May 21, 2006

For the record, the only bandwagon pertaining to Bonds that I was on was the "I'm not sucking up to the media" bandwagon. I've always admired that. Everything else I don't really like. Pujols, on the other hand, I've always liked. The man is just tremendous! He has been on a tear since he came into the Bigs, and without any controversy surrounding him. By the way -- furnaceman787, please turn your caps lock off. You're making everyone think that you're shouting. Thanks...

posted by wingnut4life at 09:02 AM on May 21, 2006

I'm sorry, has Barry failed a test I didn't hear about? I know he probally wont either. I'm happy he finally got it over with. Has anyone else noticed that Clemans is coming back about 50 games into the season? What is the punishment for first time offenders? Maybe Selig should have told him to take up basketball for a while.

posted by seansterps at 09:28 AM on May 21, 2006

I think Pujols is the best hitter in baseball, but I predict he will end up with only about 60 home runs and 130 RBI. I just think eventually teams will wise up to it and not pitch to him. It's not like the Cardinals have a hugely formidable line-up this year.

posted by holden at 10:03 AM on May 21, 2006

EVERYBODY WAS ON THE BONDS BAND WAGON UNTIL THIS YEAR What planet are you from, San Francisco? Barry is the most reviled player in his sport, maybe in ALL of sport. Albert Pujols might smash many records before he hangs up his spikes. We have never seen a player accomplish what he has in his first 5 years in the league. I thought this was a good article as well. Quite a contrast to Barry's selfish image.

posted by mjkredliner at 10:50 AM on May 21, 2006

It's not like the Cardinals have a hugely formidable line-up this year. Not home run formidable, but they're all pretty good hitters. Fortunately, baseball's not always won through home runs. Whenever I hear talk of Bonds, I think of the Bob and Tom radio show where they mentioned that there was a charity event which would allow ticket purchasers to spend a guaranteed 5 minute chance to talk with each celebrity there, including Barry. They "joked" that the rest of the Giants were going to buy the tickets so that he'd talk to them. Go Cards.

posted by Thisguy at 11:26 AM on May 21, 2006

Bonds is a punk. Always has been and always will be. Now he's a steroid pumped punk. He and Mcgwire should be run out of baseball along with jr. punk Sosa. Pujols not only plays the game well he takes care of his fans. The guy is doing it right. The Babe did it on beer and hotdogs. As for a formidable line up....oh yeah...Edmunds and Rolan are light weights too..lol

posted by budman13 at 11:40 AM on May 21, 2006

HammerStorm, OK, so I looked up his rookie stats. He was drafted right out of high school in 98. In 99 he was 6-3 and weighed 225. According to his current bio on MLB.com he is 6-3 and weighs 225. Great work inspector clouseau. You've broken the story of the year.

posted by smithnyiu at 12:02 PM on May 21, 2006

I'll agree than Bonds has become the whipping-boy for the steroid era, but.... ...the "I'm not sucking up to the media" bandwagon"... Sucking up to the media? Do you realize these are grown men playing a game? They have an obligation to tell the fans about that game. It isn't sucking up to the media, it's part of their jobs. As for people not liking Bonds, here's an excerpt from a book that gives some alleged examples of Bonds behavior. I don't "hate" Bonds, but i do get quite irritated when he squirts crocodile tears and hides behind his race. I'd like to see him visit North Philadelphia or any other inner city and tell kids about how tough prep school was because he was black.

posted by SummersEve at 12:39 PM on May 21, 2006

Pujols is amazing. I wish that I could take back my draft when i could have taken him over A-Rod. But i have 2 god 1st basemen already. Delgado and Thome!

posted by cpl1337 at 02:10 PM on May 21, 2006

Thisguy wrote: Not home run formidable, but they're all pretty good hitters. Fortunately, baseball's not always won through home runs. budman13 wrote: As for a formidable line up....oh yeah...Edmunds and Rolan are light weights too..lol Cardinals are a pretty middle of the pack offense this year -- they are 9 out of 16 NL teams in OPS, although 6 out of 16 in runs scored. As opposed to the past few years where they had Todd Walker and Reggie Sanders and a productive Jim Edmonds (who is only hitting .252/.346/.410 this year), Pujols and Rolen are really the only two scary hitters in this line-up. Instead, the Cardinals are getting it done with pitching, as they lead the NL in staff ERA this year.

