November 23, 2005

TO TO'd: Owens out and his agent outed.

posted by irunfromclones to football at 01:38 PM - 63 comments

I did not see that coming. Nice stand by the arbitrator.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 02:14 PM on November 23, 2005

One word AWSOME! could'nt have happend to a more deserving JERK. OK 2 words

posted by countrygirllostinLA at 02:25 PM on November 23, 2005

I don't know why Philly is so happy they have lost every game he hasn't played in this year. They probably won't even see the playoff let alone get anywhere without him. I wonder where he will be next year. Hopefully that team will play the Eagles. I would love to see the endzone celebrations for that game.

posted by jtrluva at 02:31 PM on November 23, 2005

Do you see me grunting and straining? I'm working very hard to muster one smidgen of sympathy for TO ... and I'm failing miserably. Also ... I hate this from the NFL player's union: "We are confident that we put in a winning case at the hearing last Friday," the statement said ... Uh, no. Apparently you dumbfucks can't read the ruling. You lost, which in fact means you put on a losing case. on preview: jtrluva, they'll be an organization which still has its respect and class and a fan base which supports it for not allowing one individual to dictate its course.

posted by wfrazerjr at 02:35 PM on November 23, 2005

Yeah, fraze, who cares about winning anyway. Principles are the important thing.

posted by bperk at 02:40 PM on November 23, 2005

Everyone likes winning, however sometime principles are more important and values

posted by countrygirllostinLA at 02:49 PM on November 23, 2005

bperk, remind me never to let you coach my kids.

posted by wfrazerjr at 02:51 PM on November 23, 2005

you have to remember that McNabb is out. It was a good call by the arbirator

posted by SidinGP at 02:56 PM on November 23, 2005

"Without him, they're 2-5, including two meaningless losses" I still cannot figure out why, everytime the media cites the Eagles' record without TO, they talk about "meaningless losses." I know they wrapped up the division title early last year so that the last couple of games did not matter as far as standings, but is any loss really "meaningless." Maybe winning really does not matter?

posted by graymatters at 02:56 PM on November 23, 2005

Hey, fraze, at least I am not an ex-con.

posted by bperk at 03:07 PM on November 23, 2005

Im sure not one team, thinks of a loss as meaningless.

posted by countrygirllostinLA at 03:09 PM on November 23, 2005

Name calling, isnt this perfect for the subject

posted by countrygirllostinLA at 03:14 PM on November 23, 2005

When a team has already won their division and wrapped up home field advantage for the playoffs, there is nothing for them to gain or lose. Therefore, to that team the game is... meaningless. The Eagles weren't undefeated with TO. He was so divisive he made it difficult for other team members to focus on their jobs. Maybe he could run his mouth and still be effective catching passes but when he causes the QB and the Coach to have to focus on nonsense it affects the whole team. His position made it easy for him to be so selfish a WR is basically only responsible for themselves on the field, preparation for him is not comparable to the preparation a Coach and a QB must perform in order to succeed each week. The TEAM had better things to do than baby sit his sorry ass bad attitude. I can't wait to see him get what he wants, a restructured it's going to be less than the one he already has. Maybe he'll get lucky and go to the Texans!

posted by tselson at 03:25 PM on November 23, 2005

Better yet, his mouth would fit in to wrestling, they love loud mouth jerks. Whom ever takes him, he will always be a stress factor on a team.

posted by countrygirllostinLA at 03:30 PM on November 23, 2005

yay! what a wonderful precedent they've set! Essentially, teams never have to honor a contract. (I mean, they already dont, but now they have to honor it even less) I'm sure every player, at one time or another, has said something less than 100% positive about a teammate. Just hide mics in all the locker rooms and get dirt on everybody! TO can be a jerk sometimes. he was also the only one who seemed to even be making an effort in the Super Bowl last year. The rest of the team just doesnt have what it takes - they will not come close to the Super Bowl again with this group of players.

posted by fakeymcalias at 03:51 PM on November 23, 2005

Actually, lets take this out of the context of TO or even football. You have a contract with someone to do a job- you decide halfway through you dont like job they're doing- but YOU SIGNED THE CONTRACT. You either pay them the full amount or negotiate a buyout. Whether the person is a "jerk" is 1000% beside the point. A business owner with any class does business in the right way all the time, not on a sliding scale based on a moral judgement of the person they're doing business with.

