11/21/24
December 02, 2004
Giambi admits steroid use.: No way!
posted by worldcup2002 to baseball at 02:09 AM - 41 comments
Maybe it's me but I don't care. You still have to hit the damn ball. Barry is still electrifying to watch and good for the sport. I'm not a huge baseball fan so take it for what it is worth.
posted by geekyguy at 06:12 AM on December 02, 2004
I'm with you geekyguy. And here's our proof: Jeremy Giambi . . . also told the BALCO grand jury that he had injected banned drugs
posted by yerfatma at 06:32 AM on December 02, 2004
Nedrow suggested Jeremy Giambi probably also trusted Anderson's drugs because his brother had taken them, too. Said Jeremy: "Yeah, and Jason didn't die." Nice zinger there at the end. I sincerely hope, for baseball's sake, that this Greg Anderson is working on two fronts: one that's about weight training and nutrition and mineral deficiencies yadda yadda for athletes who want to stay clean, and another that's simply about supplying steroids. It's close to wishful thinking at this point. Still, the fact that Anderson seemed to take a cue from a steroid-positive drug test on the brothers Giambi to start a drug/steroid/HGH regimen with them gives me a little hope that perhaps some athletes were only using BALCO for legitimate purposes. In the end, though, if it turns out that Bonds and Sheffield and all these other athletes were all on the juice, I'll be disappointed, but I'll still watch the game. I'd be curious to see how it changes.
posted by rocketman at 06:56 AM on December 02, 2004
Wow, that is wishful thinking. I wager that Giambi knew exactly what he was getting into when he approached Anderson. Everyone in the league saw Barry Bonds go from all-star to super-human and the Giambi boys wanted to get some of what he got. A pox on all their houses. Cheaters should be banned for life.
posted by 86 at 09:01 AM on December 02, 2004
He said it. He did it. 86 is right and that's just the fact. If you don't issue a smackdown on this, you are helping to create a situation in which using steroids is part of the price of admission to the big leagues in many sports. Eventually they'll all be as bad as boxing.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:17 AM on December 02, 2004
Cheaters should be banned for life. Maybe. But only because it makes for even better drama when people do cheat; to risk it all to improve by even 1% is . . . dramatic, anyway. That may only be true in my household: I don't think a no-hitter is any more interesting than a game where a starter is tossed for an emery board or Vaseline or whatever.
posted by yerfatma at 09:20 AM on December 02, 2004
Maybe it's me but I don't care. You still have to hit the damn ball. Barry is still electrifying to watch and good for the sport. I'm not a huge baseball fan so take it for what it is worth There is more to baseball than hitting HR's--I am sick of peopel who say--"you still have to hit the ball!" Have we fallen so far that we dont care about a person's health?? Steroids are are bad for those who take them for performance enhancing pruposes. Heck, steroids do bad things when their taken for actual health care purposes. People who take "roids" are not only breaking the law, they are cheating---
posted by daddisamm at 09:24 AM on December 02, 2004
Separated at birth: Jeremy Giambi and "The MILF Hunter".
posted by yerfatma at 09:29 AM on December 02, 2004
how did these people get a hold of the grand jury testimony? aren't these things supposed to be sealed? i'm certainly not absolving giambi in any way, but he's gotta feel pretty violated today.
posted by goddam at 09:41 AM on December 02, 2004
yerfatma, I'm almost ashamed I get that joke, but not really. Good one. Steroids are are bad for those who take them for performance enhancing pruposes. That's not our problem. If Giambi wants to compromise his immune system, that's up to him. As for hitting the ball, you do still have to hit the ball, something no amount of strength will help you do. Sure, it'll help you hit it deep, but performance-enhancing substances don't magically create an ability to tell a ball from a strike. As far as cheating goes, meh. Doping is totally punk rock. That's right, the spirit of Sid lives on in Jason Giambi.
posted by rocketman at 09:43 AM on December 02, 2004
Performance-enhancing substances may not help you hit the ball, but they have that name for a reason. If Giambi wants to compromise his immune system, good on him, but when that in turn compromises the game, good riddance. yerfatma, that's freaking hilarious. goddam, I had the same thought, but consider this... When this thing goes to trial, Giambi is going to be called to testify. That testimony will likely mimic the grand jury testimony and will be very, very public. I don't condone the leak, but this was going to be become public knowledge around the time of spring training (if I'm not mistaken) anyway.
posted by 86 at 09:59 AM on December 02, 2004
I heard an interview on NPR this AM with someone from the Chronicle, I believe one of the authors of the article, and they are most definitely not saying how they got the testimony (which was indeed supposed to be sealed). Re: Giambi being violated, is it just me, or has he always had this sort of "I just got chumped" facial expression?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:03 AM on December 02, 2004
re: That's not our problem read this re: the leak/info entering public domain - check out offwing's analysis and tidbit about a 20/20 interview of Victor Conte
posted by garfield at 10:08 AM on December 02, 2004
86, true, sooner or later this probably would have come out in a regular trial. my concern is that in the future other athletes may be less forthright with their testimony if they know that there's a good chance that it could be leaked. l_b_b, it's not just you.
