12/03/24
July 23, 2006
A Rod's sloppy defense hurting Yankees: He committed his fifth error in five games Friday night and leads the AL with 18.
posted by commander cody to baseball at 12:41 PM - 80 comments
I think it's a little early to throw him under the bus for his fielding. He is still an above average fielder for his position. One of the errors he was charged with was throwing wide to first base, and making Giambi have to leave the bag to catch it and attempt a sweep tag on the runner. He missed, so the batter was safe. Interestingly enough, the previous game Derek Jeter made the exact same mistake, causing Giambi to leave the bag and have to make a sweep tag on the runner. He connected (as it was a slower runner), so the batter was out. ARod gets an error. Jeter doesn't. But nobody wants to mention that Jeter might have screwed up... On the throw to home, Posada refused to lift his foot from home plate to take an extra step to catch the ball, even though he had enough time to do so and then step back and get the force play. So the ball sails just out of his reach, and ARod gets the error. "It's just like hitting. You go through little funks," Rodriguez said. Exactly. Time to move him to right field? Maybe DH? How about moving him back to his natural position, the one where he earned two Gold Gloves? But of course, no one wants to contemplate the idea of moving Derek "The Ball Just Gets By" Jeter... I think the Yanks need to go ahead and get him out of there. Yes, you need to trade away the reigning MVP because of a few errors. As a Jays fan, I hope they lose their collective minds and deal him out of the AL.
posted by grum@work at 01:03 PM on July 23, 2006
Jeter has a few gold gloves at short as well. The difference is that Jeter hasn't made an error in five straight games or struck out 4 times in a game recently. They need to move him because he doesn't have the right frame of mind to play in New York. He is too much of a perfectionist to play in a city that expects perfect.
posted by kidrayter2005 at 01:15 PM on July 23, 2006
On the throw to home, Posada refused to lift his foot from home plate to take an extra step to catch the ball, even though he had enough time to do so and then step back and get the force play. So the ball sails just out of his reach, and ARod gets the error. Was it a force play? I thought it wasn't. Regardless, I disagree. I think the whole arod saga is nonsense. But that's a little league throw, and he couldn't pull it off, in that instance. Seems people fall into two camps. Throw him under the bus or make excuses for him. That was a bad throw on an easy play. But it was one play.
posted by justgary at 01:21 PM on July 23, 2006
Time to move him to right field? Maybe DH? How about moving him back to his natural position, the one where he earned two Gold Gloves? But of course, no one wants to contemplate the idea of moving Derek "The Ball Just Gets By" Jeter... But that's what I'm saying grum. There is no way they're going to move Jeter, so it might be safer, defensively, to move A-Rod to right or to DH, at least until he figures out what's wrong with his infield playing. Might mean fewer errors.
posted by commander cody at 01:34 PM on July 23, 2006
Rodriguez's sloppy defense hurting Yankees. How exactly is hurting the Yanks? They won the fucking game. I'm not opposed to switching Jeter and A-rod around or putting A-rod at short, Jeter at second and trying out Cano/Cario at third. If is Philips available as an almost every day 1st baseman, Giambi as a DH, you can play around with the Cano(when healthy)/Cario/A-Rod/ Jeter infield combo. Unfortunatly the season is winding down and there may not be time for such fine tuning.
posted by HATER 187 at 01:36 PM on July 23, 2006
There is no way they're going to move Jeter, so it might be safer, defensively, to move A-Rod to right or to DH You'd actually propose moving ARod to RH or DH just so you can have Nick ".522 OPS" Green play 3B? So that would mean Andy Phillips would sit and Giambi would play 1B (if ARod DHs), therefore worsening your defence at 1B. Or, you'd play Green at 3B, and hope that ARod's "problems" aren't exacerbated by playing WAY out of position in RF. As well, you'd be forced taking playing time away from Williams/Cabrera/Crosby, all of whom hit better than Green. The reason you leave ARod at 3B is the same reason the Yankees left Jeter at SS (before the arrival of ARod): he might be a below-average fielder, but he hits so much better than average that it more than covers the problem. You'd lose the advantage of having an above average hitter at the position if you move him further to the weak end of the defensive spectrum.
posted by grum@work at 02:12 PM on July 23, 2006
Ok I can see that grum. I guess there's not much NY can do about it this late in the season. However if he doesn't figure out where his fielding went to then maybe they should be looking for another 3rd base glove during the off season to put out there and start thinking of A-Rod as future DH material sooner then they planned. 3rd base is just too important to keep a shaky glove at for any real length of time. imho
posted by commander cody at 02:33 PM on July 23, 2006
So A-Rod's getting Knoblauched (26 errors in 1999!) ? Must be all that pressure. Sad thing is, if the Yankees trade him then they'll probably win the Series the next year. A-Rod's a phenemonal player but he's out of his position, is pressing hard and its showing. Good, I like watching the Yankees lose almost as much as I like watching the Giants win.
posted by fenriq at 02:41 PM on July 23, 2006
Just to give you an idea of how silly it is to react about a small stretch of bad fielding: Brooks Robinson 4 errors in 5 games July 15 1958 to July 19 1958 April 24 1974 to April 28 1974
posted by grum@work at 02:42 PM on July 23, 2006
I do tend to agree with the theory that his offensive strengths above the average 3B make up for his defensive weaknesses, but I did want to correct this: grum: He is still an above average fielder for his position. Bzzzt. As you can see by poking at ESPN's sortable stats, he has:
- The worst fielding percentage of any 3B in MLB.