posted by fakeymcalias at 03:56 PM on November 23, 2005

I may be in the minority here, but I still think that if T.O. is fired (for all intents and purposes) he should be allowed to seek employment elsewhere. That the Iggles still own him, despite not wanting him, doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me - though I agree he probably deserves the punishment, it seems wrong in a precedent kinda way.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:59 PM on November 23, 2005

17 comments and nobody has mentioned Keyshawn Johnson. He set the precedent for this 2 years ago when he got deactivated by Tampa Bay. T.O. should have seen the writing on the walls. The NFL will stand for Not For Long if his attitude doesn't change quick.

posted by timdawg at 04:09 PM on November 23, 2005

T.O. thinks hes above the rest, and cant see the writing on the wall.

posted by countrygirllostinLA at 04:16 PM on November 23, 2005

The decision to violate the contract was initiated by Owens when he demanded that the Eagles renegotiate one year into a 7-year deal. When they refused, he all but promised to be a distraction and to not play to the best of his abilities. He is not unemployed. He is suspended without pay for four games, after which the Eagles will pay him his regular salary to sit at home. does any of this translate into the Eagles violating his contract? In context of football or out, Owens is the culprit in this situation.

posted by joaquim at 04:17 PM on November 23, 2005

You either pay them the full amount or negotiate a buyout. Well, actually, they are paying the full amount, at least this year. They dock his pay for the four games he's suspended (which the arbitrator ruled is fair punishment), then they deactivate him, which means he gets paid, but doesn't play. The team might even argue that they're paying more than they bargained for. Besides, any good contract has performance clauses in it that allow it to be voided if things go wrong. I would assume a player contract is no different (physicals, drug tests, etc.) What happens next year? I assume the Eagles cut him, but what about the rest of his contract?

posted by cybermac at 04:20 PM on November 23, 2005

Hey, I just realized that now he can spend more time with his family! And we all know that TO puts family above all else.

posted by cybermac at 04:26 PM on November 23, 2005

Nevermind, I just got the answer to my question.

posted by cybermac at 04:30 PM on November 23, 2005

TO agreed to abide by his contract, which obviously had clauses in it regarding conduct. The Eagles also agreed to abide by the contract. Today an Arbitrator determined that they had and TO hadn't. If you sign a contract with a contractor to resurface your driveway and they ruin your yard in the process, if the contract states that they will be responsible for damage to your property are you saying it would be classless to make them abide by the contract and pay for the damage? It would be classless for them to insist on full payment. The Eagles can't trade TO, as the deadline has passed, I'm sure if they cut him outright it would have salary cap ramifications wich would further hurt the team. The Eagles are simply utilizing the clauses in the contract which protect their interests, clauses which TO agreed to. Contracts have clauses which protect both sides. So do Collective Bargaining Agreements, which is what the arbitrator enterpreted today. The Eagles are following all the rules as will be evidenced when they pay TO after the suspension to do nothing. TO is the one who signed a contract and not even halfway through it decided he didn't like it and wanted a new one. That's "class."

posted by tselson at 04:36 PM on November 23, 2005

I was born and raised in Philadelphia,I now live in Wyoming. I still bleed green. When TO first came to Philly I said "uhoh,lets see how it goes."It went well until, know. Good riddance I say. Go to another lousy"classless" organization,make less money,and ruin your image in some other city.Bah TO....

posted by GoBirds at 04:37 PM on November 23, 2005


posted by countrygirllostinLA at 04:39 PM on November 23, 2005

Bye Bye t.o {notice the small letters}. I ain't missing you at all!

posted by melcarek69 at 04:43 PM on November 23, 2005

It's even better than I expected with TO out oh, about 6 Million Dollars! Couldn't happen to a more deserving creep. Next stop Dallas?

posted by skydivedad at 05:19 PM on November 23, 2005

It's too bad that Philly is going to get so little return on their investment since their only option now is to straight cut the guy next spring. The only recompense will be in getting back some of the signing bonus and other incentives that owens would have made. I am absolutely certain that owens will not learn anything from this, he will continue to be a martyr and continue to blast his (now) old team, believing that other teams will be waiting in line to pick him up. My much used crystal ball sees Reid waiting until the last possible second to cut him, thereby severely limiting owens time on the market and his choices for another team. It also sees owens never learning from his own history and therefore doomed to repeat it.

