11/23/24
August 18, 2005
Football fans are idiots : Football is pricier, more uncompetitive and less atmospheric than ever. So why do supporters still lap it up, asks a bemused Sean Ingle
I will admit that an F-1 warm up lap is pretty boring. But then so is watching grass grow. Not exactly sure what this guys bases his "uncompetitive" ideas from.
posted by dbt302 at 03:46 PM on August 18, 2005
Perhaps he's referring to the the distinct separations between the A, B, C, and D class teams in the Premiership?
posted by garfield at 04:15 PM on August 18, 2005
what's a wanker?
posted by tommysands at 04:23 PM on August 18, 2005
This is a really funny one. Saying soccer is more exciting than football is like saying swimming is a fast sport than Formula 1. I challenge soccer fans to go to a match, drink no alcohol, and then try to tell me agian how the 60 minutes of 1-1 slow play is more exiting than football. There is a reason they sell booze throughout the whole game.......its so you cant tell how booooooooring it is!
posted by Spoilerxxx at 04:36 PM on August 18, 2005
haha read the article second, LOL
posted by Spoilerxxx at 04:41 PM on August 18, 2005
uncompetitive? what are you basing your opinions on? For clarity's sake, he's talking about football, not football, which I think is what's confusing you.
posted by yerfatma at 05:01 PM on August 18, 2005
I challenge soccer fans to go to a match, drink no alcohol, and then try to tell me agian how the 60 minutes of 1-1 slow play is more exiting than football. Um...soccer games are 90 minutes long. Also, they don't sell booze at stadiums period in the vast majority of Europe. Your ignorance of the sport renders your opinion invalid. Thanks for playing, though.
posted by Ufez Jones at 05:05 PM on August 18, 2005
jonsey, don't be too quick to beat up on triple X. OK so he thinks a match is 60 minutes long but he didn't say that they "sell booze at stadiums"; he said go to a match, drink no alcohol . I never played soccer but did ref for 5 years when my son played AYSO. For me, playing and refing was fun. But I've never been into watching. And compared to american football, I'd agree with triple X that am ft ball is more exciting, for me. /just sayin
posted by tommysands at 05:15 PM on August 18, 2005
He didn't, tommy? There is a reason they sell booze throughout the whole game.......its so you cant tell how booooooooring it is! Opinions are fine, but it's at least encouraged to back them up with some kind of valid point. Otherwise it's just noise and adds nothing to the discussion. /just sayin
posted by Ufez Jones at 05:30 PM on August 18, 2005
thank, ufez. that needed to be said. and i'd challenge pigskin fans to try and watch a game sober, with no knowledge of the game, and see how exciting it is.
posted by garfield at 05:30 PM on August 18, 2005
"Why are they standing around, Bubba?" "Well Theodore, they are calling a play. See they are lining up. He just snapped the...." "Now what's wrong?" "The play is over. They tried to run it up the middle, but geot stuffed. Now you have to wait until the next play." "Aw, geez...this is boooooooring"
posted by garfield at 05:34 PM on August 18, 2005
The atmosphere's become rubbish too.These days at home matches, what usually happens? You get to the ground at 2.50pm, just in time to hear a local radio DJ induce a faux-atmosphere by shouting: "Are you ready? I said: Are you ready? Let's make some noise!" Like sheep, the crowd responds, sings one song, and then settles back into silence. If football fans are idiots, then, according to this guy, you football fans must be on the same boat. This article goes in circles. First he talks about how much rubbish american football is, then he turns around and says the same thing about the sport that he is exalting! WTF is going on in merry 'ol England? Also... if a ref makes a bad call in a american football game, he gets booed, and chastised. If a ref makes a bad call in a football match, he gets pelted with whatever is in close proximity... including road flares! Haven't seen that in any civilized sport. In my opinion if you do that sober, since they don't sell alcohol, then footie-ball fans are the idiots here.
