that seem damned keen to make at an integral part of the sports experience. Pun intended. I wonder how many of the Christians who suggest there's no problem with it would remain relaxed about Nation of Islam preachers joining teams and Allah getting shout-outs?

posted by rodgerd at 11:10 PM on May 10, 2006

I have never heard of an athlete(s) being a problem in the lockerroom because they are being evangelical. There was someone (white middle infielder/ utility OF type) on the Texas Rangers a few years ago that made waves in the clubhouse by telling players not to play rap, etc. You are thinking of Chad Curtis. His evangelical attitude in the Yankees lockerroom may have gotten him traded, and his personality in the Rangers lockerroom pretty much killed his barely-average career (at age 31). He's now a phys-ed teacher and baseball coach for a high school.

posted by grum@work at 11:17 PM on May 10, 2006

Michael Jones of the All Blacks refused to play rugby on a Sunday. He did this not to big note himself or his religion, but to show respect for his Samoan family and culture. He's now Manu Samoa's national coach. Michael Jones always did his thing quietly, didn't try and convert anyone else to his way of thinking and is still much admired, even by those who are not religious. He was also a very tough bastard, and probably New Zealand's greatest ever open side flanker. Australia tried to schedule Bledisloe Cup games on Sundays, just so Jones wouldn't be in the team. Opposition players attempted to provoke the mild mannered and deeply religious Jones, even by trying cheap shots. There is a story that one Welsh player kept punching Jones in every maul and ruck. The All Black captain, Sean Fitzpatrick, took the Welsh player aside and planted one on him. The Welshman, getting up, asked "What did you do that for?. Fitzpatrick replied "The Lord moves in mysterious ways".

posted by owlhouse at 11:34 PM on May 10, 2006

You are thinking of Chad Curtis. His evangelical attitude in the Yankees lockerroom may have gotten him traded wow that article was harder to read than the torah... Thats all I'm saying on the topic posted by oh2rooper at 1:00 PM CDT on May 10 whats your religion say bout lying...

posted by bar_mangled_banter at 12:32 AM on May 11, 2006

I think we're all getting away from the point. Blimps are pretty cool.

posted by JJ at 05:37 AM on May 11, 2006

See grum, I'll be the idea man and you can be the details guy. It works for me, just like it worked for that guy, the one with the hat, back in the 50s. Remember him?

posted by yerfatma at 06:38 AM on May 11, 2006

Everett and Gradys, so what you're saying is barista > barrister? (no coffee for me this morning...yet)

posted by ajaffe at 07:22 AM on May 11, 2006

It works for me, just like it worked for that guy, the one with the hat, back in the 50s. Remember him? Yeah, grum, you know - he always wore that shirt?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:04 AM on May 11, 2006

Yeah, grum, you know - he always wore that shirt? Is he the guy that was in that one movie with that other guy about that stuff?

posted by wfrazerjr at 08:55 AM on May 11, 2006

I have read all of the comments. As a Christian, all I can say is: WOW!

posted by daddisamm at 08:56 AM on May 11, 2006

Can we say WOW as a non-Christian?

posted by jerseygirl at 09:14 AM on May 11, 2006

jg -- no you cannot; the term "WOW" has been trademarked by the Southern Baptist Convention. owlhouse wrote: But back on topic - some of you believers probably have the reference, but isn't there something in Matthew about Jesus himself criticising overtly public displays of prayer? Matthew 6:5-6 (English Standard Version) -- And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. Theology filter!!!!! (TheoFiTM)

posted by holden at 09:55 AM on May 11, 2006

Emo Phillips: In a conversation with a suicidal man threatening to jump off a bridge: I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me too. Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too. What franchise?" He says, "Baptist." I said, "Me too. Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He says, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?" He says, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reformed Baptist?" He says, "Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist." I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Eastern Region?" He says, "Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1879 or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912?" He says, Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" and I pushed him over.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:12 AM on May 11, 2006

Is he the guy that was in that one movie with that other guy about that stuff? Yeah, but not the one with the girl with the hair, but the one with the girl in that dress.

posted by grum@work at 10:19 AM on May 11, 2006

but you must have been pretty abused somewhere along the line to get to this point. Spoken like a true zealot. How ignorant can you be to make the assumption that anybody with a differing viewpoint, must have been horribly abused because they don't believe like you. Do you read the news? It seems like there are loads of horribly abused children coming forward. How interesting that their abusers were religious leaders working as priests in the Catholic church. It seems the belief in god may go hand in hand with all sorts of sorted crap. Stop throwing stones while living in the worlds biggest glass house.

posted by Atheist at 10:42 AM on May 11, 2006

As a Zoroastrian, all I can say is: EEP!

posted by cobra! at 10:50 AM on May 11, 2006

jg -- no you cannot; the term "WOW" has been trademarked by the Southern Baptist Convention. God dammit!

posted by jerseygirl at 10:55 AM on May 11, 2006

it seem the belief in god may go hand in hand with allsorts of sorted crap (as he walks away slowly he flings his bat at the empire)

posted by yankee0758 at 11:04 AM on May 11, 2006

Man, religion and religion bashing has a lot to do with sports. Nothing more to see here. Move along.