posted by irunfromclones at 05:25 PM on November 23, 2005

When the arbitrator talks about T.O.'s "destructive and continuing threat," language that better suits a hunt for WMDs than a football dispute, I'm inclined to believe that this was more a crappy arbitrator than a legitimate judgment on the situation. Owens is an ass, but the Eagles did a good job destroying themselves the last two games without his help. I think Reid drew the line in the sand with T.O. at the wrong time. People aren't going to blame this season on Owens, as much as he might think otherwise, just as they didn't blame Keyshawn Johnson on the Bucs' dismal season following their Super Bowl run. It hung on Jon Gruden until this year.

posted by rcade at 05:27 PM on November 23, 2005

Holy crap Owens and Rosenhaus are lovers? Oh.

posted by lilnemo at 05:43 PM on November 23, 2005

The Philly teams have a way of losing good athletes without getting compensation. In this case Philly should have played it smart. they should not have suspended him. They should have played down his antics and then put him on the market. They could have gotten a nice reciever for TO. This way, they still would have been rid of him. But like Reggie White, Charles Barkley,Wilt Chamberlin, TO will probably just get cut with no compensation at all.. I mean, this is the city that gave up PETER FORSBERG, Ron hextal(in his prime) and few other good players for "eric lindross". this is the city that drafted Shawn Bradley 2nd in 93'94 before penny hardaway, vin baker,JAMAL MASHBURN,isaiah rider,nick van excel,Toni kukoc,linsey hunter. When it comes to superstars, philly is cursed. What happen to the days of Dr.J,Mike Schmit,Bobby Clark,.All winners in their respective sports. Allen Iverson=Great,no championship. Donavon Mcnabb=great(sometimes)no championship...Will Peter Forsberg=championship??Or will he fall to the philly curse?

posted by RZA at 06:52 PM on November 23, 2005

Holy crap Owens and Rosenhaus are lovers? You know, I wondered about the choice of wording there, too.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:12 PM on November 23, 2005

My much used crystal ball sees Reid waiting until the last possible second to cut him, thereby severely limiting owens time on the market and his choices for another team. I don't think Andy Reid will do that. He'll want to make sure his actions, and the actions of the franchise, are above reproach and as far away from Owens' end of the behavioral spectrum as humanly possible. The only way the Eagles can win hearts and minds back after what is probably going to be a disaster of a season is to take the high road, draft well, and win next year.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:15 PM on November 23, 2005

Im just glad Im not a Miami Dolphins fan,imagine spending big bucks on a Ricky Williams jersey,destroying it, then having to go out and get another?Suckers.

posted by GoBirds at 07:42 PM on November 23, 2005

I seriously doubt anyone would be fooled a second time.

posted by Fade222 at 08:38 PM on November 23, 2005

The local J.C. Penney had an entire rack of Ricky Williams jerseys that were on sale for a year after his pot-induced retirement. They got rid of them right before he returned.

posted by rcade at 09:45 PM on November 23, 2005

shitty decision by the Eagles. Oh well.....

posted by baxterndino at 10:03 PM on November 23, 2005

I don't mind the decison because T.O. has done so much not only in the past couple weeks but since the season ended last year. he said in preseason he would disrupt the team if he didn't get what he wanted. plus he got in a fight with a ex-player in the workout room going so far as to challenge anyone else present to a fight. the keyshawn situation was different because he never argued his case his just took his de-activation and went home.

posted by kellermcgee21 at 10:18 PM on November 23, 2005

Owens out and his agent outed. Where, irunfromclones, in the article linked is the agent outed? Forget about outing, he isn't even mentioned that I can see. Then again, this whole situation is ridiculous and the Eagles should have known what they were getting when Owens pulled the tantrum that got him out of the Ravens trade, so my nano-violin is still in the case.

posted by billsaysthis at 11:23 PM on November 23, 2005

I think it was the right thing to do, but he still should be given the choice to end his contract now if he wants to (giving up the money too of course) and join another team. Just so it's not my Lions, they have enough problems as it is.