posted by kingosiris at 05:47 PM on August 18, 2005
and i'd challenge pigskin fans to try and watch a game sober, with no knowledge of the game, and see how exciting it is. garf, I do have some knowledge of soccer having been a ref for 5 years and I still think watching is little fun. (One good thing about soccer is that there are relatively few rules) "Hey bubba, what they doing now?" "They're running down the field trying to kick the ball into the goal" "Hey bubba, why they running down the other end now". "They're trying to kick the ball into the other goal". Hey bubba, do they ever kick the ball into the goal? "Hardly ever" "Hey bubba, when is this thing over?" "In 90 minutes, sometimes." "Why sometimes, bubba?" "Because sometimes it lasts longer" "Oh, OK" "Let's get a beer, bubba" "Can't. They don't sell it"
posted by tommysands at 07:15 PM on August 18, 2005
I love football (the real kind) and I realise that my love is an unrequited one, and I have a deep sense of self loathing and masochism that keeps me going back and back. There - I've said it. That's why we are fans.
posted by owlhouse at 08:05 PM on August 18, 2005
Best definition of a football fan I've ever seen! I particularly like the "unrequited" part. Admin, Is there a "Best Def" award?
posted by tommysands at 08:36 PM on August 18, 2005
Soccer, you born with it it does not matter if you were a player or ref, if you found out that you do not like soccer that means you do not have it in your blood (ask argentines and brazilians) they will tell you better, american football is for americans and african anericans and few wannabes ; soccer it's for the rest of the world that means universal. Thanks.
posted by javiman at 10:29 PM on August 18, 2005
I'm a latino and a football fan,I've never like soccer even though people around still watch it,soccer is boring to me for several reasons,it's slow,and then you also have to wait so long to see them score,you watch 90 minutes just to see them not scoring anything.
posted by felville at 11:22 PM on August 18, 2005
I'm at a loss as to how American football ever got mentioned in this thread. A lot of what Ingle says in this article makes sense. In fact it just about sums up why I stopped attending football matches on a regular basis - increase in prices, lack of atmosphere, players taking the piss etc. However, I'm still going to watch the mighty Blues destroy Man Citeh tomorrow. Come on you Blues!
posted by squealy at 06:37 AM on August 19, 2005
american football is for americans and african anericans We like to think African-Americans are included in the term "Americans"/ residents of the US.
posted by yerfatma at 06:59 AM on August 19, 2005
Yes, good article, what fun is there in a three horse race if you're supporting horse number 14? The relegation dogfights are far more interesting than the top-spot nowadays. I'm with squealy on this, I go down to Solihull Borough more often than the Villa now, sure, they're crap (bottom out of 24 teams last season, hoping for any kind of improvement this season), but it's a fiver to get in AND there's a bacon-butty van at the side of the pitch.
posted by BigCalm at 07:43 AM on August 19, 2005
Pete... Lay off man...if you've lost the desire to watch football or play it, then don't fucking watch it or play it... Do you need some kind of perverted validation that there are people who feel like you?! And if there aren't, are you going to go back and watch/play faithfully? I don't get your insistence on this point... You brought it up before and no one agreed with you... You don't like it, great...go watch some fucking cricket.
posted by StarFucker at 08:18 AM on August 19, 2005
I dont see why people are always comparing US football to soccer. The games are not similar in anyway. Football players and their fans dont care about soccer or their fans. Soccer players are only looked at to be our punters and place kickers, the lowest totem on the pole. Leave the #1 team sport in the world out of your mouths, most of you havent even seen a pro football game whereas I have seen plenty of professiosnal soccer.
posted by Drallig9399 at 08:53 AM on August 19, 2005
Soccer players are only looked at to be our punters and place kickers, the lowest totem on the pole. That is rather funny. Because when you look at the numbers it is the place kickers who do the most scoring.
posted by scully at 09:02 AM on August 19, 2005
yeah, and who put them in position to score. They certainly didnt move the ball up the field at all. Yes, I realize that they have a great amount of skill at what they do, but they still dont do much playing of football. No kicker can really call themselves a football player.
posted by Drallig9399 at 09:08 AM on August 19, 2005
most of you havent even seen a pro football game whereas I have seen plenty of professiosnal soccer. We bow to your genius and unwavering, even-handed paradigm. Please, old wise one, tell us more.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:10 AM on August 19, 2005
How many kickers are in the hall of fame?
