12/22/24
February 09, 2006
Wie can "earn" exemption to U.S. Women's Open,: which is the stance of the USGA at this current time. Apparently the 16-year-old can earn yet another free pass if she plays well enough in the LPGA events leading up to the Open. Fellow teen phenom Morgan Pressel thinks Wie should go through qualifying. I think she should too. Her free rides should end. Time to start earning her spot.
posted by donnnnychris to golf at 01:19 AM - 52 comments
Like it or not, Wie is the biggest name in women's golf at the moment, regardless of whether or not she should be. To not have her in the tournament would be ridiculous. I'm slightly surprised that a player who finishes in the top three of two of the previous year's majors doesn't get an invite automatically, but be that as it may, her case is exactly why the USGA reserves the right to dish out special invites. It would clearly be better for her to qualify by winning something on the run in - not only for her game, but to silence some of her more vehement critics - but if she doesn't, she should get an invite. To not have her there would be a farce.
posted by JJ at 04:54 AM on February 09, 2006
When Wie the marketing tool ends, Wie the golfer will have to step up. Until the corporations, PGA and LPGA stop giving her a free ride just so they can have her in their tournaments, she'll continue to take the exemptions. Sure it's not fair to other golfers who have to qualify, but then, I'm not sure fairness is high on the priority list of those giving the exemptions. The bottom line is what matters most to them, and Wie the marketing tool brings in the bucks.
posted by roberts at 04:57 AM on February 09, 2006
As for the end of the "free ride" - Tiger played in Dubai last week. The tournament organisers paid him US$3 million just to turn up. The word on the well-manicured fairway was that he had two suites at the Burj Al Arab (costing in the region of $2,000 per night, per suite) all week and a helicopter to and from the course each day (paid for by the organisers). It would seem that, for some, the free ride never ends.
posted by JJ at 05:11 AM on February 09, 2006
From the story:
... one reason Wie received a special invitation in 2004 was because money she would have earned on the LPGA was equivalent to the top 35 on the LPGA money list, which is one of the criteria for being exempt. Wie turned pro in October, although she is not a member of the LPGA Tour because of her age. Whatever money she earns does not appear on the money list.The U.S. Women's Open begins June 29. If Wie earns enough money in the 15 tournaments before the open to show up in the top 35 on the money list -- if she were allowed in the LPGA at her age -- she deserves the exemption.
posted by rcade at 07:12 AM on February 09, 2006
Wie doesn't belong playing on the PGA Tour. She is taking spots from PGA players that earn their living playing golf. She hasn't shown that she can compete against them, and should try and win something on the lpga before she gets any type of chance to play against the men. She should be made to qualify to play in a mens event, and I really don't think she would ever qualify for one.
posted by clubs at 07:25 AM on February 09, 2006
clubs - that's all well and good (although, I'm sticking with the notion that the tournament directors can invite whoever the hell they want to their tournaments), but has nothing to do with the article.
posted by JJ at 07:35 AM on February 09, 2006
I think some people didn't read the link. rcade and Mr. Fay make a reasonable argument. Of course she should be exempt if she earns enough! She should have to go to qualifying just because she's too young to appear on the money rankings? That's silly.
posted by Amateur at 07:48 AM on February 09, 2006
I think Pressel's needs to realize that Wie brings media attention which helps all women golfers?
posted by bperk at 08:16 AM on February 09, 2006
She is taking spots from PGA players that earn their living playing golf. Yes, God save the poor white golfer (singular) that has lost his ability to feed his family by playing a game. Someone start a fund.
posted by yerfatma at 08:19 AM on February 09, 2006
Ack - yes as I recall Wie has had some more than impressive finishes in the past few majors. She gets the invite by virtue of her play inasmuch as her celebrity. Some of you guys are just being contrarian because it feels good - but not because of the ol' facts. Though the bright side to all this is with Pressel, Wie, Gublis, and others that I'm forgetting right now - Women's golf looks to have some serious talent coming in. Ladies, Wie is going to help those purses go up, up and away.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:36 AM on February 09, 2006
yerfatma: Yes, God save the poor white golfer (singular) that has lost his ability to feed his family by playing a game. Someone start a fund. Do you actually have a point, or are you just tossing race into this debate like some people like to fart in elevators?
