12/21/24
March 26, 2008
Jose Canseco Has 'Stuff' on A-Rod: Throughout this whole somewhat tainted steroids era, Alex Rodriguez's name has never really been slung through the mud. He obviously has a lot of home runs for his age, but he's never hit an exorbitant amount of them in one season. The general perception is A-Rod is just really, really good at what he does.
Jose Canseco has stuff for SALE. He could've mentioned this in his first book; this whole process of drawing out information to maximize the media attention is awful. If he was interested in helping the game, this information would've came out with everything else. It's hard to give a lot of credibility to someone who's doing it for the glory.
posted by dfleming at 11:02 AM on March 26, 2008
It's hard to give a lot of credibility to someone who's doing it for the glory. It's even harder to not believe what he has to say considering that if it wasn't for Jose Canseco, the Mitchell report and this whole investigation of steriods in the sport of baseball would've never took place. I can understand why people would be skeptical considering Canseco freely admitting that he "hate's A-Rod's fucking guts" but he still has shown to be telling the truth in most cases.
posted by BornIcon at 11:12 AM on March 26, 2008
The guy gave up a home run that bounced off his head and out of the park. That's the last time Canseco has done anything that I've paid any attention to.
posted by MGDADDYO at 11:17 AM on March 26, 2008
FPP link is from last year. The updated "dirt" is via Joe Lavin's blog, from the first comment: As for Alex Rodriguez, Canseco says he didn't inject Rodriguez, but that he "introduced Alex to a known supplier of steroids." Canseco didn't mention Rodriguez in the first book because he "hated the bastard." He was worried that people would have "questioned [his] motives" had he included Rodriguez. Why all the hatred, you ask. Well, Canseco claims that A-Rod was trying to sleep with Canseco's wife. Apparently, even after Canseco had been nice enough to help A-Rod find a friendly steroids supplier, A-Rod kept calling Canseco's wife. And, in case there's any further confusion about Canseco's true feelings, he ends the chapter by saying: So A-Rod, if you're reading this book, and if I'm not getting through to you, let's get clear on one thing: I hate your f***ing guts. His argument is (a) I introduced Arod to someone who sold steroids, and (b) he had the hots for my wife. Classy. As much as Canseco probably knows about the inside dealings on MLB steroids, he seems determined to undermine his own credibility at every opportunity.
posted by MKUltra at 11:24 AM on March 26, 2008
Generally speaking, steroids bulk your body way out of proportion from what it was before you started taking. Bonds got big way too quick, so did Mark McGuire. I never saw a significant change in A-Rod's size or shape. He has always had a rock hard solid body with probably the most natural stroke on a baseball that I've seen. Steroids can't enhance that, that's just something that you perfect through hard work and a love for the game.
posted by jackbrandon at 11:32 AM on March 26, 2008
Canseco's stuff on ARod is so airtight that the original ghostwriter left the book. "I'm passing," Yaeger told the Daily News. "I had a chance to review the Jose Canseco (material) that he provided me. I don't think there's a book there. I don't know what they're going to do. I don't think he's got what he claims to have, certainly doesn't have what he claims to have on A-Rod. "There's no meat on the bones."
posted by grum@work at 11:32 AM on March 26, 2008
He's a junkie and a jackass and a huckster and an asshole of the highest order. He's also been (so far, at least) the most credible and consistently honest person in the sport on this topic. You think he's speaking out only in his own self-interest? Compare him to Bud Selig or A-Rod or any other player, executive or pundit, and suddenly he sounds like the friggin' Oracle at Delphi. I see a whole lot of people attacking Canseco's character, and very few attacking the substance of what he's saying. He may or may not have enough proof for this stuff to pass as proper journalism, but he's been right a lot more often than anyone else in baseball seems to feel comfortable admitting.