posted by goddam at 10:11 AM on December 02, 2004
When I saw this story my initial thought was it came out of Giambi's camp as an attempt to minimize the damage from 20/20 tomorrow night. Better to "admit" than react to accusations that will be proven true. Doping is totally punk rock. You're in the wrong thread. That's over on MeTa.
posted by yerfatma at 10:17 AM on December 02, 2004
so, what is the MLBPA policy on drugs? Where would this fall? I seem to recall the averted strike/lockout/whatever in 2002 (?) including some consession by the MLBPA about drugs but it being a toothless and symbolic move. despite any hand wringing among the fans - is this a suspensionable/punishable offence? what can we expect?
posted by gspm at 10:18 AM on December 02, 2004
gspm, from what i heard (namely from buster onley who's on michael kay's radio show right now) assuming that 2003 was the last time he used, there was nothing in place at that time to suspend a player using steriods. he could've shot up on the pitcher's mound during the seventh inning stretch at yankee stadium and there's nothing they could do about it. bud and co. could probably try to punish him somehow but don't expect the player's union to be receptive to it.
posted by goddam at 10:30 AM on December 02, 2004
If you don't issue a smackdown on this, you are helping to create a situation in which using steroids is part of the price of admission to the big leagues in many sports. That's exactly why it has to be stopped. If you look the other way at performance enhancers in a sport, you will reach a point where players who don't use them can't compete with their boosted peers. You have to give the honest, clean players a level playing field. Not only for their own sake, but for the integrity of the sport.
posted by rcade at 11:26 AM on December 02, 2004
yerfatma, I had the same thought. Knowing this would be public and would likely be public at a very poor time (spring training), is it possible that Giambi's people leaked this to get it out in the open during the winter months? If not, why was it just the testimony of the Giambi brothers and not Sheff and Bonds? Anyway, it's something I thought about... Though I think it is wrong to leak this crap no matter who did it. And goddam, I hear ya and agree with you 100% on the leak stuff. If I let on otherwise somehow I didn't mean to.
posted by 86 at 11:29 AM on December 02, 2004
Maybe it's me but I don't care. You still have to hit the damn ball. More strength produces greater bat-speed, which enables you to wait fractionally longer before swinging. And the longer you wait before swinging, the better you "see" the ball. So steroids can give you an edge in overall batting average. At least that is what I've read.
posted by molafson at 11:53 AM on December 02, 2004
Letting this go just serves to set a bad precedent. It's an integrity issue; the minutia of steriod use's effect on the playing field is absolutely secondary.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:06 PM on December 02, 2004
word
posted by garfield at 12:25 PM on December 02, 2004
With respect to the "you still have to hit the ball" theory, all major league hitters (okay, most major league hitters) can make contact and hit fly balls. The extra oomph from steroids potentially has the impact of making certain deep outfield and warning track fly balls home runs. It's like an injectable Coors Field effect. Also, whoever said above that the MLBPA will never allow anything to become of this is right. Contrary to the NBA, where Artest & co.'s suspensions will probably not be knocked down and players get suspended for substance abuse violations, the MLBPA regularly gets suspensions knocked down on appeal and negotiated a drug policy with no teeth.
posted by holden at 12:27 PM on December 02, 2004
Sundry issues: 1. Giambi's testimony was released, and not Sheffield's or Bond's. Perhaps the Chronicle didn't want the race card to rear its ugly head? 2. The timing. Leaks before the season tend to lose momentum during the season. Unless the story really has legs. 3. The labor contract and Giambi's status. MLB, in all it's wisdom, created a drug policy that doesn't actually police drug use. The Yanks are stuck with Giambi unless they are able to get 2 other teams to agree to deal, cause their is no way that anyone will deal for him straight up.
posted by lilnemo at 01:22 PM on December 02, 2004
lilnemo - I don't know about point #2. I can't think of a story with more legs than this..
posted by blarp at 02:09 PM on December 02, 2004
1. Giambi's testimony was released, and not Sheffield's or Bond's. Perhaps the Chronicle didn't want the race card to rear its ugly head? The Chronicle may not have had their testimony. All they said is that they got Giambi's testimony, and they're still not saying how they got it.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:24 PM on December 02, 2004
Yes, "You still have to hit the ball," but Giambi has made his NAME by hitting the heck out of it, like Bonds has (for the most part.) The yanks don't pay him all that $ for just his good looks...they're paying for the big hitting and that is being accomplished by cheating. I hope they do something very serious to these guys. Not monetary fines...who cares when you make as much as them...I'm talking banning from the sport, banning from the hall of fame, make the union accept random drug tests or tests before and after EACH GAME. Stuff like that...is the only way to get them clean.