- The 2nd worst 'zone rating', a measure of the %age of balls hit to him that he actually gets to.
- 18th of 25 qualified players in range factor (putouts + assists per inning)
posted by tieguy at 03:07 PM on July 23, 2006
i was wondering what took so long to get an a-rod thread going around here. don't have too much to add to the "trade him/move him" comments as grum has done a pretty good job, as always. except that i'm pretty sure andy phillips was playing first in those examples you gave, not giambi:-) and like gary said, it wasn't a force play. posada apparently wasn't expecting the throw to go home (the infield was playing back), and froze on the bad throw. comparing this to knoblauch is ridiculous. even if he's only 8 errors away from chuck, he's no where near the kind of problems that chuck was having. this is his third year at that position. we're long past the "he's out of his position" phase. he's played a solid third before, he's perfectly capable of doing it again. i'm not sure if it's his fielding that affecting his hitting or vice versa. but once he gets on track with one of those things, i think (hope) the other will follow. on preview: yeah, tieguy, his numbers aren't that great right now. but, he's still a player that's capable of doing a lot better. and i think that's the argument against running him out of town or moving him to rf/dh.
posted by goddam at 03:11 PM on July 23, 2006
Bzzzt. As you can see by poking at ESPN's sortable stats Bzzzt. I'm talking about through his career at 3B before this season.
posted by grum@work at 03:20 PM on July 23, 2006
2005: 17th of 19 qualified MLB 3B in range factor, 18th of 19 in zone rating, 5th of 19 in fielding %age 2004: 18th of 21 qualified MLB 3B in range factor, 9th of 21 in fielding %age, 6th of 21 in zone rating So, yeah, in 2004 he was slightly above average (to be generous, ignoring range factor); in 2005 he was among the very worst in the league at his position, and he looks on pace to match that this year. He's never been substantially above average at 3B.
posted by tieguy at 03:45 PM on July 23, 2006
I'll agree to the range factor/zone rating stats, but the problem everyone is having right no is ARod's errors (throwing, specifically), and in those cases, he was above average in fielding percentage the last two years.
posted by grum@work at 04:10 PM on July 23, 2006
Hey here's a brainy idea...why not put A-Rod at FIRST BASE guys and then we can all SHUT UP about this. I mean, hey, look at the last shortstop stud to move across the diamond...he's not doing too bad over in Los Angles (I'm referring to Nomar). Plus this lets the Yankees keep Giambi at DH, the best place for him.
posted by chemwizBsquared at 04:31 PM on July 23, 2006
But then you lose either ARod or Giambi in interleague play/World Series? Thats a big minus in the lineup.
posted by jerseygirl at 04:42 PM on July 23, 2006
Thats a big minus in the lineup. yeah, but now you got nick green/miguel cairo at 3rd. that'll fill in the hole in the lineup.
posted by goddam at 05:01 PM on July 23, 2006
why not put A-Rod at FIRST BASE guys and then we can all SHUT UP about this Because he's a historically been a good defensive player with range. The answer would seem to be moving him back to SS, but that's not going to happen for some reason. Brooks Robinson started playing in 1955?!
posted by yerfatma at 05:41 PM on July 23, 2006
yeah, but now you got nick green/miguel cairo at 3rd. that'll fill in the hole in the lineup. Playing "Who is that guy? / I've never heard of him" is my favorite part of watching Yankee games. For a farm system that was "empty" you do have to give the kids credit.
posted by jerseygirl at 06:15 PM on July 23, 2006
well, this settles it. steve "i wanted to trade david wright for jose cruz jr." phillips insists that the yankees need to trade a-rod. he's also insisting that all of new york is booing him and won't give him a break, cause, you know mr. phillips is at the stadium every day. never mind the fact that it's no where near half the crowd that's booing. or the fact many of us are telling the boo-ers to shut the fuck up. i think i need to put espn on parental control and forget the password.
posted by goddam at 06:41 PM on July 23, 2006
But then you lose either ARod or Giambi in interleague play/World Series? Thats a big minus in the lineup. It was only a suggestion...besides, don't you need some kind of range at first base anyways? Albert Pujoles came up as a 3rd baseman and he plays first for the Cardinals now...so why can't this work? Otherwise, when the season ends, move A-Rod to Sheffield's spot seeing as the Yankees are probably not going to resign him... Oh yeah does it really matter...the AL is that much stronger than the NL anyways (though I will always be a NL guy)
posted by chemwizBsquared at 07:20 PM on July 23, 2006
goddam, you don't think the pressure is helping A-Rod play poorly? Just as it did to Knoblauch? Sure, different situations, different caliber of player but its New York and they would razz Mother Teresa if she booted a ball she should have caught. Once they get into your head, they're hard to get out. Just ask Pedro.
