July 31, 2003

Doesn't sound good for Kobe Bryant.: Trying to mislead the police. Physical trauma around the vaginal area. Visible signs of physical injury. Are opinions on Sportsfilter changing? If Kobe goes to jail would this be the most unexpected, astounding fall from grace in sports history? Will Bryant be able to play at all this year? What would the media circus be like?

posted by Mike McD to basketball at 04:50 PM - 45 comments

well, it's going to take a good bit of detail in court to prove that the trauma is from coercion and not from the act. This may be the most immature thing I've ever said, but a small girl getting it from a very tall black man probably causes some vaginal trauma, consensual or not. I've decided that we're never going to know what happened, but I still think that it's going to be a huge surprise if he's convicted. I think if he IS convicted, that would be pretty much the most unexpected and astounding falls from grace. He's pretty much the best player in the NBA, and that'd be the end of his career, and he'd rot in jail. That'd rank right up there with the biggest stories of all time.

posted by Bernreuther at 05:15 PM on July 31, 2003

Not that I know what its like to ask a hostess back to my room, but I imagine those visits usually take longer than a half-hour, if everything is consensual. I mean, why risk it at all if its going to be over so quick. Make a night of it, or at the very least go back for round two. Thats what I'd do if I was a wealthy adulertous scumbag. If anything, the whole 'time-frame' issue speaks to nonconsenuality.

posted by garfield at 05:30 PM on July 31, 2003

Call me crazy, but I'm guessing those anonymous sources might have something to gain from spreading allegations of "vaginal trauma." Let's wait for the trial.

posted by rcade at 05:30 PM on July 31, 2003

What rcade said.

posted by therev at 06:08 PM on July 31, 2003

Because he's black and tall, doesn't mean he's going to be enormously well endowed. Enough said there.

posted by jerseygirl at 06:57 PM on July 31, 2003

those visits usually take longer than a half-hour Not if he was 'unsatisfied' with her performance or she got nervous about the whole thing.

posted by billsaysthis at 07:05 PM on July 31, 2003

Or she made this whole mess start because she was upset about a quick, rough session and then getting the boot when he wanted some peace and quiet.

posted by billsaysthis at 07:06 PM on July 31, 2003

She probably was asking for it because she was in his room, too. Right?

posted by jerseygirl at 07:19 PM on July 31, 2003

They meet that day. The invite. Then within a half hour of getting it on with Kobe, she jets. That sounds probable, especially considering she is giving up the boots so quickly because it is Kobe. If he is unsatisified by an ex-cheerleading 19 year old, well, I suppose Kobe has real high standards. But for someone who embodied class before "she made this whole mess start," you'd think he'd be a tad more classy...he wouldn't want to sully his reputation or anything.

posted by garfield at 08:12 PM on July 31, 2003

For every possibility that she was up there, they had sex consensually and he kicked her out afterwards, there's a possibility that she was up there with him, she couldn't get him to stop, and she ran out of that room the first chance she had. It's intriguing to speculate, and I know some of you guys are passionate Kobe Bryant fans and just completely dead set against this girl already, but what is being leaked to the press now is simply attempts (by BOTH sides) to contaminate potential jurors... keep that in mind.

posted by jerseygirl at 08:59 PM on July 31, 2003

A friend of mine who posts here pretty frequently mentioned to me that Kobe has "fixers". Their job isn't to work on a legal team or anything, they just leak information to the media and get paid for it. Apparently they're paid well. I'll try to dig up some links and get back to you all.

posted by Samsonov14 at 09:59 PM on July 31, 2003

Here you go. It's a pretty messy situation, and it's almost impossible to tell who's telling the truth. In a perfect world, Kobe would buy his beautiful wife a $4 million dollar ring for no reason at all, and I'd be the guy sleeping with 19 year-old receptionists.

posted by Samsonov14 at 10:11 PM on July 31, 2003

Weird. Here's the article I was linking to.

posted by Samsonov14 at 10:12 PM on July 31, 2003

good call jerseygirl. there pretty much won't be any untainted jurors, and voir dire could very well make or break the case. On that other issue, well, I was just playing the percentages ;)

posted by Bernreuther at 10:25 PM on July 31, 2003

For boneheads like myself - voir dire.

posted by Samsonov14 at 10:29 PM on July 31, 2003

jg, I don't know if she said yes or no, just giving scenarios where 30 minutes fit. Plus, you'll note that I gave reasons why either would have left.

posted by billsaysthis at 11:09 PM on July 31, 2003

Let me get this straight: - famous athlete, with copious media attention - on secretive visit to doctor (team didn't know about it) - committing adultery - with young woman he JUST met that day I'd have been surprised if it DID last more than 30 minutes (no matter which side of the "Did he or didn't he" argument he is on). What are people expecting him to do? Take her out for a night on the town? Order room service? Let her stay the night and have breakfast with her in the restaurant the next morning?