posted by Drallig9399 at 09:16 AM on August 19, 2005
Texan, will you answer my first question. Why are people always comparing US football to soccer?
posted by Drallig9399 at 09:19 AM on August 19, 2005
was trying to find some numbers to dispute the fact the "Leave the #1 team sport in the world out of your mouths" statement (it's not even the #1 sport in the US, let alone the world where it's barely played), and I found, ladies and gentlemen, that we're linked off The wikipedia entry for sport. Go us!
posted by BigCalm at 09:28 AM on August 19, 2005
off topic, but it looks like motorsport is the most watched sport, football (with the feet guys, not the helmets) is the most played with table tennis (!) behind that.
posted by BigCalm at 09:30 AM on August 19, 2005
motorsport is the most watched sport, Measured how? In the world? On tee vee? Live? Coming as they typically do without any defining of terms, all these "mosts" are pretty dopey
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:35 AM on August 19, 2005
Drallig...and this is just my opinion...fans of different sports want to know if they're supporting the tough guys...the real mean bastards you don't want to see in a dark alley. The sports are so different and require such distinct skill and athletic abilities that arguments like this one make me laugh. I've been a player and big fan of both sports for many, many years but I don't suppose that makes me more expert than anyone else. They're just...different...the only reason this issue ever comes up is because the rest of the world calls soccer "football" (it's a ball...and you move it with your foot) while here in America, we call American football "football." What I do find interesting in this debate is that I've never heard of Aussies coming in to pit Aussie Rules Football vs. soccer. It may happen, but I've never seen it. It seems to be a uniquely American thing to thump our chests and say "We're the best. Our sports are the best. Our beer is the best. Our women are the best"...ok, that may be true...but you see where I'm coming from...we feel this need to be the best when in fact, we're not, and it's OK that we're not. Personally, I don't give a fu(k what anyone calls either sport...they're both amazing sports to me...both with their faults and both able to create the kind of excitement that make your ears ring. But then...I've never sat back...either in front of the TV or at the stadium...and thought, OK...you (sport)...show me what you've got. Prove to me you're exciting...prove to me I won't fall asleep. It's just silly. Either enjoy a sport or don't enjoy it but there's no need to run down what someone else finds entertaining. This thread is about soccer...football...whatever you want to call it...there's plenty of American football threads to comment on as opposed to running down a sport. You'll never see me going into a golf thread talking about how crap it is...what's the use? It reminds me of two kids picking their noses...trying to pull out the biggest booger. At the end of the day...who gives a fu(k?
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:42 AM on August 19, 2005
The #1 team sport is definitely reasonable when you look at the # of players that have to be on the same page to win. You are talking about 35 to 50 guys hitting the field per team per game. Do you really think the amount of chemistry and discipline it takes to win in the NFL, or college for that matter, is matched by any other sport? Then on top of that it is way more complicated than just about any other sport, the playbooks are as thick as novels and we all know about the rules.
posted by Drallig9399 at 09:47 AM on August 19, 2005
Thats cool Texan, but I didnt just jump into this thread and start talking about US football. It was here before me.
posted by Drallig9399 at 09:50 AM on August 19, 2005
I understand...and I wasn't pointing at you in particular. This seems to happen every single time there's a debate over which sport is better. I just don't see the need for it, from either side. Let's just all roll a big MOSS and hang out at the 30-TV Sports-o-plex...happiness all around! Next round's on me!
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:55 AM on August 19, 2005
Drallig, the question should be Why are Americans comparing American Football to the real Football? Because they are ignorant. They have to make themselves feel better for spending $75+ a game then $13 for a beer and a soggy hot dog then get to there seats and realize they are watching a grown man fondle another grown mans ass. I have played Football all my life, and i own season tickets to the Carolina Panthers (going to the SB this year).But as for yank ball being the #1 team sport in the world you must be retarded, so if you don't have any common sense keep words out of your own mouth. P.S. The MLS is not Professional Soccer
posted by acesrt132 at 09:57 AM on August 19, 2005
Compete: To strive with another or others [Lat Competere: to strive together] ... Competition can be found in any sport. As far as the challenge to offer ultimate competition, football {Americana} delivers on multiple levels; much like war it encompasses the physical brute realities as well as the cerebral ability to think beyond the attrition of battle. Yeah, it's out of control by price, yet, the very fact that such overpriced events are continuously sold out should let the casually curious (those who will not actually go see what all the fuss is about) know that there is something about it... An opiate of the masses--of a type.
