04/23/24
January 17, 2006
Why doesn't the NHL get rid the rules that limit the curvature of a stick blade?: Last night, with the Bruins already a man down, Anaheim coach Randy Carlyle challenged the curve of Sergei Samsonov's stick. While this "gamesmanship" may add an element of strategy to the game, why not let the players use any curve they want?
posted by canucklehead to hockey at 11:11 AM - 70 comments
The real gamesmanship is on the part of the player putting the illegal curve in the stick. A curved stick gives big advantages in terms of control, power, and accuracy of a shot. As with anything that gives such advantages, it must be regulated. Same thing goes for skis that racers use and golf clubs that guys on the pro tour use.
posted by mikelbyl at 11:44 AM on January 17, 2006
To answer the original question: The big banana Bobby Hull style curve creates a knuckleball effect, which might be fine in baseball where everyone's paying close attention the ball as it's coming down the pike, but add 25 mph to the projectile, freeze it, put eight people in the way of it, most of whom are obstructed or paying attention to their checks or positioning or something other than the puck, and what's often already questionable aim on the part of the shooter, and you've got an exponentially greater chance for completely random injury. People get hurt stopping shots already. This would make it a lot worse. That was why the rule was put in place to start with. Bobby Hull & Stan Mikita were as accurate as anyone, but even they were occasionally taking people's heads off with shots. Calling for measurements may be gamesmanship, but the rule is in place for a reason. (Frankly, it pisses me off a lot more when these skinny little graphite sticks break every time someone decides to lean into a shot.)
posted by chicobangs at 11:58 AM on January 17, 2006
The last thing I would like to see is Wade Belak winding up with a banana attached to the end of his stick. Lord knows it's already got about a 75 degree range within which it will go, add on something like that and you're asking for more eye and face injuries to players, coaches and fans.
posted by dfleming at 12:02 PM on January 17, 2006
The solution is simple: Wildly-curved sticks and nerf-like pucks.
posted by fabulon7 at 12:06 PM on January 17, 2006
Oooh, jai alai on ice! I can see it now!
posted by chicobangs at 12:07 PM on January 17, 2006
Thanks for info chico. I've always wondered what was up the curvey stick rule. I will always remember what happened to Jeff O'Neill's eye after a Sean Hill slapshot hit it during the playoffs in Toronto. Nasty! And that was with a regulation stick. 
posted by NoMich at 12:08 PM on January 17, 2006
This may sound odd, but I remember the actual excitement i would feel as a teenager when the coach of my favorite team would call for a measurement. First of all, the announcers never knew what was going on. Then they would figure it out when the ref would skate away from the bench with a single stick. Then an off ice official would hand the tool to the official on the ice and that's were the measurement would occur. After the measurement the official would point to the bench of the team that got the penalty. Before instant replay, the stick measurement was the reason a game would be delayed until the call could be made. I remember how pumped i would get when the coach of my team was right, and i also remember how tough it was when he was wrong. Also this was the only penalty call that was not initiated by an official. This risk was taken a lot more say 15-20 years ago. Now a days the team down by 1 is happy with just pulling the goalie. There was nothing like calling for a stick measurement, being right, then pulling the goalie as well. I guess everybody is using legal sticks now, because they sure don't call it like they use to. By the way, getting rid of this call would be like getting rid of checking an opponents bat for cork, or a pitchers hat for vaseline.
posted by BlogZilla at 12:12 PM on January 17, 2006
...Or a middie's stick for pocket/melting.
posted by Hugh Janus at 01:12 PM on January 17, 2006
(Frankly, it pisses me off a lot more when these skinny little graphite sticks break every time someone decides to lean into a shot.) And remember kids, the goalie is the only one allowed to play with a broken stick. All other players must immediately drop the twig. So, chicobangs, can you educate us on that rule? It's not just the curve, but also the twist that turns a hockey stick into a sand wedge. This also decreases the accuracy of a backhand shot/pass. Which is why our coach made us younglings play with almost flat sticks. I think the rule of thumb is: if you run a piece of tape from the toe to the heel of the blade, and you can slide a dime sideways through it, it has too much curve.
posted by njsk8r20 at 01:19 PM on January 17, 2006
Exactly. I used to microwave my STX Excaliburs to within a 1/16th.
