12/21/24
October 10, 2007
Editorializing on the Front Page: My choice of the phrase "early exit" in the Yankees post drew some heat from SportsFilter members who felt I chose the link to kick the Yankees while they were down.
posted by rcade to editorial policy at 09:49 AM - 172 comments
I think "another early exit" is factual -- it's an exit in the first round three years in a row. I do get a sense, with the Waldman post (which could have probably been included in the discussion from the day before instead of as a separate FPP), how there could be a perception of piling on, but that is going to be coming through the lens in many cases of fans who are taking this tough. Sports and teams are a very emotional issue for some. I think any post about the Yankees losing was going to be painful for some people, regardless of how factual or editorial it was. On a 1-10 factual to editorial scale (with 1 being "Yankees Lose to Indians 3 Games to 1" linking to the MLB/ESPN/wire story and 10 being "Yankees Chokers Choke Again, Going Down in Flames as America Rejoices that the Antichrist is Slain Yet Again"), I would put the FPP in question at a 3 -- solely because the more words you use, the more likely it is that someone will read something into them or read into them an intent that isn't there.
posted by holden at 10:37 AM on October 10, 2007
I keep an eye on Google Trends to find breaking news. Suzyn Waldman was one of the 10 hottest search terms yesterday, so I figured it would be good fodder here. And that audio was a great trainwreck.
posted by rcade at 10:57 AM on October 10, 2007
A user is threatening to quit because you used the words "early exit?" That's very weak. The Yankee defeat was a front page story - I'm not emotionally invested in baseball, but I'm really struggling to see the problem here. Would the mystery person have found it less offensive if someone else had made the post?
posted by Mr Bismarck at 11:08 AM on October 10, 2007
Precedent check! - 2005 "Yankees eliminated" post - 2006 "Yankees eliminated" post While the wording of both the previous two posts rates a 1 on holden's factual scale, both are general who's-advancing-to-the-LCS posts, so the Yankees only take up half of the post. The two questions as I see them: (a) do the Yankees deserve their own post this year, or is it piling on? (b) was this year's wording over-the-top? My answers: a. Yes. If nothing else, the team's free agent and managerial situations warrant discussion. b. No. Of course a first-round exit is "early" for the Yankees. Ask George. Further evidence that there's nothing wrong with this year's post: the quality of discussion is much higher than that of the previous two years. (If you gloss over the "why was this comment deleted" posts.) There's more serious "what will the Yankees do now" talk, and less "woohoo Yankees lose".
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:12 AM on October 10, 2007
I actually told rcade I wasn't going to do this, but I changed my mind for the singular reason that I think that 1) I owe the community an apology for my indefensible use of vulgar language Monday night (though I maintain that I stand by the sentiment); and 2) I should quit properly and publicly. My issues with rcade's first post after the Yankees loss are these: 1) it was a throwaway AP article that was tossed up minutes after the game ended -- it was, in effect, a game recap with some regurgitated conjecture about the future of the Yankees that has been running in the mill since February. 1a) (added on edit) The real story about Joe Torre's future broke Sunday morning when Steinbrenner made the remark. Nothing went up about it then. Nothing in Monday's AP article was new news -- some was 2 days old, some was a year old, some was the same "oh my god, the team's breaking up" that has been the annual ritual since 2001. 2) there was no precedent to such hurrying to get a post up for any of the other series. Additionally, equally big stories on which rcade has posted, like the USC upset, were apparently worthy of waiting until the next day's well-developed copy. 3) This comment made by rcade during last year's ALDS. I am still relatively new to this whole blogging thing, but in a short time I have learned a little bit about how to respect my fellow bloggers. I slip from time to time (like I did Monday night) but I do try to be considerate. For that reason, I try to stay away from posting negative stories about rivals of my team where I might leave the sense that I was revelling in their misery. When I saw that weak post go up Monday night, knowing rcade's feeling about the Yankees, I felt he was gloating. It was the wrong article at the wrong time from the wrong person. I wrote to rcade Tuesday morning with a clearer head and told him that I stood by my comment on Monday night. He then banned me until I apologized. I am going to copy my reply to that notice below: You can't fire me, I already quit. I apologize for the vulgarity but not the sentiment. If you can honestly look inside your soul and write me back and say that you put up that FPP without an ounce of glee, without a bit of revelry in the state of Yankees affairs, or even if you can tell me you actually spent any time looking for the most well-written and insightful observation of the series and the possible scenarios in aftermath, keeping with the high standards clearly stated in the SportsFilter guidelines, I will issue you a full apology. If you can't do that and your best defense is that I overreacted, then I don't think I'm the one who should be apologizing. I believe I and the other Yankee fans were unfairly and unkindly taunted, and beyond that I believe you see that kind of taunting as acceptable. And for that I would like to kindly invite you to have sex with yourself. I can't express my feelings any better than that. I didn't "suggest I might quit." I quit. I will continue to read here selectively, but I'm done opening myself to abuse. I live in Red Sox territory and I don't get near as bad treatment outside as I do in here. Outside they just throw stuff at me. I now invite you to the dozen or so comments about my oversensitivity, which I will read. They will undoubtedly make me feel so much worse about my decision. Again, to rcade and to those who saw it, I apologize for the way I expressed myself Monday night.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 11:19 AM on October 10, 2007
Thanks for posting, TCS. It looks like I was looking at the wrong details for my argument.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:28 AM on October 10, 2007
Thanks TCS for chiming in and providing your explanation and thoughts. Without commenting any further on the substance or merits of any side's argument, I will say I'm sorry to see you go. Who will I tweak about Jeter's defense? Who will expound on some arcane bit of Hall of Fame history or share some insights from some rare archival footage to which us mere mortals have no access? I hope you reconsider. Or at least come back under a third name. Or at least may pop over to the Campfire from time to time.
posted by holden at 11:37 AM on October 10, 2007
(on edit: i wasn't expecting Crafty to post, so some of this may be redundant. but maybe that's a good thing) my beef wasn't with the "early exit" line. what was the purpose of the FPP? if it was about the early exit, fine. so, where are the links for the 3 teams that also exited early? if the purpose was to discuss possible personnel changes then the link was very weak. it was a just a game recap with nothing of note in it. it's been known for months who will be free agents after this year. Steinbrenner made the comment about Torre's job before Game 3. where was the FPP then? it's not breaking news. you could have waited until the morning when more articles and columns and blog posts came out discussing these things. i guess i expect more from an admin of this site than a lazy link to an AP article. it's no secret that you dislike the Yankees (and other big market teams), rcade. so when i saw a rather ambiguous FPP with a link to an AP game recap not long after the final out, yeah, I was rather suspicious of your intentions. i will readily admit that i was emotional after coming home from the game, but even today i still feel the same way.
posted by goddam at 11:58 AM on October 10, 2007
Thanks for the apology. I was wrong to fish one out of you with the temporary ban, but it is tough sometimes to be an admin in a community where the Ban User button beckons seductively as the sweet settler of arguments. I said I'd explain my feelings about the Yankees if it mattered, so I will. I'm a lifelong Rangers fan. The team has a 1-9 postseason record. All of those games were played against the Yankees. So I refuse on principle to root for the team and take pleasure in their suffering. But that gets old when the Yankees aren't crushing opponents underfoot like an Evil Empire. These days, the Yankees have hopeless pitching, get beat like a drum in the playoffs and have likeable young players. They've also got the impossible-to-dislike manager who's about to be fired. They're practically, as much as I hate to admit this, sympathetic. The idea that I'd use the front page to gloat on Yankee suffering is so far out in left field that Steve Bartman could catch it, and I think it's demonstrated by the hundreds of posts I've made here. I posted the link the way I did because it was the aspect of the series I felt would most elicit good discussion.
posted by rcade at 12:05 PM on October 10, 2007
These days, the Yankees have hopeless pitching, get beat like a drum in the playoffs... Sounds like those all-hit, no-pitch Rangers playoff teams -- maybe that's why you're starting to like them. As to goddam's comments, I think those with TCS's again lend some valuable insight. I will say that, for better or worse, the Yankees will always invite more scrutiny and disparate treatment (such as an FPP when no other divisional series or series winner or loser gets one) because of their place as the most storied franchise in all of American sports. Is that fair? Probably not, but non-Yankees fans might think it's also not fair that the Yankees have won 26 championships. It's like the old adage about what they tell incoming freshmen during orientation at Harvard -- "Don't do anything criminal or criminally stupid. At other schools, it's maybe a story for the police blotter section of the school paper. At Harvard, it's front page of the Globe or the New York Times."
posted by holden at 12:22 PM on October 10, 2007
Steinbrenner made the comment about Torre's job before Game 3. where was the FPP then? To be fair, Steinbrenner makes that threat, veiled or not, almost seasonally.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:33 PM on October 10, 2007
Wow. I missed all of the deleted stuff, but knew exactly what happened and to whom before this even came out. My two cents; I know that I am a completely different person the first couple of weeks after the Kansas Basketball team loses in the NCAA's. I can only imagine that someone much closer to thier organization lives and dies by it 10 times more than me. That said, I tend to agree that it was a throwaway link, and it probably would have pissed me off too. Crafty, I do hope you stick around. If only for the Germans dropping the bomb on Pearl Harbor. Oh, that and arguing whether Buck O'Neil deserves to be in the HoF.