posted by chicobangs at 11:35 AM on March 26, 2008
Generally speaking, steroids bulk your body way out of proportion from what it was before you started taking. Bonds got big way too quick, so did Mark McGuire. That's wrong. What you take, how much you take, your personal body makeup, all contribute to what exactly will happen to your body. There are plenty of pitchers that have already been busted and their bodies never shot out of proportion. A friend of mine used in college and you couldn't tell at all (I didn't know until he failed the drug test). I used to joke that he must have taken the kind that made you fat, because he was very large in the middle (though strong and fast).
posted by bdaddy at 11:49 AM on March 26, 2008
I see a whole lot of people attacking Canseco's character, and very few attacking the substance of what he's saying. He may or may not have enough proof for this stuff to pass as proper journalism, but he's been right a lot more often than anyone else in baseball seems to feel comfortable admitting. You can't attack what he says. It's all private conversations, introductions and people who *he* saw stick themselves with needles. If all he has on A-Rod is the personal experiences of Jose Canseco, then his character is paramount.
posted by dfleming at 11:58 AM on March 26, 2008
I agree with Mr. chico. Without a doubt, Canseco is a tainted individual. But so are mafia turncoats and their testimony is admitted as evidence in a court of law. If Canseco doesn't write "Juiced" then I believe that baseball and America goes merrily along without Mitchell reports and Congressional investigations and the lot. I also think that Say Hey-Rod offering up "no comment" is not going to cut it. He'll end up looking like Mark Macguire. Nobody here, to the best of my knowledge, has read this new book, so nobody here can villify or vindicate it's contents. But it shouldn't be ignored, in light of the last one. Canseco's picture in the linked article does look suspiciously like Pete Rose.
posted by THX-1138 at 12:17 PM on March 26, 2008
You can't attack what he says. It's all private conversations, introductions and people who *he* saw stick themselves with needles. If all he has on A-Rod is the personal experiences of Jose Canseco, then his character is paramount. Not necessarily. A-Rod had those same conversations. He's never come clean about anything ever in his whole life, to my knowledge. That's fine if you just want to be a mythological figure, a generic wheaties-box hero to The Kids, with a bank account for the ages. But as we now know (thanks primarily to Jose Canseco), a major league baseball locker room is a dirty pool to swim in, and he knows he'll have to do more than glide along on gilded rails, the way he has his entire charmed life so far, to get through this, especially (especially) if his workouts have included anything even close to shady. A denial would be a start. A convincing version of his side of the story would be another. Unfortunately, he's not a very convincing guy, even when he's telling the incontrovertible truth. But unless he's provably clean, he's gotta do something.
posted by chicobangs at 12:28 PM on March 26, 2008
Can we update the FPP with a more recent and defined link? Maybe the one MKUltra provided and supplement it with grum's link? Even a Google turns up more recent and linkworthy information from newsday. July 2007 is too far gone.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:30 PM on March 26, 2008
ALL the players mentioned in the Mitchell Report and all anyone wants to focus on is the best player (arguably) in baseball, whether it be A-Rod, Bonds, etc. If we're to believe steroids are such a huge danger to scores of young people and players, we need to be more concerned with the crappy players who used the substances but still never made it big. They're the overwhelming problem, utilizing substances to try and possibly enhance huge talent they never had. They'll use anything out there to try and get that one contract that may possibly be within their grasp. Canseco, though, is now and will always be, a self-serving asshole (regardless of how his first book impacted the steroids-in-baseball-issue). He only wants to mention any dealings he ever had with the biggest stars in the game as a way to keep his own name in the news (and to sell books). He's already tried to blackmail Magglio Ordonez, and apparently sold his "selective memory" to the Clemens defense team (saying Clemens wasn't at his house when photos apparently show differently). The on-going witch hunt needs to stop, and baseball needs to take over now and implement tougher, meaningful testing.
posted by dyams at 01:04 PM on March 26, 2008
Can we update the FPP with a more recent and defined link? Even a Google turns up more recent and linkworthy information from newsday........July 2007 is too far gone. So why didn't you provide one instead of just commenting about it? The 1st post was to provide a backstory to what Joe Lavin's blog was talking about, regardless what year it was printed and I provided a link to the Lavin blog as well in the 2nd post. He's already tried to blackmail Magglio Ordonez, and apparently sold his "selective memory" to the Clemens defense team (saying Clemens wasn't at his house when photos apparently show differently). Allegedly. My question is: Is Mike Wallace on the juice as well? Now that would be a story.
