March 11, 2008

Happy Birthday, Billy.

posted by worldcup2002 at 11:58 AM on March 11, 2008

If I may do a Tony Reali impression for a moment: Over or under 1.5 foul balls for Billy Crystal?

posted by chicobangs at 01:02 PM on March 11, 2008

If I may do a Tony Reali impression for a moment: That sounds like the Tony Reali from PTI not Around the Horn so lemme do my Michael Wilbon impression and say UNDER!! ZERO PERCENT!! He won't even make contact unless they throw it underhand.

posted by BornIcon at 01:51 PM on March 11, 2008

Don't blame Billy. Blame the Yankees for providing the opportunity. It's not Billy's decision that affects this unknown youngster. Personally, I blame Gheorghe Muresan. That fucking movie changed a lot of lives and not necessarily in a good way.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:18 PM on March 11, 2008

Whats the fun being rich and famous if you can't use it to do all the cool stuff us working slobs always dreamed of doing? I say go Billy go! Lay down a killer bunt, and pull a hamstring on the way to first base to honor all the guys who will never get the chance.

posted by yankee0758 at 04:33 PM on March 11, 2008

Wool, or cotton?

posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:22 PM on March 11, 2008

This crap has been going on for years. Whether it was George Plimpton putting on the Helmet, or the little guy Bill Veck used to fill the stands, it's a show. Billy Crystal has probably greased the palm of someones charity to do this. The demeanor of the Pirates is critical tho.....They may throw at his head.

posted by scuubie at 05:31 PM on March 11, 2008

Right, because it's 1920 and there are a ton of Moonlight Grahams in the Yankee system whom, if they don't receive one additional at-bat, will never be discovered.

posted by yerfatma at 07:36 PM on March 11, 2008

If I played for the Yankees, I'd rather play golf with Bill Murray, not baseball with Billy Crystal. Oh, to dream. With all the money Crystal has pumped into the Yankees, he deserves one at-bat. But maybe it could happen right before a game, kind of like a honorary first pitch. Get a flame-thrower on the mound, and bean-him. That way, no more celeb athlete wanna-be tries this anymore. (Secretly, I wish I was famous and could do this myself.)

posted by BoKnows at 08:58 PM on March 11, 2008

Right, because it's 1920 and there are a ton of Moonlight Grahams in the Yankee system whom, if they don't receive one additional at-bat, will never be discovered. So you're saying no one ever turned the head of a major-league organization because of a sequence of events that started from one at-bat in a spring training game? You don't have to be Moonlight Graham for that, yerfatma. You just have to be a borderline player struggling to make the big club -- and there's one Yankee who's losing an opportunity for some grandstanding bullshit. dviking, I'm fully aware of how many ABs and looks prospects get. Unfortunately, neither you or I can pick the one that may be the point where that prospect shines -- or conversely fucks up so badly the team knows he's not ready. Well, at least the Yankees will know Crystal isn't.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:10 PM on March 11, 2008

I thought that people here on Sportsfilter would be smarter than that. We are. If you truly think that one at-bat is going to change the fortunes of some poor kid hanging on by his fingernails for a spot on the big club, you're wrong. And, if he's that close to not making the team, he's going to be sent down within the first couple of weeks of the regular season anyway. On edit: goddam is wise.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 06:20 AM on March 12, 2008

All I am saying is if I was on the mound with Billy at the plate, I am drilling him with a fast ball or at least going up and in on him first pitch. I would do it for that poor prospect he took a chance to play in the bigs away from.(sarcasm)

posted by Debo270 at 06:45 AM on March 12, 2008

Hosts the Oscars and saves Major League careers. Wow. Billy Crystal - is there anything you can't do? I wish you were my dad.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:43 AM on March 12, 2008