posted by L.N. Smithee at 09:18 AM on February 09, 2006
JJ: As for the end of the "free ride" - Tiger played in Dubai last week. The tournament organisers paid him US$3 million just to turn up. The word on the well-manicured fairway was that he had two suites at the Burj Al Arab (costing in the region of $2,000 per night, per suite) all week and a helicopter to and from the course each day (paid for by the organisers). It would seem that, for some, the free ride never ends. Tiger Woods is the most famous golfer in the world, is probably the best golfer in the world, and one of the most recognized men in the world. Who's the best female golfer in the world? Annika Sorenstam. IMHO, it's arguable whether or not Michelle Wie is the best teenage golfer in the world. Nice try.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 09:26 AM on February 09, 2006
Her play at last years majors should be enough to allow her to play in the u.s. open.... similar finishes in the mens majors would exempt her from qualifying. Some of y'all are forgetting she is a kid. True, she has not won yet, but when she breaks through, I predict a torrent of victories from her.
posted by mjkredliner at 09:47 AM on February 09, 2006
Do you actually have a point, or are you just tossing race into this debate like some people like to fart in elevators? Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you that dull? My point was the discriminated-upon group clubs identified doesn't exist. "White" wasn't a particularly important modifier. Nice try.
posted by yerfatma at 10:02 AM on February 09, 2006
I think Pressel's needs to realize that Wie brings media attention which helps all women golfers? bperk..I think you fail to realize that the attention given to Wie takes away from female golfers who are actually playing well. They are overlooked.
posted by vbgjr88 at 10:41 AM on February 09, 2006
bperk..I think you fail to realize that the attention given to Wie takes away from female golfers who are actually playing well. They are overlooked. I disagree. She doesn't just divert attention, she brings media to the game that wasn't paying attention to women's golf at all. It's a similar situation to Tiger -- more people tune in when he is in the mix because more people care. The publicity that Tiger gets is good for all the players. The same goes for Wie. Mainstream audiences watching women's golf, no matter who brought them there, is better for everyone.
posted by bperk at 11:02 AM on February 09, 2006
Morgan Pressel is a firey competitor who, at 17, is probably the second best female teenage golfer (Paula Creamer being the best). Wie has the physical attributes to be dominant, but it seems Pressel and Creamer already know how to win. Wie needs to play to win tournaments and learn to win tournaments, not just make the cut.
posted by Desert Dog at 11:03 AM on February 09, 2006
you fail to realize that the attention given to Wie takes away from female golfers who are actually playing well Takes what away from them? Media coverage? Why would they care about that when the media attention generated by Wie secures sponsors for the tour as a whole and will (if it hasn't already) increase prize money? The other female players who are playing well should be loving it - they scoop the money while Wie answers the stupid questions. Someone start a fund. They have, haven't they? L.N. Smithee - the reason Tiger got what he got last week (and gets what he gets every other week) is that the organisers wanted him in their tournament. That want on their part though is not some personal whim, but a business decision. You can be sure they generated comfortably more revenue because he was playing than they paid him to play. Tournament organisers have to go looking for sponsors, and the first thing those potential sponsors will want to know is who is playing in the tournament. In the men's game, they're going to ask "Is Tiger playing?", and in the women's game, regardless of how well Anika is playing these days or has played in the past, they're going to ask "Is Wie playing?" Granted, the USGA probably likes to think of itself as being above such petty financial concerns, but they are still dedicated to putting together the strongest field they can for any given tournament. Regardless of your personal view of how well or badly Wie has done, a field without her in it is clearly missing something. I'm not arguing that she's the best female player in the world, or even that she's going to be, I'm just saying that she's clearly a big draw for TV and through the turnstiles. For what it's worth (which is nothing as I'm not affiliated to the USGA and have no say in the decision), I think that even if you set all of that aside and just considered her play, she has done enough (and more than many who will automatically qualify) to get an invite. The "nice try" thing was a nice touch though - I can see that taking off and attaining catchphrase status around here. I see that yerfatma has begun the campaign himself.
