11/21/24
February 06, 2006
Game's Third team Upstaged Steelers, Seahawks: Three weeks ago, after the Steelers held on to upset Indianapolis, Joey Porter was unhappy about the overturning of Troy Polamalu's fourth-quarter interception that could have sealed the win much earlier. Believing that deep down the league preferred Peyton Manning and the Colts to win, Porter publicly criticized the game officials, asking them not to "take the game from us."
Hey coach...that's a load of crap and you know it! The steelers were the one's getting shafted not the Dolts! Get your facts straight and then rethink the statement!
posted by Rogie8766 at 09:05 PM on February 06, 2006
All right. As a Steelers fan I will willingly admit that there was some poor officiating last night. However, I don't feel that there were any calls that were total gamebreakers. The Steelers did make the plays when they needed to. For example Willie Parker's 75 yard run. Or maybe you'll recall the huge play where Ben scrambled and threw it to Hines Ward who cut off hit route and lost the defender to catch that pass. Again there were some crap calls, but that's neither here nor there. The Pittsburgh Steelers made the plays when they needed to, and what you're saying about the officials giving the game away is purely sour grapes.
posted by Tweeder82e at 09:09 PM on February 06, 2006
I just wish the NFL would issue "report cards" on the refs and 'fes up and say "Yeah, so-and-so really blew that call in last week's game." But just like that old country music standard, I guess it's 'Stand by Your Man'!!! Seattle did blow many opportunities, but the zebras didn't help matters any. Congrats to the Black&Gold.
posted by weeklyguy at 09:13 PM on February 06, 2006
I agree weekly guy. Any honest and real Steelers/football fan will tell you the zebras didn't help. I'm just upset that there is zero credit given to the Steelers for the win. The people that post and the stuff they post are rediculous. Realize and identify errors, but at the same time, give credit where credit's due, and the Pittsburgh Steelers do deserve credit for getting themselves this far and winning Super Bowl XL.
posted by Tweeder82e at 09:16 PM on February 06, 2006
Why is it so hard to give the Steelers their due. They had to play hard to get the job done. Bad calls go both ways. It wasn't the best game for either team. I'm a big Steelers fan and I'm happy to see them win the big one.
posted by Ruthie at 09:20 PM on February 06, 2006
The MVP should have went to the refs, instead of Hines Ward. They did more for the Steelers than anyone on their team. Three penaltys for 30 yards, 10 of which came on one drive with false starts. 7 for 70 all holding or ludacris cut blocking penalties after big plays by the Seahawks.. Im neither a Hawks or Steeler fan, but its plain to see who got screwed.. Not to mention the TD that was not a TD for Pitt. The timing of those penalties were all on big plays by the Seahawks.. I see a different game if that wasnt the case...........
posted by igotnextgame at 09:32 PM on February 06, 2006
This link is almost as good as the one posted yesterday which had the same tired arguments. I looked for it today, but it had mysteriously disappeared. Lose this one to. 21 - 10, the Steelers won.
posted by chrisly13 at 09:33 PM on February 06, 2006
Tweeder82e, I agree. There were some bad calls, but just like in the colts game, the steeleres overcame adversity and won. The only thing I saw, was the Seahawks drop passes, throw them away and let us make the plays that led us to victory! I think they (Seahawks) are a decent team, they just need to overlook crap that happens. they played frustrated when the refs gave them bad calls.
posted by Rogie8766 at 09:34 PM on February 06, 2006
i believe that the steelers would win win 9 out of 10 times they played however there are some things that i would like to see: 1) where were ben's feet when he threw that long pass to ward. they had to be a better shot then the one they showed on abc. 2) the seahawks completed a pass to pitt 1 yard line. the play was called back. why.the replay that that i saw-- the pitt guy jumped offside. the holding penalty was really really - lets say brutal. 3) i am still waiting for ben to score. what was the ref looking at. at first he was going to mark the ball. then he raised his hands. what did he see. sadly to say the refs had a bigger impact on the game then any of the players.
posted by whodat at 09:36 PM on February 06, 2006
Igo, Are you a ref? Were you down on the field? Do you have x-ray vision? It was a difficult call. But you can't see where the ball was exactly and since the HL called it a touch, inconclusive is inconclusive. Some of the holding penalties were actually tackles, oh wait, you can't do that to a guy rushing the QB. The chopblock was a crappy call, the pass interference was ticky-tacky, but you have to overcome them! Dropped and inaccurate passes led to their demise.
posted by Rogie8766 at 09:38 PM on February 06, 2006
As a die hard steeler fan, i watched the game and on some of the calls i was somewhat surprised. But, these are the calls that the officials have made all year, correct or incorrect. And after listening to Michael "cokehead" Irvin, and Steve Young make their comments at the half, I thought, "to hell with them!" They wanted the hawks to win! Sure the calls MIGHT be wrong, but from the angle that the ref making the call had, it could be the correct call. Oh, and Ben's TD, it was a TD no doubt about it! We have endured the mark malones, bubby bristers, mike tomczak, and even with those guys they were competitive. Hasselbeck, quit crying! your tight end talked the talk, but did not walk the walk. The Steelers may have been outgained, outplayed, but as one person said earlier, THEY MADE THE PLAYS WHEN THEY HAD TO! The Steelers won because they had the stronger will to win. Not the refs. Bottom line
posted by blackdog68 at 09:41 PM on February 06, 2006
Bad calls go both ways. Generally yes, though that doesn't mean every game is equal. Some games the calls do go one way. If you can think of any bad ones that went against the steelers, please list them. Hawks got robbed. Whats funniest about all the steeler fans coming out with the "bad calls happen/get over it/steelers rule!" comments is that just two weeks ago the steelers were crying about the officials. I guess it has to do with which side the calls fall on.
posted by justgary at 09:51 PM on February 06, 2006
mark of a great team is one that plays like crap and still win. pitt played like crap.
posted by whodat at 09:52 PM on February 06, 2006
You have got to be crazy if you think Ben's TD run was a TD! The ref was going to call it down on the one inch line, then raises his other hand KNOWING that it had to be indisputable evidence to overturn his call. I don't know about anybody else, but that was NOT a TD. And by the way, I was rooting for the Steelers to win so it's not like I'm bitching 'cause my team lost.
posted by wingnut4life at 09:56 PM on February 06, 2006
HAWKS CHOKED! Make big plays and you too can win! If you can quit crying long enough to see that, you'll also see that the steelers made the plays against the colts to overcome and win!
posted by Rogie8766 at 09:56 PM on February 06, 2006
The ref was going to call it down on the one inch line, then raises his other hand KNOWING that it had to be indisputable evidence to overturn his call. And later, he reached into his pocket to throw a flag and A TERRIBLE TOWEL CAME OUT! A TERRIBLE TOWEL! THINK, PEOPLE! THE FIX WAS IN ... TIGHTER THAN A DALLAS COWBOYS CHEERLEADERS OUTFIT! TIGHTER THAN BILL BIDWELL'S WALLET! TIGHTER THAN PEYTON MANNING IN THE FIRST QUARTER OF A POST-SEASON GAME!
posted by rcade at 10:01 PM on February 06, 2006
At least when the WWE starts fixing matches, they call themselves sports entertainment. That said, I think my Seahawks made too many mistakes and pretty much gave the game away, bad calls notwithstanding. They should have been able to overcome. The Steelers simply made less errors.
posted by RScannix at 10:03 PM on February 06, 2006
it is easy to choke when you have the refs hands around your neck. i glad pitt won so ben can shave that ugly ass beard he has. looks like kyle orten
posted by whodat at 10:03 PM on February 06, 2006
Worse then Kyle!
posted by Rogie8766 at 10:09 PM on February 06, 2006
Rogie8766...I AGREE 100%. Alexander had a solid rushing effort, and Hasselbeck made lots of great throws. Plus that defense got to Big Ben all game long. The difference was that Pittsburgh made the plays they had to (Ben's TD run...though it looked short...has to be considered huge, along with the Willie Parker scamper and the Randall El to Ward TD)... Summing the game up...Pittsburgh made the big plays, Seattle didn't.