posted by fenriq at 08:37 PM on July 23, 2006
i do think that the crowd and the media are getting to a-rod right now and contributing to his poor play. that will happen to anybody. i think he's not in the same place as knoblauch, because knoblauch had personal problems to deal with at the same time (his father/mentor had alzheimer's and a messy divorce) that a-rod, to my knowledge, doesn't have right now. the pressure has been there since day one and he had a pretty good year last year, after an ok (by a-rod standards) 2004. but he carried the team through the ALDS that year and his first 3 games of the ALCS were pretty good too. so he's capable of putting up the numbers and playing a good third base in new york. what i am refuting is the notion that when he gets his shit together and plays like he knows how to, he'll still get booed, as guys like phillips have suggested. they've already written him off that he will never succeed in new york because he's had a rough year so far and doesn't have the mental makeup to deal with it. they try to back it up by saying that he was mvp last year and player of the month in may but he's still getting booed. well, being player of the month in may doesn't get the yankees to the playoffs and fans know that. there really aren't any instances that jump out at me from last year where he was booed like he has been this year. he would get mvp chants practically every time he was up. i think this all started when the press and talk radio pointed the finger at him for the Yankees inability to get out of the first round of the playoffs last year. many fans picked up on that and have been giving him shit since opening day. the rest of us know that he wasn't the only one who failed to produce in the playoffs, and without him they might not have even made the playoffs. the way to get them out of your head is to play like you're capable of. just ask giambi. fans wanted to run him out of town last year. he started to hit again and he's welcomed back with open arms. i'm not saying that there still won't be fans that don't like a-rod, but the booing will stop or at least be drowned out by cheers (there will always be mooks who will boo just to boo.) how is pedro relevant in the bronx? he gets booed because he's the enemy. the whole point is to get inside his head. and unless i'm mistaken, he's not getting booed in queens. now, beltran was booed last year, but he seems to have bounced back. it all comes down to whether a-rod can overcome whatever mental block he has. wishful thinking maybe, but i think he can. i think he's just too good of a player not to.
posted by goddam at 09:30 PM on July 23, 2006
like gary said, it wasn't a force play. Thanks goddam. That's what I thought, which is why I disagree with grums assessment of the play. Posada was preparing for the tag not to mention blocking the plate on a player running full speed. Just ask Pedro. If you're talking about the whole "who's your daddy" chant, I think it's a bad comparison. That came after pedro started having problems with the yankees. Pedro in his prime, or even on, and you can chant anything you want, it won't matter. With arod it's different because it's his home crowd. I think it will pass, like goddam said. But he could use a little thicker hide. Right now he can hit a grand slam, get a curtain call, and then strike out and be booed. He needs to forget about fickle fans. The only people who should be rooting for a trade are the fans of every team the yankees play. He's good for 40/120 just by showing up for the near and probably distant future, and he stays out of trouble and in shape. The yankee front office isn't that stupid. The only way a trade happens is if he demands it, and I don't see that happening (but anything's possible). And put me in the camp of jeter should have moved to third in the beginning. Too late now.
posted by justgary at 10:08 PM on July 23, 2006
Pedro in his prime, or even on, and you can chant anything you want, it won't matter. hell, i remember when he first went to the sox, there were some games where there were probably more people at the stadium cheering for pedro than against him.
posted by goddam at 10:22 PM on July 23, 2006
Many may argue that for the money Alex is getting paid, the fans have the right to boo him when he doesn't contribute. I disagree! New York Yankee fans have been booing ARod forever, even when he played up to his MVP potential last season. I believe this is more about Alex reaching the point were he doesn't know what else to do to please the fans in order to earn their respect, all he's lacking is the World Series, but the way they are going about it is not very motivational! I remember they did the same to Jackson before he came and hit 3 homeruns in the World Series to earn his spot in history... New York fans have a tradition of being that way, one more reason why I hate them! The treatment Alex has gotten is just not right! Yankee Fans don't deserve to have a player like Alex Rodriguez, and the team should seriously consider trading him.... I personally hope Arod keeps screwing up until they have to trade him.... and although he may not admit it publicly, some of the things he's doing may well be "intentional".... I hope it's not long until he says "I want out", goes to Boston, and helps bring 5 consecutive World Series to Beantown!
