11/05/24
February 04, 2006
There's no excuse for teams to pass on black coaches: When it comes to hiring black head coaches, the NFL stands for No Fair-hiring League. What a disgrace.
If there was ever any proof of that, it has been this offseason. With 10 head-coaching vacancies -- the Oakland Raiders job is still open -- and the feeling that owners were looking for new blood, not retreads, many believed two or three new African-American coaches would be hired. Instead, blacks were shut out. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
There are two ways to look at this:
- There are 32 teams in the NFL. From the US Census in 2000 , 12.9% of the population is considered Black or African-American (in whole or in part). Based on that racial breakdown, it means there should be 4.13 head coaches in the NFL (rounded down to 4). Currently, there are 4 head coaches in the NFL, so that seems about right.
- Head coaches are not just picked straight out of the national population. A large number of them (85%?) are chosen from the pool of previous players, of which a much greater number than 12.9% are Black/African-American. So 4 seems like an awfully low number of black head coaches from previous player pools.
posted by grum@work at 03:28 PM on February 04, 2006
Four? Dennis Green, Herman Edwards, Tony Dungy, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Romeo Crennell... am I forgetting anyone?
posted by chicobangs at 03:35 PM on February 04, 2006
Dennis Green, Herman Edwards, Tony Dungy, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Romeo Crennell... am I forgetting anyone? Busted! I drew a blank on Lewis and Crennell. I got lazy and didn't do the research I should have.
posted by grum@work at 03:37 PM on February 04, 2006
There are two ways to look at this: I have had the same thought many times when this issue has been brought up. The truth is certainly somewhere in between your two theories, probably leaning toward the second. I would be interested in seeing a demographic breakdown of current coaches (including, of course, the new ones) with regard to race, player or non-player, college head coach or not (when hired), former NFL head coach or not (when last hired), former NFL assistant coach or not (when last hired), and, just for kicks, whether or not they graduated from college (just curious to know if the employment practices of the NFL mirror those of some of the "real world" companies where non-college-grad resumes hit the can on arrival). Grum, I don't suppose, in your broad quiver of excellent databases, you have one with that kind of info? If you don't, perhaps I'll do some leg work.
posted by BullpenPro at 04:14 PM on February 04, 2006
I think that there should be more African-American coaches because there have been so many great players who were African-American who hold down assistant and coordinator jobs. There are many African-Americans who could coach better then some white coaches. I think that African-American coaches would have an advantage because they get an edge with African-American players who respect that he is a head coach and who want to play for him.
posted by Clevelander32 at 04:36 PM on February 04, 2006
There are 32 teams in the NFL. From the US Census in 2000 , 12.9% of the population is considered Black or African-American ... Sixty-five percent of players in the NFL are black, according to one account I read. I'm guessing that 65 percent of the new coaches being hired as assistants after their playing careers end aren't black.
posted by rcade at 05:00 PM on February 04, 2006
rcade has it. In the pool of assistants and coordinators that all this new blood came from this year is where the lack of black coaches were. The railing about the lack of black head coaches is really misguided, I have always thought. The effort should be toward getting more young black coaches on staffs. If they were in those ranks to choose from the number of black head coaches would probably go up greatly without a word from anyone.
posted by pivo at 05:06 PM on February 04, 2006
The one factor that no one seems to bring up is great player does not transfer into great coach. Two different jobs, and tasks that go with it.
posted by volfire at 05:39 PM on February 04, 2006
Has any team offered any excuses as to why they don't hire a black coach?What about being competitive? Would you not want the best and most competitive coach avalialble?
posted by volfire at 05:45 PM on February 04, 2006
For the most part I agree with rcade, however, I don't think that it is as black and white as that (no pun). For example, not everyone in their chosen field wants to go into management. For every player that doesn't go into coaching there are players who go into other parts of the sport (televison, radio, scouting, front office, etc). I don't have the numbers that tell me what percentage of assistant coaches, position coaches, radio, etc. are minorities. Black former players seem to be well represented in television on the pre-game shows, for what it's worth. chicobangs: I think you have neglected to factor in Chad's (and other player's) injuries into the equation. Herm might have had better records the last 2 seasons had he had his first-round QB and a healthy team. On preview: volfire has a point too, and it is somewhat like mine above that not all player even want to go into management. Or those who do (black, white, other) may not have the skills. I'd like to see former players who want to coach do something like they do in european soccer, where the players study to become a manager. They get their coaching badges and then they pay their dues at the lower levels. Some get to the top quicker than others, but they all have to have some training. It wouldbe harder to deny minority coaches if they could show they had passed all the requirements to be a coach.
