04/25/24
October 31, 2007
The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Wisconsin youth football coach threatens to kill one of his own players, then administers a helicopter slam, just to drive the message home. You know, maybe we should sign the kids up for the Debate Club instead.
posted by The_Black_Hand to football at 08:29 AM - 82 comments
You know all the crap-talking you see on the Internet where people talk about how they'd kick this person's ass if they did [fill in the blank]? It's scary to realize that it's not purely shit talking and that yes, there really are that many people out there with impulse control that's that poor and who spend way too much time fantasizing about how they'd bring just retribution to the evildoers. As long as the real-life "opponent" is small enough, I guess it's not all that surprising that this kind of thing happens.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:56 AM on October 31, 2007
No anger management issues here.
posted by tommybiden at 10:00 AM on October 31, 2007
You're right, jay. And if I'm this kid's Dad, this story would become a whole lot more interesting. (or violent) This clown needs severe punishment.
posted by kcfan4life at 10:12 AM on October 31, 2007
you see on the Internet where people talk about how they'd kick this person's ass if they did [fill in the blank]? you mean like this? (LOL) if I'm this kid's Dad, this story would become a whole lot more interesting. (or violent) Note: I'm in no means disagreeing with kcfan4life as they would still be trying to separate me from that guy. I think it's instinctive to want to protect your children (hence mine and kcfan4life's comment), but that said, *in his mind* that's all the coach was doing (protecting his son)...his mind is just apparently a little warped as to where that line is and how to go about it.
posted by bdaddy at 10:27 AM on October 31, 2007
Holy sheepshit. My oldest boy, who is 8 started rocket football this year, and I think I would have beaten that poor bastard to the ground. No matter who's child he attacked, that is beyond wrong. After all football is a contact sport, and if your child get's manhandled on a play, let it go. That's football. If I were the kids father, I would do the same to him. Wow....
posted by Marko2020 at 10:47 AM on October 31, 2007
I do see your point, bd, and maybe my comment was a bit of a knee jerk reaction. But I've coached this age level, and seen some pretty nasty things, and going to the official would still be the first thing I would do. Understanding this was a scrimmage, then you go to the other kids coach and tell him to straighten it out. All the post said is that the looney coach's kid got blocked and knocked down. Buy him a tennis raquet and move on. Sorry, but I've about had enough of Youth Sports Coaches getting this kind of attention.
posted by kcfan4life at 10:48 AM on October 31, 2007
Even if your initial reaction was to whack someone who hurt your child, as soon as you grabbed the little rascal, you would realize that he was just a little kid himself and forego the body slamming, right?
posted by bperk at 10:53 AM on October 31, 2007
It is possible that the 12 year old who got bodyslammed is a punk who really did take a cheap shot at this other kid, and deserved to be corrected in a reasonable fashion, i.e. verbal correction and perhaps being made to run some laps. The problem with youth sports is the adults.
posted by insomnyuk at 10:57 AM on October 31, 2007
As a parent, I would do anything to protect my child from harm from an adult or an older or bigger child. As a parent, if my child is playing a sport with another child and my child gets injured, I would not attack the other child (even if the shot was cheap -- there are other ways to deal with that). I would do what I could to help my child. A man or woman who is put in a position of responsibilty to train all children should never harm a child no matter what happens on the field. Where are the pitchforks?
posted by Monica Poland at 10:57 AM on October 31, 2007
you mean like this? (LOL) Yeah, that was kinda my point. Kid blocks your kid, you slam the blocker to the ground. You see your kid block some other kid kid and get slammed to the ground by that kid's dad, you commit some serious assault on the dad. You go to jail. Everybody loses. I think it would be wise for people to ease back from the, "If someone did that to me/my kid/my wife/my dog" talk, and understand the difference between protection and retaliation. It's just talk, sure, but if you keep playing those tapes in your head, they're a lot more likely to play out in real life given the right stimulus. Think instead about how to remedy the situation rather than add to the damage.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:01 AM on October 31, 2007
...and I think I would have beaten that poor bastard to the ground. Believe me, that's the last thing that should be done. Reinforcing violence is not a very good lesson at time of incident. You would be guilty of same infraction and in front of the kids. I know at the moment your protective mode comes into play however, making sure your kid is ok and getting him away from the situation is a much better plan.
posted by brickman at 11:03 AM on October 31, 2007
Is there a screening process in place for youth sport coaches?
posted by fourthreeforty at 11:19 AM on October 31, 2007
Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but MY 12-year old would turn around and beat the shit outta anyone who would attempt to slam him. That's how tough I am. It's not a case of my dad can beat up your dad - my 12 year old can beat up YOU. Yeah, that's right. Bring it, tough guy. WOOO!! WOOOO!!! (end scene) My favorite part of these threads is that people's seemingly first reaction to unappropriate violence is to personally engage in escalating it. That coach wasn't protecting his son anymore than you'd be protecting yours by attacking him after the fact. It's just unchecked aggression without thought. The Id equivalent of being unable to prevent yourself from peeing your pants.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:42 AM on October 31, 2007
You're right Weedy, but honestly, after I peed my pants, I would then engage in some unchecked aggression without thought toward that coach. Seriously though, you do make a good point. But all this is after the fact with time to cool off. Plus the fact that none of this actually happened to any of our kids, so it's pretty easy to sit back and say exactly what we would do. I like to picture myself as the bad ass though, so please don't ruin that for me.