posted by zippinglou at 11:10 PM on July 23, 2006
Thanks goddam. That's what I thought, which is why I disagree with grums assessment of the play. Posada was preparing for the tag not to mention blocking the plate on a player running full speed. I double checked, and you are correct, it wasn't a force play. However, Posada was standing upright with one foot on home plate waiting for the throw and was definitely not in a position to "block the plate" if there was a need. The fact that it wasn't a force play, in my mind, means that Posada DEFINITELY needs to step away from the plate to make the catch. At that point, he'll still have to make a tag, but at least he'll have the ball and might fake out the ump (or force Hill wide on the inside). Worst case, he catches the ball and fails to make the tag, but Johnson (the batter) doesn't advance to second base. I agree it was a bad throw and deserving of an error, but Posada didn't do anything to help aleviate the problem.
posted by grum@work at 11:20 PM on July 23, 2006
New York Yankee fans have been booing ARod forever, even when he played up to his MVP potential last season. bullshit. yes, there are yankee fans that never liked a-rod and never will. just like there are fans that still don't like reggie. but yankee fans (collectively) have not been booing him forever, especially not last year (see my previous post.) i was at the stadium for quite a few games last year and he didn't get a fraction of the booing that he's getting this year. i kind of agree with steve at was watching. regarding the fans, the tide is going to eventually shift. it's already starting. pretty much every fan i know has had enough of the people who obey the talking heads on BBTN and WFAN.
posted by goddam at 12:07 AM on July 24, 2006
As much as he is hurting the team with his defensive miscues, he is naturally talented and that will come back when all is said and done. There is nothing like batting between .400 and .500 in the month of August to make everyone forget about his errors.
posted by Yankeelover at 12:27 AM on July 24, 2006
You make it sound like it's a given that he'll do that.
posted by igottheblues at 12:38 AM on July 24, 2006
I agree it was a bad throw and deserving of an error, but Posada didn't do anything to help aleviate the problem. Agreed. I'm not saying there wasn't more that posada could do, or that if he had another chance he wouldn't make the play differently. I wish I could see the play again, but if I remember correctly Arod was pretty close and threw pretty hard. The ball look like it tailed. Posada wasn't in position yet to block the plate, but he was surely thinking of it, as well as what his next play after the out would be. Arod, and most third basemen, make that play 98 out of a 100 times. Basically, posada could save the play, but it was arod who killed it. That was an easy throw with plenty of time, and I think it took posada by surprise. and although he may not admit it publicly, some of the things he's doing may well be "intentional" For someone who seems to like arod, you couldn't insult him any worse.
posted by justgary at 01:33 AM on July 24, 2006
I don't see how else he could be commiting so many errors and striking out, unless there was intent behind it. I just don't see him doing so out of an emotional breakdown from the booing, he is just fedup with everything! So yes, it is an insult to his character... but he well knows that can be the easiest way for him to be out of NY! Yes, I don't think he wants to be there any more.
posted by zippinglou at 01:42 AM on July 24, 2006
I hope it's not long until he says "I want out", goes to Boston, and helps bring 5 consecutive World Series to Beantown! I don't want him.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:53 AM on July 24, 2006
This whole discussion reminds me of the who's the best/worst bargain in baseball thread a little while back (I would have to put Arod a little closer to the worst end of the spectrum with his mediocre play and small-market team size payroll). It also reminds me how greatful I am that the Sox picked up Lowell to play 3B. Use those ESPN sortable stats on him.
posted by kyrilmitch_76 at 05:59 AM on July 24, 2006
I love Mike Lowell. The defense at third has been amazing, the hitting has (up until recently) been a godsend and his sense of humor* has made him even more fun to watch. That said, no way the Sox are a better team with him at third than A-Rod playing out of position. * In the past month he's 1.) purposely dropped an infield fly to try to get a double play and then looked over at the third base ump with a sly smile. 2.) Saturday he got beat by a swinging bunt that absolutely died in the grass (nothing he could do). When it got to him he made a point of kicking it foul before he picked it up.
posted by yerfatma at 06:12 AM on July 24, 2006
I've always liked Lowell, too. It's that damn uniform that sucks. Anyways, A-Rod will be just fine. He's pressing right now and having a bad streak. He'll break out eventually and go on a tear, and his fielding (which will also smooth out a bit) won't be such an issue. I've said it a million times, but what's one more: The guy came to the biggest stage in sports and learned to play a new, difficult position on the fly. How many superstars would willingly do what A-Rod did when he joined the Yanks, moving from the position he was best in baseball at to move to the hot corner? I know Jeter was going nowhere, but it's still a testimonial to the guy's attitude. Even though he's a superb, talented major league player, it's not like he was switching positions in a beer softball league. He'll endure some struggles. As for the people (fans?) that boo him, they're the ones looking to boo anything and everything. With them it all boils down to his money/contract. He has talent, they don't, and they can't deal with their lives because of it. Frustrated non-athletes is what they're called. As a Yankee fan, I've never had a problem with anything A-Rod has done while with the team, but he'll always be a bigger story than most of these situations would call for.
posted by dyams at 07:04 AM on July 24, 2006
* In the past month he's 1.) purposely dropped an infield fly to try to get a double play and then looked over at the third base ump with a sly smile. How can he do that? Isn't that what the infield fly rule is supposed to prevent? Is nothing sacred???