posted by hawkguy at 12:35 PM on October 10, 2007
Is that fair? Probably not, but non-Yankees fans might think it's also not fair that the Yankees have won 26 championships. That sentiment gets right to the crux of why I am leaving. That number 26 means nothing to me -- I wasn't alive for 20 of them and the six I did see did nothing to keep me from rooting just as hard (and this year, for personal reasons, probably 100 times harder) for my team to win. Nobody here can contol the distribution of wins and dollars. The distribution of fair handling is controllable. There's a pervasive air here (other places, too, of course, but more disappointingly here) that you can offer less consideration to Yankees fans and dump on their team harder because they've won more. Maybe that's justifiable on some level, but it's not the place I want to hang out.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:41 PM on October 10, 2007
Man, I almost lawyered that statement about the 26 championships -- disclaimers about not feeling that way myself or endorsing that as a legitimate view, etc. (And I realize, TCS, that you weren't necessarily suggesting I endorse that view.) So allow me to clarify or expound a bit. I don't think it's "fair" to dump on the Yankees more than dumping on other teams. However, it is more likely for the Yankees to be dumped on, just like it's more likely for George Bush's personal life to be scrutinized and on a wider basis than it is for a mid-sized town's mayor's personal life to be scrutinized. I think it's just a fact of life, fair or not. And as such (and I'm not suggesting anyone has/had too think skin here), Yankees fans should have thick skin. It might not be fair, but it's reality. Having the most storied history, playing in one of the most storied stadiums, getting more national coverage than other teams, having a higher payroll and greater revenues -- all of these are factors or benefits to the Yankees and their fans that are a trade-off (again, in the way things are, if not the way things should be) for the fact that the Yankees are going to be more scrutinized, get more negative press, be subject to a greater outpouring of glee and schadenfreude when they lose, etc. Being a fan of the team (while not necessarily a volitional act, as many are born into it, I'm sure) is like being a free agent signing with the Yankees -- you know you're going to get certain prestige and benefits, but you know you're fodder for the back page of the broadsheet when things go wrong. Now it's a fair question to ask whether SportsFilter should be above the fray and different in being a place that is more "like things should be" than a reflection of "how things are" in the outside world of sports journalism and commentary. I tend to think it is better than sports commentary and fan message board fodder generally, while far from perfect. For me, it's like the internet as a whole. There's a lot of bad stuff out there and it's used for bad purposes, but, on the whole, the good far outweighs the bad and I just try to filter out that which is unsavory to me.
posted by holden at 12:59 PM on October 10, 2007
How is it unfair for a team to win 26 championships? It isn't like they were given those wins, they earned them. I might be jealous of the 26 championships, but I hardly think it is unfair. Crafty, I won't ask you to stay since you seem set on leaving, but I will miss your contributions.
posted by apoch at 01:11 PM on October 10, 2007
I think "another early exit" is factual -- it's an exit in the first round three years in a row. What makes it early? There is nothing early about their exit unless you have expectations that they should go further. It is editorializing by implying that the Yankees should be disappointed by their "early exit" instead of happy that their team played well enough to make the playoffs. It could have been a what's next for this storied franchise FPP with a different linked article.
posted by bperk at 01:21 PM on October 10, 2007
What makes it early? There is nothing early about their exit unless you have expectations that they should go further. The relevant full text in the FPP was "Another Early Exit from the Playoffs." The only earlier exit would be getting swept. I guess I could see (and this is why above I suggested that more words or less ambiguous words is better) that early could be interpreted as early as in "earlier than expected," but I (from a totally non-partisan perspective -- I like/dislike the Yankees as much as any other non-Cardinals team) read it as early in terms of the stage of the playoffs in which they exited. As suggested above, the most factual and unambiguous way of rendering it would be something along the lines of "Yankees lose ALDS, 3 games to 1." (But even that could be read as charged -- one might also have "Indians win ALDS, 3 games to 1." Choices, choices.)
posted by holden at 01:28 PM on October 10, 2007
I think I should clarify this before it gets any further along -- like goddam, I had no issue at all with the specific phrase "early exit." I'm not sure where that notion came from. I took issue with the timing, quality and source of the post, the general biases of both the post and the article toward the Yankees' loss as opposed to the Indians' victory, and the fact that no other series had been covered at all, let alone in such abrupt fashion. If you want to continue to debate whether "early exit" was proper don't let me stop you, but for what it's worth my issue wasn't with specific semantics.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 01:40 PM on October 10, 2007
it's no secret that you dislike the Yankees (and other big market teams), rcade. The Rangers are a big market team. The small market success they've experienced tends to disguise the fact.
posted by rcade at 01:41 PM on October 10, 2007
The Cubs are the most pathetic team in sports history. There is no such thing as a lovable loser and '07 will turn out the way it always has in utter dissapointment. Wrigley should be torn down, replaced by a high rise and the ChiSox made the only team in Chicago. Make those north side haters go to the south side to watch baseball where they would tremble in fear of the 'hood. We'll see how many trendy psuedo-celebs and has-beens show up to watch baseball then. The Cubs are a disgrace to MLB. HA! Comment icon posted by Brahdakine at 1:16 PM CDT on October 4 I must admit I felt a twinge of anger over this comment and I post it just to suggest that around here hatred isn't as Yankee Centric as Crafty seems to think. I even get "Cubbie Hatred" comments from members here who otherwise are normally civil and well spoken. Perhaps it is the Century of Futility that has thickened my skin. While this particular post was obviously troll induced my reaction to it was suffered silently. I certainly can empathize with the feeling of disappointment and embarrassment and the last thing I wanted to see was a FPP outlining their considerable short-comings. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed only that the level of discussion can quickly turn rather ugly. I try to get over it and usually succeed. Forgive and Forget! Crafty, yea I think your being overly sensitive then again I don't have 26 Championships or even 6 for that matter to ease my suffering. You have contributed significantly and I'm sorry to see you go. Mayhaps you'll reconsider and do what I do, stick around for the Hockey!
posted by skydivedad at 01:43 PM on October 10, 2007
... the fact that no other series had been covered at all, let alone in such abrupt fashion. Nothing stopped the other 15,999 members of this site from posting a series ender on the other three. It's an open front page. Judging somebody by what they don't post here is bogus. The last time I made a front page post mentioning the Yankees was when pitchers and catchers reported. How many opportunities to gloat did I pass up since then?
posted by rcade at 01:50 PM on October 10, 2007
Personally I thought Rogers made the Yankees post in question to keep someone else from posting a "Yankees lose! Bite it suckers!" post. While I think his post was innocuous, I also agree with those who said it wasn't a very good link. I chalked that up to what I said in the above paragraph. However, I do think that Rogers has a tendency to post threads on hot-button issues. If there is something I read about that I think would start a heated thread I assume rcade will post it, and often he does. I usually disagree with those postings, but I simply don't participate in those threads. I think TCS is being a bit thin-skinned and I hope that a little time off from the site might allow him to calm down. The rest of my comments are about the Yankees and not about this Locker Room thread. Lastly, I have no sympathy for Yankees fans. No matter how many of their 26 championships they were alive for (link to a justgary blog entry that made me laugh). Your team will compete next year, the year after that, etc etc ad nauseam. People don't like the Yankees for that reason. No matter how often people throw the term dynasty around, it really only applies to the Yankees. Enjoy the winter off and you'll have another post season next year. MOST other teams will not.
posted by scully at 02:38 PM on October 10, 2007
As a complete outsider to this situation, let me just say that I think the negatives to this situation far outweigh the positives. I love this place. It makes my menial job worth attending every day. That said, you both are valuable contributors to this site, and I hate the thought of it being even a little bit less once this all plays out.
posted by hawkguy at 02:55 PM on October 10, 2007
As a complete neutral, I'd like to make a couple of points: 1. Every time there's a "Yankees/Red Sox" discussion, we seem to get passionate commentary. For me, that's fine and I think the mods do a good job of keeping things in line. But if we think it gives a bad impression of the place as an FPP, perhaps we can put future Yankees/Red Sox discussions in a side bar like the Locker Room? 2. The Crafty Sousepaw is one of my favourite posters to this site. I particularly like his sense of humour. Crafty, please reconsider leaving, as you add value to this place. That is all.
posted by owlhouse at 03:01 PM on October 10, 2007
Where I'm concerned, there are no negatives to this situation. I have a greater appreciation of the fact that some people have taken my comments about the Yankees more seriously than I did, and will keep that in mind if I post about the team. No biggee there. (Please be advised I also hate the Tennessee Titans, Miami Heat, Kiki Vandeweghe and the guy who scored the equalizer in stoppage time against Tottenham last weekend.) As for Sousepaw, he said there are reasons he rooted for the Yanks 100 times harder this year. I'm not that invested in the subject. It's just one story among the seven gajillion posted here.