posted by BornIcon at 01:26 PM on March 26, 2008
Is Mike Wallace on the juice as well? He has bulked up from 89 to 92 pounds.
posted by dyams at 01:55 PM on March 26, 2008
The on-going witch hunt needs to stop, and baseball needs to take over now and implement tougher, meaningful testing. Couldn't agree more. So in which decade do you see that happening?
posted by chicobangs at 02:05 PM on March 26, 2008
Not to put too fine a point on it, but even dick-wads tell the truth from time to time. If Canseco is lying in his book, I'm sure that those named will be suing him for libel. Just like last time. And the only juice Mike Wallace is on is prune.
posted by THX-1138 at 02:08 PM on March 26, 2008
He's a junkie and a jackass and a huckster and an asshole of the highest order. He's also been (so far, at least) the most credible and consistently honest person in the sport on this topic. That sums it up perfectly. I kinda like Canseco at this point, to be honest. He's the Jim Bouton of the juiceball era.
posted by rcade at 02:10 PM on March 26, 2008
I see a whole lot of people attacking Canseco's character, and very few attacking the substance of what he's saying. A denial would be a start. A convincing version of his side of the story would be another. Unfortunately, he's not a very convincing guy, even when he's telling the incontrovertible truth. But unless he's provably clean, he's gotta do something. We've heard for months that Canseco has had something on A-rod. The section of the book about A-rod from the blog doesn't conclude that A-rod really did anything. Canseco introduced Rodriguez to a steroid guy, but what happened after that? I doubt that every single person the steroid guy meets uses steroids. If this is really all the "stuff" Canseco has on A-rod, what's there to deny? I see no crime in being introduced to another person. And unless Canseco can produce taped recordings of A-rod's phone conversations with Canseco's wife, who's to say he was calling her to try to sleep with her? Maybe he just was calling for her recipe for peach cobbler.
posted by chamo at 02:36 PM on March 26, 2008
Maybe he just was calling for her recipe for peach cobbler. I doubt that. Her peach cobbler recipe tasted like arse.
posted by THX-1138 at 02:59 PM on March 26, 2008
Personally, I'm tired of the steroids crap going on, and why does our government need to be involved in something that is happening in private business... I just think we have a lot more problems in this country that warrants our politicians to work on something else... And we wonder why the economy is in such a crappy situation... If these guys want to trash their bodies and wind up with big heads and little winkies, then do it... If cheating is ok with you, then you should be a politician when you retire... lol...
posted by bruce2ww at 03:24 PM on March 26, 2008
uhm . . . you know Jose's not a Congressperson . . . yet, right?
posted by yerfatma at 03:34 PM on March 26, 2008
If Canseco hated A-rod so badly, why would he introduce him to anyone? Friend or foe? I hate your guts, but here's my steroid guy. Doesn't make sense. If this was done before he hated A-Rod, then the argument would be....Can I trust my career to someone I don't know very well? And then introduce him to my steroid guy? I think I would want to be extremly careful of whom I told I was doing roids. As we have found out, as rampant as it is, it is still very secretive.
posted by scuubie at 04:58 PM on March 26, 2008
I wasn't sure if it should be a fpp or not, but y'all are discussing Jose so here it is. Chase Jose by Pat Jordon on deadspin.
posted by apoch at 05:36 PM on March 26, 2008
HOLY SHIT! Canseco's out of Jail????
posted by volfire at 10:19 PM on March 26, 2008
HOLY SHIT! Canseco's out of Jail???? Apparently.
posted by BoKnows at 10:31 PM on March 26, 2008
Jose Conseco is the "Golum" of baseball-Can't play anymore so he tries to steal the "glow" from those who can.