posted by scully at 05:46 PM on February 04, 2006
Terrapin, I agree on the badges but there's a distinct lack of lower levels for American football. Unless you're talking about the 49ers and Browns. (I keed, I keed!) I think there doesn't need to be an exact match on population or former player levels but we do need to see more oppportunities. I think overall the NFL is doing a lot better than ten years ago, despite falling down a bit this off-season, but the NCAA is a serious failure. Colleges need to answer questions like why Fitz Hill and Doug Williams do not have major head coaching positions.
posted by billsaysthis at 05:54 PM on February 04, 2006
The ratio will never match the general population, the NFL statistical population or a simplified racial demographic. The NFL is a business. The owners don't give a damn about the color, ethnicity, height or whether the potential coach has long hair or is bald. The owners care about revenue. They care about who watches their games in the stands and on TV. The number of people watching their games is based on wins. The owners will hire a black bald woman with tatoos if she can consistantly win 10-12 games a year and get a few wins in the playoffs. All of the fuss about this is foolishness. If you want more coaches of a different racial mix than currently in the NFL, buy yourself a team and hire whomever you wish based on a criteria other than winning football games. It's not that complex, folks.
posted by Delphititan at 06:34 PM on February 04, 2006
The Lions just hired Rod Marinelli, an intense, defense-oriented guy. They could have hired Mike Singletary, also an intense, defense-oriented guy. Marinelli may have more experience, but at the place the Lions are now, I'm not sure how much experience counts vs. the ability to turn a team around by developing a winning attitude. Singletary will hopefully be a head coach in the near future, somewhere.
posted by philly54 at 06:45 PM on February 04, 2006
This isn't about giving people something. Nobody is looking for coach welfare. It's about equal opportunity. The only reason the NFL, once 100 percent white, is now 75 percent black is because there's an equal playing field. The guy who plays and performs the best gets the gig. It just isn't that way in coaching. Rob Barker is looking for 'coach welfare' and just because the players are mostly a certain race doesn't mean now the coaches should automatically be so just because. That sounds like a hand-out not a hand-up. It is Bob's rhetoric and he should admit it in his article. Maybe Rob should come up with some stats on what types of people applied for the head coach positions and their qualifications. No Rob would rather talk BS. If there is some sort of discrimination I suggest to anybody to get an attorney and sue for injunction, until there's some evidence Rob is all Blow. Rob Barker is just playing up the race card, he should be ashamed of himself. Barker suggests there is some sort of conspiracy in the NFL among the team owners and the League- he should be embarassed to say such things.
posted by T$PORT4lawschool at 06:58 PM on February 04, 2006
I don't think you should be hired or even considered just on the premise you are black. The best candidates should be interviewed on their qualifications from a football standpoint not a race standpoint. There are some coach's (black or white) that will never make it as a head coach but the black ones are interviewed just so that a team can fill a quota. Too bad.
posted by chucodimebag at 08:14 PM on February 04, 2006
Interview the BEST candidates, white, black, asian or alien...hire the best OR who you want to hire.......PERIOD!
posted by LiveWithIt at 08:17 PM on February 04, 2006
To say a coach was or wasn't hired based on race is a cop-out. Football is about winning, for those who don't win there will always be excuses. And if you use race as an excuse than the media will be all over it.
posted by ggermanctl@sbcglobal at 09:04 PM on February 04, 2006
ggermanctl put it perfectly. Why do people need excuses when they fail? Owners/Gms have reasons they don't hire certain people, and most likely, it isnt because of race. Playing the "race card" is just an excuse to get your name out and be the center of attention.
posted by charles at 10:47 PM on February 04, 2006
Racism will continue to be a problem until race stops being an issue- As in the day when a coach is hired by a team, as opposed to a black coach, and everyone regardless of skin color fills out the 'race' question on their paperwork with the word human.