posted by JJ at 11:22 AM on February 09, 2006
i think the fact that there is interest and debate over women's golf is great. let her play in the US open if she woud have qualified for being in the top 35. just having her in the field increases the interest and will also help showcase some of the other terrific women's golfers coming up right now.
posted by erkno11 at 11:25 AM on February 09, 2006
Wie needs to play to win tournaments and learn to win tournaments, not just make the cut. Give her time - she's been a pro for five minutes. David Duval turned pro in 1993 and didn't win until the very end of 1997 (when he won three in a row). Many other excellent players go their whole careers without winning anything. Besides, you say that as though she currently isn't trying to learn how to win tournaments - how else does one go about learning to win if not by losing?
posted by JJ at 11:30 AM on February 09, 2006
What erkno11 said. If she plays, people will tune in to watch and end up seeing whoever wins (whether it's Wie or not). The ladies tour benefits from the extra interest. If she doesn't play, the story becomes "So-and-so won, but Wie wasn't playing." and the ladies tour (and the USGA) end up looking stuffy and ridiculous for not inviting her.
posted by JJ at 11:32 AM on February 09, 2006
yerfatma: Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you that dull? My point was the discriminated-upon group clubs identified doesn't exist. "White" wasn't a particularly important modifier. Nice try. Here is what clubs wrote that invoked your response, in toto: Wie doesn't belong playing on the PGA Tour. She is taking spots from PGA players that earn their living playing golf. She hasn't shown that she can compete against them, and should try and win something on the lpga before she gets any type of chance to play against the men. She should be made to qualify to play in a mens event, and I really don't think she would ever qualify for one. Nothing about a "discriminated-upon group" was even alluded to in his comment, yet you responded as if there was. And talk about disingenousness -- you want us to believe that when making a sarcastic remark about discrimination in the golfing world, "'White' wasn't a particularly important modifier." Uh huh. Here's a tip for the future: Race ALWAYS is an important modifier. If someone chooses to call you an "idiot," there's no doubt they are insulting you personally. If that person chooses to call you a "(fill in your race/ethnicity here) idiot," he is insulting you and your ancestors. Big diff.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 12:22 PM on February 09, 2006
She is taking spots from PGA players that earn their living playing golf. Doesn't that allude to a discriminated-upon group? Seems pretty clear to me: clubs is complaining that Wie is getting an unfair advantage (i.e. discrimination) over PGA players. yerfatma is right to call bullshit on that statement. On the other hand I agree that there is no purpose to dragging the word "white" into this; it adds nothing to the argument and may not even be true, in the instance.
posted by Amateur at 12:32 PM on February 09, 2006
I'll cop to that, it was a snide remark meant to conjure images of Ted Knight in Caddyshack.
posted by yerfatma at 01:36 PM on February 09, 2006
On the other hand I agree that there is no purpose to dragging the word "white" into this; it adds nothing to the argument and may not even be true, in the instance. Typical response from The Man. Until you've stayed out until 4am on a Wednesday night - practicing your backswing on the mean streets of Harlem, knowing that this is your one true chance at making something out of yourself, ignoring the boos and jeers of the Hungarians and Eskimos that lean out of their tenement windows (they yell in anger about the cracking smack smack smack of your 3-wood connecting with the ball because they have to get up tomorrow to work at their minimum wage jobs, but you won't give up your dream for them: your parents didn't move from Madagascar with hopes of a world where rhinoceros beetles aren't common for nothing, and just because your father is half-French doesn't make you a quitter) - you know nothing. Nice try, cracker.
posted by Samsonov14 at 01:40 PM on February 09, 2006
This is a very simple problem to solve. If Wie wants to play with the big girls, earn your way in. As is life, earning what you get is far better than someone handing it to you. I have to earn my pay check every week. Wie can do the same thing.
posted by dbt302 at 02:02 PM on February 09, 2006
Samsonov: Don't call them eskimos. "Inuit" is the preferred nomenclature, dude. Last year, no one was really sure what to make of this situation. Now everyone seems to be on the case, and a little drama and tension on the tour is a good thing. If Wie and Pressel (or Creamer) are in the final pair on a Sunday (a very real possibility on any given week), the odds of people watching will be higher now, knowing they don't like each other.