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:29 AM on July 24, 2006
Yes, he can try to do it, but the infield fly rule results in an automatic out, so it's not really gonna change anything. Anyway, A-Rod's been vilifed rather stupidly in NY. He's obviously a superior talent and great hitter. However, I don't think anyone is out of line in suggesting he's having a bad year by his standards. The defence has been abysmal (which is unexpected - it should be adequate) and the preformance at the plate is disappointing. He's not slugging as he usually does and his production has been pretty low given he hits third on a Yankee team with Damon and Jeter in front of him - both of whom have been getting on base. For whatever reason, some of the critisicm is warranted. The Yanks are winning, but his impact has been lessened. For what it's worth - it's all about the paycheque. People hate, HATE for some reason a guy making $25 million, but LOVE a guy making $18 million. If I was in NY, I don't see why I'd care.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:12 AM on July 24, 2006
He's not slugging as he usually does and his production has been pretty low given he hits third on a Yankee team with Damon and Jeter in front of him actually, he's hitting cleanup, and i think that's a (small) part of the problem. especially with no sheff or matsui in the lineup to protect him. i'm not making excuses, i'm just saying he's not seeing the pitches he would see if someone other than posada was hitting behind him. torre needs to move a-rod from the cleanup spot while he's in this slump. maybe move him after damon. he always hit better when he was second anyways.
posted by goddam at 08:41 AM on July 24, 2006
Yes, he can try to do it, but the infield fly rule results in an automatic out, so it's not really gonna change anything. It doesn't change that there's an out; what it's supposed to do (if I understand it right) is prevent the fielding term from turning an easy out into a can't-miss double play against which the batting team has no defense.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:48 AM on July 24, 2006
It's still amazing to me, though, how many major league players continue to be confused with the "Infield Fly" rule. Lowell dropping the ball, even though the batter is out, could result in a runner having a brain cramp and attempting to leave his base. It's not that bad a play.
posted by dyams at 08:57 AM on July 24, 2006
Oops, I left out an important detail: he didn't get away with it. It was after the third base ump informed him that he looked over with his impish grin, like, "Can't blame a guy for trying."
posted by yerfatma at 09:00 AM on July 24, 2006
LBB...please send you're explanation of the rule to every little league umpire you can find. I have argued this at least 4 times in the last couple of years. I'm amazed at how many times this rule is missed or misunderstood at lower levels. But anyway, A-rod will be fine. I'd hate to see this referred to as the curse of the A-rod in 80 yrs if they should trade him.
posted by louisville_slugger at 09:43 AM on July 24, 2006
It doesn't change that there's an out; what it's supposed to do (if I understand it right) is prevent the fielding term from turning an easy out into a can't-miss double play against which the batting team has no defense. Exactly, so if an infield fly is more of a line-drive, or if the infield fly rule is undeclared by the ump (on a pop-up typically the ump will immediately signal the batter out before the ball is caught) then a smart infielder can drop the ball, either through fakery or by letting it bounce, and get a guaranteed double play. It's like the fake throw to third, turn and throw to first - you're not fooling anybody 99% of the time, but, hey, no harm in trying.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:03 AM on July 24, 2006
A-Rod will get his game sorted out, eventually. If its not with the Yankees then so much the better. But there's zero chance he's going to the Red Sox, zippinglou. (I could have sworn I posted this comment last night, darned deja vu). justgary, the Pedro reference might not be totally appropriate but I was using it to demonstrate that the fans can get into someone's head.
posted by fenriq at 10:04 AM on July 24, 2006
But there's zero chance he's going to the Red Sox, zippinglou. Exactamundo. I really wanted him when Boston was about to trade for him, but since then, there's something about his personality I don't dig. Is he an upgrade over Lowell or anyone at third? Likely. I do love Mike Lowell though. Pleasantly surprised. But as far as Rodriguez, I just feel like he tries too hard, to the point where he's coming off as phony. And in hindsight, not making the ARod move probably worked out for the best anyway that year for Boston.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:56 AM on July 24, 2006
I really wanted him when Boston was about to trade for him, but since then, there's something about his personality I don't dig. It probably has to do with the uniform he is currently wearing. Every single piece of media about Arod's slump has included quotes from him about how he knows he's having problems right now, but he'll come around. He hasn't bashed his teammates, the fans, the media or tried to make excuses. He's just about the most boring interview for a dirt-digging reporter you can find.