posted by don-peyote at 11:26 PM on February 04, 2006
I think too much attention gets put on the whole "race" issue. And the media of course does not help. Why can't they be referred to as "he's one of the best quarterbacks" or "one of the great coaches"? Instead they are referred to as "best black quarterbacks" or "great black coaches". Why must they be singled out based on their race? I've not heard anyone say "Bill Parcells has been one of the league's elite white coaches", or "Joe Montana was a premier white quarterback". I mean if you're good, you're good, regardless of race. I watched a Chris Rock special on HBO tonight, and he said it best. He wouldn't want to be given a job (not like he needs it anyway!) or be accepted into a university if he's less qualified just because he's black. Of course these are just my opinions and what I believe. If the teams are sitting there saying "well, he's black, I don't want him"...well then yes that's wrong. I honestly don't think that's the case. Pro sports is all about winning, revenue, fan base, championships, etc. It's all business. The more you win, the more fans you get, the more people come to games, the more merchandise gets sold nationwide, which obviously results in more money for your business. Teams are going to hire the person they think is going to get them there, regardless of color (at least I believe that, they should be anyway). I just find it near impossible to believe that in these days, and as big a business as the NFL is, that anyone would say "well...he's definitely got the most potential to improve this franchise, he's definitely the most qualified...buuut, he's black, so, we're gonna pass on him". And the flip side to that, I don't think it would be right to say "he's not as qualified, I'm not so sure he's got enough experience to get this team moving in the right direction...but he's black so we should hire him to keep the media off of our backs". Like I said...you should get the job if you are the best candidate...black, white, asian, mexican, etc. etc. I think that African-American coaches would have an advantage because they get an edge with African-American players who respect that he is a head coach and who want to play for him I don't agree with this either. Players play to win, regardless of who the coach is. It's just too much really...I mean if it's an issue about black coaches/management, and all about fairness, are we to say "well, teams should be half white and half black players". NOOOO!!! Or, you must have one asian person, or one latino person? NOOO!!! Ok I'll end it, sorry this was so long...but it's my first ever post and I got carried away a bit here!!!
posted by Griff23Jordan at 04:06 AM on February 05, 2006
Black people put themselves in the spot by constantly making everything a race issue. When will they grow out of that? --> Stop using race as arguments to get ahead.... 6 coaches you say? Seems they are being considered.... If I'm an owner, spending millions on a team, I want the best coach available... the least I would focus on is the color of the skin. --Respect is not gained from the players because you are a black coach (bogus comment).
posted by zippinglou at 04:06 AM on February 05, 2006
Black people put themselves in the spot by constantly making everything a race issue. When will they grow out of that? I suppose when I move out of the United States or stop having to deal with idiots.
posted by rdr at 04:34 AM on February 05, 2006
Teams in the NFL look for the best coaches, or the coaches that most fit their team's philosophy to lead their team. Most of the time it doesn't matter if they are white or black, it is how good they are. Look at when Millen got fined for not interviewing minoritys when he hired Marriucci so fast. It wasn't because he hates black people, it was because he felt Marriucci was the best guy for the job, so he wanted to hire him fast. It is about time the USA stops making everything a race issue. Slavery was bad, but they've made up for it. Continuing to bitch about not enough black coaches just shows that their is still racism their, why not just treat them like everyone else (like they should be treated) and not keep absurd stats like the amount of minority coaches.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:19 AM on February 05, 2006
Millen, in another show of stupidity, asked a black to interview for the coaching job when Mooch was hired, ostensibly to cover his ass as Millen already wanted Mariucci for the job. Millen passed on Singletary, the one available guy who could probably bring the Lions together. Marinelli may end up as a fine head coach, but I doubt it will be with the Lions, who need leadership that they can rally around and unify them right now instead of an experienced disciplinarian.
posted by roberts at 06:33 AM on February 05, 2006
It seems to me that there's not enough white players being hired. There is a disproportionate amount of black players in the league compared to white players, asian players and hispanic players. This racism is out of control, what is the players union doing about this, I think they are racists, too. Why is this issue never about racism but about black people only. Oh wait, it could just be that decisions are being made because of talent and what's best for the team and race is not even an issue to anyone except those without talent that play the race card to disguise their lack of skills and talent.
