11/05/24
December 02, 2005
2005 Bears as good as 20 years ago?: The 2005 Bears who have simply dominated on the defensive side of the ball this season, have impressed fans and the NFL alike. But do there players such as Tommie Harris, Brian Urlacher, and Jerry Azumah...do man say these players compare to the dominating defense of 1985 with Mike Singletary, Otis Wilson, Dan Hampton, and Richart Dent, and Dave Duerson Will these Bears get as far in playoff contention as the Midway Monsters did in '85 though? hmm....only time will tell.
posted by Lionsfan20 to football at 10:55 AM - 48 comments
Uh...no. I don't there's ever been a defense that compares to the '85 Bears.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 11:01 AM on December 02, 2005
Nope, first of all Singletary was the ONLY Singletary. The Monsters were also good enough to run a 46 and get enough pressure on QBs to not get killed playing 1 Deep. Of course the arguement could be made that the Defensive MVP was Walter Payton. That Offense ate yards and time off the clock leaving the D to rest. Jimmy Mc wasn't bad that year and Fast Willie Gault stretched the opposing D to give Sweetness room to run.
posted by Wrigley South at 11:08 AM on December 02, 2005
I thought so to0 - but appraently statistically, this one does. Of course I was 8 in 1985, so what the hell do I know. Swing dancing - that's what I know.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:08 AM on December 02, 2005
And McSmokin' the McWeedy it would seem
posted by Wrigley South at 11:11 AM on December 02, 2005
What Desert Dog said.
posted by chicobangs at 11:15 AM on December 02, 2005
No, they don't compare. This year's Bears are playing in a horrible division, and granted, their division has always been mediocre, at best. But the '85 Bears had an offense that can't be ignored, too, let by Jim McMahon and, of course, the fantastic Walter Payton (RIP). The '85 Bears defense had future Hall of Famers and are mentioned as possibly the best of ALL TIME! This year's edition has a really nice unit that is playing well despite not having any offense. For that reason I am impressed.
posted by dyams at 11:17 AM on December 02, 2005
Walter Payton. One hell of a running back. They say he could military press 400 pounds. 400 POUNDS! No wonder guys would just bounce off of him. chico actually agreed with something I said. Holy crap! I printed this page for proof. You can't deny it, chico. And don't say it was a typo, either.
posted by Desert Dog at 11:23 AM on December 02, 2005
A more appropo question would be to compare the '05 Monsters to the '02 (Super Bowl season?) Ravens. At this point I would say the Ravens.
posted by Wrigley South at 11:24 AM on December 02, 2005
If they ('05 Bears) win a Super Bowl we can revisit the question.
posted by dyams at 11:30 AM on December 02, 2005
Of course the arguement could be made that the Defensive MVP was Walter Payton That is exactly why I think this team could be right there. Offense and defense feed off each other and this 2005 offense is trying to starve the defense. Look at the T.O.P., Bears rank 24th with a 29:14 average. This defense is good and has been good for a couple of years. The biggest thing is health. When guys stay healthy things stay more consistent as people know how to read each other better. You stop being one man of an 11 man unit and become a unit. On a similar tangent. Say what you want about their division but look around the league before flying off the handle on things like win streak and so forth. Cincinnati has not beaten a team over 500 (chicago was under at the time of their game). Carolina had beaten bottom feeders during their 6 game streak (Jets, Detroit and Arizona). Indy has wins against the Texans (twice), STL (without Bulger), SF, Cleveland Tennessee and Baltimore.
posted by timdawg at 11:34 AM on December 02, 2005
Okay, gentlemen, another scenario: Da '85 Bears, they don't make it, the plane is delayed.. and the only one who shows up is Ditka. Ditka vs. Da '05 Bears. Okay, score, gentlemen. Alright, after da heart attack, I gotta say Ditka 17, '05 Bears 14. He just barely gets by.
posted by cl at 11:46 AM on December 02, 2005
Chill, man: it's the appro-po!