posted by chemwizBsquared at 10:09 PM on February 06, 2006
To answer a few of the comments here: 1. Ben's feet were at least a yard behind the line of scrimmage on that long throw to Hines Ward in the first half. He didn't even come close to stepping over, no matter what angle was shown by ABC. 2. As for the calls, anybody who has followed football at all knows that holding can be called on just about every single play from scrimmage, so really it's just a crapshoot when the refs are gonna toss the flag. And besides, it's not like the ref saw the pass was complete and THEN tossed the flag. The penalty was called before the ball was even thrown, so no way the ref could've FIXED that one, right? 3. The only really ridiculous call of the day was the illegal block called on Hasselback when he was making a tackle. A tackle!!! That one was truly horrible. The rest of them were borderline but just the ups and downs of football officiating. Every game has calls like that, it's called the human element. As for Pittsburgh getting credit, well, here ya go: The Steelers made the plays when they had to in order to put away the game, plain and simple. As for Seattle, a couple really, really big mistakes were the Seahawks' downfall. I mean, Stevens did catch a TD pass but other than that I think he forgot to include his hands when he put on his uniform. And really, who in the world was Hasselback throwing the ball to on that crushing interception when the Steelers led 14-10? And finally, how in the world does Ben just heave one 45 yards, a wounded duck if I ever saw one, and Hines Ward happens to be open near the goal line? Where was the secondary for the Seahawks? The officiating was questionable but the Seahawks play and execution was even worse. Pittsburgh deserved to win, no matter how ugly it was.
posted by donnnnychris at 10:13 PM on February 06, 2006
Pittsburgh made the big plays, Seattle didn't. Wrong. Seattle made two huge plays that were called back. So if those were bad calls, that's a problem. As for the calls, anybody who has followed football at all knows that holding can be called on just about every single play from scrimmage, so really it's just a crapshoot when the refs are gonna toss the flag. That's a copout. Can we stop with the cliches? Sure holding is a tough call, and often more of a judement call. That shouldn't happen in the super bowl. You make that call, there should be a hold. A hold that's visable, not just a hold that's ok "cause you know, there's holding every play, so it's never a bad call". The refs must love this attitude. Can't make a bad call since there's a hold every play! Bullshit.
posted by justgary at 10:19 PM on February 06, 2006
This is honestly rediculous and I'm disappointed in the kind of fans that we have become. Sure, as a Steelers fan I was upset the calls didn't go our way against the Colts, however I did not blame the lack of production in the last few series of that game on the refs nor did I blame the infamous Jerome Bettis fumble on the refs. My point is that we were not making the plays to finish that game. Sure, we got screwed on a few calls, but that's no excuse for not making the plays. When it comes down to it, we still overcame. When will players and fans(Joey Porter included) realize that these men officiating the games are human? THERE WILL BE MISTAKES. So instead of complaining about the calls and dwelling on the mistakes, why not keep playing? It is very childish but maybe if you keep telling yourselves that the Seahawks got screwed by the refs and the Steelers did nothing to win that game except for showe up, you'll feel like World Champions. I've kept my cool and understood why the Seahawks fans are upset, and I still do understand, but I'm disgusted by the lack of respect given to a Super Bowl team. Grow up and become a real fan...
posted by Tweeder82e at 10:20 PM on February 06, 2006
i thought the seahawks made big plays but the refs kept calling them back. i didn't notice but did pitt have a holding penalty on off all game. i figure since there is one on every play they might have one or two. NFL games aren't fixed but there no doubt that the refs can play havoc with the games
posted by whodat at 10:27 PM on February 06, 2006
I'm disgusted by the lack of respect given to a Super Bowl team. And you were disgusted by your own players comments two weeks before, right? What's good for the goose...
posted by justgary at 10:46 PM on February 06, 2006
justgary, did you not read my post where it read, "When will players and fans(Joey Porter included) realize that these men officiating the games are human?" Read closer before you criticize...
posted by Tweeder82e at 10:47 PM on February 06, 2006
who knew you could have sore losers and sore winners in the same game? google magnanimous and go away. you know who you are. yeesh, i thought bosox/T.O. threads were obnoxious.
posted by ninjavshippo at 10:53 PM on February 06, 2006
I still say small market team has to play above their head all the game to win over the calls whether good or bad. Not a Seahawks or Steelers fan. Just like to watch football. Guess next year we can have good football. Take away all the cameras that the announcers and replay officials use and play just football not John Madden over and over again. There is no way the officials can see all that ??? cameras can see. Either let the officials call the game or let the replays call the game and make it 10 minute quarters so it will finish in less than 3 days.
posted by coach at 10:56 PM on February 06, 2006
Read closer before you criticize My apologies for not reading that comment. However, it is tough to read your comments without the use of paragraphs.
posted by justgary at 11:14 PM on February 06, 2006
When I saw the pass interference penalty called, I changed the channel with the statment that the Steelers have won the game, because of the officiating, and not to watch anymore, because the Seahawks must beat the refs and that is more difficult then beating the black and gold. On ESPN I saw other examples of Refs blowing it. I use the term blowing it, because I do not want to believe the alternative.
posted by Aggie1 at 11:30 PM on February 06, 2006
We all have our own opinions of what happened. Living in Pittsburgh and being a Steeeler fan, I try to see things down the middle. Ben's TD run was very very close. I think the ball made the front of the line while he was still in the air. It was very close and could have gone either way. The holding call was another 50-50 call. The arm under the neck didn't draw the call. I think it was when the arm came across and got to the shoulder pads. There was a slight grab but it helped look more convincing with the way the defender was coming around the corner. It looked as though he was grabbed. Basketball players flop on a charge. This could have been a situation where it "looked" like he was being held. The blocking/tackling under the knees was a joke. No argument there. The pass interference was a good call. If the arm had not been extended it would have been let go. The point in all this is that every game has bad calls. The playoffs and Super Bowl are the only games you can watch and thus the calls are even more closely watched. If this was a regular season game, nothing would be said. Each team knows they are going to get calls and have calls against them. They also know they must overcome them. Seattle didn't overcome them. Pittsburgh did enough to win. The call in the Indy game could have been a call that changed the outcome of the game. Since we can't see into what could have been, we can only go by what really happened. It ended up not making a difference. Seattle had their chances. Two missed field goals, one pass interception, more than enough dropped passes, bad clock management, letting Willie Parker run for 75 yards, and letting the Steelers run a trick play that everyone knew was coming. Don't go blaming it all on the refs. The Steeler defense did what they normally do. Bend and not break. I admit it wasn't the best game in the world. Both teams played bad. Pittsburgh didn't play as bad as Seattle did. They did just enough to win.
posted by dbt302 at 11:37 PM on February 06, 2006
I am neither a fan of the Seahawks, nor of the Steelers. I AM a fan of football, and an ex-professional sports official. Yes, officials are human. Yes, I would expect my league to back me up, IN THE PRESS, if I made errors in judgement. I would also expect to have to undergo remedial training, loss of post-season assignments, and perhaps even a demotion or loss of assignments if the problem was not corrected Post haste. Steelers, great job, not only in the SB but in the entire run during the last part of the season. Seahawks, great job, you played your hearts out and had some stellar individual performances (Hasselbeck, Strong). To the powers that be at the league office. It is time to evaluate where you are going with your officiating. Instant replay, as used, is an embarrassment. Either fix it or ditch it. An artificial time limit is no answer, it may take more than 90 seconds to view all of the available angles, especially in a national game, AND determine ball placement, AND review where the game clock needs to be. Will we the fans be happy about 4 hour games? Probably not, but I assure you, we will be MORE upset if the game is that long AND the calls are still not corrected. Officials judgement should NOT be reviewable. By this I mean was a player held, was somene in the neutral zone, did a snap get off before the play clock expired. Whether a player attempted to cut a blocker or make a tackle certainly SHOULD be (e. g. Hasselbeck's tackle). It is time for full-time officials. 3 hours for the game, an additional 2 hours for gameday prep, travel time, still leaves the chance to spend, say, 15 hours reviewing tape of the previous weeks games, not only the one that a crew worked, but ALL of the games played for the week. With the technology we now have there is no reason not to vid-conference all crews with the Supervisor of officials for 2 or three days of review, get input from all crews on what went well (by far the vast majority of calls are correct, and non-calls the same) and what could have gone better.This is certain to improve the officiating and make it more consistent overall. I hope I speak for the vast majority of fans when I say that is the desired goal.