posted by kcfan4life at 12:02 PM on October 31, 2007
I think it would be wise for people to ease back from the, "If someone did that to me/my kid/my wife/my dog" talk, and understand the difference between protection and retaliation. Exactly. Otherwise you're the same as coach whack job. He was a coach, for godsake! Unlike most parents, he's not powerless in this situation. If this really was a cheap shot, he could have made an example of the kid in an appropriate way. A verbal reprimand, run laps, suspended or even cut him from the team. To me, as a parent, the most important thing here is the example I set for my kids. What do you think Coach whack job's son is thinking when he sees his dad doing this? My first guess is "thank god it's not me this time." But seriously, if we want our kids to act in a reasonable manner with a level head, we need to show them how to do that, no matter the provocation.
posted by cjets at 12:07 PM on October 31, 2007
Sitting here calmly reading this I can say without equivication that if I saw any adult pick up my son and throw him to the ground, the guy would wake up a week later wondering what the fuck hit him. Escalating the violence is when you have to wait your turn to hit the guy.
posted by irunfromclones at 12:33 PM on October 31, 2007
Sitting here calmly reading this I can say without equivication that if I saw any adult pick up my son and throw him to the ground, the guy would wake up a week later wondering what the fuck hit him. I can understand the reaction and I'd be tempted to do the same. But you're not preventing the guy from hitting your kid in the first place. And, when the cops show up do you think they're going to care who started it? No, they'll throw both your asses in jail and let the lawyers figure it out. And I know how much everyone on this site loves lawyers. If you are PREVENTING someone from taking another whack at your kid, that's a whole nother kettle of fish.
posted by cjets at 12:54 PM on October 31, 2007
I hate unchecked aggression. It makes me want to go kick somebody's effing ass! C'mon, bring it, you anonymous typing MFer's! BRAZZLE FRAZZ!!!
posted by THX-1138 at 12:54 PM on October 31, 2007
Man, I'm glad I don't have kids. The level of child-worship here is slightly disturbing and completely beyond my reasoning capacity. Is the kid in question hurt? Need a visit to the ER? Has he developed anxiety, anorexia, or amnesia as a result? No? So the solution to a scrimmage game that got out of hand because of a violent and OVER-protective parent is to be, ...wait for it.... a violent and over-protective parent? Strange...
posted by r8rh8r27 at 12:59 PM on October 31, 2007
BRAZZLE FRAZZ!!! Lemme guess: Pogo?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:36 PM on October 31, 2007
Nope, lbb. Flintstones.
posted by THX-1138 at 01:47 PM on October 31, 2007
Exactly. Otherwise you're the same as coach whack job I disagree. There is a difference between an adult watching his son get injured in a sporting event and assaulting the 12 year old responsible, and a 30+ year old watching his son get assaulted by another 30+ year old, and in turn assaulting the one responsible. I see them as 2 different things and I have zero doubt that a court (at least here in Texas) would see them as 2 different things as well. Charges against me as the 2nd father would be dismissed quicker than the DA could say "Oh, hell no...I'm not getting involved in that!" Heck, I'd venture to say if you beat him to death you would still get off on a "temporary insanity/crime of passion" defense (except for California of course) :-)
posted by bdaddy at 02:37 PM on October 31, 2007
Funny, but where I'm from you're not allowed to kill someone for punching your kid. We're barbarians. I know. Now if they disparage your hockey team... Well, let's just say that "2 minutes for Attempted Murder" is a profound entry in the box score.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:27 PM on October 31, 2007
Funny, but where I'm from you're not allowed to kill someone for punching your kid. We're barbarians. I know. Now if they disparage your hockey team... Well, let's just say that "2 minutes for Attempted Murder" is a profound entry in the box score.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:29 PM on October 31, 2007
Funny, but where I'm from you're not allowed to kill someone for punching your kid. We're barbarians. I know. Now if they disparage your hockey team... Well, let's just say that "2 minutes for Attempted Murder" is a profound entry in the box score.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:29 PM on October 31, 2007
Funny, but where I'm from you're not allowed to kill someone for punching your kid. We're barbarians. I know. Now if they disparage your hockey team... Well, let's just say that "2 minutes for Attempted Murder" is a profound entry in the box score.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:30 PM on October 31, 2007
Funny, but where I'm from...oh wait, did y'all already hear that joke? Heh. bdaddy: I see them as 2 different things and I have zero doubt that a court (at least here in Texas) would see them as 2 different things as well. Charges against me as the 2nd father would be dismissed quicker than the DA could say "Oh, hell no...I'm not getting involved in that!" Are you willing to bet your freedom and a lot of money on that? If you beat the snot out of someone, the cops are gong to arrest you unless they're dead certain it was in self-defense or defense (not retaliation, defense) of someone else. You go to jail. You have to convince the judge that you are safe to let out on bail, and then you get to raise the bail. The DA gets to decide whether he/she will bring charges, and if you did a lot of damage or you were retaliating rather than defending, I'm guessing that despite your assertion about non-Californian DAs, he/she probably would. Then you have to hire a lawyer to defend you. You have to show up in court. You may lose your job, because there are jobs aplenty where you will be terminated merely for being accused of a felony. You go through a trial, pay your lawyer, maybe go free or maybe not. Any way you slice it, it's hardly the cakewalk you make it out to be. Back in the days when usenet ruled, a very smart guy named Jeff Pipkins posted this essay, which you really ought to read if you believe that you can batter another person and the DA will just wink and nod. I'll post a short exerpt here: "You get into a verbal exchange with some redneck and then he grabs your shirt, you hit him, there's a fight, in the end he is dead or crippled. You say, "It was self-defense! He attacked me!" Witnesses say the two of you were starting trouble, a fight broke out, and the other guy's dead. They haul you in, slap a charge on you, throw you in jail until there's a hearing to decide how much you have to pay them to let you live at home while you wait for the trial. Don't have the cash? Too bad, that's the high price of living at home. And by the way, you were just protecting your family? That's honorable, but who's protecting them while you're in jail?" Pounding on people gets you in trouble, any way you slice it. Before you do it, better be damn sure that it's saving you from worse trouble and that you have no other alternatives. I strongly suspect that chest-thumping fantasies are poor entertainment while you're locked up.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:50 PM on October 31, 2007
I disagree. There is a difference between an adult watching his son get injured in a sporting event and assaulting the 12 year old responsible, and a 30+ year old watching his son get assaulted by another 30+ year old, and in turn assaulting the one responsible. Yes, there is a difference. But at the end of the day, you're still assaulting someone. And where I live (California), assault is still a crime (Celebrities murdering other people apparently isn't a crime in California, but that's a whole other discussion). Please see LBB's excellent description of what happens when you get involved with the criminal justice system. It's often been compared to punching molasses.