posted by rcade at 03:08 PM on October 10, 2007
While I know that the end of the Yanks' season has more complications for Crafty than the rest of us can see or know, I still come back to one thing: It's the internet, fer chrissakes! People are going to be mean. People are going to be nasty. That's what the relative anonymity of the internet does to people. All of us who post regularly here have been busted on by others. Our writing style, our favorite team, our lack of punctuation, the list goes on and on. And, if the right troll gets caught up in your discussion, there are also likely to be personal insults thrown in for good measure. Still, the stuff you read here is so mild compared to some Yankee and Red Sox blogs out there that it still shocks me that people get so offended by it. In my time here, I can remember two "high-profile" members who quit in protest, and they're both back. If you need to take a break, Crafty, do it. I'm guessing the site will be back here when you return, and I'm guessing you will return, because it's one of the better sports sites in the virtual wasteland. Just remember, my friend, it's the internet. Of all the things in the world that could hurt you, don't let this be one of them. Also, if it's worth anything at all, when I first saw the link, I thought it was there because this was the only Division Series where the owner of the team had publicly said that the manager's job depended on winning this series. I thought it newsworthy for that reason, though not necessarily for the link that was featured. The discussion has been a lot more reasonable than the normal Yankees post, though, and that's been a relief.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:15 PM on October 10, 2007
People are going to be mean. People are going to be nasty. That's what the relative anonymity of the internet does to people. But see, that's where I have a problem with this situation. A lot of noobs see it as closed off. I see it as protecting the site and those who respect it. That is why I think the site works for us. Just because it is the internet it does not have to be mean. We tend to weed out the mean ones (old man, UCLA, whoever you are), and keep the great ones who contribute.
posted by hawkguy at 03:23 PM on October 10, 2007
my beef wasn't with the "early exit" line. what was the purpose of the FPP? if it was about the early exit, fine. so, where are the links for the 3 teams that also exited early? I like it here, I enjoy the people, the humour and the civility - but let's not turn it all into to pablum. This was an innocuous post with a worthy subject and, by most accounts, a lousy link. Crafty's umbrage was misplaced. There is an interesting story here, and a discussion to be had. This was a seminal game of the last decade if the fallout is to be found true - No Torre? No Posada? No Sandman?. Of course, it could be a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing - but we should be able to talk about it. And Crafty you're one of my favorite contributors, too. But this struck me as an overreaction, no doubt fueled by the timing of what I'm sure was a frustrating end to a frustrating series. And yes, Yankee haters are loving it, but you'll find mostly passive Yankee hate here. I'd be impressed if there was any other sports blog out there that would handle this as classy as we do.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:46 PM on October 10, 2007
hate... the guy who scored the equalizer in stoppage time against Tottenham last weekend Talk about letting yourself in for future heartbreak.
posted by trox at 03:59 PM on October 10, 2007
Spofi: We do class the goodest
posted by garfield at 04:35 PM on October 10, 2007
I can understand crafty's point. Four divisional series and only one gets posted. It would be nicer if we had a thread for each of the series. But that's not really rcade's job. And though it's obvious he's not a fan of the yankees, I think it's unfair to say he posted it because of personal reasons. We can debate the quality of the link, but I think it's clear he posted it because it was a huge story and the ramifications of the loss could go much deeper than just an early round exit. I think most of the members on sportsfilter try and put their fan goggles away when they're here. That's not an easy thing to do. And the yankees, for many reasons, are always going to draw the most attention. I don't think sportsfilter can stop that, or avoid it. What we can do is keep the thread at a decent level, try and clean up any drivel about how the yankees suck or that their evil. We don't get it all, but we get most. I'm sorry you're leaving crafty. You are one of my favorite members, and I wish you'd reconsider. I don't think you're over-reacting, simply because what you feel is what you feel. You're obviously a very passionate fan and it comes through in your writing. But if you're happier not contributing, I can't argue with your backing away.
posted by justgary at 05:18 PM on October 10, 2007
Hey, just as everyone is entitled to their own opinion of the Yankees, so everyone is entitled to their own opinion of SpoFi. Whether or not I agree with your umbrage, or the severity of your response, you have the right to take what you think is the appropriate action. This site will be considerably lighter on wit without you, not to mention appropriate usage of capitalization and punctuation! Cheers.
posted by tahoemoj at 05:35 PM on October 10, 2007
I am still relatively new to this whole blogging thing, but in a short time I have learned a little bit about how to respect my fellow bloggers. You definitely are if you're still respecting people. Everybody catches a few knocks; the nice thing about the Internet is there's nothing to stop you from coming back in on Monday morning and just grinning sheepishly about it. Without having seen the blue streak in question, I feel comfortable saying I've said worse in similar situations here. OTOH, no begging you to reconsider. That way to Drama Queendom. You've always got another account to fall back on. It sucks when it's your team getting kicked in the dick: all of a sudden it feels like these people you thought you were friendly with are acting like they don't know you and making fun of you. Again, just the Internet and everyone, with the sole exception of me, is a complete fucking toolbox who's never touched a girl. Even the girls. Assuming the Red Sox leave the playoffs under circumstances ugly enough to allow Boston papers to start with The Curse crap (someone talking head on Yahoo already suggested the end of curse talk in 2004 was "premature"), will the last poster turn off the lights?
posted by yerfatma at 07:11 PM on October 10, 2007
As someone who is a fan of the Bills, Blue Jays and Leafs, I WISH people were celebrating when my team got knocked out of the playoffs. That means those teams got into them in the first place. Even when people do make fun of the teams I cheer for, I just have to remember: At least I'm not a fan of the Arizona Cardinals, KC Royals or the (snicker) Ottawa Senators.
posted by grum@work at 07:42 PM on October 10, 2007
Or Notre Dame.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 07:48 PM on October 10, 2007
Meh, Michigan's title hopes are a little slim this year as well.
posted by yerfatma at 07:58 PM on October 10, 2007
They still can win the Big Ten title. That has to count for something.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:14 PM on October 10, 2007
They lost to a 1-AA team! ...for the record I bring nothing to every conversation I enter.
posted by YukonGold at 08:23 PM on October 10, 2007
...for the record I bring nothing to every conversation I enter. On second thought... Let's just ban all discussion of Red Sox and/or Yankees from now on. It's obviously too sensitive of a topic and those currently involved in the border war obviously can't get along. Puhhhhleeeze. As an admin rcade needs to hold true to the rules he sets forth and if his link is deemed to be "weak" than he needs to wait for a better one - regardless of opportune timing. If TCS's "banning" was a result of improper behavior it is also an admin's duty to control it. But this notion that someone needs to have posted a link to the other three series to validate having a thread about the Yankees is crap. This is an open forum and anyone can post anything with out validation or approval from a "higher power". The only power that exists is with an admin to remove content based on infingement of pre-determined decorum. There you go - constructive thoughts with only one snarky comment (I also take issue with any discussion that refers to SpoFi as a "blog". The format is a lot closer to a discussion forum than it is to what is widely accepted as a blog - personal opinion controlled by one individual or a group of like minded individuals...but that's neither here nor there)
posted by YukonGold at 08:44 PM on October 10, 2007
Crafty, in the 18-months or so that I've been hanging around with the SpoFites, I have learned one or two things. The biggest thing that I have learned is that it is too easy to give offense, and way too hard to make amends afterwards. I've also learned that, despite my regional heritage, there really are some good qualities about the Yankees and their fans. Now that I've said that, I may have to go into the Federal Protection Program for Red Sox fans who say something good about the Yankees. Someone, perhaps some martial arts guru or some philosopher, once said that your opponent is not your enemy. He is actually your friend, because without an opponent, there would be no competition, and there would be no opportunity for you to compete for whatever prize you seek. Thus, all of us need to realize that we are able to place our thoughts into the Sport Filter community only because there are others who do not share our viewpoint or opinion. Attacking another poster denies oneself of an opponent, and thus removes oneself from the honor of the competition. Crafty, I do not say these things as a criticism of you, but rather as an understanding of your viewpoint and a criticism of all of us who often lack the sensitivity to understand how some can be offended. I hope you will reconsider leaving the community. I will miss your often witty and always insightful comments.
posted by Howard_T at 10:32 PM on October 10, 2007
At least I'm not a fan of the . . . (snicker) Ottawa Senators. Seeing this just made me have to share something I read on wikipedia the other day that made me laugh out loud. So I was trying to find out the etymology of the term "bandwagon," which comes up a lot in the sports context but I knew had a meaning going back to a different context. In the entry for "Bandwagon Effect," under the subheading "Use in Sports" was the following (which is the entirety of the entry for that subsection): In sports, bandwagon effect is a term for people who begin flocking to a team after they have achieved success. The Ottawa Senators are an NHL franchise in Eastern Ontario that became popular only following the mid-1990s decline of more traditional teams Toronto Maple Leafs and Montreal Canadiens. Citizens jump on the Senators bandwagon, including non-hockey fans, whenever the Sens win a playoff series. When the Senators fail to advance in the playoffs and then 'fans' jump off the bandwagon, and either return to their original teams or forget about hockey altogether.