posted by garfield at 01:21 PM on January 17, 2006
With the new rules (goalies pads, neutral zone, etc.) it would be foolish to get rid of regulating the curve of a stick. Not only for safety but for nostalgia for god's sake!! That said, imagine Forsberg or Gagne taking penalty shots with a "bannana"?Ouch, sorry goalies.
posted by GoBirds at 01:41 PM on January 17, 2006
But doesn't excess bend also cause a loss of control on the backhand? For this reason, I say let the players have at it. It's kind of like a prisoner's dilemma where they can create an ever more wicked shot at the loss of backhand control. I've seen a lot of sure goals be junked up because a player can't control the puck on his backhand, and this could make things even more interesting.
posted by jmd82 at 01:41 PM on January 17, 2006
So, chicobangs, can you educate us on that rule? I'm not the esteemed Mr. Bangs, but I'll try. You can't shoot/pass with a broken stick, so you really don't need to hold on to it. Therefore, players must drop it immediately. Otherwise, it becomes a sharp, pointy weapon that could do some serious damage if wielded the wrong way. The goalie, however, uses the stick to primarily block shots. Even if it's cracked/broken, it can still serve that purpose. However, the goalie puts himself at a disadvantage if the stick is broken at the shaft, since it probably won't reach the ice and will be useless. That's why the defencemen often hand their sticks off to the goalie when it breaks. It's a poor substitute, but it'll still give him the option to poke-check and steer away low shots.
posted by grum@work at 01:45 PM on January 17, 2006
That said, imagine Forsberg or Gagne taking penalty shots with a "bannana"?Ouch, sorry goalies. Actually they can use a "bannana" during the shoot-out. The blade curve rule does not apply there.
posted by njsk8r20 at 01:46 PM on January 17, 2006
I wasnt aware you had the zebra stripes on njsk8r20, I would be very surprised to see a player use a stick with an extreme curve in a shootout. Why wouldnt the same rule apply?
posted by GoBirds at 01:52 PM on January 17, 2006
Exactly. I used to microwave my STX Excaliburs to within a 1/16th. Ah memories. I wonder if my co-workers would take it wrong if I leveled someone in the next cube, just for old time's sake.
posted by yerfatma at 02:20 PM on January 17, 2006
Speaking of rare penalties, Auld got called for "goalie participation by center ice" yesterday. It's always amusing when these rare penalties are called, but they exist for a reason. If goalies have to deal with regulations on their pads, the players have to deal with regulations on their sticks. Besides, apart from the reasons mentioned, a really curved stick can "cup" the puck better against the ice and allow for tighter stickhandling and make it harder to stick check the puck away. At that point, you might as well be playing Lacrosse.
posted by mkn at 02:26 PM on January 17, 2006
Why wouldnt the same rule apply? The rule does not apply because the only players on the ice are the shooter and the goaltender. So the possibilty of "taking someones head off" is not there. They (NHL committee) are also talking about letting the shooters remove their helmets. I would be surprised also because the deke is the most common play in the shoot out. Thanks for noticing the stripes. Too bad the kids in the roller hockey league don't show the same respect.
posted by njsk8r20 at 02:29 PM on January 17, 2006
Grum is, of course, correct. (Thanks for picking that up. I was trying to get some work done. Call it a new year's resoution.)
posted by chicobangs at 02:48 PM on January 17, 2006
I like it when Belak gives his stick to Belfour. It actually improves the Leafs defence.
posted by fabulon7 at 02:51 PM on January 17, 2006
Speaking of rare penalties, Auld got called for "goalie participation by center ice" yesterday. I remember when Nik Antropov got called for "playing with two sticks".
posted by DrJohnEvans at 03:15 PM on January 17, 2006
I remember when Nik Antropov got called for "playing with two sticks". That's a bit harsh. Mr. Antropov should be allowed to do whatever he wants in the privacy of his own home. Penalties I've Only Seen Called Once: 1) Playing with a broken stick. 2) Goalie participation by centre ice. 3) Gross misconduct. (it doesn't mean they haven't happened more often, but I haven't been watching when it happened)
posted by grum@work at 03:39 PM on January 17, 2006
It seems to me, if a player uses a different stick during the shootout then during regulation there should be a yellow flag for unsportsmanlike conduct.Goalies are already at an unfair advantage, so we should let a guy skate in alone without the puck ever touching the ice? Methinks not. Also, those sticks are hand"done",blowtorches etc. You gonna ask the equipment guys to do "special" sticks just in case? Seems a little much. njsk8r20, I dig the stripes, just dont abuse yer whistle(or choke on it eerk!)