posted by elovrich at 11:59 PM on February 06, 2006
I want to add something here. Tagliabue announcing no expansion to Canada. However, another thing that should have made the news did not. Tagliabue all but confirmed that there will be a 33rd franchise, in Los Angeles. I personally expect an announcement sometime this year. BTW, the demolition of the Coliseum here in L.A. is set to begin by this December and the stadium will be ready by next August.
posted by Joe88 at 12:09 AM on February 07, 2006
Let's put the shoe on the other foot: If there had been a phantom holding call on Willie Parker's touchdown and if Hines Ward would have inexplicably been called for offensive pass interference on his long pass from Roethlisberger do you honestly think the steelers would have won that game? I sure don't think so. Steelers fans would you just tip your cap and say, "good game." I sure wouldn't. So can we please stop the "crybaby" chant?
posted by tron7 at 12:09 AM on February 07, 2006
Each team knows they are going to get calls and have calls against them. They also know they must overcome them. Seattle didn't overcome them. Pittsburgh did enough to win. That logic just baffles me. What were the calls against the steelers? What calls did they over come? If the calls weren't made, suddenly pittsburg wouldn't have done enough to win. I don't think the steelers win is tainted. Congrats to the steelers. But the officiating was sketchy, and this whole concept that seattle didn't play well enough and pittsburg did enough to win is nonsense. The steelers didn't play as well as seattle. Their big plays were'nt taken away. Maybe if the score had been 30-3, but not this close. The game was close enough that the calls made a difference. Take those two calls and put them on the steelers two big plays and suddenly its the steelers who didn't "over come" them and seattle who "made the plays". I don't know what the answer is, but I agree with elovrich that the whole system needs to be examined, regardless if "bad calls" are part of the game. The less, the better.
posted by justgary at 12:21 AM on February 07, 2006
I only have one thing to say everyone knows the real truth. Even those steeler fans that are in denile the seahawks were cheated the refs seemed to only make the calls as soon as seattle made a big play. WHY you ask? To kill the MO yeah that's right when do you hold an opposing QB to a 20 passer rating and gain almost 400 yards and, still lose the game you may ask this question also. Yeah you know the awnser everyone FUCKING PISS POOR Officiating. It's ok NFL you got what you wanted the FAT bus his title and the CRY BABY WARD his MVP. WHOOPTY fucking doo it's to bad you had to cheat to do it fucking terrible towel waving refs. Ok good day all and congrats steelers even though it means nothing because it is a tainted win and always will be to all true football fans.
posted by BigDogintheCity at 01:48 AM on February 07, 2006
I think everyone knows when he or she goes to sleep at night the officiating was questionable to horrible in this game on multiple occasions. Those occasions all favored one team. I am not trying to excite either fan base here, just ask yourself what you really think inside when you lay your head down on the pillow - And then, listen to what else I have to say. The officiating in Super Bowl XL will forever taint this Sunday’s game, and make it mean far less for the fans of the Steeler's. It in turn will forever make the Seahawk’s fans wonder what would have happened in that game if the chips didn't stack so high against them. No fan Steeler or Seahawks will ever know who was really superior that day. The question will always remain. Now, if anyone can point out another Super Bowl in which the official’s had such an impact, please let me know. I want to see it. There simply should not be that type of influence on a Super Bowl by Officials unless penalties are clearly present. The Players should decide the game. The Steelers team happened to have a Hollywood Ending Pre-Scripted. Bus, Bill C., H. Ward. The Steelers' team had 90% of a stadium and 75% for the country in their corner. The NFL wants Sales. The NFL does not want a Florida Marlin's Baseball Championship where only 15%-20% or the Fans are happy across the country. They want a Happy Hollywood Ending - the lovers go off into the sunset, the one really hot chic left alive kills the Horror Villain (and how the hell did her T-shirt get wet anyhow?), and the majority of people who come to the theater leave happy. We as fans need to understand that the NFL is a business. We are the customers and We need to demand “Fairness” over and above “Drama”, and “Entertainment”. Somewhere this season, the season before, or maybe the season before that a change has come to pass. People are more interested in seeing a dramatic & entertaining game then a fair one. Those people are the NFL executives, and maybe even some of us fans? Commish Paul T. was asked what he wanted to see in Super Bowl XL. His response was "Overtime". He wanted a show!! The first thing on his mind was "Entertainment". Unless the first thing on Paul T's mind is a "Fair Game", rather than "A entertaining game" the fans stand to be cheated of a pure football game. The priorities are backward. Sentiment that the NFL Executives "Desire Entertainment" rolls downhill to the league Officials. There is no doubt of late it has been showing. In the Colts vs. Steelers, the Troy P. “No Interception call” was the worst call I have seen in my memory, and possibly the worst call in the history of the instant replay era. It would have been an absolute travesty to have that call enable the Colts to victory. The Colts were a better “Hollywood Story” at that time, and the game was Entertaining when Colts had another shot to score and to win. The desire to entertain, and sell the best story clouded judgment down to the Officials on the field. Joey Porter was dead on when he stated the NFL was trying to swing that game back in favor of the Colts. For that, the NFL should be ashamed. The NFL should be equally ashamed with the mass of calls against the Seahawks, and the Official’s roll in that game. The Officials were just all too present in that contest. I just ask that we as fans demand a better product on the field. To me a "Good Game" is foremost a "Fair Game". A game as fair as possible, a game as safe as possible, and then 3rd - a game as entertaining as possible. The NFL needs to get its priorities straight because with the calls in the Colts vs. Steelers Playoff Game, and Super Bowl they turned me off as a fan. They made me less interested in the games and less interested in the NFL.
posted by Weedamon at 04:32 AM on February 07, 2006
"BigDogintheCity" said it best. I'm neither a Seahawks or Steelers fan, just wanted to see a great game. I wanted to puke after watching ALL of Seattle's big plays called back. Take away the ridiculous offensive PI call that nullified a TD and all of the well timed holding calls that brought back big plays and Seattle wins. The Refs won the game for Pittsburgh. What a joke!
posted by Knoxba24 at 06:32 AM on February 07, 2006
I still say small market team has to play above their head all the game to win over the calls whether good or bad. Seattle is the 13th largest TV market. Pittsburgh's the 22nd. Not only did the officials get the calls wrong -- they cheated for the wrong team! A terrible towel came out! A terrible towel! Think, people!
posted by rcade at 06:42 AM on February 07, 2006
How can people who watched the Super Bowl and say the calls against the Seahawks by the refs werent game breakers. Lets see, a touchdown was disallowed for the Seahawks in the first quarter when the steeler and seahawk player were fighting for position. Second, and bad holding call in the 4th quarter against Seattle that instead of having 1st and goal at the 1 it was 1st and 20 probably taking away another touchdown from the Seahawks, and the worse one of all the PHANTOM touchdown by BIG BEN. Come on, everyone in their right mind and all the people I have talked all agree that was not a touchdown. So, 11 points was taken away from the Seahawks and 7 was given to the Steelers and didnt the Steelers beat the Seahawks by that same 11 points. I would have to say those calls played a huge role in the Steelers winning.
posted by smb871 at 07:15 AM on February 07, 2006
man there are a lot of moronic Steelers fans...The fact is that Seattle DID make the big plays, but the refs took them away. Face it, Steelers fans, the one for the thumb will always have black and white stripes on it
posted by joecab at 07:23 AM on February 07, 2006
Ya the ref's were bad, everyone knows that, but the seahawks have to say to themselves that its just as much their faults as it is the referees. Two missed fieldgoals, and about 7 dropped passes don't make for the winning equation no matter what game your in.
posted by superaug6565 at 07:43 AM on February 07, 2006
Holy crap. This is getting stupid. Maybe the pass interference call was marginal. But maybe Jackson shouldn't have stuck his arm out and shoved the guy in the chest. I mean, if it wasn't interference, he would have caught the ball anyway, right? Ben's touchdown was close. Maybe it was in, maybe it wasn't. But you sure as hell can't tell from the replay camera. So how anyone who wasn't standing on the goal line can claim to irrefutably know one way or the other baffles me. You guys must be special. Did the refs grease up Jerramy Stevens' hands before the game? Did they make Josh Brown wear clown boots instead of his kicking shoe? Did they somehow obscure Seattle's view of the game clock near the end of each half? Did one of them momentarily don a jersey and pretend to be a Seahawk for Hasselbeck's throw to no one? The only indisputably terrible call in the game was the one on Hasselbeck for his illegal block. And if fifteen yards at midfield was the reason Seattle lost, well, then maybe it was a close game that either team could have legitimately won.