posted by grum@work at 12:14 PM on July 24, 2006
I don't know grum. I've tried to seperate the pinstripes from the equation. It's not bashing, really, its just an insincerity I get from him. Everyone is a "good friend" of his. He's certainly getting more press in NY, so maybe that's why it corresponded with his joining the Yankees.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:24 PM on July 24, 2006
Yerfatma didn't give all the details. I guess there's an easy presumption that the infield fly rule would apply, but it's not necessarily true -- the IFR only goes into effect with runners on 1st and 2nd or the bases loaded. It would not go into effect if there is only a runner on first. On a short humpback with a slow runner at the plate, Lowell could let the ball drop in hopes that he can still turn two. He's not allowed to do that -- there is an "intentionally dropped fly ball" rule that applies if, in the umps judgement, an infielder allowed an easy fly ball to fall for his benefit. I'm guessing that's what happened, since it sounds like the ump ruled specifically against Lowell's actions (I don't believe the "intentionally dropped fly ball" rule applies when the IFR has already been called, but I could be wrong -- where's elovrich when I need him?). Many may argue that for the money Alex is getting paid, the fans have the right to boo him when he doesn't contribute. I would say it has less to do with what A-Rod is making and more to do with what the Yankee fans are paying to go to the park. I don't care if you're the reigning MVP or Kris Wilson, if you are hurting the team with your play, you are going to hear it from a passionate and vocal fan base that pays through the nose to see a high-quality product. I see nothing wrong with that at all. As for the fans loving a guy who makes $18 mil and hating a guy who makes $25, that is, I believe, strictly a count-the-rings issue. That goes pretty far, but not too far -- I've even heard Mariano Rivera get booed at Yankee Stadium.
posted by BullpenPro at 12:40 PM on July 24, 2006
Move him to short, to DH to first or left....it does not matter. I have it on solid word that Arod has been offered a job in the beverage distribution business. I can not say where my information comes from but it is a national source that you would recognize.
posted by Termite at 12:47 PM on July 24, 2006
I don't know grum. I've tried to seperate the pinstripes from the equation. It's not bashing, really, its just an insincerity I get from him. Everyone is a "good friend" of his. I'm neither a fan of the Yanks or Red Sox, and I think ARod is a phony, too. He takes himself way too seriously. I just want to tell him to relax. Doesn't he know that he plays a game for a living?
posted by bperk at 12:58 PM on July 24, 2006
Move him to short? If he can't field at 3rd, a move to short won't improve the situation. Move him to 1st? Maybe ... my 6 year old daughter fields better than Giambi. Why not let him pitch?
posted by cixelsyd at 01:01 PM on July 24, 2006
As a Yanks fan, the bottom line that everyone is over looking is that Arod is a head case. Told the entire public during spring training that he is in therapy. His wife is a shrink. The guys got issues. He will come out of thsis slump and will carry us the rest of the way, but to assume moving him from 3rd and DH is pathetic guys. Got forbid move him to short. Thats Jeters turf, and AROD does not diserve to play short. He can handle third just fine. He is the most gifted player in the game and stays healthy every season. He will always have Arod type numbers at the end of the season but it means nothing when he cant come through on a consistent basis in clutch situations. He had one great playoff series against the Twins for the Yanks but then shit the bed in the 4 game come back by the BoSox and shit the bed last year against the Angels. Everyone played poorly but as the so called best player in the league, it just does not cut it, especially in New York. Arod said he only came to New York to win a World Series. "No Shit Arod. join the club". This guy only cares about himself. If you read any Yanks article it is always about him. He talks and talks and talks. Notice every comment Jeter makes to reporters is usually one sentence. Same as Posada, Bernie, and Mo. Those guys are winners and there is a reason. They go out there and play. They hit, they field, they compete. The problem is that AROD wants what Jeter has so bad that he cant handle it. AROD could not hold Jeters jock strap. 4 world series, World Series MVP in 1999, two last straight Gold Gloves in 04 and 05. Plays in the field that will go down in history,(Oakland relay to home, catch in the stands that AROD could not get to) Clutch HR's in the World series in extra innings. Jeter is the man in New York, period. AROD will never compare in the minds of the fans. Jeter goes down as one of the greatest Yankees to every put on the pinstripes. AROD could go down as the same over the next 8 seasons in NY if he delivers a World Series as well as break Hank Aarons HR record if he stays healthy. The guy is as talented and capable as it gets. It is all mental.
posted by Eddie66 at 01:06 PM on July 24, 2006
I am so sick of Yankee fans proping Jeter up. If he played on any other team he would be considered an average shortstop. as for A-Rod he needs to get out of NY. Come to Chicago , Cub fans will love you.
posted by Cubfan276 at 01:42 PM on July 24, 2006
If he played on any other team he would be considered an average shortstop Heh. Yeah. An average shortstop who happened to make it to 450 home runs faster than anyone in the history of the game. I mean, I think the guy is a mediocre defensive third-baseman (has been for years, the past few weeks are just a blip on the graph), but if you think any other aspect of his game is mediocre, you're pretty much out of your mind. (He might still be overpaid, but that is a different question.)
posted by tieguy at 01:51 PM on July 24, 2006
Told the entire public during spring training that he is in therapy. His wife is a shrink. The guys got issues. Sounds like he might be a fag, too! Therapy! In this day and age. Where are the leeches?