posted by igottheblues at 11:10 AM on May 11, 2006

Man, religion and religion bashing has a lot to do with sports. I know some people in Glasgow who might take exception to your sarcastic tone... As a mute, all I can say is

posted by JJ at 11:27 AM on May 11, 2006

God dammit! Sorry jg, the Catholics trademarked that.

posted by SummersEve at 11:41 AM on May 11, 2006

it seem the belief in god may go hand in hand with allsorts of sorted crap Your English makes the baby Jebus cry.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:57 AM on May 11, 2006

Your English makes the baby Jebus cry That's perfect. You're such a jerk to point out nothing more than a typo, only to commit a good one yourself. The baby Jebus? What a tool.

posted by Atheist at 12:05 PM on May 11, 2006

Your English makes the baby Jebus cry. The logic isn't going to cheer the little fella up either. On the plus side, if he can do water into wine, why not tears into Mad Dog? On preview: you're either trolling or obtuse or, I suppose, unfamiliar with the now-popular corruption of "Jesus" as "Jebus", made famous by Homer J. Simpson.

posted by yerfatma at 12:08 PM on May 11, 2006

Yeah - what a tool.

posted by JJ at 12:10 PM on May 11, 2006

I said, "Die, heretic!" and I pushed him over. Excellent comment Weedy.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 12:20 PM on May 11, 2006

You're such a jerk to point out nothing more than a typo, only to commit a good one yourself. Pointing out bad spelling? ON TEH INTERNETS? Thats unpossible! Tool indeed, hmmph.

posted by lilnemo at 12:29 PM on May 11, 2006

On preview: you're either trolling or obtuse Yes and yes.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:29 PM on May 11, 2006

zoom zoom zoom

posted by garfield at 12:50 PM on May 11, 2006

Thanks to whomever is cleaning up (deleting up!) this thread.

posted by jerseygirl at 01:19 PM on May 11, 2006

Thus spoke Garfield.

posted by SummersEve at 01:22 PM on May 11, 2006

A planet of play things We dance on the strings Of powers we cannot perceive 'The stars aren't aligned Or the gods are malign...' Blame is better to give than receive You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill I will choose a path that's clear I will choose freewill

posted by njsk8r20 at 01:24 PM on May 11, 2006

All preordained A prisoner in chains A victim of venomous fate Kicked in the face You canít pray for a place In heavenís unearthly estate Summers Eve, you douche, you beat me to the witty Nietzsche comment

posted by HATER 187 at 01:56 PM on May 11, 2006

Spoken like a true zealot. How ignorant can you be to make the assumption that anybody with a differing viewpoint, must have been horribly abused because they don't believe like you. Another clear sign of your insanity. I was referring to your general outlook and not your hatred of religion or God. There are few people more zealous than atheists. Catholic priests or any other religious figure who abuse children in any way neither represent the teachings of their faith or God. They are people who are commiting those crimes, made more terrible by their abuse of the position they hold. Oh, and by the way, you are forgiven.

posted by irunfromclones at 02:00 PM on May 11, 2006

I actually feel kind of bad that I'm not as loud about my beliefs as so many of you on all sides of this, even though my view of the universe is very clear and I get no less insulted when someone tries to tell me that I'm wrong. I don't talk about my beliefs. They're none of your business. Anyone, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Jew, Mormon, Scientologist, Zoroastrian, Mac User, Treefucker or Trekkie, ANYONE, who spends energy trying to convert me to their faith is not only wasting their time but insulting me as a thinking human being. I see a ton of that from a lot of people in this thread, and frankly, it makes me deeply sad, as an American and as a human being.

posted by chicobangs at 03:05 PM on May 11, 2006

WOW! Thank you all for some very entertaining reading. I was just reading Golf Digest before I logged on. This was much more rewarding. God Bless everyone-or not!

posted by Desert Dog at 03:09 PM on May 11, 2006

chico: BLAKE! BLAKE! BLAKE!

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:10 PM on May 11, 2006

TREEFUCKER?

posted by Desert Dog at 03:10 PM on May 11, 2006

"Son, what are you doing?" "Dad, I'm checking for squirrels."

posted by njsk8r20 at 03:14 PM on May 11, 2006

I don't talk about my beliefs. They're none of your business. Anyone, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Jew, Mormon, Scientologist, Zoroastrian, Mac User, Treefucker or Trekkie, ANYONE, who spends energy trying to convert me to their faith is not only wasting their time but insulting me as a thinking human being. Agreed. (really, you don't use a mac?)

posted by justgary at 03:16 PM on May 11, 2006

Hmm... Do you have to contribute a percentage of your income to become a Treefucker?

posted by MW12 at 03:21 PM on May 11, 2006

(really, you don't use a mac?) Who said I didn't? or did? (L_B_B, I still remember how offputting that was.)

posted by chicobangs at 03:21 PM on May 11, 2006

Who said I didn't? or did? Aaaah. A wishy-washy ecumenical secular humanist bleeding heart liberal.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:40 PM on May 11, 2006