posted by Familyman at 06:50 AM on February 05, 2006
I cannot believe what the NFL has become, bitching about how many black coaches there are? C'mon people
posted by sixshot84 at 06:53 AM on February 05, 2006
Thank you, familyman, couldn't have said it better myself. That's my question, entirely: Why is it always OK in any sport for the majority of the players (especially the NBA) to be black? Why is that never called racist hiring? Because no one ever questions that blacks make great professional athletes. So if the majority of good coaches happen to be white, why does that suddenly become racism?
posted by robslob at 08:00 AM on February 05, 2006
Anyone ever seen a white kid wearing a jersey with a black guys name on it?I don't really believe its a skin color issue until someone plays the card. Does anyone care that the black players going to college are walking away virtually haveing learned nothing but go to college and pass on their athletic ability? There is a study out there somewere.
posted by volfire at 08:20 AM on February 05, 2006
There is also a difference between being a crowd-pleasing-because-you-walk-with-the-ball-and-score player and being a good player. But that belongs in a basketball discussion. Familyman hit the nail directly where it must be hit, but it won't have any effect. I'd myself just like to see players refer to themselves as an American, rather than a (color-inserted-here) American. If you want to be an ethnic-American, then go back where your ancestors were from to play in the Olympics, too. This racism crapola is way past realistic, and we have our media to thank for it.
posted by mrhockey at 08:31 AM on February 05, 2006
You're all so right. Black people are to blame for marginalizing themselves and keeping themselves out of the Assistant and Coordinator jobs that serve as training for head coaching jobs. It's their own fault, isn't it? Jesus Shaft Christ, people, do you really believe this shit, or are you all just trying to out-troll each other? I love how threads like this bring out whiners who complain that the white man never gets an even break. They don't exactly hold American Idol style searches for new coaches. People hire who they know, and since white guys are (still) doing the hiring, they tend to hire their own kind. I don't know if you noticed (Detroit, I'm looking at you), but that practice doesn't seem to be working. The talent pool gets stale, and there's no need for that to happen. Maybe a greater effort could be expended to cast the net a little wider. They might find some better coaches that way. The article plays the race card in the wrong place, but that doesn't mean it isn't there, or that this isn't an important discussion.
posted by chicobangs at 10:11 AM on February 05, 2006
The Maxim: Those who can....DO, those who can't.....TEACH, applies here. Now what I want to know is where are all the red-headed, freckle-faced, cross-dressing Indian candidates. Ridiculous aint' it.
posted by kosmicdebris at 10:32 AM on February 05, 2006
Now what I want to know is where are all the red-headed, freckle-faced, cross-dressing Indian candidates. Ridiculous aint' it. Point to the qualified ones trying to get a job and not getting it and you might have a point.
posted by justgary at 10:43 AM on February 05, 2006
Who would be a candidate? Black or Red-Headed Put some names out there of those qualified and discuss that. Otherwise they are making a reality show for you to watch where blacks and whites change places which will give you some real racial things to discuss.
posted by brothersgrim at 11:25 AM on February 05, 2006
The only thing left for this thread is one of the trolls to use the phrase "There aren't that many black coaches because they can't handle the thinking positions in sports." race is not even an issue to anyone except those without talent that play the race card to disguise their lack of skills and talent. No, race is not even an issue to anyone who has never been marginalized, discriminated or belittled because of their race. Basically, it's not an issue to people like myself: a heterosexual, white, able-bodied, middle-class, non-religious, male. Unless you've actually faced any real discrimination, I don't see how you can say that other people are over-reacting to perceived discrimination. After preview: Just reading Sasquatch12154's comment should remind everyone of why racial discrimination isn't a non-issue.
posted by grum@work at 11:26 AM on February 05, 2006
Then why are cities like Chicago and Detroit forced to hire unqualified minorities, and still can't fill the bill? Black people are'nt appliing for jobs. How many white guys are out there that have heard the line "Hey you look great, but I have to hire a minority"?
posted by volfire at 11:52 AM on February 05, 2006
I always find it sad how a thread like this starts out fine, with good debate, and then falls apart when the neanderthals decide to show up.