posted by fabulon7 at 08:15 AM on February 07, 2006
I believe the tragedy is not what calls were made but what calls weren't made against the Steelers. Are you trying to tell me the Steelers played a perfect game after 2 false starts on the first drive? They didn't hold one time? Not one offsides penalty? Personally I saw one of each that was not called on big plays. One on the sack by Townsend and one on a big first down pick up where Marvel Smith did the same exact strangle hold on Fisher. I think there is nothing said if the Steelers are called for some penalties. There was no consistency. It was totally and obviously lop sided and biased. As neither a Seahawks fan nor a Steelers fan it was embarassing and a disgrace to see one team get picked on and singled out by the refs.
posted by honigman19 at 08:30 AM on February 07, 2006
A fan or neither team just a football fan. The game was tainted for me by the calls. It's too big a game to make calls that should be no calls. Why has the officiating been so poor this year?? Is it because of instant replay? Or is does it show the need for full time officials that can continually upgrade their performance just like the player do? I don't really know the answer and yes the refs are human but still this game lost interest for me due to the poor calls. The TD replay was a close call and I'd have to say the guys on the field had the best view but after the other calls then I lose respect for what they called. For me I didn't even watch the 4th quarter because the game had been highjacked by bad untimely calls. Too Bad because these two teams looked to be pretty evenly matched and this could have been a really good game.
posted by bllkxride at 08:43 AM on February 07, 2006
To Bossman and Bigdog, Since you are both obvious Cleveland Browns fans and can't make it close to the big game, quit your complaining. The refs did make too many favorable calls the Steelers way and, as always, we question the legitamacy of sports ethics. I do not think we can fault the refs by themselves, after all, wasn't the Seattle receivers dropping some real easy balls. The whole NFL (and all professional sports for that matter) should take a good hard look at being more of a game and less of a business. Think about it, ethics now lie where the most money is.
posted by jamesd1968 at 08:50 AM on February 07, 2006
"You have got to be crazy if you think Ben's TD run was a TD!" Just to prove my point, Big Ben went on national tv last night and admitted that he didn't think it was a TD and told The Chin the same thing on the sidelines...
posted by wingnut4life at 08:54 AM on February 07, 2006
I understand the Steeler fans not wanting to say there were bad calls. Who wants to admit that when your team just won the superbowl. I also understand the Seattle fans being really pissed about the game. They have every right to be pissed. No one can say if the outcome of the game would have been different without the calls. Everyone can have their own opinions but that's what they are just opinions. No one can look into the future and see that the outcome would be different. I have watched my team the 49ers be destroyed with the salary cap. I still watched every game of their pathetic season. But after this superbowl I'm happy they sucked. If it would have been them in this superbowl in place of either team I would have felt cheated as a fan. Winning a superbowl that will always be questioned or getting a severe screwing. The NFL really needs to shape up. I consider myself a pretty dedicated fan to watch the last 32 gamees of the 49ers has been difficult and frustrating. However after this superbowl I need to rethink my time spent watching this game.
posted by jtrluva at 09:15 AM on February 07, 2006
As a fan of the League in general(disclaimer: wife is HUGE Steelers fan; therefore happy not to have to sleep on the couch this week)there are a few things to say about this game: 1) The Steelers defense deserves credit for holding Shaun Alexander to a rather pedestrian 95 yards, getting enough pressure to throw the timing of some routes off, and keeping the Seahawks out of the endzone in the 1st half when Seattle SHOULD have put the game away. 2) Dropped passes, recievers who caught the ball out of bounds, and poor clock management hurt the Seahawks more than all of the questionable calls combined. 3) The offensive pass interference call was nit-picking, but technically correct. 4) The gadget play from Randle El to Ward was extremely well executed, and completely fooled the Seahawks... if Ward catches the pass, he scores a TD, whether the play was run from 30, 50, or 80 yards out- that pretty much negates the horrible call on Hasselback tackling below the waist. 5) If you believe that the Hasselbeck interception was the result of the previous holding call then you're just being a latte-influenced apologist. IF that holding hadn't been called, it MIGHT have resulted in a Seattle TD, or some dropped passes, a missed FG, or a fumble returned by Pittsburgh to the 45... All that being said, The conspiracy theorists who live in my mind and whisper to me while I'm in the bathroom believe that the NFL planned this whole fiasco, so we would be talking about this game up until draft day...
posted by don-peyote at 09:16 AM on February 07, 2006
don-peyote the problem is we should be talking about the game for how it was played not for the crappy officiating and what would have beens or could have beens. It's one thing if the refs want to be nit picky but they need to be that way with both teams. Other then that you end up will the majority of FOOTBALL fans complaining. Then you have people calling each other names and getting pissed off. Hello people the NFL is who we should be pissed at.
posted by jtrluva at 09:27 AM on February 07, 2006
I'm just curious were the folks at my house the only ones that saw Ben get shoved in the back and go sprawling on the Seattle interception? No call there. That could have been enough to keep Seattle from scoring the touchdown later. But we don;t sem to want to talk about the bad calls that went Seattles way. Martyr time for the Hawks I guess
posted by scottypup at 09:35 AM on February 07, 2006
don-peyote; I am one of the many who have said that without the holding call, the intercetion would nat have been thrown. Without the INT you do not have 1 and 20, you do not have, 2 play later 3 and 28, instead you start with 1 and goal from the 1-yardline. COULD those things you have mentioned happen? Yes, of course. But the likelihood of ending up 3 and goal from the 28 are very slim, so I feel confident that without the holding call, that particular INT on that particualr play, would not have occured. IN addition, without the int (and subsequent "tackle-block" call) the Steelers do not have the ball near midfield. The Steelers run their gadget plays from near midfield. It is not a long stretch, that if the steelers start that drive, after the int, or after a kickoff following a likely score of some sort, from say, near the 20, then they do not most likely run that particular play at that particular time. See what playing what-if does? But it has to go both ways. People cannot say, Seattle may not have scored evenfrom the , and still rely on the gadget to have scored the basically gamending, TD.
posted by elovrich at 09:40 AM on February 07, 2006
and yes, there were calls that were not made that went against Pittsburgh. But a non call is rarely as damaging as a wrong call. Regardless, both points only go to show that the officiating in the NFL needs to be addressed this off-season, and if you take a step back from which teams got screwed (they both did). you might just agree with me.
posted by elovrich at 09:43 AM on February 07, 2006
This thread may be the downfall of SportsFilter. Christ, it's starting to sound like Jim Fucking Rome in here.
posted by wfrazerjr at 09:47 AM on February 07, 2006
Where's the troll cap?
posted by bperk at 09:48 AM on February 07, 2006
I'm just curious were the folks at my house the only ones that saw Ben get shoved in the back and go sprawling on the Seattle interception? I remember seeing the play and thought it was a correct no call.
posted by tron7 at 09:48 AM on February 07, 2006
I still would like to know what part of the ball crossed the goal on the Roethlisberger run. It POTENTIALLY crossed on the way down, but certainly not when he landed.
posted by wdminott at 10:02 AM on February 07, 2006
I am not a fan of either team. But I went for the Steelers. The Ben TD was too close to call. These bad calls will come up in every game. I believe that Seattle went off of their game plan a little too much as well. I mean where was Sean. Why they didn't use their MVP was confusing to me. If they could have got him running like he did in the game against (my favorite team) Carolina they would have had a better chance. Sure, if Carolina was in the Seahawks place and things went the way they did i would be estatic(At first). Just like I was in the NFC Championship game. I thought if Delhomme would have just threw it to someone else, or if Foster was there, or if that call wouldn't have been called. And for whoever said if this was a regular game it would not have been talked about as much. Well duh man, this was the Super Bowl. Obviously there is just a little bit more on stake here. And that pass interference call would have been called in a regular season game. Even if it was just a small push, it (illegaly) created space between him and the defender. Blocking call on Hasselback was ridiculous, made no freakin sense. Holding call, honestly didn't see it so can't comment on that. Sure statistically the Seahawks won, but that isn't the way games are won. Sure the Seahawks had bad calls and the Steelers had a few.(such as the crucial block in the back on the Ben interception return, the guy leveled Ben from behind) Steelers and the Seahawks both played bad. Honestly i think they should redo the Super Bowl. And even if they did, I would still but money on the Steelers. I think they would have won regardless. I believe didn't capitalize on some of the plays that were almost automatic. Like Stevens dropped pass in the Red Zone. There were at least one or two people around when he dropped the ball, my though is he got scared. He caught the TD pass. While he was wide open. Truly, this Super Bowl was not a very good one. All the stars seemed to not be a factor in this game. It really could have been better. I think i would have rather watched the Texans vs. 49ers.