posted by commander cody at 11:26 PM on November 23, 2005

I don't know what he deserves or doesn't deserve. I won't judge anyone here. That's already been done by people way smarter than me. But if Owens sees this as a call to maturity, or at least an incentive for an attitude adjustment, then something good will have come out of this. It's no skin off my nose to believe that everyone concerned -- Owens, the Eagles, Rosenhaus, even some Eagles fans -- might learn something constructive out of this. Hope is free.

posted by chicobangs at 01:45 AM on November 24, 2005

rcade i think the opertive word in your post is "on-sale".

posted by Fade222 at 04:02 AM on November 24, 2005

This is what I'd like to see the eagles do, even though I know there isn't a chance of it ever happening. After the season is over Reid calls Owens into his office. "TO, we have a contract for the next five seasons. We are going to hold you to that contract. We will not renegotiate. This is a code of conduct. Look it over, have Drew look it over, have a lawyer look it over. The first mini-camp is (insert date), show up with this signed. If you do and abide by the Code of Conduct, you can be our star receiver again. If not, well TO, you are 31, by the time you'll get out of this contract you'll be 36. You will never make the big money again."

posted by apoch at 06:16 AM on November 24, 2005

It's no skin off my nose to believe that everyone concerned -- Owens, the Eagles, Rosenhaus, even some Eagles fans -- might learn something constructive out of this. Hope is free. In high school sports they call it a "building year", and they understand that you can either suck it up and go through it this year, or you'll be going through it next year too. You don't really see that in pro sports, though, because there's always the carrot of trades making everyone thinking they can avoid reality.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:03 AM on November 24, 2005

The contract TO signed was always a two-year contract. He knew it and the Eagles knew it. That is why he wanted to renegotiate. The Eagles were never going to keep him after this season. He has a large roster bonus due in March and he will be gone by them.

posted by bperk at 09:03 AM on November 24, 2005

T.O should be cut 5 minutes before sundays game against Green Bay

posted by Dav at 10:47 AM on November 24, 2005

@Apoch, I'm unclear on just how your proposal is quite so terrible for TO other than not allowing him to play for five years since--other than the current four game suspension--the Eagles have to pay his salary whether he dresses for the game or not. Including the multi-million dollar roster bonus due March 1, 2006. Sure, his ego will say "Dude, TO has got to be out there showing he's the greatest receiver ever" but his body may counter that with "Dude, mucho dinero and no more linebackers bodyslamming TO on crossing patterns."

posted by billsaysthis at 12:58 PM on November 24, 2005

as a philly fan i hope they lose the rest of the games this season, not let one of the best wr in the game play is just flat out stupid. Being for minnesota i would love to see him in purple and gold. Not letting T.O play pissed me off almost as much as when the vikings traded Moss, i just hope they have the same fate.

posted by jkillausmc at 02:32 PM on November 24, 2005

Let's remember here that the arbitrator did not make a moral judgment here; he read the various relevant agreements and contracts and determined what is permitted by those documents. What this means is that the NFLPA will be seeking a change in the next basic agreement (currently being negotiated) that does not permit a team to do what the Eagles are doing to Owens (the deactivation, not the suspension). I doubt the NFLPA cares much about Owens, but they are very worried about the precedent this will set. Owners could use the deactivation strategy in circumstances far less clear than the Owens case. So make no mistake; this situation will be addressed in the next basic agreement.

posted by spira at 04:07 PM on November 24, 2005

T.O. would have been great on the Vikings "love-boat" eh?

posted by GoBirds at 07:52 PM on November 24, 2005

Philadelphia, PA (AP) - A seven year old boy was at the center of a Philadelphia courtroom drama yesterday when he challenged a court ruling over who should have custody of him. The boy has a history of being beaten by his parents and the judge initially awarded custody to his aunt, in keeping with child custody law and regulations requiring that family unity be maintained to the degree possible. The boy surprised the court when he proclaimed that his aunt beat him more than his parents and he adamantly refused to live with her. When the judge suggested that he live with his grandparents, the boy cried out that they also beat him. After considering the remainder of the immediate family and learning that domestic violence was apparently a way of life among them, the judge took the unprecedented step of allowing the boy to propose who should have custody of him. After two recesses to check legal references and confer with child welfare officials, the judge granted temporary custody to the Philadelphia Eagles, whom the boy firmly believes are not capable of beating anyone.