posted by GoBirds at 03:48 PM on January 17, 2006
I've seen playing with a broken stick a few times in the World Jrs. Not so much this year, but I remember it happening a couple times last year and the year before. When the composite sticks were more brittle, I guess. Another rare-ish one: playing without a helmet, but that's an international rule.
posted by mkn at 04:09 PM on January 17, 2006
Goalies are already at an unfair advantage, so we should let a guy skate in alone without the puck ever touching the ice? Explain how goalies are at a disadvantage. Yes, they give up more goals than normal, but they still stop more shots than not.
posted by dfleming at 04:53 PM on January 17, 2006
What is the exact angle, degree, legnth, whatever it is, that a hockey stick's curve is allowed to be?
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:57 PM on January 17, 2006
What is the exact angle, degree, legnth, whatever it is, that a hockey stick's curve is allowed to be?
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:57 PM on January 17, 2006
Ah the days of the gross-misconducts. The rake of the eyes, the low blow, the choke. I miss Dave Shultz and a young Bob Probert. And the bench clearing brawls. I don't miss the spitting. Didn't Havlat ( or whomever the guy was that kicked someone in the hockey pucks this year) get a gross-misconduct? That's a bit harsh. Mr. Antropov should be allowed to do whatever he wants in the privacy of his own home Talk about your gross misconduct for a "wicked wrister".......yuck.
posted by BlogZilla at 05:09 PM on January 17, 2006
Didn't Havlat ( or whomever the guy was that kicked someone in the hockey pucks this year) get a gross-misconduct? I am pretty sure it was a match penalty.
posted by dfleming at 05:26 PM on January 17, 2006
YYM - "The curvature of the blade of the stick shall be restricted in such a way that the distance of a perpendicular line measured from a straight line drawn from any point at the heel to the end of the blade to the point of maximum curvature shall not exceed one-half inch (1/2")." (NHL Rule 19b) I seem to recall a check being to put the blade flat on the ice, curve down, and see if you could get a puck under it. But the NHL rulebook suggests that a puck is an inch thick so that can't be right.
posted by gspm at 06:20 PM on January 17, 2006
and, apropos of nothing, I hope everybody saw Ovechkin's 2nd goal yesterday. The sliding on the back around the head/over the shoulder move is not one I have ever seen.
posted by gspm at 06:22 PM on January 17, 2006
Greztky, in his book, said that he never understood the desire for a wickedly curved stick because it meant that you lost too much accuracy on the backhand - not just for shooting, but for passing. He played with an almost flat stick and scored, oh, a few goals as I recall.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:27 PM on January 17, 2006
That Ovechkin goal was fan-fucking-tastic. It was so tastic as to be super-tastic - or the elusive, but life-changing snatch-tastic.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:29 PM on January 17, 2006
If that wasn't one of the greatest goals ever scored, then I dont know what would be.
posted by willthrill72 at 07:21 PM on January 17, 2006
I missed it, anybody got a link? I was looking at stats today and was floored when i saw that he passed Gagne for 2nd in scoring. I will add that he has played 5 more games than Gagne.
posted by BlogZilla at 09:27 PM on January 17, 2006
Thanks for that video link, gspm. Hadn't seen The Goal yet. Pretty impressive stuff. The kid needs to stop the showboating, though.
posted by qbert72 at 09:57 PM on January 17, 2006
Sorry, didnt notice the link before i posted. That was just sick. That equals Vince Carter jumping over the 6'10 guy to get a dunk as far as amazing plays go. Probably the best goal i've seen, besides that college guy that picked the puck up on his stick and stuck it in the net from behind the goalie.
posted by BlogZilla at 06:02 AM on January 18, 2006
Holy cow, that was a great goal. Just another reason Ovechkin gets my vote for the Calder over Crosby...
posted by MeatSaber at 07:12 AM on January 18, 2006
BlogZilla: Are you sure that was college and not Sidney Crosby in the QMJHL? Because he did that. It got him accused of being a showoff.