Love it.
posted by holden at 10:42 PM on October 10, 2007
My slant on the post was chosen because I was trying to emphasize the most interesting aspect of the Yankees' playoff loss -- the likely departures of Torre and some of their biggest names. And that story was built up as the series progressed and was ripe as soon as the Yankees lost. It would be nicer if we had a thread for each of the series. It would be...but it isn't news that the Phillies, Cubs and Angels lost. It was news that they made the playoffs to begin with. It is news when the Yankees lose. The Sox were expected to win and Colorado and Arizona winning isn't really...what...worth talking about unless your a fan. There have been twice as many posts about the Yankees than any other team around here. There are more Yankee fans outside of New York than Colorado and Arizona fans combined. I get that. I don't get too irritated that most of the baseball talk around here is about the Yankees but Yankees fans can't shut off the internet because they're not in the mood. Oh, and speaking of being in the mood, where is my invitation? As someone who is a fan of the Bills, Blue Jays and Leafs, I WISH people were celebrating when my team got knocked out of the playoffs. Or Bengals, Reds...or dare I say...the Canadiens? Amen, grum. All in all, I read an article about the Farmer's Museum in Cooperstown, yesterday. I thought of you , TCS. Don't jip us just because the Yankees lost. Oh, and if it makes you feel better, I was reading Martha Stewart's "Living." That's what happens when your team has been out of it since May 1st.
posted by tselson at 11:03 PM on October 10, 2007
As an admin rcade needs to hold true to the rules he sets forth and if his link is deemed to be "weak" than he needs to wait for a better one - regardless of opportune timing. for the record that was my biggest issue, not "there needs to be links for every series." i only mentioned that because initially i really didn't know rcade's intention with the FPP. the link didn't have much substance and the rest of the post had nothing to do with the link. for me it was all about the timing and the laziness of the link. i don't have a problem with Yankee discussions. but if you're going to throw a link up, it wouldn't hurt to do a little research first. this team has about 10 regular beat writers in addition to numerous columnists. a few of those guys have blogs. plus there are quality fan-based blogs out there too. (and this goes for a lot of other teams and sports, not just the Yankees.) and like i said, couple the AP link with the fact that it was posted by a Yankee hater, i became suspicious of intent and reacted accordingly. gary brought up a point to me in an email yesterday that our biases tend to come out in our posts, whether we know it or not. and i think he's right. also, we tend to read certain undertones in other people's writings when we know where their allegiances are. i knew that rcade doesn't like the Yankees, so i made the inference that his FPP was posted as a dig at the team and their fans. apparently i was wrong of your intent, rcade, which i'm glad hear.
posted by goddam at 11:47 PM on October 10, 2007
While I wrote what I did (about the link quality) in fairness to the concept of running a community, I also believe in my heart of heart that the quality of the link is irrelevant in this case. It could have been pulitizer prize winning journalism and the outcome would have been the same.."how dare you piss on the still burning embers of my team's defeat". Had someone posted a link on the Cubs would their defeat to a team many considered vastly inferior have been met with all of this discussion? In other words, change the names of the teams involved and you have a different outcome? Very likely. And if the same Yankee post followed that would we be right where we are? I think it's very likely as well. This community should be at its core about the passion of fandom, but its apparent passion for grinding axes seems to get in the way of that a lot. on edit: and goddam, I am in no way of accusing you of grinding an axe here - that's a generalization.
posted by YukonGold at 01:03 AM on October 11, 2007
Damn, you really were up late. How did Karate Kid end?
posted by yerfatma at 06:11 AM on October 11, 2007
While I wrote what I did (about the link quality) in fairness to the concept of running a community, I also believe in my heart of heart that the quality of the link is irrelevant in this case. It could have been pulitizer prize winning journalism and the outcome would have been the same.."how dare you piss on the still burning embers of my team's defeat". But, you see, if someone had posted a link about the LDS in general, including all four teams that had lost their LDS matchups, it would sure have seemed a lot less like someone very selectively pissing on the "early exit" of the one team that managed to win a game in their series, and ignoring the even earlier exit of the three that got swept. rcade says he didn't mean it that way -- okay, so "early exit" was a bad choice of words, I can accept that. But I also think it's a bit obtuse to fail to understand why it would come across that way.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:53 AM on October 11, 2007
How did Karate Kid end? It was amazing! So...Daniel enters the All-Valley karate tournament and they don't want to let Ali on the floor so she pretends to be Mr. Miyagi's translator even though she doesn't speak the language, the stupid ref totally falls for it. Anyways he has to fight in this big tournament and he's totally the unknown and eventually they have this amazing musical montage where Daniel wins every fight in convincing fashion. After maybe 100 fights it's just him and the Kobra Kai left in the tournament. First, he has to fight Dutch, the really ugly guy that's totally cocky - he's pretty bad ass, but I totally wanted Daniel to kick his ass. Dutch is obviously pretty good because he can fight both southpaw and right-handed. It was a tough fight but Daniel wins. After that he has to fight the "nice" Kobra Kai, Bobby. He always struck me as the outsider in Kobra Kai so it was tough to watch what happened next, Sensei ordered Bobby to "sweep the leg" to hurt Daniel's knee. He didn't want to but he gave in and hurt Daniel even though he felt really bad about it. Daniel wins the fight on disqualification but now has the fight the main bad guy Johnny in the finals. Daniel is hurt really bad but Mr. Miyagi uses magic to fix him. In the finals he tries his best to fight through the pain but Johnny eventually kicks his injured knee when Daniel shows signs of being able to win. Johnny gets a warning but isn't disqualified so Daniel is forced to continue or forfeit. He summons all his strength and stands up on his one good leg to use the crane kick. Sensei is pissed and screams out "FINISH HIM!" But Daniel totally kicks Johnny in the face and wins. It was amazing, after the win Johnny congratulated him completely earning his respect. Daniel is lifted to the sky to celebrate the true champion that he is. After the tournament he lost his virginity with Ali.
posted by YukonGold at 07:57 AM on October 11, 2007
That sounds awesome. They should make a sequel.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 08:12 AM on October 11, 2007
So what you're saying is Miyagi gave him some Barry Bonds-type cream or clear? There are no heroes anymore. ignoring the even earlier exit of the three that got swept Except the other three teams haven't made a recent history of doing this. rcade's not the only one who noticed: "Here's all you need to know about why the Yankees are 4-13 in their past 17 postseason games: In that stretch their starting pitchers are 2-8 with a 6.36 ERA while averaging 4 2/3 innings per start. Two wins from starting pitchers in 17 games, none in which they completed seven innings."
posted by yerfatma at 08:13 AM on October 11, 2007
They should make a sequel. I concur. Might I suggest a Peter Cetera power ballad to set the tone for movie #2?
posted by jerseygirl at 08:45 AM on October 11, 2007
And then perhaps a movie with a girl! Switch it up on our asses!
posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:04 AM on October 11, 2007
Someone, perhaps some martial arts guru or some philosopher, once said that your opponent is not your enemy. He is actually your friend, because without an opponent, there would be no competition, and there would be no opportunity for you to compete for whatever prize you seek. Was that Sun Tzu, maybe?
posted by hawkguy at 09:21 AM on October 11, 2007
Crafty's leaving? Man this is rough. I was actually okay until I went into the lockerroom -- and the admins are sitting in rcade's office and they're reading this. The tears you hear in my voice are coming down the faces of the admins. Seriously, if Crafty's out, I'm out. We have a special bond. We traded CD's. I mean I can't hear "Connecticut's for F*cking" without thinking of him.
posted by SummersEve at 09:22 AM on October 11, 2007
rcade says he didn't mean it that way -- okay, so "early exit" was a bad choice of words, I can accept that. This is getting silly. Headlines in mainstream papers after the loss:
- Questions loom for Yanks after another early exit.