posted by chicobangs at 02:06 PM on February 09, 2006
JJ: Besides, you say that as though she currently isn't trying to learn how to win tournaments - how else does one go about learning to win if not by losing? Face it, Wie isn't playing to win in the PGA tourneys, she's playing to make the cut, which will be a "moral victory" and burst open the floodgates of media attention and even more endorsement cash. But when it comes down to the actual competition, she's not going to win, and she knows it. But it doesn't matter, because -- to paraphrase Don Henley -- she'll make more money can all everybody wants to do is dance around the fact that she hasn't proven she's worth the attention.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 02:16 PM on February 09, 2006
Smithee -- you do realize that we are talking about Wie and the LPGA (as opposed to PGA), right? Wie has been successful in LPGA tournaments. From the article: The 16-year-old from Hawaii is exempt into the other three majors based on her '05 performance – runner-up at the LPGA Championship, and a tie for third at the Women's British Open. Along with being the biggest draw in women's golf, one reason Michelle received a special invitation in 2004 was because money she would have earned on the US LPGA was equivalent to the top 35 on the money list, which is one of the criteria for being exempt.
posted by bperk at 02:25 PM on February 09, 2006
Wow, I didn't think this would bring out this many responses...so many good points made, and some I hadn't considered. I actually changed my mind on being so hard-line on actually qualifying through the U.S. Open process (due to so many good points made above). As for Wie going through U.S. Open qualifying or not qualifying in the traditional way, I do agree she is the biggest draw in women's golf in terms of viewership and potential sponsorship, but at the same time the U.S. Open is the one tournament that is supposed to be above that and just allows the players that qualify into its field. Usually the exemptions are reserved for honoring a player who has had a long distinguished career in the game (and in particular the Open), such as Nancy Lopez for the women or Jack Nicklaus for the men. The practice of allowing a player a special exemption due to media appeal is relatively new. Also, Tiger was never given a spot in the men's U.S. Open until he earned it. There is a big difference with how he came up and how Wie is being treated in this regard. Woods did get the big Nike contract right out of the gate but he didn't get into the majors on special exemptions, he earned them by winning amateur events or by playing well enough the year before to be invited back. Wie did this in 2004 by finishing 13th in the U.S. Open, thus earning her spot for the 2005 tournament (top 20 plus ties get an automatic spot). But in 2005 she imploded in the final round and fell to 23rd. Now, all that said, I agree with most who say if she plays well enough and earns enough money so she would be in the top 35 of the money list heading into the U.S. Open, then she should get a spot. The debate over whether she should have full LPGA status at 16 is a whole different issue and a good one but still, if she does earn enough money that would be "earning" her spot in my book. At the same time, if she doesn't play well enough, she shouldn't get in. She did play well in the other majors last year but the qualification criteria for the women is slightly different than the men so apparently she isn't on the automatic invite list for those efforts. That's just the way it goes. Personally, I hope she plays well enough this year and gets an invite. It's true that a women's U.S. Open without her in it at this point would be "ridiculous" to quote an earlier comment. She is the future of women's golf, along with Creamer, Pressel, Gulbis and a host of other talented ladies. Either way, isn't it cool that women's golf is actually a hot topic these days? God, what a great game golf is.
posted by donnnnychris at 02:30 PM on February 09, 2006
to paraphrase Don Henley To directly quote Mike Skinner, "Has it come to this?" Let us never be so base or profane we quote an Eagle.
posted by yerfatma at 02:43 PM on February 09, 2006
Man, I hate the fucking Eagles.
posted by HATER 187 at 03:08 PM on February 09, 2006
Let us never be so base or profane we quote an Eagle. Johnny Can't Read Football, baseball, basketball games Drinkin' beer, kickin' ass and takin' down names With the top down, get-a-round, shootin' the line Summer is here and Johnny's feelin' fine But Johnny can't read Summer is over and he's gone to seed Johnny can't read He never learned nothin' that he'll ever need Well, Johnny can dance and Johnny can love Johnny can push and Johnny can shove Johnny can hang out; Johnny can talk tough Johnny can get down and Johnny can throw up But Johnny can't read Summer is over and he's gone to seed (You know that), Johnny can't read He never learned nothin' that he'll ever need Well, is it Teacher's fault? Oh No! Is it Mommy's fault? Oh No! Is it society's fault? Oh No! Well is it Johnny's fault? OhhHHH NooOOO!