posted by cjets at 04:37 PM on October 31, 2007
If he dont want his kid taking a hit,legal or not,he shouldn't let the boy play.if he doesn't have enough control to stop himself from assaulting a child,he should not be coaching.maybe he and his son should take up ballet.
posted by mars1 at 05:58 PM on October 31, 2007
I am puzzled by everyones statements as far as "What I would do to that coach if it was my kid." Why is everyone so sure they could kick this coaches ass? The male ego sure is something to behold. Let the Justice System take care of him, then sue him. It's better than getting into a fight you may or may not win.
posted by scuubie at 06:23 PM on October 31, 2007
scuubie-Amen.
posted by brickman at 06:28 PM on October 31, 2007
Violence is never the answer, unless the question happens to be what is never the answer.
posted by kyrilmitch_76 at 06:56 PM on October 31, 2007
Not long ago I would have commented to this thread with something like "I would rip his head off and $#!+ down his neck cavity". Maybe I'm tired today (put in about 20 hours between last night and now), but my only reaction is "Oh, Lord, here we go again". The so-called coach needs to be charged with some sort of assault, if only to get a felony conviction on his record. Then let the slob try to get a job requiring a security clearance (or any job that requires bonding), a position coaching youth sports or leading a scout troop. I think you get my drift. The rather permanent brand of a felony conviction will do wonders toward really punishing someone. For those who think this guy should get some sort of break because he was "angry" or "it's his first time" (I'm assuming that's the case here), I would offer that you should consider that anybody who would deliberately harm an innocent kid definitely has deeper issues.
posted by Howard_T at 08:56 PM on October 31, 2007
While I like to believe that I would probably knock this asshole out, I also agree with setting a better example. Truth be told, not one of us really knows what we would do unless faced with the situation ourselves. I coach for a middle school team and needed a local, state and federal background check before I could step foot on the field. Adults need to let go of their past failures(not that I know what this guy's past is) and stop trying to correct them through their children. I agree that adults are the worst thing about youth sports, but if they would let themselves, they could be youth sports' biggest asset.
posted by PAPhinFan at 09:26 PM on October 31, 2007
The coach is a serious asshole and should never be allowed around kids in any situation. Tonight he should have to post a sign on his front door "Home of a Child Abuser". These stories just make me sick to my stomach. He is supposed to be a teacher and role model, that is what coaches at any level are supposed to be. Man, I'm glad I don't have kids. The level of child-worship here is slightly disturbing and completely beyond my reasoning capacity. Is the kid in question hurt? Need a visit to the ER? Has he developed anxiety, anorexia, or amnesia as a result? Whether you worship children or not you should be able to see that something was VERY wrong with what this coach did. Violence to atone for violence is not the answer, but at least it would be an adult vs adult confrontation at that point and not Child Abuse. He deserves a jail sentence.
posted by urall cloolis at 09:52 PM on October 31, 2007
took the words out of my mouth scuubie. well said.
posted by DudeDykstra at 10:54 PM on October 31, 2007
the man belongs in jail and should never be able to coach again in any sport what kind of example was he sending to his son this is just wrong i have to sons in football and there is a point where you draw the line on how to handle things and the beast i beast because he cant be called a man for attacking a child crossed that line and should pay for his actions and i dont think a slap on the wrist is enough we need to send a message that it is not ok for adults to attack children we put our trust in these coaches and teachers to take care of our children not to abuse them
posted by hotstewey at 02:38 AM on November 01, 2007
................................................... Here yah go stewey. Borrow a couple of mine. If your button doesn't work, you can just copy and paste with the right click on your mouse.