I just don't get it. I understand what all of you are saying -- but it reads to me like, "Not every at-bat or pitch counts." I don't believe that. I think every at-bat, spring training or not, has some significance. Owlhouse, I already pointed out the possibility of the player screwing himself, but it doesn't matter which way the pendulum swings -- the guy's still not getting a shot. None of us are omniscient, so we have no idea what could or couldn't happen in that AB. Is it even remotely likely that it could change someone's fortunes? No, it isn't. But if you don't think players have been chosen for the last spot on the roster for their performance in one at-bat, I'd strongly disagree. Maybe it's a suicide squeeze by Ensberg or Lane going the other way on an outside pitch to move a runner, but how do those two actions not add up to showcasing what that players can do -- especially if it's something the staff has been trying to get a player to improve upon? Or maybe it's a kid who hasn't been shipped out yet who gets a hit against a tough pitcher. Does he make the team because of that at-bat? No, but does it put in the minds of the organization, "Hey, maybe we need to think about fast-tracking this one a bit?" Why wouldn't it? Folks, there's three weeks left in the spring schedule. This isn't the final game of Grapefruit League, where everything's already packed and all the decisions are made. What are the odds (despite goddam's link) that the decision does come down to Lane and Ensberg? The Yankees are positive there aren't going to be any injuries? No one else might be signed as a minor-league FA? *sigh* Fine, have it your way. As I said, I hold no grudge against Crystal himself, and if anyone deserves to be gifted in this sense, it's probably him. I just don't agree with it, and I think the reasoning being tossed out here -- let him have his at-bat because it doesn't matter anyway -- is pretty crappy. Where's erkno? I'd like to know what he'd think about this.

posted by wfrazerjr at 08:47 AM on March 12, 2008

The outcome is not the issue. Taking the possibility of the outcome away from someone deserving is.

posted by wfrazerjr at 01:00 PM on March 12, 2008

Stupid move by the Yankees, sure, but I don't think it's all that devastating and damning for all the younger players Crystal will take time from. He will make an appearance and that will be it. I've got a pretty good idea the Yanks know what the roster they're going north with will look like, and where everyone else pretty-much fits into the picture.

posted by dyams at 03:58 PM on March 12, 2008

What if that at-bat injures a unknown future star and he winds up never making the majors because he wasn't saved by a celebrity? What of that possibility? Maybe Crystal takes a set of spikes in the groin, instead of an unknown future star?

posted by grum@work at 04:28 PM on March 12, 2008

I like Crystal, but I hate this crap. He'll be taking away an at-bat or an inning in the field from some youngster who might be able to do something with it. Com'on now, we're talking about Spring Training here, not Game 7 of the World Series. These games don't even count and after all the talk that we been hearing about steroids this off season, what's so wrong about having a little fun? Who is this really gonna hurt? If an 'unknown future star' hasn't impressed Girardi by now then maybe they do need to spend more time in the minors.

posted by BornIcon at 09:08 AM on March 13, 2008

Mental exercise: When spring training is over and the go-north-25 rosters are set, let's go over the list of players who didn't make the Yankees' cut and try to determine which one of them would have benefitted from the extra couple of at-bats, and might have grabbed that last spot from someone else. If someone can find me a legitimate case where a player might have lost his chance at the majors because of this stunt, I'll concede that it shouldn't have happened.

posted by grum@work at 12:21 PM on March 13, 2008

He struck out on 6 pitches. Cody Ransom, oh what could've been.

posted by goddam at 12:44 PM on March 13, 2008

He didn't look too bad for a guy 59 years old. Really, not bad at all.

posted by THX-1138 at 01:03 PM on March 14, 2008

I'm sure that if Billy Crystal had been given another at-bat, instead of letting some big-name celebrity (like Alex Rodriguez) take it from him, he wouldn't have been cut by the Yankees today.

posted by grum@work at 07:49 PM on March 14, 2008

Those one-day contracts just aren't fair to the athletes! Screw Steinbrenner!

posted by dyams at 07:28 AM on March 15, 2008

Screw Steinbrenner! Yeah! And screw all you Yankees fans. And Red Sox fans. I hate this thread. Boorrriiinnnggg! Just like soccer! I hate that stuff too. And the Patriots are the devil and their coach is a poorly outfitted nevish. Sorry, I just really had to take a piss.