posted by yerfatma at 01:52 PM on July 24, 2006
justgary, the Pedro reference might not be totally appropriate but I was using it to demonstrate that the fans can get into someone's head. posted by fenriq Oh, I don't disagree, especially in the case of arod, who at least seems to be pretty fragile mentally. I'm just saying that in cases of extreme talent, such as arod or pedro, the effect of booing and chanting is going to be minimal. They're going to break out of the slump, unless there's something very wrong mentally or physically. It probably has to do with the uniform he is currently wearing. I can see beyond the uniform. I'd welcome him to the red sox. But he'd never be a player I really cared about, or would pay to see. And it has nothing to do with the fact that he has not "bashed his teammates, the fans, the media or tried to make excuses." The same could be said for Mike Lowell, and like yerfatma I find him infinitely more interesting.
posted by justgary at 01:54 PM on July 24, 2006
Sounds like he might be a fag, too! Therapy! In this day and age. Where are the leeches? posted by yerfatma at 1:52 PM CDT on July 24 Thanks. That just got me a "What are you laughing at?" thrown over the cubicle wall.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:56 PM on July 24, 2006
tieguy , I didnt say A-Rod was an average player, I was talking about Jeter. I think A-Rod is a hell of a player. If he came to the Cubs he could go back to his natural position of SS.
posted by Cubfan276 at 01:58 PM on July 24, 2006
I am so sick of Yankee fans proping Jeter up. If he played on any other team he would be considered an average shortstop. I'm sick of Yankee haters trying to bash his play. Jeter's batted .314 for his career while anchoring a team at the heart of the infield. He's got four World Series Championship rings and has played in 6 WS in 11 seasons, many having to share the infield with different faces at second, and for a long while, third. The guy's consistent, steady, and while not always spectacular, he's had his share of tremendous plays over the years. All this while being captain of the craziest team in the wildest city. So he plays for the Yankees, big deal. The Cubs have money, too, play in a huge market, but can't quite seem to figure the game out.
posted by dyams at 02:33 PM on July 24, 2006
cubfan: my apology. You're totally, 100%, completely right about Jeter.
posted by tieguy at 02:39 PM on July 24, 2006
Sounds like he might be a fag, too! Therapy! In this day and age. Where are the leeches? fatty - yet again, you're the man. I'm sick of Yankee haters trying to bash his play. Absolutely - he's going to go into the HoF if he keeps it up for five more years. Frankly, the out-of-NY bashing of Jeter it's as ridiculous as the in-NY bashing of A-Rod.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:48 PM on July 24, 2006
As for the people (fans?) that boo him, they're the ones looking to boo anything and everything. With them it all boils down to his money/contract. He has talent, they don't, and they can't deal with their lives because of it. Frustrated non-athletes is what they're called. Or maybe they just see arod turn a routine play (three times) into an error and boo. I mean come on, people who boo can't deal with their own lives? Nonsense. All this while being captain of the craziest team in the wildest city. The city maybe wild, but craziest team? In fact, it's the exact opposite. The current yankees are held up as ultimate professionals. Arod, Jeter, Rivera, Matsui, damon cut his hair...crazy? The Cubs have money, too, play in a huge market, but can't quite seem to figure the game out. Having money and spending money are two different things. 1 New York Yankees $194,663,079 2 Boston Red Sox $120,099,824 7 Chicago Cubs $94,424,499
posted by justgary at 02:57 PM on July 24, 2006
Frankly, the out-of-NY bashing of Jeter it's as ridiculous as the in-NY bashing of A-Rod. Let's get a little meta- here. I am as guilty of anyone of "bashing" Jeter a while back. However, it wasn't really Jeter I was bashing, it was the over-the-top praise (especially for his fielding) that I was bashing. I've gotten over it. I fully recognize Jeter as one of the top 15 shortstops in major league history, and I definitely think he'll slide into the top 10 (talent-wise) before his career is done. I'd be the first one to vote him in to the HOF, and cheer the whole time. He's almost exactly what the HOF was built for: talent, plus personality, plus historic moments. But don't expect me to praise his fielding (pre-2004) or accept the idea that he's "the best ever".
posted by grum@work at 03:05 PM on July 24, 2006
it's all about the paycheque. People hate, HATE for some reason a guy making $25 million, but LOVE a guy making $18 million If that's all it was, then they should love A-Rod. Yankees are only paying him about $15-16 million per year; Texas Rangers have to pay the rest ($9-10 million per year) in order to get rid of him.