posted by hawkguy at 09:55 AM on November 01, 2007
Funny, but where I'm from you're not allowed to kill someone for punching your kid. People get off for a lot worse around here. For example:'Repo man' killer not charged But at the end of the day, you're still assaulting someone by the letter of the law, absolutely. But the point is, there are plenty of assaults that are never even charged, much less brought to trial and have a jury convict you. From all the comments on this forum of "if it would have been my boy...", is it really hard to believe that a DA (or even if it goes to trial 1 of 12 jurors) wouldn't side with the father in this case and say it was a reasonable reaction given the circustances? Are you willing to bet your freedom and a lot of money on that? Well I can personally say I wouldn't be considering any of that if I saw some adult slam my child to the ground. My reaction wouldn't be "I wonder what happens if I do this?"....my reaction would be "son of a bitch!" and then assholes and elbows. That instant reaction would be fairly common to a lot of fathers and is why I personally feel that the reaction would likely not even be charged.
posted by bdaddy at 11:14 AM on November 01, 2007
so right on bdaddy.
posted by irunfromclones at 11:41 AM on November 01, 2007
Man, I'm glad I don't have kids. So are we.
posted by THX-1138 at 12:12 PM on November 01, 2007
Well I can personally say I wouldn't be considering any of that if I saw some adult slam my child to the ground. My reaction wouldn't be "I wonder what happens if I do this?"....my reaction would be "son of a bitch!" and then assholes and elbows. That instant reaction would be fairly common to a lot of fathers and is why I personally feel that the reaction would likely not even be charged. So, you feel that your emotional response and subsequent assault would be a common reaction, that therefore "no jury would convict", and that knowing that, no DA would bring the case to trial. Okay, I understand your reasoning -- I just think you're incorrect. See here for the story of what happened to a sports parent who let his temper get away from him -- and this guy didn't even throw the first punch. And you think you wouldn't even get charged? I think you've got some fanciful notions about how the criminal justice system works. A DA looks at your kid with a sore neck, then looks at your hospitalized or dead victim, and isn't gonna bring charges? Come on now.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:29 PM on November 01, 2007
So are we. posted by THX-1138 WoW. What a zinger. And it only took you 23 hours. I mean, you could have taken issue with my comment right before you provided this illuminating masterpiece: "BRAZZLE FRAZZ!!! Lemme guess: Pogo? posted by lil_brown_bat at 1:36 PM CST on October 31 You had time. Anywho. My football coach once punched me in the throat and pulled me around by the face mask to demonstrate how cheap and dangerous my facemask penalty was the week before. I had a soccer coach fire kicks from 10 yards out after practice until his legs tired to teach me from ducking the ball as a member of the wall. So What? Some kid takes a cheap shot on one of his teammates in a scrimmage game, and the coach shows him how it feels. Big F-n deal. The only reason it is even a story is because the mother's description of the event is used as the basis for the report on local news. *I'm sure it was an unemotional and fair account.* All this irrational chest-thumping by the 'concerned' fathers here is just that. If they were in this exact situation, and a coach throws their buoy to the ground after taking a cheap shot, and they attack the coach; they should go to jail. And when they bond out they should go to Dick's Sporting Goods and buy some golf clubs for the lil fella. Then hire a good attorney and anger management counselor.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 02:08 PM on November 01, 2007
So, let me get this straight. It's okay for coaches to hit children, but it is not okay for parents to defend their children. The behavior you attribute to your coach (punching you in the throat) sounds like child abuse to me. If a coach can't comprehend a way to communicate with children without "showing them how it feels," then he/she should not coach children. Further, the coach in this case sounds like he simply lost his temper and wasn't trying some technique to improve the child's blocking. The only reason it is even a story is because the mother's description of the event is used as the basis for the report on local news. Where are you getting this from? The article quotes another coach describing the event as "the most frightening thing he's ever seen."
posted by bperk at 02:23 PM on November 01, 2007
See here for the story of what happened to a sports parent who let his temper get away from him two different situations. Most people didn't side with the hockey dad in that case...in fact most people were appalled by his behavior as he was the aggressor (it was more in line with what the coach did in this case than what a retaliating father would do). I think you've got some fanciful notions about how the criminal justice system works. A DA looks at your kid with a sore neck, then looks at your hospitalized or dead victim, and isn't gonna bring charges? Assaults happen every day in which nobody is ever charged. Go to your local biker bar at 2am and you'll see it first hand.