posted by tahoemoj at 01:45 PM on March 15, 2008

wfrazejr, your mental exercise is definitely possible. But I agree with tahoe about the magnitude of the AB when the team in question is the Yankees. After reading the thread and posts I decided to pose the question to a local sportswriter who has been covering the St. Louis Cardinals for years. I explained to him the discussion happening here, then posed this question: Will a franchise put a player on the roster because of ultimately, one at-bat? His response was: In my opinion, no. Moreover, in spring training games there are quite a few meaningless at-bats, taken by guys who have no chance to make the team but they get the opportunity for different reasons. Maybe it's a split squad, and the team has two different games going on at the same time. Maybe because of injuries. Maybe because regular players are resting. Managers use so many hitters in these games that one AB by a celeb is of no consequence whatsoever. While I wouldn't consider any opinion as "religion", I think he nailed it on the head. I didn't ask him in order to prove anybody right or wrong, I asked simply to get an opinion from someone who has routine contact with a MLB team and personnel. Finally, Crystal did alright, much better than I expected. Cheers to him. Do you think he sat on the bench doing the "Hey batter, batter" thing?

posted by BoKnows at 03:24 PM on March 15, 2008

Grum, you've been the most vocal about tangible proof of someone not making the roster -- if Castro gets released by the Yankees completely before the end of spring, can you provide me evidence that one at-bat couldn't have helped changed the course of his year and the remainder of his career? Sure: Bernie Castro's minor league numbers: In 3134 plate appearances, he has a .700 OPS. He has more strikeouts than walks, and virtually no power (sub .360 SLG). He plays a position that is currently occupied by Robinson Cano, a player that is 2.5 years younger than him and is considered one of the premier players at his position in the American League. The Yankees think that Bernie Castro is so important to their future and has the potential to make the big club that they've given him a total of 9 at-bats. Either he's going to make the squad as a backup (so they don't feel the need to watch him anymore), or he has almost no hope of making the squad in the first place (so they are giving at-bats to players that they plan to keep in the majors, like Chris Woodward, who is tearing the cover off the ball in spring training). It is a RARE event that a player who has sucked in the minors has had such a spectacular spring training that he's made the big league team. The usual path is performing well in the minors during April/May and getting a call-up when injury/suckitude require it (example: Derek Jeter in 1995), regardless of your spring training performance. Yes, you could do the "what-if" scenario all you want and propose a story where the unheralded player catches his manager's eye. However, you are more likely to be watching a case where Girardi put Castro in the lineup to give someone else a rest and really doesn't care what Castro does because he and the GM have decided that Woodward is the back-up middle infielder to start the season, and Castro is going to fill the roster spot at AAA until needed. Finally, Crystal didn't take any struggling minor-leaguer's at-bat; he took Johnny Damon's, rendering this entire mental exercise moot.

posted by grum@work at 04:10 PM on March 15, 2008

Answering in order: Tahoe, it is a disagreement over the value of an at-bat. I agree the chances are slim for that single AB to do much of anything -- but slim is greater than none, which is the value gained by the giving of a plate appearance to a 60-year-old comedian. As for the morale issue, if you need to have Shecky Greene come in and provide comic relief to boost your troops, something is seriously fucked up in your clubhouse. Bo, did you ask Rick Hummel? And if you did, the question you posed doesn't exactly frame my argument. The question would be more like: Could an outstanding at-bat for a borderline major leaguer earn him a bench spot, or at least make the organization be more likely to keep him around in the minors rather than waive him at the end of spring training? In my eyes, no one could honestly answer that question in the negative, and then logically, no club should be wasting at-bats. There's something to be gained from every one of them, and I don't mean in a touchy-feely lovefest sort of way. Oh, and if you see Jeff Gordon, tell him I said hi. Grum, none of what you listed is tangible proof. I wasn't actually expecting any, because I don't think it's possible to have it in this case, is it? It's all subjective, even if Crystal tears a hammy in the on-deck circle, Castro bats, homers and makes the team. The Yankees could still say, "Nah, we had him on the team the whole time." You use stats to make a good case for why Castro probably won't make the team, but I think you make my argument also by proving that it's something more than stats that keeps a ballplayer around. Who could possibly use the AB more than Castro, a guy the Yankees think highly enough of to have kept in Triple A all season last year even though they have Robinson Cano in front of him? The organization apparently sees something in Castro that keeps him useful to them. If anyone needs a place to show what he could do, it's Bernie, and if he doesn't get another at-bat before the end of the spring, that will mean Billy Crystal got 10% of his time at the dish. (Yes, yes, I know Damon was supposed to lead off. But Castro could have led off, or if Damon had led off the game, he might have been taken out after the third AB and Castro comes off the bench. Or someone else. It's a lost AB no matter who misses it, and I don't think -- especially in spring training -- that you can say, "Oh, that was Damon's AB he took.") I'll close that in Roger Angell's terrific Memories of Summer, he writes about Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis clowning around out on the field during spring training with the New York Giants. When the same request was made of the Cleveland Indians, general manager Hank Greenberg said, "Absolutely not. Do I send my ballplayers on to the sets of your damned movies?" I'd feel the same as a manager. I'm here to evaluate talent and run a ballclub. You want to hobnob with movie stars, go sit courtside with Jack. Where's erkno?