Switch. Now switch back

posted by yerfatma at 03:44 PM on May 11, 2006

That's Mister wishy-washy ecumenical secular humanist bleeding heart liberal to you, sunshine. (Miss Jackson if you're nasty.)

posted by chicobangs at 04:29 PM on May 11, 2006

dude, your initial comment with that link got deleted. As did the one right after it, which, coincidentally, you fucked up the link on that one too. But I have to wait for wfrazerjr to call you on that, he has dibs. Just fucking stop, Atheist. And for the love of JEBUS (yeah, him), the Mac users, the Treefuckers, the Muslewologians - stop engaging Atheist in a "OMG jesus saves!" argument.

posted by jerseygirl at 04:43 PM on May 11, 2006

But those trees! Those trees! Those Truffula Trees! All my life I've been searching for trees such as these. The touch of their tufts was much softer than silk And they had the sweet smell Of fresh butterfly milk. I felt a great leaping of joy in my heart. I knew just what I;'d do! I unloaded my cart. If Dr. Seuss can't convert any of you to start doing trees, I most certainly won't try.

posted by tselson at 04:59 PM on May 11, 2006

Geeze, first dolphins, and now trees. Like my uncle Larry used to say, "It's a sick world, and I'm a happy guy." Of course he's the guy who, when a woman asked him to do her doggie style, he humped her leg and pissed on the carpet.

posted by njsk8r20 at 05:09 PM on May 11, 2006

Muslewologians? Those guys believe in jackelopes right?

posted by lilnemo at 05:12 PM on May 11, 2006

Trees also aren't opposed to this. sk8r, I dare you to walk in here nodding and squeaking, wearing nothing but a burlap sack.

posted by tselson at 05:23 PM on May 11, 2006

Oh no, I'm not falling for that again. That burlap itches too much.

posted by njsk8r20 at 06:09 PM on May 11, 2006

You're right about burlap and come to think of it, trees are for the birds, anyways.

posted by tselson at 09:48 PM on May 11, 2006

as a human being-I say "WOW" I now know why I cut down my time on SpoFi.. I still read alot, but writing comments have become a useless act. My beliefs are mine and mine alone. Its sad that one cant comment from a christain point of view without being made fun of or cut to pieces. "Respect" around SpoFi seems to be a lost word.

posted by daddisamm at 10:49 PM on May 11, 2006

daddisamm, it still cracks me up that you consistently misspell "christian". Look, bud. We all like you (well, I do anyway) and we respect the sincerity of your beliefs. But let's face it, some Christians do some pretty goofy things sometimes, and some of us think the midfield huddle is one of those goofy things, and we goof on 'em when they do it. Some of us feel, just as Jesus said, that religion is not a matter for a public display. Some of us feel that it's profoundly disrespectful of others to coax/nudge/push them to adopt one's own beliefs. Some of us feel that remarks that assert the absolute truth of an unproveable statement are subject to challenge. All of these reasons, and more, are why people do not receive universal respectful agreement and approval when making a statement "from a christian point of view". It saddens me that this continues to disturb you, because to my mind, you're genuinely upset over Christians not receiving a kind of respect -- veneration, practically -- and unquestioning acceptance that no one else enjoys. Why can't you just accept that regardless of the source or nature of your inspiration, you're just a human among humans? If you want your belief set to be treated with what you call "respect", you really do need to confine yourself to the company of like-minded believers.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:25 AM on May 12, 2006

lbb, I get what you're saying, and dada I don't think you have as much of a dog in the original fight here as you think. However, the thoughtful comments inspire a bunch of tag-along trolls who get away with it because on the Internets the enemy of my enemy is my friend which keeps people from calling out poor behavior and ridiculous claims. Unless you really think Atheist is on to something about the priesthood turning people into molesters.

posted by yerfatma at 07:08 AM on May 12, 2006

"Yes, we are all individuals!" "I'm not."

posted by JJ at 08:11 AM on May 12, 2006

Christian is just one word of many that I mispell on a regular basis, llb. The lack of respect I speak of on spofi goes way beyond the disrespect towards Christians. I dont expect "ungustioning acceptance" of my point of view. What frustrates me are the people who have blanket assumptions of anything Christian. This is why I have cut down on some of my comments of late.

posted by daddisamm at 08:55 AM on May 12, 2006

Yeah, well, I'm frustrated by your constant complaining about people persecuting you because of your religious beliefs. Jesus Christ himself didn't complain about persecution as much as you do, and he had it a lot tougher than you. I seriously doubt that anybody here hates you because you're a Christian. I know I don't. The problem is that some who profess to be Christian have an annoying habit of classifying any civil disagreement with their views as a "war on Christianity," an "anti-Christian bias," or something similarly sinister. You'd be wise to turn the other cheek and stop being so freakin' sensitive.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:23 PM on May 12, 2006

/waiting for dust to clear.... Whewdoggies, that was a pretty fair tussle!

posted by mjkredliner at 05:40 PM on May 12, 2006

This is not about me--there is a lack of repsect on this board in general. I didnt see my comments as complaints. I am merely commenting on a lack of respect on this board.

posted by daddisamm at 05:52 PM on May 12, 2006

So what does "respect" look like, then?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:00 PM on May 12, 2006

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