posted by baxterndino at 11:27 PM on November 24, 2005

I applaud the Eagles for taking a stance against the biggest Jack ass in sports. First he demands a trade from SF then when he gets traded to Baltimore he states he won't play there. So Baltimore trade him to Philly and Philly gives him a fat 7 year deal. After one year playing there he wants a new deal, because of Moss' new deal . He then starts talking trash and disrupting his own locker room. Donovan McNabb = Class : TO = Punk ass. Bye BITCH ASS TO

posted by bemi at 09:06 AM on November 25, 2005

Waht ever happened to guys with class like Walter Peyton? Now there was a real football player. He wasn't an egotist, self-centered jerk like TO. All TO cares about is TO. He's become a football prostitute, seling his services to the highest bidder and if he can get more, he'll do anything to get it; even if that means being a real stumbling block to the rest of the team.

posted by usroute17 at 09:52 AM on November 25, 2005

Whatever T.O. gets, he deserves. NFL and all other pro sports players end up being role models for kids. I know I wouldn't want any kids I might have taking their behavior examples from him. I hope no one takes the chance on him and he leaves the league. I like football for the sport; not the off the field drama.

posted by jusafan at 09:57 AM on November 25, 2005

He's become a football prostitute, seling his services to the highest bidder and if he can get more, he'll do anything to get it OMG this has to be the stupidest thing written in this thread yet. Is TO or any other PROFESSIONAL athlete supposed to play for less money than he or she can get? Do you tell your boss that, hey, I know it would be better for the P&L if you cut my salary 10% so feel free to go ahead and do it? When I see an owner cutting ticket prices to reward the fans then maybe players should consider something else. IMO this attitude about players sacrificing for the team is a relic of the pre-free agency era when players had no other real options and is way past its sell by date.

posted by billsaysthis at 01:50 PM on November 25, 2005

Im going to the game on sunday vs. the packers. I look forward to watching Favre do his thing(hopefully throw a few picks too) hes got class. His "outspoken" reciever was lost in the first game. Too bad Roy Williams didnt break TOs neck last year(Im allowed to say something "classless",correct?)on a more serious note,TO could have been mayor of Philly if he had just kept his stupid mouth shut. We would have supported him thru thick and thin. His dumbass mouth will be the ruin of his carreer.The worst, saddest part? He doesnt even know it. Rosenhaus gets paid regardless.

posted by GoBirds at 02:34 PM on November 25, 2005

IMO this attitude about players sacrificing for the team is a relic of the pre-free agency era when players had no other real options and is way past its sell by date. bill, myself and Daniel Alfredsson beg to differ.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 03:57 PM on November 25, 2005

TO sez his gramma who raised him taught him to speak his mind. I dont think she knew she raised an idiot.

posted by GoBirds at 04:23 PM on November 25, 2005

I've got nothing against speaking your mind, but when it impacts the whole team, it is detremental and a stumbling block. He has become a distraction for the whole team. Is TO or any other PROFESSIONAL athlete supposed to play for less money than he or she can get? Maybe not, but when they focus solely on their salary and go around bragging and having a very large chip on their shoulders, then it is detremental and becomes a distraction. Also, when their only motivation is $$$$$$$, yeah they are a football prostitute. If they focused on the team, the game, and winning for the team, then come contract renewal time, I believe tey can try to get what their really worth, but just going around patting yourself on the back all the time and putting down all your teamates because you think they are chumps and don't play as good as you do, then something needs to be done.

posted by usroute17 at 07:36 PM on November 25, 2005

how bout the basketball player that caused so much trouble and then nobody wanted him...stupid enough to marry himself....same with to nobody wants constant trouble

posted by dtip58 at 10:04 PM on November 25, 2005

DrJ, there are exceptions to every rule of human behavior and so one anecdote doesn't mean squat. Ask our professional statisticians like grum or JJ.

posted by billsaysthis at 07:07 PM on November 26, 2005

IMO this attitude about players sacrificing for the team is a relic of the pre-free agency era when players had no other real options and is way past its sell by date. Amen, brother Bill. Owners can drop a player at any time because they've successfully colluded to prevent guaranteed contracts from becoming adopted in the NFL. As long as that's true, I have no problem with players holding out as a negotiating ploy.

posted by rcade at 12:43 PM on November 27, 2005

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