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:59 PM on March 15, 2008

Bo, did you ask Rick Hummel? No, but if you're familiar with Rick Hummel, (the other) Jeff Gordon and The Post Dispatch, then you're third choice would be the right one. And if you did, the question you posed doesn't exactly frame my argument. Maybe not, but the build up I gave him, wfrazejr, you would be proud. I didn't short anyone's argument, yours included. I absolutely understand your point-of-view, I just don't think a MLB franchise is blind enough to let a player slip through the cracks if that player is capable of what you describe. Those professional attributes are what got the player to spring training in the first place.

posted by BoKnows at 11:33 PM on March 15, 2008

As I said earlier, if Crystal had been playing in an A league game, maybe even a AA game, you'd have more of a point about him taking the "career making" AB away from someone. As it was, it was the Yankee's Major League team. And, he took one of Damon's AB's. Damon will be on the roster, so no damage done. To speculate that Castro, or anyone else, was going to get that AB is silly. As grum pointed out, there were multiple opportunities had the Yankees wanted to see one more AB out of anyone. let it rest, it was a publicity stunt, nothing more.

posted by dviking at 12:33 AM on March 16, 2008

So wait, because of Billy Crystal, the Yankees cut Johnny Damon?

posted by The_Black_Hand at 11:01 AM on March 16, 2008

Grum, I'd say inviting in ballplayers to be ballplayers in a movie is a bit different than inviting comedians to be ballplayers in a game and not remotely close to the point I was making. However, maybe we can both agree that Derek Jeter and Wayne Gretzky should never appear on a sketch-comedy show again. Actually, the last link was Sandy Koufax appearing on a couple of television shows as just a bit player. Do you think the Studio Actors Guild complained about him taking the spot of some young actor? Maybe that appearance by the actor as "Policeman" could have shown the director that he is capable of standing still in the background, and opening doors and saying "Yes, sir." It isn't much, but it could have been enough to get him a regular role on a crime drama. So if Sandy Koufax is allowed to steal jobs from meaningless background actors, then I think it's fair that Billy Crystal is allowed to have one single at-bat in a spring training game.

posted by grum@work at 04:19 PM on March 16, 2008

So a spring training AB is of the same importance as a non-speaking role on a TV show? I think that sums up our difference quite nicely. I agree, dyams. If there was anyone in the world who deserved this, it's Crystal, who has been a non-stop love fountain for the game since I can remember. He didn't look any worse than Willie McGee used to look on a few swings. The difference is, Willie might hit the next pitch at his shoetops for a triple in the gap.

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:03 AM on March 17, 2008

Wow, I just thot this was a fun story when I posted it. But you guys have taken it to another level. I'm not sure what that level is, but it sure ain't where I had it. My work here is done.

posted by worldcup2002 at 05:43 PM on March 17, 2008

Again, my point is that I think every AB counts. Everyone else in the world feels otherwise. I'm fine with that, and if that trip to the plate was going to be wasted (in my opinion), Billy Crystal's a fine guy to waste it on. Fair enough. Thanks for your input, THX. I'd say that despite my disagreeing with Grum, Weedy, Tahoe and BoKnows, the argument was carried out on both sides with honour and intelligent discourse. Feel free to go fuck yourself.

posted by wfrazerjr at 10:22 PM on March 17, 2008

Yeah, well, upon reflection ... I should go fuck myself. Not for carrying out my argument (which should have been done with several of you over St. Patrick's Day pints), but for that unnecessary outburst. My apologies, THX.

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:27 AM on March 18, 2008