posted by threemoney21 at 10:16 AM on February 07, 2006
A few points 1) on Bens pass, 1 replay I saw showed the red line of scrimage...he was behind it the whole time 2) Yes, 2 steelers jumped off sides on the holding penalty. At the very least it should have been offsetting penalties. As for the holding, that doesn't get called 7 out of 10 times. It does get called 3 out of 10 though. Guess what, BS holding calls are called all the time. Blatent holding calls are missed all the time. Teams should be used to this. Sucks it came at a game changing time, but thems the breaks. 4) on the pass interference, don't watch the push, but instead focus on the DB's feet. Both feet were firmly on the ground, the receiver extends his arms and pushes and both of the DBs feet bounce back a good half yard and the reciever gets seperation. Now to a ref watching in fast motion he sees a cut, an arm extend, a push, a DB stumble back, and seperation. That play gets called a PI 90% of the time. 5) as to what plays the officials missed against the Steelers? How about 2 fumbles blown dead before we could recover (1 in particular that was a catch and 3 steps). Those are game-changing plays as well that were missed that Pittsburgh overcame. 6) Ben's TD is inarguable. There was NOTHING in the replay that could overrule it. The plane is a thin piece of paper that runs at the beginning of the white stripe...the ball simply has to cross that plane. The ball was in his elbow and his elbow was past that plane. you can't see for sure that he got it in, but you definitely can't see that he didn't. Correct call by the ref. If it had been the other way around, they wouldn't have been able to overturn it either. Face it, the 7 drops, bad clock management, and poor choice of kicking a 50+ yard FG in the 3rd were all things that affected the game. Sure the calls favored pitt more than seattle, but seattle lost that game for a lot more reasons than those calls. As was best described by Patrick. It's like a baseball team that has 4 hits and 3 homeruns while the other team has 15 hits but only 2 runs. So does the 3 homer team not deserve to win?
posted by bdaddy at 10:21 AM on February 07, 2006
This thread may be the downfall of SportsFilter. Christ, it's starting to sound like Jim Fucking Rome in here. Hey, Frazey, thanks for throwing me a vine.
posted by rcade at 10:23 AM on February 07, 2006
KEPT RUNNING TO THE RIGHT INSTEAD OF TURNING LEFT THIS IS FANTASTIC NEWS!!! I RETROACTIVELY AWARD THE RED SOX TEH 1946, 1967, 1975 AND 1986 S3RIES!!1!! LOL! ROFLMAO!
posted by yerfatma at 10:24 AM on February 07, 2006
on Bens pass, 1 replay I saw showed the red line of scrimage...he was behind it the whole time That red line and the yellow first-down stripe aren't official -- they're the TV network's best determination of where the lines are.
posted by rcade at 10:24 AM on February 07, 2006
Two missed fieldgoals, and about 7 dropped passes don't make for the winning equation no matter what game your in. And 9/21 completions with 123 yards no touchdowns and 2 interceptions does? That's the problem with this super bowl. Neither team played well enough to say "the officials don't matter". If only.
posted by justgary at 10:24 AM on February 07, 2006
to bigdoginthecity, your seahawks lost because they couldnt make the big plays bigdog! the steelers did and remember all that great time management by holmgren and hasselback. all those calls were judgement calls and even though they would have changed the score slightly , they wouldnt have changed the result. scoreboard .... and also try to clean up your language.
posted by kevin at 10:27 AM on February 07, 2006
on Bens pass, 1 replay I saw showed the red line of scrimage...he was behind it the whole time That red line and the yellow first-down stripe aren't official -- they're the TV network's best determination of where the lines are. True, but isn't that also then OUR best determination as to whether he's behind the LOS? After all a digitally placed straight line keyed on a spot where the ball was originally marked HAS to be better than an invisible mark some human being says "oh the ball is about 1/3 of the way between the 29 and 30 yard line so even though Ben's not standing by a hash when he throws it he's clearly in front of the line" :-)
posted by bdaddy at 10:36 AM on February 07, 2006
And 9/21 completions with 123 yards no touchdowns and 2 interceptions does? 1 TD (rushing that is). As I said, 3 HRs are better than 15 singles....The Steelers hit 3 HRs. ..the Seahawks had a bunch of singles (and a couple of home runs that were ruled fouls) :-)
posted by bdaddy at 10:38 AM on February 07, 2006
The officials made their worst no-call of the game when they allowed Keef Richards to play a two minute solo at the end of Satisfaction; what were they thinking? Granted, he's the best rhythm guitarist working, but a solo? Where were the flags at halftime?
posted by Hugh Janus at 10:45 AM on February 07, 2006
But he's alive hugh janus...ALIVE! And that is the beauty of it all...
posted by justgary at 10:49 AM on February 07, 2006
And 9/21 completions with 123 yards no touchdowns and 2 interceptions does? And losing time of posession, and less yards, and less first downs. You just don't win when you lose those categories. I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong bdaddy.
posted by tron7 at 10:51 AM on February 07, 2006
Hell, if I had someone else's blood coursing through my veins, I might be alive, too, justgary. BUT THAT DOESN'T EXCUSE THE OFFICIATING!
posted by Hugh Janus at 10:52 AM on February 07, 2006
The Steelers were given the Super Bowl trophy this year, they did not earn it. They are the worst team ever to win the Super Bowl. The NFL fixed it that way so crybabies like Bill Cowher, Jerome Bettis and Joey Porter could be happy. Joey Porter is a classless idiot. And Bill Cowher is still a terrible coach and Pittsburgh fans have no lives.
posted by tim at 10:55 AM on February 07, 2006
And losing time of posession, and less yards, and less first downs. You just don't win when you lose those categories. Oh and had more turnovers.
posted by tron7 at 11:01 AM on February 07, 2006
Bottom Line: Steelers won. It is over,done, accept it.
posted by edrita60 at 11:21 AM on February 07, 2006
And losing time of posession, and less yards, and less first downs. You just don't win when you lose those categories. I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong bdaddy. Glad you're waiting for me to do your research. How about this one (from this season) http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/gamebook/NFL_20050911_STL@SF Rams won time of possession (39:20), first downs (26:12), yards (405:217), and turnovers (1:2). Niners were 1-7 on third downs, averaged 1.6 yards per carry, lost 2 fumbles, and had half as much time of possession. Rams lost the game 28-25. Guess it was those crooked officials. Also another that is more dear to me (and how I knew it's happened before) was that unfortunate steelers game a few years back against the texans in which Houston had 69 total yards and still beat the Steelers.
posted by bdaddy at 11:22 AM on February 07, 2006
They are the worst team ever to win the Super Bowl. hmm...the first team to ever beat the 1,2, and 3 seeds in their division (the division which was considered far and away better than the NFC). They overcame the #1 seed DESPITE the same calls your complaining went FOR them in the superbowl, yet they still BEAT that #1 seed. The held the #1, 2, 3, and 7 highest scoring teams in the league to under 17 points each game. Yet they are the WORST team to win the superbowl. Interesting analysis.
posted by bdaddy at 11:49 AM on February 07, 2006
Congratulations to the Steelers, they won the super bowl. No matter the refs called an offensive pass interference that didn't exist, a holding penalty that not only was questionable but was preceded by a defensive offside and an illegal block that certainly looked like a tackle. If the refs had called a good game there was the distinct possibility that Seattle would have won. There has to be a way to effectively "punish" the officiating crew for what may go down as the worst officiated Super Bowl ever. Yet, the Steelers won no matter how much I wish it weren't so. How about a 1 game suspension and no post season games for the officials next year, somewhat in line with the Duke basketball game where the officials there have been suspended for the next game. All it takes is review by league and official review committees to see that the the officials were crap.