posted by fabulon7 at 07:35 AM on January 18, 2006
I was commenting on another post during the Caps vs. Coyotes and saw the Ovechkin goal live. It was surreal to watch. I loved the shot they showed of the opposing players bench, a look of total disbelief followed by smiles and head shakes of amazement. Then to see the smile on Gretzky's face well priceless. What bothered me was Hanlon keeping the kid on the bench the last 2 minutes to get his hat trick. it would have been the 1st back to back games hat trick for a Caps player since 1980. Hey not just the Calder he's got my vote for Hart MVP Honors.
posted by skydivedad at 08:02 AM on January 18, 2006
Ovechkin gets my vote for the Calder over Crosby... He gets my vote too. I'm getting sick of hearing about Crosby and his "savior of NHL hockey" status. Savior of Pittsburgh maybe (we'll have to wait and see), but not the NHL. Plus rumors out of Pittsburgh say Sid is letting it all go to his head and is getting an attitude. Anyway (I just needed to vent), Great goal! I'm sure that one will go down in history.
posted by njsk8r20 at 08:34 AM on January 18, 2006
Unfreakingbelievable. And I hope whoever that was for Phoenix that watched the puck go in will be skating sprints for a long while -- had he continued to the near post to cover for a downed goalie, he could have simply swatted the puck away.
posted by wfrazerjr at 09:20 AM on January 18, 2006
I heard of (but haven't seen) Crosby's goal in the QMJHL with the behind the net lacrossey type move. But there was a goal, three or four years ago, by a player for the Michigan Wolverines (IIRC) that pulled that off. (a brief search turns up the name Mike Legg in 1996 and a video clip).
posted by gspm at 09:22 AM on January 18, 2006
I like to think I have a fairly good grasp of hockey rules but after watching the Legg clip is that even legal? Regardless, hell of a play!
posted by willthrill72 at 11:18 AM on January 18, 2006
As long as his stick is under the crossbar, it's perfectly legal...
posted by MeatSaber at 12:01 PM on January 18, 2006
I remember the Legg goal. My pop is a Michagander and would not stop talking about that goal. Back to the whole stick thing, has anyone ever seen John Leclair's stick? It has a weird S shape to it. Does anyone know the legality of his stick. Ovechkin gets my vote for the Calder over Crosby... Your asses are all wet. I would take Sid over Alex but need I remind you all of Henrik Lundquist. Playing incredible hockey on a team that was supposed to finish 31st in the league, and he is playing the most important position.
posted by HATER 187 at 12:09 PM on January 18, 2006
Here's a couple versions of the same kind of move from Rob Hisey, a kid who played here with the Barrie Colts last season and is now overseas: 1) During the Colts' skills competition last year, Hisey adds a spinorama and goes between the legs. 2) Hisey pulls the trick without stopping during a Finnish Champion League for Assat Pori. Rob's a smaller guy, but he has one of the highest motors I've ever seen, will scrap and pester and is just perfect for this new NHL. I know the Dallas Stars took a look earlier this season when he came down for camp with defensive prospect B.J. Crombeen, but get him back over here!
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:12 PM on January 18, 2006
I'm thinking that Ovechkin wins the Calder this year, but watch for Crosby to go all "Gretzky" on the league next year when he is on a line with the next wonderkid, Malkin (the "Kurri"). Ovechkin is the Mike Bossy of the 21st century. He's got the skills to be the elite goal scorer. I'm just not sure he's got the playmaking skills to enhance the players around him. I am salivating at watching Ovechkin and Crosby play on the same All-Star teams for the next 10 years.
posted by grum@work at 12:20 PM on January 18, 2006
grum, they won't be on the same line, though. It's gotsta be Ovechkin-Malkin-Kovalchuk
posted by garfield at 12:50 PM on January 18, 2006
Interesting to note that these lacrosse-style goals would not be possible at all without a curved stick.
posted by qbert72 at 12:53 PM on January 18, 2006
Tell that to Dean Youngblood, pal.
posted by yerfatma at 01:34 PM on January 18, 2006
grum, they won't be on the same line, though. It's gotsta be Ovechkin-Malkin-Kovalchuk I don't think anything but great things can come from forming three forward lines out of the following 9 players for the next 5 years: Crosby Ovechkin Malkin Kovalchuk Heatley Spezza Staal Prucha Bergeron The NHL Eastern conference is just LOADED with great young forwards.