posted by yerfatma at 11:54 AM on December 02, 2005
As far as this years version of Bears D vs. '85 I have to say '85 was unbelievable and one of the greatest that ever put on pads (at least in my lifetime). With that being said, this Bears D has faster overall team speed and, God knows, they have to have better indurance due to the fact the thing they call an offense doesn't exactly play ball control. I have to say the corners are a bit better than '85 too. Peanut shows some flashes but they are in between him getting toasted deep. The linebacking core in '85 are all HOFers in my book. Wilson, Marshall and, of course, Samurai. But Urlacher is one of the fastest SOBs I've ever seen. This years D is awesome, but like dyams said, only time will tell if they are one of the best.
posted by willthrill72 at 12:00 PM on December 02, 2005
I would much rather watch the 85 Bears, though. It's good the 05's are doing good seeing as how they raised ticket prices across the board and the price of beer from $6 to $6.50 this year. The commies. Also, Ditka does win, wearing his suit and no helmet.
posted by timdawg at 12:02 PM on December 02, 2005
Statistically, the '05 Bears are doing better, but they definitely lack the aura of the '85 team. That team dominated for more than just 1985, so it isn't really fair to compare them yet. Comparing the defenses is one thing, but the whole team? Forget it, it's not even close. The '85 Bears had Walter Payton, Jim McMahon and Willie Gault. The current version hasn't had a touchdown drive longer than 10 yards in the last 9 quarters, and has gotten as many breaks as their baseball team did a couple of months ago.
posted by TheQatarian at 12:10 PM on December 02, 2005
Pat Kirwan makes a living writing about football and I don't, so I hesitate to sneer at him for this conjecture. Hell, the man has to write something interesting to satisfy his editor by deadline. But, admittedly casual NFL fan that I am, I'm having a terrible time seeing the validity for comparison based on his writeup. The only concrete comparison I see him making is how many points per game the two defenses allow. Is that really enough to tell whether there's a valid comparison? What about first downs, or yards per game, or interceptions and sacks? Forced fumbles? Points on turnovers? Completion percentage? What about opposing teams' time of possession? Besides, it's "apples and oranges" to some extent if Kirwan's comparing one team that's just past the midway point of it season to another that played all the way to the Super Bowl.
posted by alumshubby at 12:13 PM on December 02, 2005
As a lifelong Bears Fan and a season ticket holder in 85 I can only think of 1 current player who would have a chance of starting on the 85 team (Urlacher) and he'd have to change positions. As to the current corners being better, you have got to be kidding. Did you see Gallgher's and Smith's numbers the last 2 weeks. We're you watching the Cleveland game. The 85 Bears we're incredible and amazing, the current D is merely really, really good! The strenght of scheldule in 85 was much harder. Anyway, I'm thrilled with the current team and can't wait to see Favre get the snott kicked out of him this Sunday. Go Bears! CYA in the Playoffs
posted by skydivedad at 12:13 PM on December 02, 2005
Desert Dog, tis the season. Ho ho ho, etc. This year's Bears are awful good, and Urlacher deserves all the kudos he gets for leading it, but watching the 85 Bears defense was like watching early-era Mike Tyson, or throwing a feed mouse into a snake pit. That sense of complete intimidation just isn't there this year. Offenses expect to be outclassed by the Bears' D this year, but they don't always get wiped out. If the Bears win the Super Bowl this year on the back of that D, we can revisit this discussion then.
posted by chicobangs at 12:16 PM on December 02, 2005
The '85 Bears corners had much better help over the top with their safeties (Fencik & Duerson). Wasn't Mike Richardson's nickname "Toast"?
posted by willthrill72 at 12:17 PM on December 02, 2005
Also, Ditka does win, wearing his suit and no helmet. (sweater) I know how people love the bold!