posted by bdaddy at 02:34 PM on November 01, 2007
bperk: So, let me get this straight. It's okay for coaches to hit children, but it is not okay for parents to defend their children. This has already been pointed out several times, bperk -- at that point, it's not defending your child, it's retaliation. The law sees the distinction even if some people here don't. bdaddy: two different situations. In what way? Describe how, exactly -- don't just say "Not!" Most people didn't side with the hockey dad in that case...in fact most people were appalled by his behavior as he was the aggressor (it was more in line with what the coach did in this case than what a retaliating father would do). You're wrong. The hockey dad was not the aggressor; he claimed to have been hit first, and I don't think this was ever refuted. He responded by beating his assailant to death, far beyond what could have been considered self-defense and lightyears beyond what could have been considered defense of his kid, and he went to jail for it. Assaults happen every day in which nobody is ever charged. Go to your local biker bar at 2am and you'll see it first hand. The internet is full of people who wrongly believe that they know something about fighting and its consequences. You could be one of them, or on the other hand, you could actually know of a low-life bar where someone can commit assault at 2 am in the serenest confidence that the cops will never be called and charges will never be brought. If so, I will only offer a final suggestion that you not be so unwise as to assume that you'll get that kind of free pass the next time you get your dander up at the Pop Warner game. Take the advice or leave it, it's all one to me.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:00 PM on November 01, 2007
It's okay for coaches to hit children More hyperbole from the overreaction crowd. No child was "hit". But for the vigilante argument to work the 'crime' must be exaggerated, right? One person's "push" is changed into "slam", which magically morphs into "hit" or "punch", and before you know it an act that takes place 1,749 times in a football game becomes "the most frightening thing ever seen." If it were so frightening, how come no one actually assaulted the coach? If "beating that poor bastard to the ground" is such a common and reasoned response, why was this option not taken then? Here is my guess: because the people watching this unfold didn't see a big deal until Channel 4 shows up to collect B-reel of a whinny kid and his sobbing mother. Then, as displayed here, the hyperbole hits the proverbial fan. Nothing puts asses in seats like blown-out "hurt kid stories". Otherwise intelligent, considerate, peaceful men and women become a hyper-interested irrational mob of hyenas. Parents: the most easily manipulated demographic known to mankind.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 03:11 PM on November 01, 2007
r8rh8r27- How the hell would you know about a reaction of a Parent -are you one? Manipulation is not the issue here. Common decency is, and pal you are clueless about the trials and tribulations that goes into raising a child. Until after you raised a child, you should keep to yourself and listen to somebody that's been there. Going after the coach is not the answer-legal system provides for this kind of behavior. Suggesting parents are manipulated by media, and a few comments from a reporter, is a cheap shot and demeaning to parents who try and protect them from harm and other disgusting events their bombarded with everyday. I'm sorry for this outbust but your last comment pissed me off and I'm not going to let you get away with it. If your attitude continues along these lines, do the world a favor and go childless.
posted by brickman at 03:30 PM on November 01, 2007
r8rh8r27 - I like you. You're mean and cynical and fairly absolutist. Now if you could only tell a joke or two, we might get you a t-shirt.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:32 PM on November 01, 2007
a reaction of a Parent -are you one? As stated before, no. However I did have two. And they, like you, didn't think their little baby could ever do anything wrong. Hell, they still do. Besides, I can read the outrageous opinions of parents and draw the appropriate conclusions. Going after the coach is not the answer Great. So we are in agreement? I'm not going to let you get away with it. OK. Maybe not. Is this the part where I get "beaten to the ground" for not being sensitive enough to the feelings of your rug rat? do the world a favor and go childless. We are closing in on 7 billion souls on this lonely rock of ours. In Shanghai they need triple-decker sidewalks! Therefore I will take no offence to this statement. It is advice a lot more people should heed. Thankx Weedy....I think....I wear a medium (preshrunk), large otherwise. I usually go for earthy colours. Need my mailing address? :^)
posted by r8rh8r27 at 03:51 PM on November 01, 2007
WoW. What a zinger. And it only took you 23 hours. Truth be told, the line came to me about 1/2second after I read it. I thought that it might be more prudent to step aside and let someone else have the floor. Upon returning to the site and seeing that nobody else had "gobbled the donut", I decided to commit. I would still stand by my quip. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. Your coaches sure seemed to think highly of you. Parents: the most easily manipulated demographic known to mankind. Except when someone throws off a "zinger" a bit too late for your schedule. Then it seems pretty easy to raise your hackles. I, personally, am of the mindset that it is better to utilize our legal system to exact revenge and punishment. A punch in the face you can get over. Paying me or my family restitution takes a bit longer.
posted by THX-1138 at 03:54 PM on November 01, 2007
From the story: He then allegedly attacked Mullarney, body slamming him to the turf. From r8rh8r27: More hyperbole from the overreaction crowd. No child was "hit". But for the vigilante argument to work the 'crime' must be exaggerated, right? One person's "push" is changed into "slam", which magically morphs into "hit" or "punch", and before you know it an act that takes place 1,749 times in a football game becomes "the most frightening thing ever seen." Guess it also is important to those who choose to play this off as aggressive coaching style to play this "slam" down to a "push." before you know it an act that takes place 1,749 times in a football game becomes "the most frightening thing ever seen Dude, this was not one 12-year-old hitting another 1,749 times. It was a grown man slamming a 12-year-old into the ground. If you fail to see the difference in this, I feel for your present or future kids.
posted by hawkguy at 03:56 PM on November 01, 2007
So, let me get this straight. It's okay for coaches to hit children, but it is not okay for parents to defend their children. This has already been pointed out several times, bperk -- at that point, it's not defending your child, it's retaliation. The law sees the distinction even if some people here don't. If someone is body slamming your child and you intervene and beat down that someone, that is defending your child. If that someone has finished body slamming your child and walks away, and you beat down that someone, you are retaliating. I think r8rh8r27's argument is ridiculous -- you belong in jail if you attack the coach that body slammed your child, but the coach doing the body slamming is a-okay.