posted by GalLiTeR at 10:07 AM on August 19, 2005
So do you have an opinion as to which sport is the #1? If they arent amateurs then they are professionals, right? So you have season tickets to get an up close view of a grown man fondling another grown man, what does that say about your tastes?
posted by Drallig9399 at 10:07 AM on August 19, 2005
And in other news, this thread still has nothing to do with American football.
posted by squealy at 10:19 AM on August 19, 2005
Back on point, Ingle is right. It's easy to be nostalgic, but it was much more fun to be a supporter in the terraces fifteen years ago. And this makes me sad.
posted by etagloh at 10:41 AM on August 19, 2005
So do you have an opinion as to which sport is the #1? I have an opinion that that's a really pointless question. What, are you gonna get some kind of prize for being a fan of the "#1 sport"? Gonna get some kind of money or trophy to put on your mantel next to the big screen tee vee? No? Then it's right up there with an adolescent contest to see who can lighttthe biggest fart: even if you win, your ass still got burned.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:45 AM on August 19, 2005
I just read the article and am completely confused as to why people are debating American football and soccer. Did anybody read the article?
posted by curlyelk at 10:46 AM on August 19, 2005
Maybe we are losing sight of what is important. I have played soccer for many years and enjoy the action. I also enjoy the american style of football. But the real question is, Will women's bikini beach volleyball ever take the place of Monday Night Football or the World Cup? Let's get our priorities right... lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
posted by soccerduderr at 10:51 AM on August 19, 2005
I just read the article and am completely confused as to why people are debating American football and soccer. curlyelk, the article just gives American soccer-haters a chance to pounce and say See...even a British publication says your sport is crap. It's just turned into another dog-chasing-its-tail thread. Ruf.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 11:05 AM on August 19, 2005
I agree with the article. I hardly go to matches any more. I probably could afford to, but I no longer think live football is good value for money. For what I'd have to give up to watch West Brom regularly, I'd rather have Sky Sports and a disposable income. Oh, and all you American football fans pissing in this thread, just fuck off and die will you?
posted by salmacis at 11:24 AM on August 19, 2005
/dies /rolls rock away, leaves cave
posted by yerfatma at 11:59 AM on August 19, 2005
Starfucker, you really are a twat. I posted an article I thought was interesting, why the personal attack? Other people seemed to find it interesting which is the whole point of this website. I don't want to get into a slanging match with someone I don't even know, why would you?
posted by Pete at 12:30 PM on August 19, 2005
It's an interesting link Pete. I was going to post it myself but the bastards made me do some work today.
posted by squealy at 12:57 PM on August 19, 2005
The article's about the disdain sports franchises hold for their supporters. As a lifelong fan of both the Baltimore Orioles and the Washington Redskins, I can tell you that this is a relatively recent phenomenon that doesn't seem to be limited to the EPL, or even just soccer. Skyrocketing ticket prices, luxury-box-heavy new stadiums, pay-per-view TV contracts, owners pledging money for all-star rosters without a thought to team chemistry or league parity; all these things benefit the owners and detract from the enjoyment of the fans. Angelos did it to the O's, Snyder to the 'Skins. All over the leagues, payroll gaps are getting bigger as competitive parity suffers. A pretty obvious pattern emerges: the bottom line is more important than the spectators. It happens all over, wherever advertisers and sports teams share the same goal: to make money. At this point, the ordinary fans don't matter. They don't milk the cash cow anywhere near as efficiently as do bigwigs and politicos in the luxury boxes they railroad state taxpayers into paying for. Eventually, it will no longer be compelling to watch teams strive to win one for the bottom line. Until then, it's still soccer (or baseball, or football), and it's still a blast. But how long can I watch after I know they aren't playing for my pride? Why should I care about them, when they act like I don't exist?
posted by Hugh Janus at 01:07 PM on August 19, 2005
I don't care what any of you say, this thread contains some of the funniest comments I've read here. I particularly like the fart and booger ones. Big time LOL.