posted by grabofsky74 at 12:23 PM on December 02, 2005
We are the Bears Shufflin' Crew Shufflin' on down, doin' it for you. We're so bad we know we're good. Blowin' your mind like we knew we would. You know we're just struttin' for fun Struttin' our stuff for everyone. We're not here to start not trouble. We're just here to do the Super Bowl Shuffle. Walter Payton Well, they call me Sweetness, And I like to dance. Runnin' the ball is like makin' romance. We've had the goal since training camp To give Chicago a Super Bowl Champ. And we're not doin' this Because we're greedy. The Bears are doin' it to feed the needy. We didn't come here to look for trouble, We just came here to do The Super Bowl Shuffle. Willie Gault This is Speedy Willie, and I'm world class. I like runnin' but i love to get the pass. I practice all day and dance all night, I got to get ready for the Sunday fight. Now I'm as smooth as a chocolate swirl, I dance a little funky, so watch me girl. There's not one here that does it like me, My Super Bowl Shuffle will set you free. Mike Singletary I'm Samurai Mike I stop'em cold. Part of the defense, big and bold, I've been jammin' for quite a while, Doin' what's right and settin' the style, Give me a chance, I'll rock you good, Nobody messin' in my neighborhood. I didn't come here lookin' for trouble, I just came to do The Super Bowl Shuffle (Repeat Chorus) Jim McMahon I'm the punky QB, known as McMahon. When I hit the turf, I've got no plan. I just throw my body all over the field. I can't dance, but I can throw the pill. I motivate the cats, I like to tease. I play so cool, I aim to please. That's why you all got here on the double To catch me doin' the Super Bowl Shuffle. Otis Wilson I'm mama's boy Otis, one of a kind. The ladies all love me For my body and my mind. I'm slick on the floor as I can be But ain't no sucker gonna get past me. Some guys are jealous Of my style and class, That's why some end up on their -, I didn't come here lookin' for trouble, I just get down to The Super Bowl Shuffle. Steve Fuller They say Jimbo is our man. If Jimmy can't do it, I sure can. This is Steve, and it's no wonder I run like lightnin', pass like thunder. So bring on Atlanta, bring on Dallas, This is for Mike and Papa Bear Halas. I'm not here to feather his ruffle, I just came here to do The Super Bowl Shuffle. Mike Richardson I'm L.A. Mike, and I play it cool. They don't sneak by me 'cause I'm no fool. I fly on the field and get on down. Everybody knows I don't mess around. I can break'em, shake'em, Any time of day. I like to steal it and make 'em pay, So please don't cry to beat my hustle 'Cause I'm just here to do The Super Bowl Shuffle. (Repeat Chorus) Richard Dent The sackman's comin', I'm your man Dent. if the quarterback's slow, He's gonna get bent. We stop the run, we stop the pass, I like to dump guys on their -. We love to play for the world's best fans, You better start makin' Your Super Bowl plans. But don't get ready or go to any trouble Unless you practice The Super Bowl Shuffle. Gary Fencik It's Gary here, and I'm Mr.Clean. They call me "hit man," Don't know what they mean. They throw it long and watch me run, I'm on my man, one-on-one. Buddy's guys cover it down to the bone, That's why they call us the 46 zone. Come on everybody let's scream and yell, We're goin' to do the Shuffle, Then ring your bell. William Perry You're lookin' at the Fridge, I'm the rookie. I may be large, but I'm no dumb cookie. You've seen me hit, you've seen me run, When I kick and pass, we'll have more fun. I can dance, you will see The others, they all learn from me. I don't come here lookin' for trouble, I just came here to do The Super Bowl Shuffle. (Repeat Chorus)
posted by Bill Lumbergh at 12:28 PM on December 02, 2005
I don't care, as long as they don't do the Super Bowl Shuffle again. [on preview, damn you Bill!]
posted by scully at 12:30 PM on December 02, 2005
Stats say it is close, but for some reason it just show that same page magic as '85. This team may have some better qualities for the era but nothing compares to the smachmouth of that time and certainly before. Seems the more "healthy" these guys get, the more injuries they receive. Too many big time players getting hurt nowadays and the Bear D has had a healhty season so far. The Bears as a whole have no complete comparison to '85 what-so-ever. I have enjoyed watching this season more than even the 13-3 season of a cpl years back because this team seems to have a better chemistry. I will say I have gotten bored with the Orton greatness speaches from announcers though. Someday, maybe. Now, not even close! Offensively, if they didn't have the running game they would have nothing. If they win the S.B. with just a big D, that would be sad for all the past Champions including the '85 BEARS {Greatest Team Ever in my book}. They do have a bright future though. Take it from another Chi-Town boy, this team isn't there just yet, but sure can be in another year or two.