posted by Samsonov14 at 03:13 PM on February 09, 2006
I have to earn my pay check every week. Wie can do the same thing. For the love of Touchdown Jesus. Can we stop turning every story in sports into "Pampered Ingrate Athlete Gets the Goldmine, Hard-Working Common Man Gets the Shaft"? Do you earn your paycheck every week, dbt, or are there times you're coasting through work -- reading a sports weblog on the clock at 2 p.m. on a Thursday, perhaps -- and getting more than you might otherwise deserve? Exemptions exist in golf primarily to get people into tournaments who are crowd-pleasers, since crowds equals money equals happy sponsors. Wie has shown in the LPGA she deserves to be counted among the top 35 players, which is all she'd have to prove at age 21 to be exempt at the Open. The only thing holding her back is an arbitrary LPGA age requirement. If a sponsor wants her in, fans want her in, and she's good enough to compete and possibly win, who cares how she got in? This whole "I earned everything I ever got" shtick is really old, and I suspect in most of our cases completely fake. I didn't earn everything I got, personally. I spent a lot of time slacking. I'm slacking right at this very moment.
posted by rcade at 03:14 PM on February 09, 2006
Rogers, the people you see from the top of your high horse must look like ants. Don't treat them that way, though. Clearly, you don't understand the difficulties that the common man faces every day. I didn't earn everything I got, personally. I spent a lot of time slacking. Yeah, well try spending a lot of time not being able to read! How high is your horse now, Cadenhead? Oh, still pretty high? Maybe I don't understand this metaphor. It's a horse, and you're riding it, and the horse is big. Right? What's wrong with having a big horse? Anyway, to be honest, this is one of the few threads that made me change my mind. You're right, Rcade. Wie should play. And for the record, that "Touchdown Jesus" thing is pretty funny. Back to you, Katie.
posted by Samsonov14 at 03:33 PM on February 09, 2006
*Applause* I know I'm constantly sucking up to rcade - but hear, fucking hear. If you're into the whole lower income honourable bullshit, you need some wake up slaps upside the melon. Enough with the sour grapes.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:34 PM on February 09, 2006
yerfatma: Your self righteous, pseudo intellectual bullshit wears thin. You spend more time placing your self or your opinions above those of others than you do commenting on the linksthreads, Also, if you have to explain a joke, or an attempt to conjure up an image, it wasn't funny, or meaningful. By the way, there are many struggling male professional golfers, who indeed are more deserving of a spot in a tournament than Wie, or the usual cast of has-beens who routinely get those spots. It is the sponsors choice, I understand, and of course, they are going to choose a name that translates into more tickets sold/higher tv ratings. If she could compete at the mens level, it would be one thing, but she has not shown she can. Base,profane indeed. Who the fuck is Mike Skinner? Don Henley has more talent in his little finger than every member of "The Streets" band does put together.
posted by mjkredliner at 04:00 PM on February 09, 2006
Goodness, redliner, did you even read the other posts? Once again, we are talking about the LPGA, not the PGA. Wie's getting an exemption in no way affects any "struggling male professionals". Those folks are not allowed to play in any ladies tournament. Stay focused.
posted by bperk at 04:07 PM on February 09, 2006
Once and fa all, Annika has a better chance winning a major (PGA Champ.) than Wie. Wie cannot win any mens event. Wie is heck of a lot hotter than Annika, but not a better player than Annika. However, Annika is not an ugly woman, by any means. So go Annika, from America to the Riksdag!!!
posted by Joe88 at 04:27 PM on February 09, 2006
The LPGA and the PGA is searching for their next minority superstar, a star to boost ratings, popularity, and interest into golf. The media know dominance in sports sells, but sorry Wie will never dominate. Especially in PGA. Maybe she should qualify and win women events before even letting PGA cross her mind
posted by sgtcookzane at 05:05 PM on February 09, 2006
Those suggesting the whole "celebrity teen Asian chick enriches golf for all women" might care to ask themselves whether Anna K "enhanced tennis for all women" or just encouraged a bunch of tennis-illiterate horndogs to ogle tennis players and make boorish comments about their outfits.