posted by tommysands at 01:19 PM on August 19, 2005
I never grew up with futbol and never had much interest in it until the US World Cup. I love hockey, baseball and basketball (I am a casual football fan) and for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone who loves sports would find futbol boring. And I can't abide the claim. Just give the game a small bit of focus and attention and you'll see human magic. The level of skill is unbelievable to me - moreso when you think of the fact that it involves nothing more than a ball and feet (and head). The nuances are easyily understood and seen - the strategies simple to grasp and beautiful to behold when executed as a team. It has all the marks of a great team game, and all the room in the world for individual brilliance. I have no difficulty in seeing how the world has fallen in love with it. Just a ball and your feet. No special equipment, no pads - easlity the most accessible game going. Now, perhaps the professional ranks have been muddied by the same things that muddy pro sports anywhere - rich teams pilfering poorer teams, lack of competition or likeable millionaires, but to say futbol is boring belies a lack of true sporting ideals. It plainly is not boring - it's a competition. If you look for empty constant buzzing excitment and flash than go to a concert or a movie made by Michael Bay.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:27 PM on August 19, 2005
Don't worry about SF. He doesn't mind pissing on other people's sports (like the WNBA, women's soccer), but doesn't like it when someone pisses on his favourite sport.
posted by grum@work at 01:31 PM on August 19, 2005
"He doesn't mind pissing on other people's sports (like the WNBA, women's soccer)..." When you bring up a real sport i'll respond... And Pete, i only bring that up because you tried once before to piss and moan about it without much attention. So you thought you'd try again?
posted by StarFucker at 01:38 PM on August 19, 2005
Right on, Weedy. Funny that Washington's only successful sports franchise is DC United. A team that goes out of its way to please its fan base. The US National Team culls scads of players from the MLS. And is ranked in the FIFA top 10 (ahead of England, among others). If you haven't watched an MLS game in a few years, check it out. They're playing well now. The whole "which is better/which sucks more" argument isn't worth it. De gustibus yadda yadda, and most of the disputers haven't lifted a fork.
posted by Hugh Janus at 01:42 PM on August 19, 2005
FWIW I didn't think Pete was running down footie by posting the thread. the stuff in the presentation is all directly lifted from the preamble to the article and I didn't take it as Pete slamming anything. The author of the article loves footie (if you ask me) and is finding some aspects are worthy of despair. That's not like he is says that football sucks. the discussion moving to American Football though... WTF. Such as This article goes in circles. First he talks about how much rubbish american football is... ?? No mention of American football made in the article. A big confusion bomb exploded somewhere upthread which has really made for some... well, like t-sands said, we at least got some funny fart and booger comments.
posted by gspm at 02:08 PM on August 19, 2005
gspm... I take offense to Pete's comments because like i said in one of my previous posts... He already brought it up somewhere else and no one cared...in fact, gave him a good thrashing. Then he goes and posts an FPP about the same damn thing. Someone need attention?
posted by StarFucker at 02:26 PM on August 19, 2005
"He doesn't mind pissing on other people's sports (like the WNBA, women's soccer)..." When you bring up a real sport i'll respond... Ooooh! Burn! Like I said, he can dish it but can't seem to take it. ... Anyways, I've played, ref'd, and watched soccer for years. It's not as fast-paced as hockey, basketball or football, but it's much more exciting than baseball. That said, I enjoy watching baseball more than all the others (except a live hockey game) because I like ths slow pace. It's also why I like watching the occassional EPL game on Saturday morning. Sometimes, it's not all about the action, but about the planning.
posted by grum@work at 02:27 PM on August 19, 2005
well, like t-sands said, we at least got some funny fart and booger comments And really, isn't that what it's all about? And beer. Can't forget the beer.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 03:33 PM on August 19, 2005
Fucker, I enjoy coming to this website and so I'm not going to engage in a childish slanging match with you. Do me a favour, don't read my posts and I won't read yours.
posted by Pete at 03:33 PM on August 19, 2005
From Pete's profile... I love: Football. I'll watch any football, any league, any country but in particular I love: Coventry City Football club...Arsenal... Someone needs to update their profile...