- Yankees exit 'too soon'
- Yankees frustrated by early exit
- Tribe hand Yankees another early exit
- For seventh straight season, Yankees go home early
posted by rcade at 09:24 AM on October 11, 2007
Nope, you're a big mean jerk.
posted by yerfatma at 09:36 AM on October 11, 2007
SummersEve: Does your comment mean I'm about to be fired?
posted by rcade at 09:45 AM on October 11, 2007
You forgot the snorty laugh, SE. Oh, in this case, the snarfled choking back of tears.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:47 AM on October 11, 2007
rcade, why is "bad choice of words", or "unfortunate phrasing" if you prefer, completely out of the question for you to cop to? And since when do the headlines in the "mainstream media" have anything to do with SpoFi? For the record, I wasn't that upset with you over the original FPP, but I'm starting to get a little annoyed at your dismissal -- second time now -- of my central argument with your FPP, without addressing the substance of it at all. You opened this thread here in the locker room, which implied to me that you were at least nominally interested in hearing other perspectives. Now you're just shouting this one down. Did you really only want to hear from yes-men and -women on this thread?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:49 AM on October 11, 2007
but I'm starting to get a little annoyed at your dismissal -- second time now -- of my central argument with your FPP, without addressing the substance of it at all. So you just need your apology?
posted by YukonGold at 10:05 AM on October 11, 2007
While I wrote what I did (about the link quality) in fairness to the concept of running a community, I also believe in my heart of heart that the quality of the link is irrelevant in this case. It could have been pulitizer prize winning journalism and the outcome would have been the same.."how dare you piss on the still burning embers of my team's defeat". i'm not going to speak for everyone. and when i say everyone that means the other person that was asked to explain their viewpoint here. because as far as i know there were only two of us that had issues and were in contact with admins. but personally, if there was a more relevant link or at least an additional one that expounded upon the possible departure of Torre and others, i wouldn't have had an issue. if you don't believe me that's fine. there's not really much i can do to convince you.
posted by goddam at 10:07 AM on October 11, 2007
starting to get a little annoyed at your dismissal -- second time now -- of my central argument with your FPP, without addressing the substance of it at all Perhaps because it's been addressed: 1. Anyone is free to post about any of the divisional series they want to. 2. The Yankees are the class franchise of the league and get more attention whether they win or lose. Schadenfreude is the price you pay for liking a good team.
posted by yerfatma at 10:39 AM on October 11, 2007
rcade, why is "bad choice of words", or "unfortunate phrasing" if you prefer, completely out of the question for you to cop to? Because I don't agree with that particular criticism. At all. I feel like I already addressed your main point here, LBB. I didn't know that people would think I'm a Yankees hater just because, uh, I said I hate the Yankees. I will keep that in mind. The link was weak, but it was posted minutes after the game, before the media filed anything other than game stories. Some of the best threads we had here were posted just like that after the Sox/Yankees playoff games a couple years ago.
posted by rcade at 10:42 AM on October 11, 2007
Ya'll some whiny ass titty babies for threatening to quit a damn website because someone posted a thread about your team losing....but it's not that they posted it in the first place, it's that they didn't use neutral language and/or didn't link to a good enough article about your team losing. Whatever. You were pissed that the Yankees lost, you were upset about it, and in the heat of the moment you let your frustrations out. And now you're trying to act all holier than thou, "wahh, rcade violated SpoFi standards" BS to try to cover your tracks because you are embarrassed that you did such a human thing but don't want to admit it.
posted by mbd1 at 11:23 AM on October 11, 2007
I feel like I already addressed your main point here, LBB. I read that, but that wasn't speaking to my point, which I seem to be communicating so badly that I probably shouldn't continue trying. You seem to keep thinking, and others keep insinuating, that I'm whining about you being mean. That's got nothing to do with it. I thought I made the distinction clear, but evidently I was wrong, and I don't see any way to make my point clearer than I already have, so...no point belaboring it. (parenthetically, I wonder if you're in agreement with yerfatma's comment above, basically saying, "Yeah, it was schadenfreude, so what?")
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:27 AM on October 11, 2007
Schadenfreude For anyone who hasn't googled it yet.
posted by SummersEve at 11:33 AM on October 11, 2007
I've been off the Yankees schadenfreudewagon since the last premature departure, LBB. Like the NFL with the Cowboys and the NBA with the Lakers and Celtics and the NHL with the Red Wings, Major League Baseball's more entertaining when the Yankees are good.
posted by rcade at 11:56 AM on October 11, 2007
basically saying, "Yeah, it was schadenfreude, so what?" So... you won't let it go until he apologizes and/or admits to it? Whether it be parenthetical or literal? How wide of a net are you casting out with regards to acceptability?
posted by YukonGold at 12:01 PM on October 11, 2007
The culture of this site is alienating Yankee fans. The two principal moderators -- one of whom decidedly does not like the Yankees, the other just this week went from enjoying Yankee suffering to pitying it -- either consciously or unconsciously (I prefer to think the latter) enable and facilitate that culture. They aren't deliberately unfair, but they do have biases. The handling of the playoff posts is just one example. The Yankees are a lightening rod for hate and there's little counterbalance here. I have tried to provide some of that counterbalance. Everyone has a limit for how many times they can be told to get over it before they'll walk away from a pointless fight. Take a look around and count the regular contributors who are Yankee fans. I've heard a few longtime members comment that not long ago that there used to be more but they're not as vocal anymore. Just since I've been here I know there are Yankee fans still contributing on this site who no longer seem interested in discussing the Yankees here. I never, not once, asked for or sought sympathy. And I didn't ask for this drama. I didn't put up this thread. I was perfectly happy to say my mind to rcade and walk away quietly. My argument was so badly misrepresented that I felt I had to say something, and I did owe an apology. For my trouble I get a lot of unwanted attention and a fresh set of footprints on the seat of my pants. I'm not leaving because I'm wounded or hurt, I'm leaving because I finally sobered up enough to realize this party just isn't my taste. I will always remember this place as the one where I was called a whiny ass titty baby the most.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:02 PM on October 11, 2007
Hate on the Red Sox then, my fucking word. If they lose post it as the final out is grasped - talk about how the Red Sox suck and I didn't get my free couch. I mean seriously, Yankee fans are going down in martyrdom because they don't have enough pitching? Do we need to have the US census bureau come in and decide who is the ruling class here? This is beyond ridiculous.
posted by YukonGold at 12:11 PM on October 11, 2007
Take a look around and count the regular contributors who are Yankee fans. Sparta's literacy problems are not our concern. Sincerely, The Newly Happy Citizens of Athens Please just let it go. If all your complaints are correct (and I do miss Beurnreuther and other Yankee fans of his ilk), all it suggests is the thick skin we Red Sox fans grew over the years serves us well. I don't remember 2003 being a great big pity party, yet somehow we pulled through. Hard-core Sox and Yankee fans have more in common with each other than they do with their own bandwagon fans, so to say you're without countrymen here because they don't salute the same laundry is without merit. You're making too big a deal and throwing babies out with slightly soiled bathwater. It's not worth it and every comment just makes the inevitable return a little harder. Where else are you going to go for literate abuse?
posted by yerfatma at 12:31 PM on October 11, 2007
So... you won't let it go until he apologizes and/or admits to it? You're missing the point, Yukon -- I am happy to take rcade's word for whatever his state of mind is/was, just pointing out that yerfatma apparently had a different take on it. As far as apologies go, though, I think TCS's most recent comment does make a fair case for the argument that something of the sort from some people who have contributed to this thread would not go amiss Not that he or I ever asked for one. So, please, stop insisting that I did.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:50 PM on October 11, 2007
the thick skin we Red Sox fans grew over the years serves us well. 
MORGAN Come on, Will... CHUCKIE Shut up. MORGAN No, why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? We got snacks now! WILL (smiles) So don't go. CHUCKIE Morgan, Let's go. MORGAN I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'. CHUCKIE (spins in his seat) You're goin'. And if you're not out there in two fuckin' seconds, when I'm done with them you're next!
posted by YukonGold at 12:51 PM on October 11, 2007
You're missing the point, Yukon Uhhh, no I'm not. You're gonna grind this axe until someone apologizes I think TCS's most recent comment does make a fair case for the argument that something of the sort from some people who have contributed to this thread would not go amiss Not that he or I ever asked for one. So, please, stop insisting that I did. You just did it again. Right there. ...oh and my axe? It's still quite dull.
posted by YukonGold at 12:53 PM on October 11, 2007
I like the part about Sandwich layaway.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:10 PM on October 11, 2007
Please just let it go. If all your complaints are correct (and I do miss Beurnreuther and other Yankee fans of his ilk), all it suggests is the thick skin we Red Sox fans grew over the years serves us well. I think TCS's complaint is legit. There is an anti-Yankee bias here that isn't evident for the Red Sox. I don't think it has anything to do with a thicker skin. Failing to recognize it and calling Yankees fans sensitive or martyrs is a great way to lose articulate, passionate Yankees fans as members.
posted by bperk at 01:21 PM on October 11, 2007
I think TCS's complaint is legit. There is an anti-Yankee bias here that isn't evident for the Red Sox. I don't think it has anything to do with a thicker skin. Failing to recognize it and calling Yankees fans sensitive or martyrs is a great way to lose articulate, passionate Yankees fans as members. Well bperk, that summerized my theory on this better than anything I could have strung together. You cannot anylize someone's feelings or motives because you can't get into their head. I don't know if someone is being sensitive or a martyr when they type something, and calling them as such has lost us some great contributors in the past. And evidently another one.