posted by sandskater at 11:58 PM on March 26, 2008
Maybe I missed this, but why didn't Canseco include this stuff about A-Rod in his first book? Was he just waiting until A-Rod enjoyed a huge season in New York, then decided to captitalize? I've said it before, but the ongoing talk does nothing but hurt baseball. OK, Jose, your initial comments years ago led to some much-needed scrutiny towards the issue in baseball. Now it's just doing damage. Everyone involved should realize that, especially at this point, Canseco only wants attention and money. Baseball should tell him, Thanks, best wishes, now go away and live your disgusting life. Canseco doesn't give a damn about the game, and the fact he didn't come out with all his information until he was retired and basically forgotten is sad. Get your shit together, MLB, and let's play ball!
posted by dyams at 07:52 AM on March 27, 2008
He said he left it out because everyone knew he hated A-Rod so he didn't want it to hurt the credibility of the other statements
posted by yerfatma at 08:08 AM on March 27, 2008
I've said it before, but the ongoing talk does nothing but hurt baseball. While I don't think of the PED issue as that dire, I have a hard time accepting this statement. If PEDs are a problem for baseball, then it is the use of PEDs that has hurt the sport, not the release of information about PED use. It sounds like you are advocating a cover-up of any damning PED information that has yet to emerge in an effort to protect baseball. I don't think that's a wise solution at all. Coverups ultimately unravel and backfire. Regardless of Canseco's motives, you have to acknowledge that he has demonstrated more veracity on the PED issue than other players, owners, or even beat writers. The first round of prominent guys he accused have all come to be regarded as legitimate PED users. His first book, while worthless literature, is nevertheless a milestone in the exposure of widespread PED use in MLB. While his motives are sketchy and he's not a wholly consistent witness, we have to lend his accusations some degree of credibility since his past accusations have held up under serious scrutiny. That doesn't mean his most recent statements are necessarily true, though. After all, Canseco is covering for Clemens (against whom a mountain of evidence has been compiled) and apparently offered his silence to Ordonez. So while Canseco's word alone isn't enough to convict A-Rod in the court of my opinion, it also isn't something to be quickly tossed aside. More to the point, though, while I think Jose Canseco is a bad guy, I don't think it's fair to label him THE bad guy of the PED debate. If anything, I'd say the bad guys are the union reps who foolishly stymied efforts to implement PED testing, the owners who turned a blind eye to PED use and made very little effort to stop it, and the star players who have lied about their PED use. Canseco is a sleaze, but at least he has told the truth on an issue about which so many have repeatedly misled the public.
posted by Venicemenace at 08:49 AM on March 27, 2008
Maybe I missed this, but why didn't Canseco include this stuff about A-Rod in his first book? IMO, maybe he wanted to show credibilty with the 1st book so that with the 2nd, people would be like, "Well, he was right in the 1st book so maybe he's on point again." No matter, Canseco is still a scumbag, in my eyes, for throwing these guys under the bus since his playing days are well behind him. I truly never saw the point in revealing what Canseco knew other than the fact that it was a pretty big payday for him. The thing is, how long can that money really last? All he did was make himself a pariah throughout the sport of baseball. Great going there, guy.
posted by BornIcon at 08:49 AM on March 27, 2008
It sounds like you are advocating a cover-up of any damning PED information that has yet to emerge in an effort to protect baseball. That's not it at all. The issue has been exposed. It's out there. The rest is up to Major League Baseball. All that will happen from this point on is scrupulous individuals, media, etc. will only succeed in trashing the biggest names in the game, even though they are nothing more than the tip of the iceberg. You can't go back in time, and what has happened, happened. Baseball is at fault here for never truly monitoring themselves, outlawing use of these substances, and paying attention to what was actually going on, whether it be with great players or shitty ones. What I see going on at this point is people trying to make big stories out of a very few players who have names with cache. Move ahead, not backwards. That's my feeling. True, stict testing will solve the problem and allow the game to prosper, hopefully, in the future. And as for Canseco himself, give him all the credibility you want for bringing this issue into the light, but he's also probably the biggest reason it became a problem for the sport in the first place. If he's the guy injecting guys, introducing steroid dealers to others, etc., then he's nothing but a piece of shit trying to captitalize on an issue. Now he tries to say he has more on A-Rod, but hasn't said it because it's not the right time? Asshole.