posted by Wonka at 11:55 AM on February 07, 2006
The Steelers were given the Super Bowl trophy this year, they did not earn it. They are the worst team ever to win the Super Bowl. So i assume you would think that Seattle would be deserving. How about we analyze this a bit. First of all, Seattle in the regular season, played teams like Arizona(twice), San Fransisco(twice), and the Rams(twice), Houston, Tennesse, and Indiapolis(when it didn't count). So if you really want to analyze, maybe Seattle was "GIVEN" their whole playoff appearance. Maybe they are the worst NFC Champions in history. Kinda makes ya think.
posted by threemoney21 at 12:22 PM on February 07, 2006
No matter the refs called an offensive pass interference that didn't exist It did. Watch the DBs feet on the replay and tell me how a ref can't call that a PI in realtime. you are correct on the other stuff though. There were enough bad calls against the hawks for you guys to complain about, but you should leave the 2 that were correct (the PI and the Ben TD) out of it.
posted by bdaddy at 12:26 PM on February 07, 2006
Everyone in my area kept saying why didnt the hawks just forfit the game, when everyone knew that the steelers were gonna win the superbowl.. but i dont know, i had to put up with my dad with the game
posted by shanessweets at 12:33 PM on February 07, 2006
Glad you're waiting for me to do your research. Didn't see that one. Sorry... thats still 1 game out of the 254 this year so still over 99% of the time. Wow I look at those stats and I can't see how the Rams lost. I did notice the Rams were called for more penalties. :) Guess it was those crooked officials. I never said crooked I said bad. I think the "fixed game!" claims are ridiculous.
posted by tron7 at 12:37 PM on February 07, 2006
Wonka, as bad as officiating was this year, there wouldn't be any officials available for postseason games.
posted by ems_tx at 12:48 PM on February 07, 2006
They are the worst team ever to win the Super Bowl. That comment should draw a lifetime ban from being an NFL fan. The Steelers beat the 1, 2, and 3 seeds in the AFC on the road and the 1 seed in the NFC in the Super Bowl. It's one of the greatest post-season runs in the history of sports.
posted by rcade at 12:55 PM on February 07, 2006
dbt 302, your comments are right on, particularly your last sentence. The Steelers made enough big plays to win. As a lifelong Steeler fan myself, I've criticized my own team for not using the big play. They took a huge risk on the gadget play and capitalized on it. Ben was throwing rocks most of the day but for a 2 yr. kid in the big dance he showed enough intellect to stay behind the LOS on the pass to Ward and he showed some gnads to run the ball on several occasions himself. The ball did cross the plane while he was at his highest point in the air and that's that.
posted by Sargnt V at 01:09 PM on February 07, 2006
The last time I checked, winning or losing the statistical battle means nothing. I remember it being the team that scored the most points. I don't think any coach in America would care if they lost every stat, every week. As long as they had more points than the other team, that is what really matters.
posted by dbt302 at 01:26 PM on February 07, 2006
The Steelers won and the officiating was not perfect but it wasn't bad. The push off in the end zone was clearly a push off and illegal. The receiver used the defender to push off and change direction. It was the reason he got separation, the reason the ball was thrown to him, it was illegal and it happened directly in front of the ref. A non call in that situation would have been bad officiating. Rothlisberger's TD was a TD. The plane of the goaline begins at the front of the white stripe. Even the replay showed that the ball kissed that plane before it was pulled back or hit the ground. Even if it did not kiss the plane of the goaline it was so close the call could not be overruled. If it were overruled the odds of a touchdown on the next play with a quarter inch to go are about 99.9999%. The Steelers won ugly, their offense was not as good as usual but their defense did what it always does and kept them in the game. The made the plays when they had to and to their credit did not try to sit on the lead when they had it. The trick play was a gutsy and perfect call. Rothlisberger made a stupid mistake that resulted in allowing Seattle back into the game when the Steelers were about to take total control. The league MVP Sean Alexander was contained and a non factor. To the credit of the Seahawks (not their fans) I haven't heard one of them use officiating as an excuse. Every one of them admitted to being outplayed as the reason for their loss. I am no fan of the Steelers but the best team won. There are always calls, non calls and bounces of the ball that occur in every football game. A winning team must play well enough to not loose on them. 11 points is more margin than any one call can erase. A team that holds the league's highest scoring offense to 10 points deserves victory. That is why they won despite an lack luster offensive day. Defense wins championships every time. Seattle stop whinning. Even if the push off wasn't called, it would have only resulted in 4 additional points. Not enough to change the outcome. Better luck next year.
posted by Atheist at 01:32 PM on February 07, 2006
Blackdog68 I see that you were sitting on the far sidelines from the tv cameras? The view that the cameras showed was Big Bens head breaking the plane of the goal line, not the ball, at least not until he was clearly down! That TD that was called against Seattle, was a "tap" because the defender did not change direction of his run, that is how the Zebs. are supposed to call it. so, congrats. to the Steelers. Seahawks are not sore losers. That's just the way the bounces.
posted by skyelord at 01:33 PM on February 07, 2006
Seattle was way overrated. They may have been the best team in the NFC but not the second best in the NFL. Lets face it, they play in a division where they get to play Arizona, San Francisco, and the Rams each two times. They only played four teams during the season who even made the playoffs. One of those games against the Colts was meaningless, and in the other three games with playoff teams their record was 1 win and 2 losses. In their 13 regular season wins, they got 2 against the Niners, 2 against the Cardinals, 2 against the Rams, and 1 against the Texans. Don't even mention the game Dallas gave them. That's over half their wins against teams that not only didn't make the playoffs but were about the worst records in football. I am an objective football observer and no Steeler fan. Seattle is the best the NFC could muster but the AFC seems to be where most of the talent is these days. Seattle was overated and probably not as good as the teams Pittsburgh beat to get there. Had Pittsburgh played as poorly as they did yesterday against Cininnati, Indy, New England or in any of their last five regular season games, a different AFC team would have been beating the Seahawks in the Super Bowl yesterday. I wasn't officiating that beat Seattle. It was the superior AFC. Even when Pittsburgh's offense had a terrible game, the more physical play of the Steelers was enough to keep Seattle from pulling off what would have had to be considered an upset. Based on their regular season and playoff schedule. I figured Pittsburgh to win by a sizable margin. Even with Rothlisberger statistically earning the worst super bowl QB rating. The Steelers were good enough to cover the spread with a touchdown to spare.
posted by Atheist at 01:34 PM on February 07, 2006
According to ESPN's play-by-play, the holding (or "holding") call against Seattle led to 1st and 20 at the Pittsburgh 29. Seattle, not the refs, allowed a sack to make it 2nd and 25 at the 34. Alexander ran for 7 yards to make it 3rd and 18 at the 27. Then Hasselbeck, not the refs, threw an interception. So, Seattle dealt with a bad call by allowing a sack, and dealt with 3rd-and-long by throwing an interception. When Pittsburgh had a worse 3rd-and-long situation (3rd-and-28), Roethlisberger made a great play (and one of his few good ones) and Seattle's secondary, not the refs, let Hines Ward catch a pass inside the 5 on a play that took forever to develop. Where was the pass defense? How on earth were any receivers open on 3rd-and-28? King Kaufman points out Seattle's special teams' inability to down punts inside the 20 also hurt them. (He also disagrees with the Seahawks-got-robbed "myth.") They gave up up 80 yards of field position on touchbacks, plus 32 yards on punt returns.
posted by kirkaracha at 02:02 PM on February 07, 2006
The officiating in the Super Bowl was just part of the horrible officiating that plagued the entire playoffs. It is a shame that the most succsesful professional league in America is unable to ensure quality officiating for the most important games of the year. Some calls this postseason (Rothlesbergers touchdown) were to close to be accurate but bullshit pass interference in a suprising abundance of holding calls are pretty inexcusable. I'm not saying Seattle should have won because they didn't deserve it, Pittsburgh made the plays and won the game. However, I am saying the NFL should re-evaluate its entire officiating process in hopes that this does not happen again.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:03 PM on February 07, 2006
thats still 1 game out of the 254 this year so still over 99% of the time. That's 1 that I found after a 2 minute search. There are most definitely others (and before you ask, no I'm not going to try to dig any more up just to prove it to you). Anyway, my point was made. This isn't the first time that a team has won a game statistically and lost, and it won't be the last. In fact in this example, you see a team that DOMINATED statistically and lost...with the Steelers/Seahawks it was all very close stats (yardage was only 50 some-odd difference, 1 turnover difference..that's nothing) so Seattle in no way "dominated" statistically. I did notice the Rams were called for more penalties. :) You'd also notice they gave up huge, game changing plays, and missed a lot of scoring opportunities. But I'm sure the Rams fans focused on the refs. I never said crooked I said bad. I think the "fixed game!" claims are ridiculous. Agreed. The holding penalty, for example, was called before the pass was ever completed...so the "fixed" theory, doesn't hold water.