posted by hawkguy at 01:25 PM on October 11, 2007
"You cannot anylize someone's feelings or motives because you can't get into their head." The folks annoyed by the FPP seem to be putting themselves in rcade's head and deciding that he was dancing on the Yankee's graves.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 01:41 PM on October 11, 2007
Just since I've been here I know there are Yankee fans still contributing on this site who no longer seem interested in discussing the Yankees here. Ummm, there are plenty of places to discuss the Yankees. Why does SpoFi have to be the place? This is beyond ridiculous. I see no bias for or against the Yankees here. As someone said above most of the Yankees "hate" here is passive. I do not like the Yankees, but I give them as much thought as I do worrying about MY getting pregnant. I was thinking of asking for a pony. One which would show the logos of a member's favourite teams when you moused over their username. Then I realised two things: 1) People will read too much into a members comments if they think there is a bias FOR or AGAINST a particular team. Not knowing someone's allegiances is often time a very good thing. 2) We already show our allegiances on our profile pages. And after this thread I am wondering about the wisdom of it. Quit, or don't quit, TCS; but enough with the victimhood.
posted by scully at 01:42 PM on October 11, 2007
Ummm, there are plenty of places to discuss the Yankees. Why does SpoFi have to be the place? WTF? The Yankees are a sports team. This is a sports site. Quit, or don't quit, TCS; but enough with the victimhood. What victimhood? He didn't put up this thread. I don't see any examples of him begging for sympathy. You've decided that there isn't any bias against the Yankees. Great for you. Perhaps your own dislike of the Yankees is influencing your opinion? Either way, a complete lack of respect that other intelligent members might disagree is shitty. This thread is really bringing out the worst in some posters here. It seems like we ought to be able to come to some consensus that there might be an anti-Yankees or anti-other team bias that we would rather not have.
posted by bperk at 02:05 PM on October 11, 2007
one of whom decidedly does not like the Yankees I dislike the yankees as much as you dislike the red sox. I dislike the yankees as much as anyone dislikes the main competition to their favorite team. I've really tried to understand your side, but then I read this and I don't know what to say. Banning, deleting comments, deleting posts, I've never let the fact that I'm a red sox fan, celtic fan, cowboy fan, get in the way. In fact, I've gone overboard the other way. I've been quicker to delete anti-yankee comments than red sox comments. When someone linked earlier to previous playoff threads I had posted they were intentionally dry when they included yankee losses because I was a red sox fan and didn't want any accusations that I was gloating. I've posted very, very little on the red sox, but I've posted many positive yankee stories. 1 2 3 4 5 The site was started by sports fans and the members are sports fans. There are no robots involved. One, me, happened to be a red sox fan. And even though I've always tried to be fair, and listened when a yankee fan emails me, I still get called on it. If you have examples of my bias that has hurt the site I would love to hear them, but simply saying one dislikes the yankees isn't fair. One is a red sox fan, very happy to be a red sox fan, just like his father, who would like to see them win the east for the next 20 years. That's no different than you, except you root for the yankees.
posted by justgary at 02:12 PM on October 11, 2007
A few things. I've taken to irregularly posting the results of NBA playoff series for the past few seasons. I have found that, even in doing so, whatever story is dominating the headlines in the press will inevitably be what takes over the entire thread. So all members positing that a playoff-roundup would have settled matters, can tuck that notion safely to bed. The post wasn't slanted. There was no editorializing to speak of. There isn't a hint of axe-grinding in the FPP. What we have is a weak link. Thats it. Unfortunately, its a link weak enough for some members to ascribe darker motivations to its posting. I don't buy it. If rcade's motivation for posting was to take a pointed jab at the Yankees or their fans why wouldn't he do so in the FPP? He's shown no compunction in doing so in the past why would he censor himself now? It makes no sense. The man is famous for pope-squatting for crying out loud! He is anything but subtle. Full disclosure: I am a Dodger fan at heart, and while I rooted for the Sox in '04, as a fan of baseball I see little difference between Sox and Yanx fans in real life or on this site.
posted by lilnemo at 02:19 PM on October 11, 2007
Yukon: Uhhh, no I'm not. You're gonna grind this axe until someone apologizes You're wrong. I'm not asking for an apology. I pointed out the oddity of referring to the "early exit" of a team that won a game when all other losing teams in that round got swept. There is a difference. Please stop telling me what I'm thinking and what I want. ...oh and my axe? It's still quite dull. That's very nice for you, but as I never said anything about the state of your axe, I don't know why you're bringing it up.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:25 PM on October 11, 2007
Dungeons and Dragon Braggin'. Who's got the bigger vorpal blade? Herpes simplex + 5
posted by yerfatma at 02:41 PM on October 11, 2007
My only love, sprung from my only hate! Too early seen unknown, and known too late! Prodigious birth of love it is to me, That I must love a loathed enemy. O'happy dagger! This is thy sheath; there rust, and let me die. Death lies on her an untimely frost Upon the sweetest flower of all the field But Montague is bound as well as I, In penalty alike; and tis hard, I think, For men so old as we to keep the peace.
posted by skydivedad at 02:51 PM on October 11, 2007
I pointed out the oddity of referring to the "early exit" of a team that won a game when all other losing teams in that round got swept. So, early exit = number of games played, not number of rounds played? I think you could make an argument for both interpretations. I'm not asking for an apology...Please stop telling me what I'm thinking and what I want. Oh - sorry to have told you what you were saying so incorrectly. Care to elaborate on what these words were meant to imply...my feeble education is clearly failing me here.
I think TCS's most recent comment does make a fair case for the argument that something of the sort from some people who have contributed to this thread would not go amiss Not that he or I ever asked for one.As for "telling you what you are thinking" it's not the first time you've accused me (I can't find the archive link) - it's really your only retort to when I question your motivations here. For someone who's not worried about it you sure are putting on a brave face while fighting the good fight. What do you want to get out of this? If it's continuing to argue semantics, I'm game. I began my contributions by being critical of both parties involved as it relates to the structure of the community - to me that's trying to raise the level of discourse.
posted by YukonGold at 03:19 PM on October 11, 2007
"Dungeons and Dragon Braggin'. Who's got the bigger vorpal blade?" I haven't got an axe, but I've got a hammer! 
posted by Mr Bismarck at 03:29 PM on October 11, 2007
So, early exit = number of games played, not number of rounds played? I think you could make an argument for both interpretations. Sure you could. That's why I came to see this as "unfortunate choice of words". Oh - sorry to have told you what you were saying so incorrectly. Care to elaborate on what these words were meant to imply...my feeble education is clearly failing me here. It means that I think that some people have behaved like shitheads in this thread, and that TCS had every right to complain about that, and is probably due an apology from them. I expect I'll get plenty of heat for that, but so be it. I think there was some shitty behavior here, and I'll take the heat for saying so. As for "telling you what you are thinking" it's not the first time you've accused me (I can't find the archive link) - it's really your only retort to when I question your motivations here. For someone who's not worried about it you sure are putting on a brave face while fighting the good fight. I guess this is just one instance of the many times when people are getting a very different picture through the computer screen. I try (and fail, but I do try) to be careful about questioning motives in this medium in the absence of declarative statements; you seem to use a bit broader brush, and I probably read it as being more accusatory than it's intended to be. I'll try to remember that in the future and not jump to that particular conclusion. Works?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:31 PM on October 11, 2007
Wow. You're like the Joan of Arc of the internets. I read that, but that wasn't speaking to my point, which I seem to be communicating so badly that I probably shouldn't continue trying. And yet, it's almost as if you can't stop yourself. It really is fascinating to watch, though.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:41 PM on October 11, 2007
It's the internet, I actually grasp the concept that I don't really know you and paint exclusively with a broad brush. Until next time.
posted by YukonGold at 05:47 PM on October 11, 2007
That explains all those shitty designs, Yukon. Use the pencil tool or something.
posted by yerfatma at 07:38 PM on October 11, 2007
So if TCS is really gone, does that mean I win the "stats vs scouts" debate by default?
posted by grum@work at 08:09 PM on October 11, 2007
SpoFi: Just a bunch of anti-Yankee bigots.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:53 PM on October 11, 2007
The ironic thing is that Crafty was elevating the baseball talk around here. Yet he leaves because of the baseball talk. My brain just asploded all over the joint. I blame the exhumed corpse of the Gipper. After all, that's who we're all doin' it for.
posted by NoMich at 10:33 PM on October 11, 2007
SpoFi: Ride the Schadenfreudenwagen! btw, I blame flaxseed oil.
posted by worldcup2002 at 11:22 PM on October 11, 2007
This video look familiar?