posted by aacheson at 02:24 PM on December 02, 2004
The Chronicle isn't the entity that leaked grand jury testimony. The paper would have run the story whenever they had it nailed. If we're looking into the timing of this, you have to consider the possible motives of the person who leaked it. This story has the potential to be as historic in baseball as the Black Sox scandal and the banning of Pete Rose. If we find out that San Francisco OF has doped his way into the single-season and all-time home run records, baseball will be the only sport where three of its most cherished records are held by cheaters. I don't even think Ford Frick could come up with asterisks big enough to handle that.
posted by rcade at 02:31 PM on December 02, 2004
Replace the asterisk with a minature syringe.
posted by 86 at 02:36 PM on December 02, 2004
Start a home-run derby league with Giambi and Bonds in which doping is allowed. Then geekyguy and yerfatma would have something to watch, and the rest of us could watch baseball. No?
posted by DrJohnEvans at 03:04 PM on December 02, 2004
Just what I was thinking DrJ. Create new leagues made up of these freaks. I want them in body armour, fighting off wild animals, dodging shots from non-lethal weapons. Bring the fun back to sports. It's a savage world at least entertain me.
posted by catfish at 03:17 PM on December 02, 2004
Start a home-run derby league with Giambi and Bonds in which doping is allowed. Aw, don't be like that. I hate the whole scandal because it casts a cloud over any and all records set during this era. It's like putting a asterisk on the whole era. I'll be an old-timer when some young punk starts "Gee whiz, golly, jeehosophatin'" about Bonds numbers and I'll have to say, "Remember that he used drugs. And turn down the thermostat." Plus it might let the Yankees get out from under Giambi's onerous contract.
posted by yerfatma at 03:24 PM on December 02, 2004
And here is the article from the Chronicle the day after the actual testimony, Dec. 12, 2003, mentioning everyone who testified that day...so where are the other portions of the transcript? Not leaked? These parts are leaked but not anyone else's testimony. Many of the other testifying that day had to have similar admissions...so who leaked part of the transcript to them? The Giambi damage control folks or whatever? Otherwise if it was the whole thing you know the Chronicle would have pasted everyone. And they should have syringes next to their names for any records...or they can open up an experimental league akin to the "all drug olympics" sketch on SNL from long ago, that way if the market will support a clean league and a juice-monkey-steroid-freak league then both will exist, if not may the winning league live on... I think Catfish is thinking of PRO THUNDERBALL on 'roids though...
posted by chris2sy at 03:43 PM on December 02, 2004
Yeah, the asterisk issue is a real pain. It's really tough to determine just how good someone was when drugs were involved, especially since the effects can vary so widely from person to person (Giambi said he didn't notice much difference, the Giants are working out a deal with MLB in which they'll automatically be assigned one run for each of Barry's scheduled at-bats). Me, I subscribe to the belief in baseball as the pastoral sport of perfect calibration, in which the teams and the field are balanced so that you'll hit the ball two or three times out of ten, you'll field the ball perfectly nine hundred ninety times out of a thousand, and the ball will beat you to first base by half a step every time. I get really irritated with anything that upsets that balance, like rain, or doping, or wayward seagulls.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 03:48 PM on December 02, 2004
Maybe it's me but I don't care. You still have to hit the damn ball. Barry is still electrifying to watch and good for the sport. I'm not a huge baseball fan so take it for what it is worth. I do care. It's likely that the roid use contributed to his somewhat bizarre streak of recent injuries and likely tweaked his stats when he was playing. He should be punished. I'd say an indefinite suspension until the full extent of his use can be investigated by MLB and then something like a 1/2 season suspension with him on probation for a year or two after than. I honestly don't believe in the asterisk idea; largely for the reasons stated by DrJohnEvans. Of course doing roids, or other types of drugs for that matter, does not automatically make him a evil person so I think he should have another shot to play if a team would sign him or the Yankees would be willing to take him back. I do think that he needs to serve some significant time and be made to sing like a stool pigeon if possible (although I cannot see him ratting his fellow players out).
posted by Bag Man at 11:20 PM on December 02, 2004
6. Which superpower would you want most: the strength of 100 men, the ability to fly, turn invisible or shoot fire out your rear end? Giambi: I think I can already do the last one. Probably the strength of 100 men. 6a. You're about the first one to say that. Almost everyone else picks invisible. Giambi: No, strength is more practical. It would be such an advantage in this game. From the man himself.
posted by justgary at 01:16 AM on December 03, 2004
Reports out today have Bonds admitting to "unknowingly" using steroids.
posted by mick at 06:50 AM on December 03, 2004
So it would appear that either Bonds is a fool, or he thinks everyone else is.
posted by rocketman at 07:47 AM on December 03, 2004
Why not both?
posted by DrJohnEvans at 03:10 PM on December 03, 2004
Well, at least he admitted it. Now kick him out! I'm a huge Giambi fan and I hope I never see him play again. Just like I would fire a drug user at work, fire them all I say and hire new potential drug users.
posted by aaronscmc11 at 04:54 PM on December 03, 2004
I'm shocked.