posted by justgary at 11:54 AM on February 05, 2006
And Chico, are you really serious? Rich people stay rich because they make good BUSINESS decisions. You don't make and keep a multi-million dollar franchise by making poor business decision, or by hiring un-qualified people. America better wake up quick, cause this country is in real trouble. Everyday you pick up the paper there are more THOUSANDS laid off and with out work.Where are those people going to go? The job market is becoming more and more competitive. You have to have your shit together to get the job, period, or they will just hire the next guy. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN!
posted by volfire at 12:10 PM on February 05, 2006
Hey grum work, im not the one makin race an issue, get your facts together. To me, you hire who you feel is best fit to do the job, shouldnt have to hire to meet a "quota" And yes, the blacks are complaining about not enough black head coaches, sorta sounds like they want it all to me.
posted by Sasquatch12154 at 12:17 PM on February 05, 2006
What just constitutes a neandethal? Sounds kind of racist to me. Are you picking on people of lesser intellegence.
posted by volfire at 12:19 PM on February 05, 2006
Stop yelling, volfire. I can hear you fine. I'm not going to get into the greater social issue with you, this being a sports site and all, but here's two questions: When did Detroit hire a minority, qualified or not? I missed that. And Chicago's "minority hire" was well-qualified, and he seems to be working out fine. Who exactly "couldn't fit the bill?" Without actually naming specific examples, you're just shooting your mouth off. And Sasquatch, you're not getting any of the irony in your own posts, are you? You're "not the one making race an issue," but it "sorta sounds like [the blacks] want it all to me." "The blacks?"
posted by chicobangs at 12:21 PM on February 05, 2006
Actually I was talking about the everyday average joe. Not just a high priced football coach. But the again the Bears really kicked ass in the post season, didn't they? Not just to shoot my mouth off.
posted by volfire at 12:26 PM on February 05, 2006
And all the coaches listed in the article had exceptional seasons, but could not get past the play-offs. Tony dungy gets the pass because of his personal loss of his son. Not just to shoot my mouth off, again.
posted by volfire at 12:52 PM on February 05, 2006
True, they didn't get the the Super Bowl this year, and neither did Marty Schottenheimer, or Bill Parcells, or Jim Mora or Jack Del Rio or Andy Reid or Jon Gruden or Joe Gibbs or even Belichick The Great. So?
posted by chicobangs at 01:04 PM on February 05, 2006
I'd myself just like to see players refer to themselves as an American, rather than a (color-inserted-here) American. Couldn't have said it better myself.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:14 PM on February 05, 2006
Before I was promoted, the position I now hold was always filled either from the current management pool or from outside the company. I got promoted and took my team from last to first within two years, and it was like the light went on in my company. "What? Non-management to management and it worked? This is do-able?" The question before us is, "Is the light on yet in the NFL?" A winning team can happen when a commitment is made to a new QB or coach but the owners don't always take chances-they hire the tried-and-proven. Who does that leave out? Also, sometimes old beliefs stay in hiding even from ourselves and when it is time to hire, the old beliefs come back to the surface. Maybe their internal picture of what a head coach is doesn't include a dark skin (something akin to dealing with inter-racial dating). Is the light on yet? I'm not sure.
posted by DallasRules at 02:27 PM on February 05, 2006
I went to a race debate and a sports discussion broke out.
posted by Folkways at 02:32 PM on February 05, 2006
sad, just sad to have a racial debate here. We are all members of the human race. Love comes in ALL colors. We should all just love each other. Thats what God expects of all of us. Saying that and it being so though are two different things. But let us all work on trying to make it so. Saying there is no racism now though seems to me to be wishful thinking. but as long as racism exists means we all must strive to love one another even more. Someday God will make this so. But until he does, let us all continue to love one another even if someone else isn't doing so.
posted by dkern at 02:33 PM on February 05, 2006
We are all members of the human race. Love comes in ALL colors. We should all just love each other. There's a John Lennon song in there somewhere, and one I happen to like. Immensely.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 02:42 PM on February 05, 2006
If it is a Black and white issue, and about 65% of Americans are white, then why are there not more white players? No I don't believe there really is a racial problem. The the level that we are talking about, and the amount of money that is being made by the owners, they will hire whoever they think will get the job done and put people in the stands.
posted by captgully at 03:44 PM on February 05, 2006
Funny I just glanced over and I didn't see one Jimmy " the Greek" referance, I'm getting old.
posted by chucodimebag at 03:57 PM on February 05, 2006
Can't imagine why RZA used to throw shitfits around here. Keep talking about what "the black" do while the rich people you fete continue screwing both of you indiscriminately.
posted by yerfatma at 04:16 PM on February 05, 2006
Black people put themselves in the spot by constantly making everything a race issue. When will they grow out of that?