posted by grum@work at 03:42 PM on January 18, 2006
Don't forget about Gionta. It's a shame we have to wait till next year for an All-Star game. Why can't they play one after the season?
posted by njsk8r20 at 04:01 PM on January 18, 2006
It's a shame we have to wait till next year for an All-Star game. Why can't they play one after the season? cause it would be a bit anti-climatic after the stanley cup, dontcha think? just watch the olympics. it's almost like watching 2 weeks worth of all star games.
posted by goddam at 05:27 PM on January 18, 2006
cause it would be a bit anti-climatic after the stanley cup, dontcha think? Hell no. That's how the NFL does it with the Pro Bowl, and look what an amazing success that . . . I guess I concede the point.
posted by yerfatma at 06:14 PM on January 18, 2006
Dean Youngblood...to funny. The legg clip is the one I was reffering to. Still by far the sickest goal I have ever seen.
posted by BlogZilla at 07:03 PM on January 18, 2006
I don't think anything but great things can come from forming three forward lines out of the following 9 players for the next 5 years: Crosby Ovechkin Malkin Kovalchuk Heatley Spezza Staal Prucha Bergeron Ah, c'mon - Patrice Bergeron sucks compared to these other guys. Interesting to note - the top scoring forward in the Western Conference this year is Alex Tanguay (if you don't count Thorton because he has more games in the Eastern Conference right now). He's tied for 10th in the League. Lotsa talent in that East, boy.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:21 PM on January 18, 2006
I'm still not buying Prucha, myself. I get a Vladimir Ruzicka feeling about him, for not particular reason.
posted by qbert72 at 10:34 PM on January 18, 2006
Or is that Dmitri Kvartalnov? Both of these guys were insane in NHL '94.
posted by qbert72 at 10:38 PM on January 18, 2006
Ah memories. The best part of the Berlin Wall collapsing was those two propped up the Bruins for a few years. THen, much like Yakhov Smirnov, we all lost interest.
posted by yerfatma at 06:09 AM on January 19, 2006
You lost interest in Yakov Smirnov? Was I supposed to? Because in Soviet Russia, tractor drives you!
posted by wfrazerjr at 08:17 AM on January 19, 2006
cause it would be a bit anti-climatic after the stanley cup, dontcha think? just watch the olympics. it's almost like watching 2 weeks worth of all star games. You may be right (I may be crazy), goddam. But that will depend on how good the TV coverage is. You can't watch what is not on.
posted by njsk8r20 at 08:22 AM on January 19, 2006
how good the TV coverage is njsk8r20 NBC announced they will broadcast live all 54 schelduled mens and womens hockey Olympic Hockey Games on their "Universal" Networks. Here's a link. I've got their complete Olympic Broadcast Scheldule. It's a large file but I'd be happy to email it to you if you'd like.
posted by skydivedad at 08:32 AM on January 19, 2006
"Our hockey coverage is a fan's dream come true, every U.S. game will be seen commercial free and in its entirety," Now that's what I'm talking aboot! Thanks skydivedad, send it on over.
posted by njsk8r20 at 08:44 AM on January 19, 2006
Ditto, skydivedad.
posted by willthrill72 at 08:47 AM on January 19, 2006
Oh Yea! Mark Weds. Feb 22nd as a must play hokey to watch Olympic Hockey 1/4 finals. The eight best teams in the world square off!
posted by skydivedad at 08:54 AM on January 19, 2006
Just another reason to love living next to the border. Between the NBCs and CBC, I"ll get to see every US and Canada game...
posted by MeatSaber at 12:45 PM on January 19, 2006
Same here MeatSaber, I particulary enjoy seeing games that I wouldn't see otherwise. It also provides a nice break from the accursed OLN.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:30 PM on January 19, 2006
Hamilton, the 1984 Olympic gold medalist who has earned the moniker "Skate God" in skating circles [/pisses self]
posted by garfield at 01:33 PM on January 19, 2006
Even as a Bruins fan, I'm stumped when players get upset with being called on it. Is it that hard to tell if your stick is legal? I still remember this happening in a Habs playoff game back in '94 or so. It seems like brilliant gamesmanship on a coach's part. There's a risk to the call, so you better be right.