posted by holden at 02:37 PM on May 21, 2006

Uh, that was Larry Walker, holden.

posted by mjkredliner at 03:22 PM on May 21, 2006

Pujols is the one hitter I'd pay money to watch hit. He won me over after the hr off of lidge last year. I think its fascinating that Pujols stood up for Bonds and Bonds has stood up for Pujols. Well, what he actually said was: "He's probably made some mistakes, but give the guy a break". His standing up for him was basically "yeah, he probably did it, but lay off the guy". Damning praise.

posted by justgary at 03:39 PM on May 21, 2006

sprman92,different players, different eras,always makes for debates,would mays&mantle be as good today, compared back then? or even ruth? ted williams? joltin joe? the players today are bigger,faster,stronger..how would they do, back in the 50's? now.. that's a scary thought.

posted by ktown at 03:47 PM on May 21, 2006

u know what i hear about Babe Ruth being the greatest player of all time what a joke. I think that alot of people forget the greatness of Willie Mays or the consistency of Hank Aaron. Which one of those guys were the best left-handed pitcher of their generation?

posted by yerfatma at 05:00 PM on May 21, 2006

Which one of those guys were the best left-handed pitcher of their generation? Yerfatma, I'm so tired of the, "but Babe was a great pitcher," thing. We're talking about great everyday players. Sure, Babe was a great pitcher but we're not comparing anybody with the pitching part of his career. Babe as a hitter and Babe as a pitcher were two seperate things. Would mays&mantle be as good today, compared back then? or even ruth? ted williams? joltin joe? the players today are bigger,faster,stronger..how would they do, back in the 50's? now.. that's a scary thought. ktown, Ted Williams would be just as good as he was back then. You have to remember, the pitching level is actually dilluted now because there are so many teams (expansion has greatly diminished the quality of pitching rotations as compared to those days). As for the rest of those guys, I think they would've done pretty well in today's game. You can make the argument that they wouldn't be used to the travel and such but remember, today's players don't have to play a night game and then endure a train ride all night before playing a doubleheader starting at noon the next day. So this comparing eras goes both ways.

posted by donnnnychris at 06:07 PM on May 21, 2006

It should be fun to see the Cards play against the Giants next week. If Pujols and Bonds are actually pitched to, we should see some amazing hits.

posted by redsoxrgay at 07:36 PM on May 21, 2006

My prediction for Pujols: 63 home runs, 145 RBI's, .336 average

posted by wdminott at 10:22 PM on May 21, 2006

My personal guess for Pujols is a Ramirez-like RBI year with around 165 and 63-65 home runs. His average will be around .320, but really, with all those home runs and RBIs, who really cares about the average?

posted by donnnnychris at 02:20 AM on May 22, 2006

Providing stock answers at the end of a game about effort, chances and having to play better isn't really part of their job. We let them get away with stock answers, but their talking to us is mandatory if they want to keep doing what they're doing. It may seem like they don't have to talk to the media, but if they try to play games in a vacuum then they won't be playing it for long... At least not at the level of money they're making.

posted by SummersEve at 07:03 AM on May 22, 2006

We let them get away with stock answers, but their talking to us is mandatory if they want to keep doing what they're doing. It may seem like they don't have to talk to the media, but if they try to play games in a vacuum then they won't be playing it for long... At least not at the level of money they're making. Sorry, I don't believe that if A-rod stopped talking to the media that the Yankees would release him, or offer him less than market value. That's ridiculous. The Yankees pay him to play baseball. Plus, there a lot of players who don't have any part of the media circus; everyone outside of the top 5 or 6 players on every team. They aren't being chased by the media and it's not part of their job; it's the media who make it seem like not talking to them is the hugest crime ever because, well, it hurts their business.