I suppose when I move out of the United States or stop having to deal with idiots. So, where would you move to? I'm curious!
posted by zippinglou at 05:36 PM on February 05, 2006
Does anyone care that the black players going to college are walking away virtually haveing learned nothing but go to college and pass on their athletic ability Wow. Let me get this straight. All black athletes in college are learning virtually nothing? And all black athletes who have graduated, learned nothing? So you're saying that the deans of these college's are giving away degrees to black athletes? Funny thing is, if you look at a few big schools, the majority of the deans are white. So even if this absurd statement were true, who's fault would it be? Chicobangs, you have made to many accurate statements for me to list them all. So I'll just say that I agree with you entirely. Quit the G** damn whinin, 65-70% of the Negro Football League is black!! If i own the team, i hire who i want, case closed. Then we have the Negro Basketball Asc. Gimme gimme gimme Why use the term "negro". Nobody really uses that term anymore. If you wanted to say "n*gg*r", why not say it? You certainly were not attempting to be politically correct. Were you afraid that someone might mistake you for a racist? And yes, the blacks are complaining about not enough black head coaches, sorta sounds like they want it all to me. So you're saying that "the blacks" want to be not only players, but coaches and owners as well. Just like "the whites". This implies that "the white's have it all", thus making the arguement for "the blacks". Are you reading what you're writing?
posted by BlogZilla at 07:58 PM on February 05, 2006
it seems that when race is spoken on in any circle there becomes a when will they grow out of it comment and we get sensitive. Compromising the truth for friendship is fake! The only difference in running,chucking, and entertaing now instead of in slavery is there is payment to do it! One race likes to see the other do things more than there own. Now to be very straight with my fellow sports junkies.The head coach position is the cream of the crop! Then the qb,rb,wr etc. Dennis Green came to the NFL as the Affir.Action coach to ease the drama. His record in college was nothing.Doug Williams was called the most intelligent QB they had seen. He had to go to the SWAC to get a job.Playmakers fill up the seats not coaches.So called black and white players are on the field to do specific things, thats it!Most owners do not think the black man can CONTROL a team,only play on it.All of the players in this league past and present and no black owners!!!What white owner will entrust his bread and butter in a black mans hands wholeheartedly like J. Jones did J.Johnson, complete control?
posted by AASR-AF&AM at 08:04 PM on February 05, 2006
no one really looks at the money made world wide on sports as to the players salary.
posted by AASR-AF&AM at 08:09 PM on February 05, 2006
well said Dallas!!!
posted by AASR-AF&AM at 08:11 PM on February 05, 2006
Mrhockey your point is well taken sir! Please understand that everyone in this country has a nationality!A cat in an oven does not turn into a biscuit.A German Shepard has an identity because you know it when you see it.Ask an Asian born here what his nationality is and see what he says. We were GIVEN the term African-American from negro,colored,Ethiopian,Black and every other name not of the truth.No Harm No Foul!We can only speak what we know from information and not emotion!
posted by AASR-AF&AM at 08:22 PM on February 05, 2006
So, where would you move to? I'm curious! I'm not sure. I've lived in Mexico and the Netherlands. Both countries are having problems with race and diversity but in both places I still felt as if I breathe a lot easier without having to inhale the toxic cloud of american racism. If I had the money and the freedom right now I think I'd move to Spain.
posted by rdr at 09:02 PM on February 05, 2006
So whos moven I'm curious also where are you goin. If I moved I would go to Missorie because I got family ther and my family Rocks!!!Were a funny family but a wierd family.