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:23 AM on October 12, 2007
Just a bunch of anti-Yankee bigots I would like to refute this by simply pointing out my bigotry is not the source of my anti-Yankee bias.
posted by yerfatma at 06:05 AM on October 12, 2007
bperk: I may dislike the Yankees but I can assure you that my dislike of the team does not extend beyond thew team (read: I like many Yankees fans). I really don't care. I take no satisfaction from other people's sadness/frustrations/etc when their team loses. Yes, TCS is a bright person. But his comments here are filled with "wha, people here hate Yankees and their fans. We are persecuted!" which is what I termed victimhood. Check almost ANY baseball thread and you will not see me there. I gave up on baseball after the strike. And that was tough, coming from a long line of baseball fans. But I can't be bothered with it much now. I tune in during the playoffs and now that I am in New England I check the scores to see if the Red Sox won. But where I live people let others live and let live. And considering half of Vermont supports the Yankees and the other half the Red Sox, we all have learned to be careful what we say. My first comments were somewhat in support of TCS's, inasmuch as I think rcade posted to a lousy link too quickly, but TCS's last comment was OTT and I can't be bothered anymore. My comment about plenty of other places to discuss the Yankees was meant to indicate that if someone REALLY wants to discuss THEIR team they should find a site that supports their homer club. I try to remain neutral on this site and avoid "your team drools while my team rools" situations. TCS's comments came across as though Yankees fans are being burned at the stake here. They aren't. That's it for me in this thread. My "vote" is that rcade's post should be deleted because it was a bad post that broke the guidelines. Not because it upset someone. But the was innocuous; and anyone who gets so upset as to tell an admin to go have sex with himself and threaten to quit, is childish.
posted by scully at 08:39 AM on October 12, 2007
My "vote" is that rcade's post should be deleted because it was a bad post that broke the guidelines. We're beyond that point aren't we? I think rcade has a good handle on how to censure himself. He doesn't owe an apology, he shouldn't be deleting posts, he shouldn't be making excuses. The fact that this all revolves around thin skin continues shocking me.
posted by YukonGold at 09:54 AM on October 12, 2007
If Sousepaw thinks this site is chasing off Yankees fans, he did SportsFilter a favor by arguing his case here. But I think calling out individual contributors for bias, based on what they've said about teams they like or dislike, is a terrible way to do it. Hating a team comes in several forms: 1. I hate Team X as a begrudging form of respect for its success. 2. I hate Team X because sports is more fun when you have an antagonist and protagonist. 3. I hate Team X because I take sports too seriously. 4. I hate Team X because I'm the kind of asshole who likes to start fights with fans of the other team at games I attend. To me, the only haters we don't need fall in categories 3 and 4. And those kinds of people find the banhammer long before they try to post on the front page.
posted by rcade at 10:22 AM on October 12, 2007
Words to memorize, words hypnotize, words make my mother exercise. Words all fail the magic prize, nothing I can say when I am in your thighs. Oh mo ma ma ma ma mo ma mother I would love to love you lover. The city's restless, its ready to pounce. When I'm in your bedroom ounce for ounce. I fear for you decisions to make, things to lose things to take. Jessie's about ready to cut it up, she said wait a minute honey gonna add it up.
posted by Folkways at 10:25 AM on October 12, 2007
You are damned lucky I'm somewhere I can get at that song. If it were stuck in my head all day I might get violent. Not sure why Gordon Gano had that effect on me as a kid.
posted by yerfatma at 10:28 AM on October 12, 2007
The further I read the louder it got in my head and for that it had to be said. Simply this thread summed up. No worries YFM, just Add It Up!
posted by Folkways at 11:29 AM on October 12, 2007
I can't think of a constructive reason for me to continue with this thread. I have a macrame class in 20 minutes and from then on my life is pretty much booked. My e-mail address is in the profile where it will stay for a couple days. Feel free to contact me if you want to suggest self-help books for all the psychological disorders with which I have been diagnosed here, or if you have suggestions for a new place to keep my opinions.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:00 PM on October 12, 2007
Crafty, don't you think this is just a little extreme? There are no threads even now that are bashing the Yankee's. What's all the shit about self-help books, and psych disorders? Nobody has said that in here.
posted by jojomfd1 at 12:36 PM on October 12, 2007
Sssh. You'll only make him crazier.
posted by yerfatma at 01:00 PM on October 12, 2007
jojo, did you read mbd1's comment above? The one that no one had even the mildest criticism of? Maybe that had something to do with it.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:31 PM on October 12, 2007
Who cares what mbd1 said. He has not put up an FPP in over a year, nor has he even commented until now, in two months. That shows how valuable his opinion is.
posted by jojomfd1 at 01:45 PM on October 12, 2007
for the record... I emailed TCS privately to tell him that I appreciated his support in Fantasy Baseball endeavors and I harbor no ill-will if he parts company. It was a difference of opinion, an argument even. He seemed unsatisfied that I wasn't willing to post that here, so there you go - I thought it was more appropriate offline. I'm not apologizing for my comments though. I'm an asshat and I'm ok with that.
posted by YukonGold at 01:49 PM on October 12, 2007
He has not put up an FPP in over a year, nor has he even commented until now, in two months. That shows how valuable his opinion is. I do. How do we know he's not The Watcher and has read every comment and post in the intervening time? I don't like the idea you have to post to have a worthwhile opinion.
posted by yerfatma at 02:07 PM on October 12, 2007
Executive asshat.
posted by jerseygirl at 02:08 PM on October 12, 2007
That's a good question, yerfatma. I do a LOT of reading. But I can neither confirm nor deny that I am The Watcher. And I haven't posted on the main page in two months, but I have posted in the lockerroom a few times in October, in the picking contests, etc.
posted by mbd1 at 02:48 PM on October 12, 2007
All I know is, I feel someone's hot eyes on me when I shower.
posted by yerfatma at 03:35 PM on October 12, 2007
Probably Santa.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:38 PM on October 12, 2007
He likes to watch.
posted by lilnemo at 04:39 PM on October 12, 2007
Explains me being on the Naughty List every year since puberty.
posted by yerfatma at 04:52 PM on October 12, 2007
Could be the King from the Burger King commercials.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:20 PM on October 12, 2007
Oh no! I hate that guy!
posted by jerseygirl at 05:35 PM on October 12, 2007
I don't like the idea you have to post to have a worthwhile opinion. Allow me to elaborate some on this. I did not mean that you have to post to mean anything at all. Just that TCS had almost doubled mbd1's contributions to the site, and did it in less than a year. Plus TCS was not a bad poster, that is a lot to lose over things like mbd1's post from above. If thats what is even causing it now, and I doubt it is. One more thing, YYM what do you want to do with the king, in a shower?
posted by jojomfd1 at 06:08 PM on October 12, 2007
Do you already have a priest and a rabbi?
posted by yerfatma at 06:24 PM on October 12, 2007
I have had an email exchange with TCS as well, and while I do not apologize for my comments, I do want to apologize for making the mistake of assuming TCS said here that he was goign to quit. I didn't see the deleted comment, but I think I understand now that the threat to quit was in email and not here. That is all.
posted by scully at 07:18 AM on October 13, 2007
Words make my mouth exercise, not my mother. That's just creepy.
posted by SummersEve at 10:45 AM on October 13, 2007
Ugh SE, I guess spell check doesn't catch the wrong word spelled correctly.
posted by Folkways at 01:25 PM on October 13, 2007
I didn't know what song the lyrics were from. You really had me wondering what in the hell you were listening to!
posted by jojomfd1 at 01:56 PM on October 13, 2007
Did we get a special offer on embarrassing new users whose names start with Br?
posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:07 PM on October 13, 2007
Doh... he found the lockerroom.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:58 PM on October 13, 2007
I think he has set a record. The most annoyed spofites in only 10 days. Now he deserves the asshat of the year award. Please tell me he can't post to the front page yet.
posted by jojomfd1 at 02:20 AM on October 14, 2007
He already did. You must not have seen it before it was deleted.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 07:09 AM on October 14, 2007
I'm not sure he even makes top three in that award, jojo.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 07:33 AM on October 14, 2007
So how on earth did he satisfy the non-asshat comments prereq? Doh... he found the lockerroom. Yeah, won't this be interesting.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:35 AM on October 14, 2007
That must have been the fist post about screen savers ever.
posted by apoch at 08:10 AM on October 14, 2007
So how on earth did he satisfy the non-asshat comments prereq? With insightful gems such as : Does anyone care? Is anyone interested? and Women; know your limits.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:04 AM on October 14, 2007
Maybe he'll turn it around. He could be a suffering Yankees fan.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:18 AM on October 14, 2007
Please tell me he can't post to the front page yet. Can and has.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:46 AM on October 14, 2007
He gone. /hawk harrelson
posted by justgary at 04:05 PM on October 14, 2007
You da man Gary! I thought we were going to have to sick lbb on him, pretty soon. That could have been ugly after the women comments. Although we could have sold popcorn.
posted by jojomfd1 at 10:15 PM on October 14, 2007
Damn, that would have been fun to watch. I'm thinking that her computer broke or she was on vacation, and that's why she didn't jump into the "women comments" thread. Either that or she showed greater restraint than I could have mustered. Anyway, thanks Gary.
posted by hawkguy at 10:33 PM on October 14, 2007
We don't check genitalia when handing out SportsFilter accounts. I think we should, purely for size comparison reasons.
posted by HATER 187 at 12:38 AM on October 15, 2007
Presumably it's the smaller the better as with the membership numbers.