posted by dyams at 09:06 AM on March 27, 2008
No matter, Canseco is still a scumbag, in my eyes, for throwing these guys under the bus since his playing days are well behind him. I truly never saw the point in revealing what Canseco knew other than the fact that it was a pretty big payday for him. The thing is, how long can that money really last? All he did was make himself a pariah throughout the sport of baseball. I agree with this entirely. It's not the fact that he's revealing secrets and stopping the silence on steroids that bothers me; if that was all he was doing, I would consider him a hero. It's the fact he's making a buck for having been a scumbag and selling out former teammates and friends to do it. He's maximizing the benefit he can get for himself and, incidentally, getting off the hook for what he did to baseball too. Think about it; more people talk now about Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire being scum and Jose being a hero despite the fact they did the exact same thing to the game. He introduced people to these things. He took them down bad paths. He's no hero. It feels like we're rewarding a drug dealer who can no longer deal drugs for selling out the people he got hooked. Jose cannot benefit from using steroids now; it's amazing that people can look past the fact he just happened to decide to do this when it worked out best for him.
posted by dfleming at 10:29 AM on March 27, 2008
I'm begining to wonder if Canseco is now on Clemens' payroll. Jose is a money whore and Clemens might think if he gets the man who has told the truth, for the most part, to say he's clean then that's a big plus in his column. Canseco's statements about believing what Clemens said at the Congressional hearing goes against almost any logic. I also think Clemens knows there are big cracks in his credibility. A deal with the devil?? I don't know, but, what if??? Go easy, it's only a thought.
posted by gfinsf at 10:29 AM on March 27, 2008
Who is calling Canseco a hero? I have looked and looked for this statement in the comments and just can't seem to find it. I stated before that a guy like Sam Gravano certainly wasn't a hero by any stretch of the word. But he did provide information about the Gambino crime syndicate that may have led to saving people's lives. I'm not looking to vindicate Jose Canseco. But to dismiss any information that he provides out of hand smacks of deliberate ignorance. And if he is lying about any of these athletes, I am certain that they have the wherewithall to sue him for libel. Why haven't they?
posted by THX-1138 at 12:25 PM on March 27, 2008
And if he is lying about any of these athletes, I am certain that they have the wherewithall to sue him for libel. Why haven't they? The hearings, lawsuits, etc. is exactly what I want to go away. What, A-Rod (or whoever) needs to take legal action every time Canseco opens his big, fat mouth? Let Canseco go on spewing his crap. It's only a problem if baseball feels they still have to go delving into the stuff. OK, there's a steroid problem in baseball. We get it. Move forward. If baseball can move on and start taking care of itself, Canseco will lose much of the attention he so craves. He must need a lot of quick cash to keep his women from wanting A-Rod more than him. Canseco started the problem, to a large extent (with his Bash Brother McGwire), and now he wants to keep it going as long as possible to continue profiting.
posted by dyams at 01:10 PM on March 27, 2008
What, A-Rod (or whoever) needs to take legal action every time Canseco opens his big, fat mouth? Yes. A-Rod is a public figure. I say don't let public opinion be decided by statements that are false. If it's not true, what would be the reason to not respond? Dyams, you would like baseball to move forward. First you have to identify the problem. And that should be thorough. Get all the facts. The "We get it. Move forward" tack might not get the job done. As far as Canseco's character is concerned, see my second statement about Sam Gravano.