posted by dfleming at 08:40 AM on May 22, 2006

One player here or there isn't going to make a difference, and teams will always make someone available. But trust me, if the Yankees as a whole stopped talking to the media, there would be a backlash and it wouldn't just be from the media. The media are the connection to the fan. Some abuse that and muckrake but that's the nature of the biz. I really do think if teams and entire sports stopped talking they would fade away. Otherwise, why would they be talking to the media now?

posted by SummersEve at 09:52 AM on May 22, 2006

Write on SummersEve! Barry Bonds has never failed a drug test. Is that fact escaping everyone. I am really wondering why his accomplishments makes him so vulnerable. Cannot we not believe in greatness anymore? Ty Cobb was a butthole superior but was still a great player. Aaron is one of the greatest hitters of all time, has displayed admirable character yet he was still attacked in various ways and circles on his chase to 714. Maybe (714) is the curse of the Bambino, Baseball and America. Babe was reportedly Black also...(Ty Cobb called him the n word often) said he was passing. This whole questioning of Barry Bonds the attack on Aaron causes me to wonder if there is not something deeper here that needs our attention. Our own character as human beings and the continue denial of the racial issues that still exist in baseball and America. Bonds is playing a game period and he has proven to be the best of his era streroids are not. No one else besides Ruth has done what he has done. Some people consider hot dogs steroids have you seen the ingrediants. I would not let my kids eat them.

posted by Sputnik at 10:46 AM on May 22, 2006

Bonds is a great hitter. If he is juiced he most likely would not have hit as many HR's as he has. That has not been proven so I'll reserve judgement. His ***hole attitude though is one of the reasons people hate him also. Most interviews I've seen with him he just comes off as a real jerk. That includes before any ofthe Balco allegations came out. Bonds does not compare with Aaron in my eyes because of that more than anything. Aaron showed nothing but class when he was completely unjustly attacked in his pursuit. Bonds just comes off as a jerk regardless of whether he is guilty of steroids or not.

posted by scottypup at 12:44 PM on May 22, 2006

Actually, I don't believe Bonds has ever admitted using steroids, knowingly or unknowingly. He admitted to using something clear which he was told was flaxseed oil and he admitted to using some cream -- both given to him by his trainer. The prosecutor contends that those items met the description of the cream and the clear. That is not an admission to unknowingly using steroids. I know it is splitting hairs, but I think it is a distinction that is worth mentioning.

posted by bperk at 01:28 PM on May 22, 2006

And if Albert breaks the single season record, so much the better, I've got him on three fantasy league teams! Oh yeah, rub it in...

posted by wingnut4life at 02:23 PM on May 22, 2006

My comment wasn't to debate whether Bonds actually used steroids or not. I was debating your statement that " bonds claims he wasn't aware that it was steroids he was taking." Bonds admits that Anderson gave him something which Bonds used. Neither he nor Anderson said he got it from BALCO. Presumably, Anderson, as a personal trainer, could shop at GNC or any other nutritional store. Any number of perfectly legal substances come in a cream form or are clear. From your link: "To the prosecutors, the substances Bonds said he was using sounded like "the cream" and "the clear," two steroids designed to be undetectable in laboratory testing that Victor Conte, founder of BALCO, is accused of marketing to elite athletes, sometimes with Anderson as middleman. " All that to say that regardless of whether you believe Bonds used steroids, Bonds never claimed that he unknowingly used steroids. Bonds can derail any thread, especially when he is referenced in the FPP.

posted by bperk at 03:15 PM on May 22, 2006

Ok. Given in another thread you say Ted Williams would be better now than he was in the 40s due to the diluted pitching talent (which ignores the fact the pool is no longer just white guys from the US), how would Ruth do, given he's the all-time OPS leader? Ruth would do just fine in this era. It's not like the pitchers are throwing any harder now, so most of the great hitters would be great no matter what era they played in. Sure, you have relief pitching to factor in (something that was nearly non-existent back in Ruth's era) but at the same time, like I've said before, this era's players have a cushy travel life compared to the train travel of past eras. So everything equals out in that sense.