posted by StarFucker at 04:50 PM on August 19, 2005
Beat that horse, StarFucker!
posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:53 PM on August 19, 2005
You should back off Fucker. Come back when you've supported a shite team like Cov or Birmingham for twenty years through thin and thinner. Maybe then you'll understand.
posted by squealy at 05:55 PM on August 19, 2005
but he has - liverpool /runs off and hides
posted by BigCalm at 06:49 PM on August 19, 2005
I'm just sayin'... I don't mean to get into a fight here... I'm upset that Pete decided to take it to the FPP after no one was really interested in the first place. I love football...granted, i got started late and this is all i know. I don't know the so called glory days of Liverpool and the time before the Premier League. But i'm sure there were people back then who said football was shite and now are longing for those days. It is what it is, and if Pete knows about other sports, especially in the US he would know that he is actually spoiled by football in Europe. If you watched any American sports, the only thing you would get out of it is what commercial was the best...
posted by StarFucker at 06:49 PM on August 19, 2005
when you've supported a shite team who said football was shite I love this thread. Better to get it on here than in the streets. BTW what's a shite ?
posted by tommysands at 06:57 PM on August 19, 2005
A shite is a small bird of prey, similar to a kestrel except flightless. *group hug*
posted by squealy at 07:17 PM on August 19, 2005
Better to get it on here than in the streets. I remember voicing a similar opinion to your moms. Still feel the same way?
posted by yerfatma at 07:35 PM on August 19, 2005
But i'm sure there were people back then who said football was shite and now are longing for those days. They're called 'parents'. But you're not paying attention to Ingle's points. The lack of atmosphere assisted by third-rate local DJs piping 'choons' until two minutes before a match. The loss of terracing. The predictability of league results even if individual matches throw up surprises. The flabbiness of the calendar thanks to the debasing of European club championships. The fact that clubs consider it reasonable to charge away fans top rates for shit seats with restricted views. (It's around £40 in the Prem these days. Forty fucking quid to go to the shithole that is Selhurst Park too. Dugout seats at Turner Field are cheaper than an away ticket at most Premiership grounds, while upper deck tickets are $5.) Twatting around with the kickoff times to satisfy the fat fucks at Sky, which makes independent travel ridiculous. Forty quid for a replica shirt that will fall apart after three washes, changes design every year, and thirty quid for a kid's size. Being a fan these days (rather than eating crisps in front of football on the telly) means being raped up the arse every weekend.
posted by etagloh at 10:22 PM on August 19, 2005
Oh, and if you look at ticket prices in Europe, it's plain to see that most Premiership clubs are running an extortion racket. It's probably cheaper to fly to Italy or Spain for a match these days than to take the train from the north of England to a London game.
posted by etagloh at 10:28 PM on August 19, 2005
Oh, and if you look at ticket prices in Europe, it's plain to see that most Premiership clubs are running an extortion racket. It's probably cheaper to fly to Italy or Spain for a match these days than to take the train from the north of England to a London game. I gotta say, after all of these shenanigans, I'm glad to hear Roma prices are reasonable, considering I'm planning a trip there in early December, and, as always, I must catch a game any time I travel abroad.
posted by Ufez Jones at 10:54 PM on August 19, 2005
Being a fan these days (rather than eating crisps in front of football on the telly) means being raped up the arse every weekend. eta, I love the way you guys talk. -:) /just sayin
posted by tommysands at 11:58 AM on August 20, 2005
Well squealy, how was the atmosphere yesterday? The first half looked exciting on TV...other than the players looking like they were dressed as cartoon characters in the Easter Parade. With this new blue of Birmingham and Citeh wearing pale yet flourescent (how is that possible???) yellow shirts, it was indeed a spectacle. And I thought your Blues were unlucky not to win it. Forssell just needs a little time before he starts banging in the goals, but there are good players throughout the team, including possibly the most underrated 'keeper in the league.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:34 AM on August 21, 2005
FWIW, the Football Fans are Idiots - followup column features reader responses. They tend to agree.
posted by gspm at 05:34 PM on August 27, 2005
uncompetitive? what are you basing your opinions on?