posted by THX-1138 at 02:21 PM on March 27, 2008
I stated before that a guy like Sam Gravano certainly wasn't a hero by any stretch of the word. But he did provide information about the Gambino crime syndicate that may have led to saving people's lives. Com'on now. Are you implying that because Sammy "The Bull" ratted out his former crime syndicate cronies for his own personal benefit, he's now a good guy? Like "The Bull", Jose Canseco is straight scum no matter which way you wanna look at it. The guy was a problem to the game of baseball and also helped other players taint the game as well. Because he was "black-balled" by baseball, he had no real way of making an income so the guy decided to roll over with the only thing that he had left and that was to tell the tales of a steroid user & provider. When he makes comments that Alex Rodriguez asked him how would one go about purchasing steroids, does that mean that A-Rod did in fact go out an purchase steroids? People truly need to take what Canseco says with a grain of salt because the guy seems as if he's willing to say whatever anyone wants to hear.....for the right price.
posted by BornIcon at 02:34 PM on March 27, 2008
Com'on now. Are you implying that because Sammy "The Bull" ratted out his former crime syndicate cronies for his own personal benefit, he's now a good guy? Yeah, BI, that's exactly what I meant by the statement "wasn't a hero by any stretch of the word". I was comparing situations to show that one's character doesn't always take away from the validity or necessaty of one's statements. It would be stupid to say that both situations are the same. The guy was a problem to the game of baseball and also helped other players taint the game as well. Are you saying that Canseco is the cause of the steroid problem in baseball?
posted by THX-1138 at 02:44 PM on March 27, 2008
If it's not true, what would be the reason to not respond? Public figures have a much higher bar to climb to prove libel in the US due to the Constitution. While it affects the famous in general, it's written that way to make sure we can all express our feelings, how ever ill-considered, about politicians.
posted by yerfatma at 02:48 PM on March 27, 2008
I see your point, Yerfatma. But I still don't see any good reason to not respond. Particularly if you play in New York.
posted by THX-1138 at 02:55 PM on March 27, 2008
Are you saying that Canseco is the cause of the steroid problem in baseball? Yeah, and Canseco is the reason why baseball uni's were form-fitting in the 80's. Com'on now, you know exactly what was meant by that statement. I wasn't the one that said that Canseco injected anyone, that statement was made by Canseco himself so at the time he was playing ball, he was providing people with ways to cheat the game.
posted by BornIcon at 02:55 PM on March 27, 2008
Of course I know what was meant by that statement. Just like you knew what I meant by the Gravano comparison. I thought we were playing the "Let's italicize each other's statements and then act outraged" game. All I am saying is don't dismiss Canseco out of hand because you don't like his character. And give peace a chance.
posted by THX-1138 at 03:04 PM on March 27, 2008
And as for Canseco himself, give him all the credibility you want for bringing this issue into the light, but he's also probably the biggest reason it became a problem for the sport in the first place. Canseco started the problem, to a large extent (with his Bash Brother McGwire), and now he wants to keep it going as long as possible to continue profiting. Dyams, you keep asserting that Canseco is largely responsible for PEDs in baseball. I find this hard to accept since there are PEDs in virtually all sports. Just because he was a user, helped distribute them, and then became a whistleblower (albeit the sleaziest of whistleblowers), it doesn't follow that he was the Johnny Appleseed of roids. The reason it seems like he's at the epicenter of PED use in MLB is because he is one of very, very few players to speak openly and candidly about PED use. That does NOT make him a hero or even admirable, except by contrast with the liars and coverup artists that some of his colleagues have proven to be.
posted by Venicemenace at 03:04 PM on March 27, 2008
Dyams, you keep asserting that Canseco is largely responsible for PEDs in baseball. I find this hard to accept since there are PEDs in virtually all sports. I realize the issue, especially now, is much more widespread. But think back to when Canseco and McGwire were the toast of the game. Why was that? Because they were gigantic, muscular guys who played on the same team, were young, hit tape-measure homers, and even stole a lot of bases (in Canseco's case). Canseco became what he was in the game through the needle. He admits that. He also claims McGwire was his steroid buddy, basically, injecting him several times. And this was back around 1988, when even Barry Bonds was hitting around 20 homers per year. Everyone made a huge deal out of these two freaks of nature, and Canseco became a star because of it. These guys, in my opinion, were the start of the huge-body baseball stars. This was before Bonds, Sosa, and many other big-names in the steroid age were either known at all or morphed into the freaks they ultimately became. Canseco has to accept a role in popularizing it, endorsing it, turning others on to it, introducing dealers to players, and making money due to the body and strength steroids helped afford him. I'm sure PEDs were around in baseball prior to Canseco, but I don't really know of anyone who started the major, popular trend prior to him. The fact it wasn't "discovered" (if you believe that) until much later is where MLB is at fault.