posted by melssa at 09:16 PM on February 05, 2006
What white owner will entrust his bread and butter in a black mans hands wholeheartedly like J. Jones did J.Johnson, complete control? Well...how about... Mike Brown.
posted by tselson at 09:28 PM on February 05, 2006
The Steelers just won the Super Bowl with a white coach and a black MVP...Hines Ward... it isn't what color you are.. it's how qualified you are for the job. It should be that and nothing else. It's too bad that color has to figure into everything... the best BLACK or the (which you never hear) best WHITE whatever shouldn't matter. It's the best at the position, no matter what. Yea, I know...I dream.
posted by steelergirl at 10:29 PM on February 05, 2006
if i own a multi-million dollar company, i hire the most qualified person as well as the one i can work best with.it is my company therefore my choice.fair or unfair it is not the place of the public or the press to tell me how to best run my company, end of story.(green bay being the exception)
posted by mxmstr1029 at 12:16 AM on February 06, 2006
I'd move to Spain.
Spain is one of the most racist countries I know.... emphasis on the words "I know". I lived there 3 years, and they do not like foreigners..... Mexico has very few white people, mostly are natives, some are "mestizos" mixed between the native-blacks-whites.... I would say race is less of an issue there, but insecurity is mad crazy- kidnappings are going through the roof....
posted by zippinglou at 08:58 AM on February 06, 2006
There is not just one qualified person for a head coaching position. There are many. There is also not generally one "most qualified" person either. So, a lot of judgments come into play. And out of these judgments a defensive line coach, someone who has coached in the NFL for three years, the OCs of a 4-12 team and a 6-10 team, and a QB coach get jobs. Why on earth are we supposed to believe that these guys were more qualified than Ron Rivera or Mike Singletary or any of the other coordinators with years of experience? Hiring head coaches is a crapshoot. And, in that environment, GMs hire guys that they know, that they "clicked" with, in essence, guys that are like themselves. It doesn't have to be a racist conspiracy to have a result that, in fact, makes it much more difficult for a qualified black coach to have no chance at a head coaching position. And, that is the problem facing the NFL now.
posted by bperk at 09:37 AM on February 06, 2006
It's exactly rhis type of thinking that gets me going ! Why in the world do we have to keep count? Is there some unwritten QUOTA system that i don't know about? Let's look at Talent and not quotas!
posted by Yankeetogo at 07:25 PM on February 06, 2006
Yes, yes, fantastic, insightful point. The numbers suggest black players don't get a fair shake at becoming coaches and you're complaining about quotas.
posted by yerfatma at 07:31 PM on February 06, 2006
The numbers suggest black players don't get a fair shake at becoming coaches and you're complaining about quotas To damn funny. Yankeetogo may not be a yank at all. Some peoples kid's, why i outta.........
posted by BlogZilla at 02:11 PM on February 07, 2006
Quaotas are nuts. Maybe we should have basketball teams picked according to the makeup of their perspective schools. I do not think so the best should play, and the best should coach color should not matter. When was the last time an NFL team was fined for not interviewing a white coach?
posted by gdritsas at 05:00 PM on February 07, 2006
When was the last time a NFL team hired a coach without interviewing a white coach?
posted by bperk at 08:45 AM on February 08, 2006
After hiring a black coach. NEVER, and if the black coach is qualified and is the coach the team wants. Who cares
posted by gdritsas at 05:13 PM on February 08, 2006
NEVER, and if the black coach is qualified and is the coach the team wants. Who cares Whens the last time there was a black/non-white/female president? Let me guess....who cares right?
posted by BlogZilla at 06:42 PM on February 12, 2006
Okay. There's one corollary that goes against that hypothesis: Herman Edwards. I really like the guy, but his won-lost record has been fair-to-middling at best, his clock management skills are only so-so, and he took a Jets team that's been a legitimate contender for the last three years and come up a whole lot of short. And he got stolen by the Chiefs while still under contract. That's how much they wanted him. I'm not saying there isn't a racism problem in the front offices of the NFL. (Just because there are a half-dozen head coaches in the league now doesn't change that.) What I am saying is that the lack of new blood is more a symptom of the old-boys go-with-the-proven-entity-over-the-talented-newcomer problem than it is a race issue.