posted by grum@work at 11:19 PM on July 31, 2003

that's what a gentleman would have done ;) We've seen that there could be many reasons for the short time period, so I'm sure the defense will be able to explain that away...

posted by Bernreuther at 11:33 PM on July 31, 2003

grummie hit it on the head. This was a guilty act on both their parts. She responded to her guilt by asking him to stop. He did, or he didn't, and the trial won't tell us whether he did or he didn't, only whether or not there is evidence to convict him. This would be an enormous fall from grace, but probably not beyond O.J. Simpson since his crime was more heinous. (Not as big a star, but it was double homicide after all)

posted by vito90 at 12:30 AM on August 01, 2003

We don't know that it was a guilty act on anyone's part. It could be rape; it could be a completely false accusation. On what we do know, Bryant looks terrible, in my estimation, for trying to skip his first hearing. Without presuming his guilt, I think his rep is damaged by the shameless PR effort undertaken in his name -- the Staples Center public confession to his wife, the news getting out (presumably on purpose) of the $4 million ring purchase, and now this hearing.

posted by rcade at 07:41 AM on August 01, 2003

The NY Post is reporting that Kobe orginally lied to the police.

posted by Mike McD at 08:20 AM on August 01, 2003

All just speculation. His guilt or innocence may be in doubt - but it is now genuinely crushing his career.(Kobe lied, vaginal injury) Will an innocent verdict be able to resurrect it? I don't think that having a press conference is a bad call (maybe the ring was - but that's on so many levels) - if he had offered total silence, would that have been any more beneficial?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:30 AM on August 01, 2003

Hey vito - know a rape victim? Whatever you do, don't mention on a value scale where their victimhood sits. They think its pretty moot - after being raped.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:33 AM on August 01, 2003

The whole thing gets messier and messier. I think Kobe's rep will be forever tarnished. If it is all cleared and he's innocent there is still the adultery thing and the machinations and spin doctoring that are unseemly. If he's guilty or at least comes across that way in the court (like OJ) then wow, it would be one of the biggest falls from grace in sports history. I can't think of any previous falls that might compare. Kobe is a top 3 player in the league. That's a lofty perch to be falling from. I'm trying not to even pay any attention to this. He's an athlete, this is his private life and it just rings of another tabloid case that cable TV will love and they can slot it down next to OJ, Bobbit, JonBenet and on and on... I try not to pay any attention to that stuff but it just ends up everywhere.

posted by gspm at 08:49 AM on August 01, 2003

Vore Dire ... I thought he was that 7-footer the Mavs drafted last season. I think you have to define what you mean by "reputation." If you mean his standing among his peers, I highly doubt any of this will make any difference. You lie down with dogs ... If you're talking public opinion, it's going to be damaging, but the public tends to forget (except perhaps in the OJ case). Some people will still buy his jerseys, and he'll still be cheered at the Staples Center. If you talking endorsements, he's done. The fact that he cheated on his wife and admitted it will be enough to wipe out some of his contracts and make marketers think thrice about signing him up for their products. This has some pretty decent (if mealy-mouthed) opinions.

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:11 AM on August 01, 2003

I dunno - I would think that this doesn't really compare to OJ at all - a retired athlete, out of the spotlight until the trial. I think more of a cross between Mike Tyson and Jason Kidd. We're talking rape here - serious offence, he'll go to prison if convicted. So here's my two cents. Now Tyson has always been viewed as something of a violent man (Was the golden boy who picked himself up off the streets, then he hit Robin Givens, then he raped Desiree Washington) so it hurt his appeal among families, but upped his appeal (or the circus -like atmosphere) within boxing - becuase it is a violent sport and we want to see animals in there (or at least enough of us do to propel his career - which has been over for 3 years). Boxing as a sport to a certain extent benefits from having people like Tyson around. But from Tyson's perspective, he was the most popular athlete within his profession when it happened - and if you examine his marketability outside the ring, his success (or lack thereof) in the ring following the conviction it hurt him badly - and that's in boxing - the most corrupted organized sport around - maybe next to horse racing. Jason Kidd had the wife abuse thing - what makes him a little different is that he was very squeaky clean before - and it hurt his marketablilty then and to this day, he still doesn't have the endorsement support that a player of his calibre could. He is still with his wife, she has supported him - and it still hurt him. Kobe has the worst of both worlds - a squeaky clean image coupled with accusations of a terrible crime, in a sport that won't benefit from his tarnished image. Not only will his endorsement partners start distancing themselves from him - I see the NBA doing it too (Kobe highlights go down in promo spots, on air mentions drop, etc.). He has already been irrevocably damaged.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:44 AM on August 01, 2003