posted by squealy at 06:40 AM on October 15, 2007
Damn, that would have been fun to watch. I'm thinking that her computer broke or she was on vacation, and that's why she didn't jump into the "women comments" thread. Either that or she showed greater restraint than I could have mustered. No need; y'all handled it just fine.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:48 AM on October 15, 2007
It still would have been funny to watch!
posted by jojomfd1 at 12:09 PM on October 16, 2007
Not necessarily funny.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:26 PM on October 16, 2007
Well, I suppose folks gotta find their humor where they can. It may be amusing to watch a cro-magnon get a good cock-punching, but I have a hard time being grateful for the occasion.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:52 PM on October 16, 2007
I object both to the gender-specific punishment (along with its concomitant suggestion the poster must have been male) as well as the unwarranted attack on Cro-Magnons.
posted by yerfatma at 02:01 PM on October 16, 2007
Fatty, how do you type with your knuckles dragging on the ground?
posted by hawkguy at 02:17 PM on October 16, 2007
Slowly.
posted by yerfatma at 02:49 PM on October 16, 2007
yerfatma, I thought the cock-punch was the spofi-approved punishment for transgressions of all sorts...no?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:31 PM on October 16, 2007
I think, in order to remain gender-nonspecific, it has been crotch-punch, no?
posted by hawkguy at 04:55 PM on October 16, 2007
thank you hawkguy. We, as women, are only asking for equal treatment. If someone is taking an uppercut to the groinal region, it should be gender non-specific. Its 2007 for crying out loud - women are in space, women vote, women are even allowed to drive! Equal treatment!
posted by jerseygirl at 05:15 PM on October 16, 2007
besides, i believe Monkeyfilter has a trademark on cockpunch.
posted by goddam at 05:35 PM on October 16, 2007
Oh, for...how the hell can you trademark something as fundamental as a cockpunch?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:28 PM on October 16, 2007
You'd think Monkeyfilter would have gone after the Feces Flinging trademark and not cock punching.
posted by apoch at 08:26 PM on October 16, 2007
SpoFi: Beaten to the (cock)punch once again.
posted by wfrazerjr at 09:32 PM on October 16, 2007
At least Daniel-san never did resort to crotch punching.
posted by MrFrisby at 09:59 PM on October 16, 2007
Just last Thursday, I cleaned three rhesus, two dozen spider, and pieces of a few macaques out of my monkey filter. If you don't keep those suckers clean they're a pisser of a fire hazard.
posted by tahoemoj at 03:43 AM on October 17, 2007
I just finished reading this thread. Been very busy lately. I'm not sure what to say. I think the most commonly expressed opinion (that Crafty is overreacting and should get over it and/or grow a thicker skin) is most likely right. I also think that expressing this opinion is certain to not help Crafty actually get over it. So what I'm seeing here is a lot of Red Sox fans/Yankee "haters" who are gleefully happy about being factually correct, and just as gleefully oblivious to their own insensitivity towards others. It reads very much like you're happy to see TCS go. And that sucks.
posted by qbert72 at 04:22 PM on October 17, 2007
Who's happy to see him go? He's a fantastic member. My only rule is to never beg anyone to stay. I hate that bullshit in real life and twice as much on the web.
posted by yerfatma at 07:31 PM on October 17, 2007
Yeah, I don't understand how anyone would be happy to see him go. He added a lot to the site. And please stay yerfatma.
posted by justgary at 09:12 PM on October 17, 2007
Yes, yerfatma, please stay. And here's your cockpunch while you're at it. COCK! PUNCH!
posted by worldcup2002 at 01:13 AM on October 18, 2007
To Fatty, my favorite New Englandah, No I can't forget this evening, Or your face as you were leaving. But I guess that's just the way the story goes. You always smile but in you eyes your sorrow shows. Yes it shows. No I can't forget tomorrow, When I think of all my sorrow, When I had you there but then I let you go. And now it's only fair that I should let you know What you should know I can't live, if living is without you. I can't give, I can't give any more. Can't live, if living is without you. Can't give, I can't give any more. No I can't forget this evening, Or your face as you were leaving. But I guess that's just the way the story goes. You always smile but in you eyes your sorrow shows. Yes it shows. I can't live, if living is without you. I can't give, I can't give any more. Can't live, if living is without you. Can't give, I can't give any more. Nothing says lovin' like Air Supply
posted by HATER 187 at 07:30 AM on October 18, 2007
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do I bless the rains down in Africa Gonna take some time to do the things we never had The wild dogs cry out in the night As they grow restless longing for some solitary company I know that I must do what's right Sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti I seek to cure what's deep inside, frightened of this thing that I've become
posted by yerfatma at 10:50 AM on October 18, 2007
Please. Stop. Can't you have mercy and just do the Red Dawn thing again?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:32 AM on October 18, 2007
Are these odes th the Crafty one? In that case: I'm never gonna dance again Guilty feet have got no rythm Though it's easy to pretend, I know you're not a fool. Should have known better than to cheat a friend and waste this chance that I've been given I'm never gonna dance again The way I danced with you ooo ooo.
posted by hawkguy at 12:03 PM on October 18, 2007
We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind 'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance Well they're no friends of mine Say, we can go where we want to, a place that they will never find And we can act like we come from out of this world Leave the real one far behind And we can dance We can go when we want to, the night is young and so am I And we can dress real neat from our hats to our feet And surprise them with the victory cry Say, we can act if we want to, if we don't nobody will And you can act real rude or totally removed And I can act like an imbecile Say we can dance, we can dance Everything's out of control We can dance, we can dance They're doing it from pole to pole We can dance, we can dance Everybody look at your hands We can dance, we can dance Everybody taken the chance The safety dance The safety dance The safety dance We can dance if we want to, we've got all your life and mine As long as we abuse it we are never going to lose it And everything will work out right Say, we can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind 'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance well they're no friend of mine
posted by jerseygirl at 12:55 PM on October 18, 2007
This is where the line is That I've drawn across the sand And this is where my heart aches Unaware and in my hand This is where it's gone This is where the heartache's going on I can go it alone I can't believe what you're saying I've got to leave for you're sailing on and on I can't repeat what it's all about is wrong I can't believe what you're saying This is how the time goes In an ordinary town And this is how it all ends up When you run the whole thing down This is how it's gone This is how it's already gone and I know You keep going along
posted by MrFrisby at 02:47 PM on October 18, 2007
Why is the bedroom so cold Turned away on your side? Is my timing that flawed, Our respect run so dry? Yet there's still this appeal That we've kept through our lives. Love, love will tear us apart again Do you cry out in your sleep? All my failings exposed. Get a taste in my mouth As desperation takes hold. Is it something so good Just can't function no more? When love, love will tear us apart again
posted by SummersEve at 04:45 PM on October 18, 2007
Staring Through The Eyes Of The Dead hoo hoo, hoohoo ooh hoo hoo, hoohoo ooh hoo hoo, hoohoo ooh hoo hoo, hoohoo ooh hhhhoooooooooooo hoo hoo, hoohoo ooh hoo hoo, hoohoo ooh hoo hoo, hoohoo ooh hoo hoo, hoohoo ooh
posted by NoMich at 05:35 PM on October 18, 2007
I think I sort of love you now, SE.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:42 PM on October 18, 2007
Got no time for the corner boys, down in the street makin' all that noise, Don't want no whores on eighth avenue, cause tonight I'm gonna be with you. Cause tonight Im gonna take that ride, across the river to the jersey side, Take my baby to the carnival, and Ill take you on all the rides, sing sha la La la la la sha la la la. Down the shore everythings alright, you with your baby on a saturday night, Don't you know that all my dreams come true, when I'm walkin' down the street With you, sing sha la la la la la sha la la la. You know she thrills me with all her charms, when Im wrapped up in my Baby's arms, my little angel gives me everything, I know someday that shell Wear my ring. So don't bother me cause I got no time, Im on my way to see that girl of Mine, nothin' else matters in this whole wide world, when you're in love with A jersey girl, sing sha la la la la la la. And I call your name, I cant sleep at night, sha la la la la la la.
posted by HATER 187 at 12:01 AM on October 19, 2007
Oh you're good. You're real good.
posted by jerseygirl at 06:32 AM on October 19, 2007
I think I sort of love you now, SE. Great, now we're going to be torn apart. Ever been torn apart? Me neither, but I bet it hurts.
posted by SummersEve at 07:33 PM on October 21, 2007
I don't know if they'll comment -- one of the people upset with me is an extremely active member who's suggesting he might quit over the post. But I invite them to do so if they think it'll help explain their viewpoint. My slant on the post was chosen because I was trying to emphasize the most interesting aspect of the Yankees' playoff loss -- the likely departures of Torre and some of their biggest names. I'll discuss how I feel about the Yankees if it matters, but I don't think the post as written is particularly slanted. I try not to editorialize on the front page, because it sends a discussion in one direction -- whether the poster is right or wrong -- or even worse, turns it into a metadiscussion about whether the post was fair.