posted by bdaddy at 02:12 PM on February 07, 2006
suprising abundance of holding calls 4 holding calls in 49 pass attempts is hardly an abundance. I'd say that's about league average per pass attempt (especially considering those 49 attempts were against the team with the 3rd most sacks in the NFL).
posted by bdaddy at 02:23 PM on February 07, 2006
I've also been remembering the little sideline reporter following Holmgren off the field at halftime while he was arguing with the ref about Ben's TD... I can't help but think that if you're so insensed by an upheld replay you disagree with that you blow your time management and fail with a 2 minute drill, you probably don't deserve to win a championship anyway... So amongst all the bitching going both ways I don't think I've heard anyone here say that the officiating in the NFL doesn't need to be addressed- that should be a given for the league in the offseason, and I'll be willing to bet they do NOTHING beyond something cosmetic..
posted by don-peyote at 02:52 PM on February 07, 2006
Had Rothlisberger's TD been reversed, I can assure you that instead of whining about it, the Steelers would have just lined up again and rammed the ball the necessary quarter of an inch for the TD on the 4th down play. Even if they settled for a field goal. Take the extra 4 points away, you can even add 4 points to Seattles score for the push off interference call they are wining about, and you still have the Steelers winning the game by 3.
posted by Atheist at 03:17 PM on February 07, 2006
It isn't the officiating in the NFL that is a problem. It's the rules themselves. There are cut and dry decisions, was he inbounds or out, did the ball touch the ground etc. The current replay addresses mistake calls in this area fairly well. The real problem is in two areas of judgement calls, especially holding or pass interference. In a game where in essence the blocking style on every play is very close to holding anyway, the rules have set up a situation where you could almost call holding on every play. Same with pass interference, on just about every pass play there is enough contact considered incidental that it is difficult to draw a line or have anybody agree. The league needs to better define these penalties to make an offense reach a standard of blatency and eliminate this huge grey area. On every pass play you have a situation where on careful review you can probably find something that resembles a hold or some sort of contact that two different officials can rule either way on. Its the reason the replay is of no use in this area. Did the Seatte receiver push off, of course he did. Did it warrant the call? It depends on which color jersey your wearing how you are going to see it. In the end it's like boxing, if you don't want to rely on the judges, then you just knock out your opponent.
posted by Atheist at 03:33 PM on February 07, 2006
Anyway, my point was made. This isn't the first time that a team has won a game statistically and lost, and it won't be the last. Ok and this was my original point. I'm not buying the claims that seattle didn't play well enough to win. Seattle had more yards, more time of possession, more first downs, and less turnovers than the steelers. I would say that's good enough to win which leads me to believe that the officiating had something to do with the outcome of the game. The fact you found one game doesn't diminish my initial point. I agree it's possible to lose a game when you win all these stat categories but it's highly unlikely.
posted by tron7 at 03:35 PM on February 07, 2006
An old baseball story comes to mind. Jackey Robinson has slid into third base and the umpire has called him out. The umpire says "you know you are safe and I know you are safe, but 35,000, people see me with my thumb up, therefore you are out." Heck of a lot more people saw the Refs with their thumbs up. There was the observation of the low percentage of times that this particular crew overturned calls. They were following form, compound one mistake with another.
posted by Aggie1 at 03:39 PM on February 07, 2006
There was the observation of the low percentage of times that this particular crew overturned calls. They were following form, compound one mistake with another. how was it a mistake? You saw visual evidence to contradict the Roethlisburger TD that no one else has seen? You people that are arguing about the Ben TD and the Pass interference call are making the rest of the impartial people bitching about the refs seem like a bunch of whiners. Those 2 calls were correct when they were made, correct now, and will be correct next year. Watch the DBs feet. Show me a still picture that doesn't show the ball crossing the plane. They were both good calls. Now you people that want to bitch about the refs and have people actually listen to you should keep your bitching confined to the holding call, the offsides call, the out of bounds call, and the low block call. Those were the ones you guys have a legitimate argument on. The other 2 (that seemed to be getting the most talk by the way) were CORRECT calls.
posted by bdaddy at 03:56 PM on February 07, 2006
and the low block call. We can all basically agree that call was complete bullshit though right? Pittsburgh won and that's it, but that call was hella-shitty.
posted by chris2sy at 04:31 PM on February 07, 2006
I iitially tuned in because I wanted to see a good game as I did not care who won the game. Neither team I follow was remotely involved. When I recognized the bad officiating I turned it off, as it was not a good game.
posted by Aggie1 at 04:39 PM on February 07, 2006
the super bowl is over so screw it ... u cant do anything bout it now.. we already got replay.. maybe we can start replaying penalties lol whtever i dont care maybe if i was a steelers fan or sea hawks i would but im not neither so ya i will agree there were some bad calls that went against seattle but im a bears fan so why should i care
posted by Chitownsports at 06:12 PM on February 07, 2006
Fucking punctuate.
posted by yerfatma at 08:13 PM on February 07, 2006
blo it out yo ass fatma... u r not kool lol rmalofolo
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:25 PM on February 07, 2006
saw another replay of the holding call on ESPN today. sure looked like an obvious grab around the neck sliding down to an obvious purchase of the shoulder pad and jersey. I don't know of a single ref in watching that same play at full speed that would have called it anything differently. Matter of fact, with the exception of the bogus low block call to Hasselback, every other call was made within the confines of the rule book and credit officials who have to deal with this shit slinging after every game. This has been a story book 8 weeks or so for the doubted Steelers that didn't end as perfect as we Steeler fans would have wanted.But long live the Rooney family, coach Cowher and all the other great things in this teams 73 year legacy. Let's face it, the Pirates will never make the post season again, they're about to throw the Pens out of the city so let us Steal Town natives enjoy this year cause I know we've earned it.
posted by Sargnt V at 09:28 PM on February 07, 2006
I do not disagree that the DBs feet moved on the PI call, however....(b) Initiating (bold added for emphasis) contact with a defender by shoving or pushing off thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass. This is from the NFL.com site under what constitutes offensive PI. It goes on to say...Actions that do not constitute offensive pass interference include but are not limited to: (a) Incidental contact by a receiver’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball or neither player is looking for the ball. ....Note 1: If there is any question whether player contact is incidental, the ruling should be no interference. Watching the replay, again, it looks as if the DB initiates the contact, and both are hand checking and fighting for positon well before the ball gets there. When in doubt, keep the hankie in your pocket. As for the Roethlesberger TD, there is NO conclusive evidence to overturn the call, however, if you watch the HL coming in to initially spot the ball he is clearly indicating 4th down, and only after the ball re-emerges from beneath Big Ben does he indicate the TD. Perhaps just poor timing, perhaps he was unsure of where the ball was initially, until we get the word from the man himself we will never know. But, bad timing or uncertainty are not traits expected of someone working a league championship game. The way the rules are written for replay, I do not think that the R can get with the involved official, or get all officials together once the challenge is called, he must simply go under the hood and see if there is sufficient evidence to overturn the call already made. The whole system needs to be scrapped and reworked.