posted by bperk at 04:11 PM on November 01, 2007
but the coach doing the body slamming is a-okay. On to step two I see. If hyperbole and exaggeration don't work; construct straw-men from unwritten statements. You are on a roll here, bperk. An adult "body slamming" a kid isn't "a-okay", and I never said it was. However, it isn't an act punishable by being beaten to death, either. The kid that was "allegedly" attacked isn't even hurt. That fact, in addition to the fact that no other adult was needed to stop the alleged attack, tells me the parents of the cheap-shot artist AND the LCDscreen tough guys in here are over reacting. Your coaches sure seemed to think highly of you. They still do. I get calls at least once a year from many of them. They thought enough of me to make sure I got what I deserved. Sometimes (OK, oftentimes) what I deserved was an ass-kicking. I got it. Other times I deserved the Captain's patch, a pat on the back, or a stern cussing. Got those too. Coaches are often mean and nasty because that is what it takes to teach today's preening, soft, uber sheltered children. I don't fault mine at all. My parents were smart enough to allow me into situations as a child where I could learn and grow under the tutelage of someone not blood related, and leave them alone. Someone who might or might not give a shit if my feelings (or hind quarters) got hurt momentarily. It made me a better and stronger person. Strong enough that I don't have to wait until sufficient back-up arrives before delivering from my pie hole a comment relevant to the discussion at hand......like you c3PO.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 04:56 PM on November 01, 2007
Strong enough that I don't have to wait until sufficient back-up arrives before delivering from my pie hole a comment relevant to the discussion at hand......like you c3PO. So, if I'm C3PO, with a name like r8rh8r27 does that make you a malfunctioning gob of grease? I don't know what is going on with these Astro-mech droids these days. And just who was the back up that came to my aid? Look, you don't know me and I don't know you. Aside from the fact that we seem to AGREE ON A PORTION OF THIS ISSUE, I took humbrage with your comments about being a parent, which is one of the most profound undertakings a human can engage in. You have no idea what being a parent is like. It is outside your realm of experience. I, and probably others, don't need you to insult our choice. Of course you said that my comment was: relevant to the discussion at hand so I think that means you agree with me? As for coaches being: mean and nasty because that is what it takes to teach today's preening, soft, uber sheltered children. I disagree. I think they are that way because they are dicks. You want to yell at my kid on a ballfield for a mistake, I can deal with that. You need to be stern with him if he is being stupid during practice or a game, go ahead. You feel the need to lay your hands on my kid to show him the error of his ways, get a lawyer. I have a good one myself
posted by THX-1138 at 05:26 PM on November 01, 2007
The kid that was "allegedly" attacked isn't even hurt. That is a lie, according to the information provided in the fpp. Ryan Mullarney had a bruised shoulder and a stiff neck. Several adult witnesses state the assistant coach went ballistic, throwing the 12 year old, and screaming threats. Several adult witnesses say that he picked the kid up and threw him to the ground. Ryan is 12 years old and 85 lbs. He completely slammed him to the ground, like you'd see in a wrestling ring, said Coach Brian Molnar, adding it was the most frightening thing he'd ever seen. He slammed him to the ground. Coach Molnar added that Coach Crawley said "I'm going to kill you". Sounds hurt to me, of course it's easier to make an argument when you ignore facts as presented in the article. There is only one statement in the article from Ryan's mother, and it seems quite rational and calm to me: "I don't care. That doesn't give you the right to pick my son up and throw him on the ground."
posted by tommybiden at 05:32 PM on November 01, 2007
So, if I'm C3PO, with a name like r8rh8r27 does that make you a malfunctioning gob of grease? Priceless.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:03 PM on November 01, 2007
I wear a medium (preshrunk), large otherwise. I usually go for earthy colours. When I see you walking down the street in your medium "Tough Love To Young Athletes" t-shirt, I will be the one who asks "Nice shirt, do they make them in mens sizes".
posted by urall cloolis at 06:44 PM on November 01, 2007
but the coach doing the body slamming is a-okay. On to step two I see. If hyperbole and exaggeration don't work; construct straw-men from unwritten statements. You are on a roll here, bperk. An adult "body slamming" a kid isn't "a-okay", and I never said it was. However, it isn't an act punishable by being beaten to death, either. Who is talking about anyone beating this man to death? Talk about your strawman. Sorry if you didn't mean it was a-okay, but I don't know how else to interpret your statements: Some kid takes a cheap shot on one of his teammates in a scrimmage game, and the coach shows him how it feels. Big F-n deal. The only reason it is even a story is because the mother's description of the event is used as the basis for the report on local news. *I'm sure it was an unemotional and fair account.*
posted by bperk at 07:28 PM on November 01, 2007
If someone is body slamming your child and you intervene and beat down that someone, that is defending your child. If that someone has finished body slamming your child and walks away, and you beat down that someone, you are retaliating. ...a distinction that I'm not sure all of the "if you hit my kid, I'd..." crowd here get. One individual in particular has said repeatedly that no jury would convict him for retaliating against someone who hit his kid. My point has simply been that there's a big gap between this perception and reality, and as angry as the idea of your child being hit makes parents, no, you don't get a free beat-down on someone who hit your kid, past tense. I think r8rh8r27's argument is ridiculous -- you belong in jail if you attack the coach that body slammed your child, but the coach doing the body slamming is a-okay. Last I checked, I wasn't r8rwhatever. Speak to me if you're responding to me.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:27 AM on November 02, 2007