posted by melcarek69 at 12:33 PM on December 02, 2005
Do any members of the current Bears team have special-order GI Joe figures in their likeness? Nope. Case closed.
posted by cobra! at 01:11 PM on December 02, 2005
As soon as one or two of those defensive players get crocked, the Bears are done. They can't score more than a touchdown.
posted by StarFucker at 01:15 PM on December 02, 2005
I can't answer the question. I just wish the Rams had Lovie Smith back.
posted by STLCardinalfan at 01:36 PM on December 02, 2005
Well, even with the fact this article was written over 2 weeks ago and now has stale-data, no, you can't compare the two defenses. Points to Kirwan, cyams, alumshubby, and chicobangs for pointing out/alluding to the ultimate distinction: the Super Bowl victory. On top of that, the '85 Bears defense has had time to marinate in fan's memories for two decades adding to (inflating?) the awe-inspiring nastiness of those '85 Monsters of the Midway. Points also to Wrigley South for the comparison to the '02 (really '00, I believe) Ravens -- very similar overall team what-with the utterly stagnant offenses and way of making games so boring they're near unbearable to watch. The '85 Bears also had the benefit of being a good team in '84 (going 10-6) whereas the Bears were 5-11 last year and predicted by many to finish at the bottom of the standings, if not last, this year (thank you Dr. Z of S.I. Buffalo Bills fame), therefore, individual players haven't had the national exposure as those of the '85 team. If that last comment flew by you, tell me the last time you heard the names Adam Archuletta and Aeneas Williams. (on preview Cardsfan, yeah, sorry about that one) Go Bears! -Snare
posted by redsnare at 01:38 PM on December 02, 2005
no again. besides, isn't it just a little premature to compare this team after 11 games to a superbowl team? especially considering their shutting down of offensive powerhouses like the lions (x2), ravens, niners, vikings and bucs? their showing against carolina was nice, but i think their loss to a more complete offense in the bengals was more telling. these guys take care of bad teams, which is essential, but they're not ready to take on upper echelon offenses just yet. that's saying nothing about their fledgling passing game, too.
posted by ninjavshippo at 02:37 PM on December 02, 2005
Someone said Urlacher could have played for the '85 Bears. Maybe. No way he could start over Singletary, but with his wheels at Outside LB yeah I can see it. Remember Urlacher has had a few mediocre seasons when he didn't have a Ted Washington or Tommy Harris to keep Guards and Centers off of him. Could he make the team, yes. Could he start over OR replace Singletary, no. Is he the type of Middle LB for the 46? I don't think so. Which may be my primary bias.
posted by Wrigley South at 02:44 PM on December 02, 2005
The '05 defense versus the '85 defense? It may be a little too soon to be asking this question, but I'd have to say '85 for two reasons: Hampton and McMichael in the middle of the line. They may have been the best pair of defensive tackles ever, anchoring the middle and allowing the likes of Dent, Singletary, et al, to roam freely and create havoc against opposing offenses. Probably the biggest question for the current edition of the Bears' team is whether a rookie quarterback can learn quickly enough to come up with a couple of big plays at playoff time. McMahon had the attitude of a winner, but the jury is still out on Orton. Actually, I'd have to rate the '05 defense as the third best in Bears history. Anyone remember the team that won it all in '63? They knocked off the great Packers' team of that era (remember the first two Super Bowls?), and finished it off with a victory over Y. A. Tittle and the Giants in the championship game. I'm not sure how that team ranked statistically, but it was one hell of a defense.
posted by OldDawg'44 at 03:44 PM on December 02, 2005
Hampton and McMichael in the middle of the line. They may have been the best pair of defensive tackles ever Wasn't Hampton an end? Perry and Mongo were the tackles.
posted by willthrill72 at 03:55 PM on December 02, 2005
Mike Brown can knock the snot out of people. I think he could start. Also keep in mind that chico has only put in 50% of the playbook. The current bears haven't blitz the lbs yet because the front four have been doing such great job. I also believe that the current bears are deeper. I saw the 85 bears in nola. I can tell you that i have never seen an opposition team in such fear and state of panic. I don't believe that the current team is feared --- yet.