posted by elovrich at 11:36 PM on February 07, 2006
Atheist wrote: The Steelers won ugly, their offense was not as good as usual but their defense did what it always does and kept them in the game. The steeler defense played no better than the seattle defense. Statistically, they played worse. Score wise it would have been a tie if not for the disputed calls. The league MVP Sean Alexander was contained and a non factor. He averaged 4.8 yards per carry. Any back would take that average. The only problem was his lack of carries. The steeler defense wasn't going to stop him. To the credit of the Seahawks (not their fans) I haven't heard one of them use officiating as an excuse. Monday afternoon, Holmgren told the crowd: "We knew it was going to be tough going against the Pittsburgh Steelers. I didn't know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well." "Penalties, as much as anything, were the story of the game, and that's unfortunate," Holmgren said. "It might be the first time I've said that in my entire life." I am no fan of the Steelers but the best team won. How in the world do you come to that conclusion? Regular season record? The super bowl? Where the steelers were completely outplayed except for 2 plays? The steelers won the super bowl. Bad calls or not, they were the best team that day. The best team overall doesn't always win, and the steelers, who had no offense except for a trick play and a long run, are lucky to have escaped with a victory. 11 points is more margin than any one call can erase. A team that holds the league's highest scoring offense to 10 points deserves victory. But not more than two calls can erase. The steeler defense gave up 11 points that were taken away. Defense wins championships every time. No it doesn't. Defense sometimes wins championships. Sometimes a great offense does. Even if the push off wasn't called, it would have only resulted in 4 additional points. Not enough to change the outcome. It was 11 points in dispute, and you're ignoring the momentum shift. Seattle is the best the NFC could muster but the AFC seems to be where most of the talent is these days. Seattle looks to be a more talented team than the steelers. Did you check the steelers quarterback stats? Great talent. Had Rothlisberger's TD been reversed, I can assure you that instead of whining about it, the Steelers would have just lined up again and rammed the ball the necessary quarter of an inch for the TD on the 4th down play. You're wrong. The steelers would have (and did a couple of weeks ago) complained just like seattle. Steeler fans would have complained just like seattles. Seattle fans would have called the steeler fans sore losers. People who are not fans of either (me) would have still complained about the officials. There's nothing special about the steelers or their fans that would make the react any differently than seattles. bdadday said: You people that are arguing about ...the Pass interference call are making the rest of the impartial people bitching about the refs seem like a bunch of whiners. Those 2 calls were correct when they were made, correct now, and will be correct next year. In no way is the pass interference call as black and white as you state it. I've read/listened to players/coaches/ex refs for the past two days and it seems to be split 50/50. That's a judgement play that could have gone either way. i have no problem with the 'bad calls are part of the game' cliche. I don't think the refs were crooked, or that the steeler win is tainted. I do have a problem with the thought that seattle didn't play well enough to win, so the calls are meaningless. The steelers played even more poorly than seattle. Neither team deserved to win. The calls made a big difference. There's nothing wrong with examining those plays and their effect on the game, which was huge. And it doesn't matter how seattle 'reacted' to the calls, unless you can point to the steelers reacting better to disputed calls. You have seattles play, steelers play, and the officiating. The quality of one has nothing to do with the other. The reason this super bowl was a bad one, and will go down as forgettable, is that no team played well enough to make the officials calls meaningless. If either team had played like super bowl team should, the two calls would have been lost in the action and victory.
posted by justgary at 01:15 AM on February 08, 2006
To me, the story of the game was not the officiating, but Seattle's inability to take charge when they controlled it for most of the first half. The Steelers took more than a quarter to get a first down, and their field position never got far from their own 20 as a result. When you have that kind of opportunity in the playoffs, you have to take advantage of it to win. Holmgren's comment about the officiating shows the same lack of composure that was evident during the game. He was more intent on yelling at the officials at halftime over a call than on the blown clock management that cost his team a chance for a field goal.
posted by rcade at 07:21 AM on February 08, 2006
Holmgren's comment about the officiating shows the same lack of composure that was evident during the game. He was more intent on yelling at the officials at halftime over a call than on the blown clock management that cost his team a chance for a field goal. Amen. As a Packers fan, I can attest to Mike Holmgren's lack of composure and clock management, both of which were ultra-evident as he did everything he could to let John Elway win his first Super Bowl.
posted by fabulon7 at 07:37 AM on February 08, 2006
I'm sorry, but i am just fed up with everyone saying that the PI call was in no doubt a wrong call. And that it should have been ruled no contact. He PUSHED OFF! Yes, you can fight for the ball, but at anytime if you push against him, you will be called for PI. And the touchdown catch where he kicked the pylon, his other foot was out of bounds already, so you have no argument for that. And just for the record, Seattle played good enough to win compared to the overall play from the Steelers, but the Steelers got the big plays when they needed them. And about the comment that it is unlikely that if you lead in just about every statistic you will not win. Very true. It is unlikely, but of course not impossible. But what i believe you were trying to prove is that Seattle indeed played well enough to win, and that the officiating had something to do with it, and your point wasn't that it was impossible to win that way. That i can understand. However, i believe that it did have an affect, but not enough to say the Steelers would not have won, and perhaps not enough to say that Seattle wouldn't have had a chance. But for myself, I still believe Pittsburgh would have still won.
posted by threemoney21 at 09:39 AM on February 08, 2006
But what i believe you were trying to prove is that Seattle indeed played well enough to win, and that the officiating had something to do with it, and your point wasn't that it was impossible to win that way. That was kind of my point. Neither team played well. For me, it doesn't hold water to point to seattle and what they didn't do, or their own lackluster play as proof they didn't deserve the win, because the same could be said (and even more so) for the steelers. The 2 big plays taken back in comparison with the steelers 2 big plays were the difference (minus the 3 yards at the goal line). If the steelers 2 plays would have been called back and seattle's plays not, we'd be having this same discussion. The calls were huge, period. I'm glad there was an uproar simply to get the league to examine the system.
posted by justgary at 12:36 PM on February 08, 2006
Forget armchair quarterbacks, now were all armchair Refs. To top it off few of us understand how hard it can be to make a call on the field. Give 'em a break.
posted by triforceym at 02:23 PM on February 08, 2006
Forget armchair quarterbacks, now were all armchair Refs. Yep, discussing everything related to sports. Perhaps you should read the "ABOUT" page again. Give 'em a break. Nope. They're at the top of their profession. There's nothing wrong with examining their job performance. If the league had your attitude the officiating would be even worse.
posted by justgary at 03:31 PM on February 08, 2006
While I hear you justgary, I can't totally agree. I think it is fairly clear whn one looks at how both teams got to the Super Bowl that a case can be made that Pittsburgh was likely the better team going in (their favorite status supports this) and honestly, I can't see how anyone who watched the game could come to the conclusion that Seattle out played them. Seattle ran wild for the first two quarters and then looked absolutely clueless in the moments leading up to half time, and again, clueless with a few minutes left on the clock and down by 11. Statistically, yes Seattle had more total offense - but they didn't seem like a better team because of it. The pass interference call was totally bogus - a plain bad call. The rest are all arguable. I can't see Seattle winning this thing with the way they were playing. Stevens dropped four passes. Alexander may have had 4.8 yards per carry, but did he look like an unstoppable force to you? He was used well in the first half - and then they had to throw the ball. Hasselbeck seemed to be keeping them around for a while - but Pittsburgh pulled of a 75 yard TD run and a gadget play to perfection. So who cares what Rothlisberger's stats were? It's indicative of nothing. I just don't see how one can suggest that Seattle would have won the game if the calls go different. Ah, such wonderful speculation.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:54 PM on February 08, 2006
The refs sucked. Pittsburgh won. As poorly as Pittsburgh's offense looked at times, I don't think the refs came close to deciding the game (and I think cost Seattle a fair number of points). It is disappointing the playoff officiating was universally bad. I don't remember a season like this for NFL refs (and, as a Pats' fan, I've been watching the playoffs a lot recently).
posted by yerfatma at 04:45 PM on February 08, 2006
I just don't see how one can suggest that Seattle would have won the game if the calls go different. Ah, such wonderful speculation. posted by WeedyMcSmokey And you're right weedy. I'm just saying the calls were big, not that they gave the game to seattle if reversed. If seattle had played better they'd have a better case. The refs sucked. Pittsburgh won. What yerfatma said. My opinion in 5 words. I need an editor.
posted by justgary at 05:05 PM on February 08, 2006
Refs WERE bad, but 'hawks would have lost anyway. Next year, Colts beat 'hawks 28-21
posted by Goyoucolts at 06:04 PM on February 08, 2006
Anyone else have a prediction for next year's consolation game?
posted by yerfatma at 07:49 PM on February 08, 2006
I guess we really know who the NFL wanted to win the Super Bowl. Welcome to the world of the small markets Seahawks. Now you know what the Colts feel like. Play good and try to overcome the refs. Go Lions!!!