I will be the one who asks "Nice shirt, do they make them in mens sizes". To which I will promptly recommend a low-fat diet and daily exercise. Bloated and tired is no way to go through life, big fella. So, if I'm C3PO, with a name like r8rh8r27 does that make you a malfunctioning gob of grease? Possibly. Or it could mean I am a hater of the jOakland raiders. I was just paying homage to G. Lucas, like you, thx-1138 by calling y c3po. No offence meant. Sheesh! The procreation club takes their ability to produce offspring (something I once saw dogs accomplish through a chain-link fence) too seriously. ...most profound undertakings a human can engage in Retarded monkeys can become parents. It is no more a "miracle" than eating corn and shitting kernels. it's easier to make an argument when you ignore facts as presented in the article. Kinda like how you willfully ignore: “There are several other witnesses that were on the scene at the time that are also assistant coaches that dispute that’s chronology and the scenario that happened,” or the latter part of the statement you altered before posting: "Ryan had a bruised shoulder and a sore neck, but he is okay. He even played in Saturday’s game.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 09:30 AM on November 02, 2007
Who is talking about anyone beating this man to death? Talk about your strawman. Umm, you. Heck, I'd venture to say if you beat him to death you would still get off on a "temporary insanity/crime of passion" defense posted by bperk if I'm this kid's Dad, this story would become a whole lot more interesting. (or violent) This clown needs severe punishment. and I think I would have beaten that poor bastard to the ground. Where are the pitchforks? the guy would wake up a week later wondering what the fuck hit him. Escalating the violence is when you have to wait your turn to hit the guy.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 09:44 AM on November 02, 2007
Umm, you. Heck, I'd venture to say if you beat him to death you would still get off on a "temporary insanity/crime of passion" defense posted by bperk That was bdaddy, not bperk. Very big difference. From your earlier post: Retarded monkeys can become parents. It is no more a "miracle" than eating corn and shitting kernels. There's a difference between procreating and raising a child. I share your distaste for those who worship children as all-important and who believe that the mere act of raising a child in some form makes them ultimate authorities in all matters that even peripherally relate to children. There is an unfortunate tendency in quite a few parents to believe that they are justified in acting out anytime they perceive their child to be harmed, slighted, or not given the very best of everything. I believe that this tendency should be checked. However, I also believe that many parents are correct in believing that raising a kid is one of the most important things, if not the most important thing, that they are doing with their lives. If they walk their talk, and if they understand that doing a good job of raising a kid != giving the kid everything he/she wants and teaching him/her to expect the same of the wider world, they and their endeavor are deserving of respect.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:59 AM on November 02, 2007
That was bdaddy, not bperk. Very big difference. My apologies.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 10:04 AM on November 02, 2007
r8r8r27- sorry for the out bust and diatribe about media and parents reaction. Please try to understand that being a parent is not about child worship or spoiling a child to the point that nothing else matters in the world. But understand this, when your child is being hurt or is sick, something kicks in that is hard to explain if your not a parent. Some may reason, its overprotective or coddling . OK if you want to take that opinion its all right with me, just remember your comments when and if you become a parent.
posted by brickman at 10:33 AM on November 02, 2007
Absolutely no need to apologize. Passion for anything, whether it be displayed through compassion, anger, enthusiasm... is always OK in my book. Passion for your children, which admittedly I have little patience for, is understood. I read SpoFi more often than I contribute. I usually reserve my comments for instances where my opinion is outside the norm, as demonstrated above. I expect a certain level of criticism, none of which offends me.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 10:59 AM on November 02, 2007
I will be the one who asks "Nice shirt, do they make them in mens sizes". Sorry for the bust r8r. I just couldn't resist. To which I will promptly recommend a low-fat diet and daily exercise. Bloated and tired is no way to go through life, big fella. That would be funny if I wasn't 6'1", 190 pounds, 11% bodyfat and an athlete.
posted by urall cloolis at 11:32 AM on November 02, 2007
I was just paying homage to G. Lucas, like you, thx-1138 by calling y c3po. No offence meant. Sheesh! Who said I was offended? From my point of view, we are playing a game of catch, or knocking the ball back and forth. Ball was in my court, I tossed it your way. Simple enough. I would consider myself more of a dashing Han Solo type, though. Retarded monkeys can become parents. It is no more a "miracle" than eating corn and shitting kernels. There are a number of offensive words/phrases here. You don't have to be PC but you could try to be a bit more, shall we say, civil. Unless we are going to be playing a game other than "enlightened, opposing discourse on SpoFi". Also, I don't think you can honestly compare two dogs screwing through a fence as parenting, can you? Surely you know the difference? On the most basic of levels one act takes 18 seconds and the other act takes 18 years, depending on one's level of commitment. I don't know where you can call me a child worshiper and I can't call you self-absorbed and self-serving. Try to see both sides of an issue before you start to rip a large portion of society. You're earliest statements here would seem to indicate that you did not.
posted by THX-1138 at 11:37 AM on November 02, 2007
That would be funny if I wasn't 6'1", 190 pounds, 11% bodyfat and an athlete. I'm 6'1", 190 pounds, don't know my bodyfat percentage (though 11 would seem low) and most assuredly not an athlete. But I bet we could trade clothes! So - wanna do tradesies? I have a lovely paisley v-neck that I'm sure you'd go gangbusters for. Also what's your shoe size? I've got a pair of brown leather shoes that are awesome, but are size 13 and a little big for me. I'll let you have them for a couple nice shirts. If no - then I can send pictures of all my hawt t-shirts that are great for emphasizing muscles. Of course, it depends on what you've got to trade back. I'm not in the 'giving away hawt muscle-ts for free" business.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:49 AM on November 02, 2007
Weedy- that was priceless.