posted by donnnnychris at 05:47 PM on May 22, 2006

What was it flaxseed oil? What did he think? Magical healing properties? No I'm going in all lubed up. and the Klear will help me see the rotation of the ball. Got that, Hey he will never cry like Mark McGuire, never ever, what a man. Mark swears off using Androstenedione in 1999. what a man. These guys, and i do mean Barry too, Make baseball look like big time wrestling. What a farce, nobody cares but those that say OH MY GOD HE TIED BABE RUTH hes the greatest. Well he didn't flunk a test. HA HA , ya maybe he did and standard operating procedure is just to lie to everybody to protect their own interests and positions.

posted by westbranch at 05:58 PM on May 22, 2006

To say that Bonds' situation is devoid of racist overtones is being naive. If you can point out where I said Bonds' situation is devoid of racist overtones I will eat this computer. I understand that there are people who don't like Bonds' quest because they are racist but I think they are far from the majority. Many people on this site have voiced their displeasure for Bonds but I highly doubt they are all racist. Bonds is on a quest to break what can be said as baseball's most hallowed record. He has become the poster boy for the steroid controversy and when people see him breaking the record, they see steroids breaking it as well. The underlying issue with Bonds is not racism, its steroids. It is hard to say what would be happening if McGwire had been in Bonds' shoes because it is unclear what evidence would be brought to light. Would there be people who would not have as much of a problem with it because it was a white guy? Yes, but not the majority of the people who are upset now because they would still be upset for the same reason, that being steroids.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:26 PM on May 22, 2006

Ying Yang Mafia, The thing is, the only real "hard" evidence on Bonds is a book that was written by two sportswriters, a group that famously loathes Bonds. McGwire, while sometimes prickly, had a much better relationship with the media and my guess is a book of this nature would've never been published about Big Red. So there's the difference, I guess, in what I'm saying. The media seems more inclined to go on a witch hunt with Bonds than they would with McGwire.

posted by donnnnychris at 02:44 AM on May 23, 2006

Sad works for me.

posted by holden at 10:53 AM on May 23, 2006

Ying Yang Mafia, It was different times because the media didn't WANT to believe McGwire was doing anything wrong. The difference is the media smells blood now and is going for it, and all the better it's that a-hole Bonds (at least in their minds, meaning the media). There was so much that was passed over during McGwire's 70-HR season that it isn't even funny. The media just flat didn't report on anything because they didn't want to break this image of the big strapping savior of baseball. If Bonds had been the one challenging Maris' record first the media would've been questioning him hard and my guess is the steroid scandal would've broke sooner because the media would've been more critical of Bonds. So anyway, look like we agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for the give and take.

posted by donnnnychris at 09:19 PM on May 23, 2006

but then the word got out that big mac was using..he promptly retired Actually, it was "and then his knees/ankles/feet fell apart completely and he could barely walk to first base...he promptly retired" As for the Palmeiro/Sosa/Canseco/Bonds/McGwire comparison, I don't think racism has much to do with it. Palmeiro - got caught in a drug test, so it's hard to avoid that brouhaha Sosa - previously was embarrassed by corked bat, then stats plummeted during seasons when steroid testing was implemented (may be coincidental, but most people don't see it that way) Canseco - a general ne'er-do-well character (various criminal charges), plus an admission of steroid use Bonds - generally unliked character (in the media) means more effort by them to "break" him McGwire - transformed himself from grumpy man to media darling during HR chase, retired JUST before steroid problem exploded (so he's not in the news 6 days out of 7) I think the real litmus test of the proposed "racial" bias would be to see how they would react if someone like Roger Clemens had more than accusations leveled at him about steroids. He isn't well loved by the media, has a sure-fire hall of fame career in baseball, and has had "statistical revival" in the later portion of his career, much the same way as Bonds.

posted by grum@work at 11:54 AM on May 24, 2006