posted by graymatters at 03:06 PM on July 24, 2006
But don't expect me to praise his fielding (pre-2004) or accept the idea that he's "the best ever". Agreed. And after watching him this weekend it is all the more clear. He takes care of what he gets to - but his movement to his right is terrible. There were a couple RBI singles by the Jays that were gettable. At the plate though - the ultimate professional and team hitter. He's very situational - to score, count, pitcher and inning. Nothing, it seems, is forgotten. If that's all it was, then they should love A-Rod. Yankees are only paying him about $15-16 million per year; Texas Rangers have to pay the rest ($9-10 million per year) in order to get rid of him. Even more makes the point. It's not even what the Yankees are specifically paying him - it's what he is making that rankles. People just plumb don't think he's worth it and it clouds all other discussion about him.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:27 PM on July 24, 2006
He's not allowed to do that -- there is an "intentionally dropped fly ball" rule that applies if, in the umps judgement, an infielder allowed an easy fly ball to fall for his benefit. Somewhat related -- I've always wondered whether a good outfielder with excellent hand-eye coordination could purposefully bobble a deep, soft fly ball with a runner on third and catch the runner leaving early (on the anticipated time of the catch) and get him out at third for not tagging up. I suppose this is highly unlikely for a few reasons, not least of which are that the risk of dropping the ball is too great for any outfielder to be ballsy enough to try it and the fact that the runner might have time to get back to the bag if the third base coach is alert to what is going on (although it could still potentially keep the run from scoring). (Hell, maybe third base coaches are trained to really watch the ball into the glove and this is all moot unless one is napping.) But it would be interesting and may work with the frequency of the hidden ball trick, which, incidentally, I believe Mike Lowell is the last major leaguer to pull off successfully (the last two, IIRC).
posted by holden at 04:56 PM on July 24, 2006
Holden, you can tag up legally as soon as the fielder touches the ball whether he bobbles it or not.
posted by tron7 at 05:56 PM on July 24, 2006
Thanks tron7. I suppose that's why I've never seen the play.
posted by holden at 06:34 PM on July 24, 2006
I am so sick of Yankee fans proping Jeter up. If he played on any other team he would be considered an average shortstop. posted by Cubfan276 at 1:42 PM CDT on July 24 All things considered, he's better than Ernie Banks. End of the seventh. A-Rod is 2 for 4 with a double, a run scored, and a RBI. No errors. Rumors of his demise, utterly penetrable sensitivity, and transformation into Chuck Knoblauch may have been exaggerated.
posted by BullpenPro at 08:47 PM on July 24, 2006
transformation into Chuck Knoblauch Go wash your mouth out with soap.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:40 PM on July 24, 2006
Told the entire public during spring training that he is in therapy. His wife is a shrink. The guys got issues.
Sounds like he might be a fag, too! Therapy! In this day and age. Where are the leeches?
posted by yerfatma at 1:52 PM CDT on July 24
You just sounded so much like Ozzy Guillen.... Are you sure you're not him?
posted by zippinglou at 11:17 PM on July 24, 2006
Would people be saying all of this crap about A-Rod if they didn't expect him to be perfect? I think not! When was the last time any one who posted comments here was perfect? Trade A-rod? You have to be kidding!
posted by ayankeefan at 11:35 PM on July 24, 2006
Would people be saying all of this crap about A-Rod if they didn't expect him to be perfect? Yes.
posted by justgary at 12:30 AM on July 25, 2006
You just sounded so much like Ozzy Guillen Crazy, but thats how it goes Millions of writers spitting out prose Maybe its not too late To get in a soundbite 'Bout the guys that I hate Mariotti's got "feelings" Selig is the same I'm running off at the mouth 'bout this crazy game Nomar's no beaner And A-Rod's a poof I've had it with Garner And his ballpark's damn roof I won the Series 'cause I sold my soul This city has lost it now I'm in control Yeah, Dusty is my bitch now Barrett is so lame I'm running off at the mouth 'bout this crazy game I know that people are misquoting me You can't just listen to my words Yeh-h (Dude, this is the best part... he bites off the head of a pitcher... RAWK) I ended the Cold War. I swallowed my gum. Composing an opera. I'm secretly grum. Crazy? Step into my lair. I'm living with Elvis and Smokey the Bear. Therapy's not working And there's Tigers to tame I'm running off at the mouth 'bout this crazy game (No repeat. Fade.)
posted by BullpenPro at 01:34 AM on July 25, 2006
You just sounded so much like Ozzy Guillen Just for the record, it's "Ozzie," and the main difference between him and yerfatma is fatty's understanding of, and ability to use, sarcasm, whereas Ozzie is just a dipshit.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:36 AM on July 25, 2006
That was beautiful, BPP.
posted by bperk at 09:40 AM on July 25, 2006
I use to cheer Chuck Knoblock as Rookie of the year. I booed Chuck Knoblock when he Snubbed the Twins and went to the Yankees. I was Saddened by the way he left baseball. I "knew" Chuck Knoblock, and A-Rod is no Chuck Knoblock!!!!! This whole "Slump" thing is really stupid. 75% of the story has been "pumped up" by the media. Most teams would love to have a "struggling A-Rod" on thier team!.
posted by daddisamm at 02:28 PM on July 25, 2006
Pretty much a knee jerk reaction to temporary difficulties, I agree.
posted by mjkredliner at 11:20 AM on July 26, 2006
I think the Yanks need to go ahead and get him out of there. A-Rod is a top notch player when he isn't beating himself up for messing up. The only problem with getting rid of him is finding a team with the kind of payroll for him. Possibly the Orioles for Tejada? Something to watch I think.