posted by urall cloolis at 11:53 AM on November 02, 2007
OOh, ooh, I've got a really cool complete Star Trek original series science officers uniform complete with phaser, tricorder, and communicator. And my whole weeks lunch allowance that nobody has taken from me yet. I can't find my pimp chalice, cane, and DC's, but can we trade? I always wanted to see what it looked like if my muscles were emphasized.
posted by THX-1138 at 12:10 PM on November 02, 2007
"pimp chalice"??? This place really is an education.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:19 PM on November 02, 2007
Who said I was offended? ..... There are a number of offensive words/phrases here... Which is it? Are you easily offended or not. I can't tell. I reference another Lucas character because of your handle. Simple enough, eh? In response I am called, "a malfunctioning gob of grease" which of course receives applause from the Peanut Gallery. Now, aside from the fact that your "toss back" made little sense in relation to 'raiderhater27', it seemed to suggest you did not appreciate the reference I made. Try to see both sides of an issue before you start to rip a large portion of society. posted by THX-1138 I think they [coaches] are that way because they are dicks. posted by THX-1138 How about following your own advice... ...and I can't call you self-absorbed and self-serving. You are free to call me anything you wish. However, if you are going to call me "self-absorbed" AND make statements like, "being a parent, which is one of the most profound undertakings a human can engage in. It is outside your realm of experience.", expect to be called the same.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 12:24 PM on November 02, 2007
Do you actually read all the way through the posts, Raider hater twenty seven, or are you just winging it? I'll try to be a bit more clear about what I was attempting to say. You called me C3PO and I compared your unique handle to R2D2. You then said you meant no offence to which I replied that I took none and proceeded to explain my role in our conversation. You then made a comparison to parenting between impaired primates and the contents of one's scat using shall we say, rather colorful word use. That, I found offensive. Next up, you seem to think that I can't follow my own advice. I will have to stand by my statement that any grown man that feels it is necessary to rough up a kid as a form of correction is a dick. In this instance I will define "dick" for you as someone who lacks the ability to use rational reasoning and communication to convey his thoughts, feelings and basically get his point across and so resorts to violence. Against someone in this instance that is in no position to defend himself against his aggressor. As for the rest of you rebuttal, I said parenting is outside of your realm of experience. You have admitted that you are glad you don't have kids. Are you part of a Big Brother program? Do you baby-sit professionally? Perhaps there is an experience of yours that can discount my notion that you don't know what it is to have children. But if you can prove that being a parent isn't one of the most profound experiences a human can engage in, I shall stand corrected. Just so you don't get mixed up here, I also think that there are a number of profound experiences for humans, not just parenting, so please try to qualify your response.
posted by THX-1138 at 12:52 PM on November 02, 2007
But if you can prove that being a parent isn't one of the most profound experiences a human can engage in, I shall stand corrected. I don't really care to. A "profound experience" is something to be measured in the eye of the beholder. Wouldn't you agree? One person's "profound experience" can easily be another person's life-wrecking havoc. See: http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1005/p15s01-lifp.html http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/26/news/babies.php ..and so as not to be completely melancholy: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_22_107/ai_n15621971 Fatherhood was a profound experience for you. Great. Congratulations, really. For some people, as evidenced above, not so much. And there are plenty of people like me who haven't the slightest interest is raising children. We see far too many bad parents; parents that abuse, abandon, neglect, or spoil rotten their offspring, to believe there is some universally mesmerizing conscience awakening that follows a common biological ability granted to every animal on Earth.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 02:37 PM on November 02, 2007
There is a pretty big difference between having a child and being a parent. You guys seem to be talking about two different things.
posted by bperk at 03:51 PM on November 02, 2007
I can't find my pimp chalice, cane, and DC's I was more of a Marvel fan, to be honest.
posted by yerfatma at 04:01 PM on November 02, 2007
r8rh8r27-one other thing you need to know, I'm not talking in abstract about raising children. My youngest is 24 years old and the proud grandfather of two.
posted by brickman at 04:30 PM on November 02, 2007
My youngest is 24 years old and the proud grandfather of two. Wow your youngest must have bred young and so did his first kid. Does that make you a great grandparent? (*Sorry- I know thats not what you meant but I couldn't resist)
posted by urall cloolis at 04:52 PM on November 02, 2007
Raider hater, are you trying to be obtuse? Since having a child is a choice, I suppose "life-wrecking havoc" would be the profound experience some people choose. Profundity can be found in the negative and the positive. Since your links don't click, I don't care to see what they are all about. We, I think, are having a "four blind men and an elephant" discussion. I apologize to everyone here about the derail. Now if you will excuse me, I have to go kick some random bastard ass. Good day sir.
posted by THX-1138 at 06:09 PM on November 02, 2007
All you politically correct wussies either don't have kids, or have been brain-washed by the left-wingers to "avoid conflict". If you touch my kid, you answer to me, plain and simple. Maybe it's about time y'all turn in your man cards.
posted by LeftyPower at 02:02 AM on November 15, 2007
This person belongs in prison.