posted by rodgerd at 07:41 PM on February 09, 2006
Joe88, since both have zero chance of winning a "PGA champ.," it's hard to say that one has more chance than another. And nobody here has argued that Wie can win on the PGA tour. redliner, I know pseudo intellectual bullshit, and allusions to Caddyshack don't qualify. And for HATER: Fuck you man. If you don't like my fuckin' music get your own fuckin' cab!
posted by Amateur at 08:14 PM on February 09, 2006
Once and fa all, Annika has a better chance winning a major (PGA Champ.) than Wie. Wie cannot win any mens event. Wie is heck of a lot hotter than Annika, but not a better player than Annika. However, Annika is not an ugly woman, by any means. So go Annika, from America to the Riksdag!!! If only Joe had shown up earlier, we could have all saved ourselves the trouble of thinking about our comments. L.N. Smithee - have you ever watched or played golf? Are you in fact the guy? Are you the guy who has been bumped from a tournament so that Wie could play? I've been wondering all this time why, if it's such a big deal, no one from the press has found that guy and let him vent his anger. The reason they haven't is that he doesn't exist. Wie gets into these men's tournaments on a sponsor's exemption (which, in case you missed it, is not the exemption we're talking about anyway in this thread). As such, she doesn't "bump" anyone who is a struggling pro at 125 in the money list. That guy was never getting a sponsor's exemption. If Wie is bumping anyone, she is bumping some geriatric, fake-hipped has-been (like Jay Haas, or Andy Bean) who might have got invited to attract some part of the older crowd. If you're saying that she's not playing with enough ambition on the ladies tour, then you're just full of shit. She has two top three finishes in women's majors and various other good finishes in tour events. She is 16 years old - she's doing pretty well. Criticising her for not winning yet is like criticising a toddler who can't walk for not winning the Olympic 100 metres. The hype that surrounds her is not her fault. The unrealistic expectations people have for her are not her fault. For the record, Samsonov is winning the make-JJ-laugh prize so far.
posted by JJ at 04:11 AM on February 10, 2006
Amateur, you've been here long enough now - you should know better than to break out the Lebowski this early in a thread, dude.
posted by JJ at 04:12 AM on February 10, 2006
Hey, HATER started it! Nice try.
posted by Amateur at 05:55 AM on February 10, 2006
I can't believe I've been "nice try"ed twice in one thread.
posted by JJ at 06:15 AM on February 10, 2006
Once and fa all, Annika has a better chance winning a major (PGA Champ.) I think I'm right in saying this, but Annika has ZERO chance of winning the PGA Championship. Isn't that the only tournament (and major) that does not allow competitors from outside the PGA to participate? I'm pretty sure it's a "PGA tour members only" requirement for that tournament.
posted by grum@work at 09:42 AM on February 10, 2006
I think "nice try" needs a little work before it attains catchphrase status. It ought to be a call to action, a rallying cry that we can immortalize in mass-produced rubber band bracelets:
posted by rcade at 11:28 AM on February 10, 2006
This is for Yerfatma, I never mentioned race in any part of the posting about Wie. Race has nothing to do with what I said. I just don't think that she has the right to compete on the PGA tour. Let her play on the LPGA where she belongs. She will never be good enough to win on the men's tour. That has nothing to do with race. Do your self a favor and stop with all this race bull.
posted by clubs at 07:24 AM on February 12, 2006
Jesus Fucking Christ, I need to learn to read? I already explained what I said. Nice try.
posted by yerfatma at 11:55 AM on February 12, 2006
She will never be good enough to win on the men's tour. I'm not sure about that but I think she should start by winning some LPGA events first.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 07:10 PM on February 12, 2006
donnnnychris: Fellow teen phenom Morgan Pressel thinks Wie should go through qualifying. I think she should too. Her free rides should end. Time to start earning her spot. Amen brother. The quest for the PGA cut can resume, but only after she's proven she's worthy of it. My other comments on Wie here, FWIW.