posted by dyams at 03:50 PM on March 27, 2008
It would appear that the assertion that Canseco was a primary player in the introduction and popularization of steroids in baseball would be at least as open to conjecture as the accusations he is making with his two published efforts. Which can be boiled down thusly: Did not. Did too.
posted by THX-1138 at 06:02 PM on March 27, 2008
THX - as far as the libel things go, which looks worse? Suing Jose for Libel and losing or not suing at all?
posted by apoch at 03:01 AM on March 28, 2008
dyams, doesn't that suggest Canseco was the brains behind the movement, an originator who figured out something no one else had really put together? I find it difficult to see that guy as a first mover.
posted by yerfatma at 05:50 AM on March 28, 2008
I thought we were playing the "Let's italicize each other's statements and then act outraged" game. Well, it would've been nice if you told me that we were playing that, I love that game. Now I'm outraged!! Can I get a do-over? All I am saying is don't dismiss Canseco out of hand because you don't like his character. And give peace a chance. It's all about his character. The guy has shown to be a grade A asshat and just because he was on point about a few certain individuals doesn't mean that he's suddenly the truth bearer. As far as peace goes, I'm all about peace but I also love to give my opinion. If anyone actually thinks that just because I may disagree with their opinion that I'm not about peace, then sorry to tell you but your way off base. Let's increase the peace.
posted by BornIcon at 07:00 AM on March 28, 2008
dyams, doesn't that suggest Canseco was the brains behind the movement, an originator who figured out something no one else had really put together? All I know (or remember about it) is that Canseco, and what he could do when he burst onto the scene, was exactly what MLB wanted with regards to marketing. Although never good with the glove, the guy could do everything else, and had the looks (body-type, obvioulsy, included), that represented the direction they wanted to go. I remember playing ball and wanting to look like and play like Canseco. My own workouts were, at my young age, an attempt to look like Canseco. I don't think it's a stretch to believe other young major leaguers wanted to head in that same direction. Canseco wasn't always the dumb-ass former player. He was once, along with McGwire, a huge money-making machine, both personally and for the league. If he didn't start it, I would like to know who else was really responsible for popularizing it. You look at where his career was at, and how it crossed over to where some of the other main players in the steroid mess were at that time, and it becomes hard to ignore. I would never, however, call Canseco the "brains" behind anything. He has always been self-serving, and in this case, he was involved in something that worked for him, and others took notice.
posted by dyams at 07:14 AM on March 28, 2008
I'm not sure, BI, but I think you missed the joke. I'll go over it again. From my statement: All I am saying ---And give peace a chance.---It's a Lennon song. I kind of paraphrased it. I was sort of doing that in this thread. I think you may have misplaced your sense of humor, in regards to what I was trying to say. And like I said, again paraphrasing, just because someone is an asshat, it doesn't mean what they have to say is invalid. But it's not my place to try to change your mind. And I don't actually want to. I was just voicing my opinion along with you all. At some point, well there becomes no point.
posted by THX-1138 at 10:55 AM on March 28, 2008
The real reason Canseco is mad at A-Rod.
posted by goddam at 10:59 PM on March 28, 2008
Wow. I didn't anticipate Jose's prickiness going even higher than it already is, but it's just skyrocketed, like Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator, right through the frickin' roof.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 06:49 AM on March 29, 2008
TBH i agree. Total douchenozzle. I wish he would just go away.
posted by hawkguy at 08:07 AM on March 29, 2008
Also, here's the link to Joe Lavin's blog about purchasing Canseco's new book, "Vindicated: Big Names, Big Liars, and The Battle to Save Baseball" before it's actual release date.