posted by whodat at 04:15 PM on December 02, 2005
Where would Urlacher start for the '85 Bears? Maybe tight end? I don't think he could replace Singletary, Otis Wilson, OR Wilbur Marshall. That was one badass crew of 'backers.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:22 PM on December 02, 2005
Where would Urlacher start for the '85 Bears? Maybe tight end? I don't think he could replace Singletary, Otis Wilson, OR Wilbur Marshall. That was one badass crew of 'backers. Either Urlacher would replace Fencik at safety or he would be responsible for keeping the Fridge's garbage can full of water! No comparison to the 85 Bears, they were the best team ever.
posted by panteeze at 04:29 PM on December 02, 2005
You can't replace Fencik at safety. He was one of the hardest hitting motherfuckers to ever play. The only way Urlacher could play on that team is if they ran a 4-3 defense, which would never happen with the 46.
posted by willthrill72 at 04:34 PM on December 02, 2005
My Super Bowl prediction has the Colts' irresistible force meeting da Bears' immovable object.
posted by kirkaracha at 04:36 PM on December 02, 2005
My Super Bowl prediction has the Colts' irresistible force meeting da Bears' immovable object. Your half right. Indy 24, Bears 3.
posted by STLCardinalfan at 04:40 PM on December 02, 2005
In the NFC this season, I could see the Bears making it to the Super Bowl. Playing the Colts, indoors, though, provided the Colts don't screw it up again, will be a tall order. The Bears "D" could play a great game but they would still probably fall short. The Colts' defense is vastly underrated.
posted by dyams at 04:44 PM on December 02, 2005
My Super Bowl prediction has the Colts' irresistible force meeting da Bears' immovable object. Your half right. Indy 24, Bears 3. You're both wrong.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:50 PM on December 02, 2005
You're both wrong. I too liked Carolina at the outset but I'm thinking Indy/Seattle now with Indy winning in a rout.
posted by STLCardinalfan at 05:10 PM on December 02, 2005
Just to remind everyone, the Lions almost beat the Bears in their second game but Garcia is a crack whore. I bet the Bears could possibly make the Super Bowl, even win it...... IF Peyton Manning gets hurt.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:30 PM on December 02, 2005
In answer to willthrill72, Perry was a back-up at tackle. Hampton and McMichael were the starters. It was a nice luxury to have the 'fridge in the rotation, though. Of course you had Dent at one defensive end, but for the life of me, I can't remember who was on the other side. Anybody out there help jog a poor old dawg's memory?
posted by OldDawg'44 at 08:47 PM on December 02, 2005
Okay, I'm back again after doing a little research. Maybe my memory's getting foggy with old age. I found a site listing the roster of the '85 team and willthrill72 is correct. It listed Dan Hampton at DE and Perry at DT (with Hampton as his back-up). Since the 'fridge was a rookie (I think) it could be that Hampton started the season at tackle and moved over as Perry gained experience. Sorry for the error. (Butkus was a middle-linebacker, wasn't he?)
posted by OldDawg'44 at 09:09 PM on December 02, 2005
Glad to see Wilbur Marshall isn't forgotten. Go Gators!
posted by tselson at 10:42 PM on December 02, 2005
Glad to see Wilbur Marshall isn't forgotten. Go Gators! Former Gator here, so I'm a little biased. Heh heh.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:27 PM on December 03, 2005
Biased maybe, but he was a bad ass. I'm still hurting over the ...gulp...Spurrier led Gamecocks taking it to us. On topic ,Marshall was a 2nd year? player at the time and made the pro bowl the next year. He was damn good on that defense and I would have to say would be the best or second best player on this years version. I guess my point is he didn't even get mentioned by most on this thread, if he was on this years team he would be the talk of the town.
posted by tselson at 10:56 PM on December 03, 2005
Marshall was a heckuva player, and I stillthink I have his rookie card somewhere in a box in my mom's attic.
posted by Fade222 at 11:08 PM on December 03, 2005
Nope.