[Jason Kidd had the wife abuse thing - what makes him a little different is that he was very squeaky clean before] Like hell he was, Weedy. Kidd came into the league with the rep that he'd slapped a girl at a party in college. He already had one child out of wedlock by the time he got to the league. And during his rookie year, his teammates had to drag him away from rowdy fans outside a downtown event. If he's squeaky clean, it's only because a PR team whitewashed his image after he left Dallas.

posted by Bob Jones at 02:24 PM on August 01, 2003

Bob Jones - I hadn't remembered that - which shows I guess how effective the whitewashing was. Child out of wedlock isn't that uncommon, or that important if it pre-dates his marriage (unless messy lawsuits are involved). All occurences though I don't think attract the same contempt as Kobe's alleged transgressions. You're right though, his behaviour negatively affected his marketability - despite his post-Dallas 're-branding'.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:39 PM on August 01, 2003

This is probably my first and last post on the Kobe story. I don't know anything, except that everything I'm being told right now is not being said in a quest for the truth, but rather to jumble it. How can any reasonable person come to a conclusion about what happened that night with that in mind? And given that I'm not charged with coming to a conclusion, I'll happily let others do that dirty work. I'm the guy Samsonov mentioned up there, telling him about the 'fixers'. He's got a good link. Read it. Any questions?

posted by 86 at 02:50 PM on August 01, 2003

Just to echo 86 (and waste more valuable work time) - alluvations to Kobe's guilt or innocence are totally misplaced at this time. I just think an interesting topic is: guilty or innocent, how badly has this already impacted his career?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:55 PM on August 01, 2003


posted by kloeprich at 03:00 PM on August 01, 2003

kloeprich, if I've said it once, I've said it a dozen times, alluvations is a perfectly cromulent word.

posted by vito90 at 03:32 PM on August 01, 2003

Cromulents! Activate the cloaking device!

posted by worldcup2002 at 03:44 PM on August 01, 2003

Alluvations embiggen us all.

posted by 86 at 03:47 PM on August 01, 2003

kobe threads are popular. kobe is the new soccer.

posted by corpse at 04:17 PM on August 01, 2003

It cracks me up that people are so passionate about either side before it even hits the courts. Kobe could be a dick, and she could be a nutcase. We will find out either way. The court of public opinion does not matter one bit. Just look at OJ. And just for the record. My father in law lives approximately 1/2 a mile from Lower Merion High. I actually took a picture of the place a few years back while visiting. This place is Beverly Hills East. There is a reason why Philly booed him. He is not one of theirs. His life was extremely comfortable growing up. Just another "fact" to sway public opinion.

posted by usfbull at 09:11 PM on August 01, 2003

Why is Kobe Bryant not "one of theirs" in Philly because his school was affluent? LeBron James' high school in Akron wasn't exactly destitute, but his fromness is not in question.

posted by rcade at 09:52 AM on August 02, 2003

Screw fromness, what about his cromulence?! Does it effect his street cred?

posted by lilnemo at 01:40 PM on August 02, 2003

Yes, questioning his street cred has long been his nemesis. And let me add that I don't care either way. I am whitebread suburbia with zero street cred. The most dangerous people I know have DUI's on their record.

posted by usfbull at 06:36 PM on August 02, 2003

LeBron's cromulence is not to be questioned. LeBron's young. Lebron's fun. Lebron Drinks Pepsi. I'd also like to give a shout-out to my fellow drunk, whitebread, suburbanite peeps.

posted by lilnemo at 06:45 PM on August 02, 2003

This woman ran out of his room, crying, met people downstairs, still hysterical, and immediately went to the rape center at the hospital where she had a rape test done on her. This does not smack of a woman who had some quick sex, was pissed about it for some reason, and decided to make the whole thing up. Womem who want to make the thing up generally don't appear immediatley hysterical after the event and immediately proceed to a place where evidence (against their case) can be procured and immediately tell the police she wants to press charges. Of course, no one knows for sure except the two of them, but it doesn't sound as fishy as other cases involving celebrities where the victim waits a week or two before coming forward. I'd be more inclined to believe her.

posted by aacheson at 12:55 PM on August 04, 2003

Wow, I need to do a little Q&A on my spelling. Sorry for all the typos in the above posting!

posted by aacheson at 12:56 PM on August 04, 2003

Oh sorry - I meant Alluviations - the sediment that is produced during erosion. Makes sense now, doesn't it?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:12 PM on August 05, 2003

Not really. But I'm thick as a rock. And completely unsedimental.

posted by kloeprich at 07:41 PM on August 05, 2003

I won't take that for granite.

posted by worldcup2002 at 11:48 AM on August 07, 2003

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