11/21/24
August 07, 2008
Favre Saga Ends with Trade to Jets: Brett Favre's month-long effort to get back to the Green Bay Packers ended with his trade late last night to the New York Jets.
I can see it now: the Jets trade Pennington, then Favre becomes disillusioned with the Jets when they go 2-5 and shuts himself down in October, leaving Kellen Clemens to flail the rest of the season.
posted by werty at 01:24 PM on August 07, 2008
As a Jet fan I haven't been this excited since Joe Willie put white shoes on. An over the hill Farve is far better than anything else the Jets could put on the field this year.
posted by MGDADDYO at 01:41 PM on August 07, 2008
It was a close call for the Bucs. We lucked out. The Jets won the prima donna sweepstakes.
posted by bperk at 01:54 PM on August 07, 2008
As a Jet fan I haven't been this excited since Joe Willie put white shoes on. An over the hill Farve is far better than anything else the Jets could put on the field this year.
careful what you wish for.
Is it just me, or is everyone simply ignoring the fact that Favre does not know the offense, terminology, nor timing of his recievers...has no time to learn it before the season starts...and is still expected to THRIVE in this situation? Has any other QB in history ever picked up an offense successfully in such a short time? Never mind that Favre is not exactly known for his film study (remember the antitodes about him not knowing what a nickel defense was for his first few years at Green Bay) and has a tendency to play carelessly with the ball (in a system and surrounding talent that won't be as forgiving as-was his offense in GB).
I just think Favre is doomed to be mediocre in this offense for at least this season. I've been wrong before (see my comments about Moss last year), but I really don't see a good outcome for him or the Jets in this regard.
posted by bdaddy at 02:06 PM on August 07, 2008
This sucks! I'm sad and pissed. Nobody in the packers organization can say we have a better chance of winning a superbowl with Rodgers rather than Favre. I need a drink.
posted by amatzek at 02:34 PM on August 07, 2008
The Week 2 game vs my Pats just got A LOT more interesting, as if there needed to be any more story lines.
Bdaddy, even though he doesn't have that much time to learn, he is still a different QB from his 1st few years in Green Bay. He is smart enough to pick up at least the basics, has 2 good receivers in Cotchery and Coles, and a run game that has to be respected With Jones and that upgraded line. I can see the Jets winning 9-10 games this year, maybe go 4-2 in the division(guess who I am hoping gives them their 2 losses) and making a solid push for the playoffs. Any way you slice it the Jets have nowhere to go but up after last year.
posted by crqri at 02:37 PM on August 07, 2008
As a Jet fan I haven't been this excited since Joe Willie put white shoes on. An over the hill Farve is far better than anything else the Jets could put on the field this year.
Me, too. As much as I think Pennington is a class act, after his numerous injuries including two rotater cuff surgeries he simply does not have an NFL caliber arm.
And Clemens could be good, but he's a work in progress. He can sit and learn from a master.
This may not make the Jets great. But it certainly makes them better.
posted by cjets at 02:50 PM on August 07, 2008
This definately makes the Jets better, wether Favre learns the offense or not. And maybe, just maybe, the Pats will only have 4 cake-walk division games this year.
posted by curlyelk at 03:06 PM on August 07, 2008
Those 4 cake walk games being the Jets & Miami
posted by thatch at 04:02 PM on August 07, 2008
And Clemens could be good, but he's a work in progress. He can sit and learn from a master.
Just ask Rodgers how willing Favre is to help his fellow QB's "learn from a master".
posted by bdaddy at 04:50 PM on August 07, 2008
What ever Favre brings to the Jets this year on the field will be an improvement. Also Clemens will learn a heck of a lot more from Favre than he could learn without him, and nobody has mentioned how great of team leader (by example) he is. He basically brought Green Bay just short of the superbowl last year with a pretty young team that was lousy one year earlier. This is big step for the Jets. Someone who can show them how to compete and win.
I hope he has a great year and Green Bay sucks. No matter what was promised to Rogers, if Favre who is one of the greatest of all time, unretired and wanted to play, after all he has done for that franchise, should have been given the opportunity to play. Its not like he was looking old last year, or fading in his skills. He had a great season and Rogers has done nothing to prove he deserved the job. Green Bay will regret this as Rogers will prove he is nothing more than a basic rookie with a lot to learn.
So to recap, the Packers just traded a hall of fame QB, who all of last year played at the top of his game, took them to within an overtime of the Superbowl, for a fourth round draft pick? Why? To either keep a promise to an unproven player who hasn't started an NFL game, or to prove a point. In either case it was a dumb move and I hope they pay dearly for it. What a crappy way to treat Favre after all he has produced. At least Rogers won't have to compete for his job like everybody else. Talk about pressure, this guy is doomed to fail.
posted by Atheist at 05:03 PM on August 07, 2008
Favre didn't want to play with the Packers because they hurt his feelings. I am sure the Packers got tired of his I think I'm going to retire routine after 3 or 4 years of it. And, Favre last year was good, but Favre the two or three years before last year was not. Who knows which Favre the Jets get?
posted by bperk at 05:30 PM on August 07, 2008
Nobody in the packers organization can say we have a better chance of winning a superbowl with Rodgers rather than Favre.
In an attempt to console the Packer faithful, I will use use the exact same argument that I've been using with Vikings fans who wanted Favre here instead of Jackson: Favre has zero chance of getting you to a Super Bowl these days (he'll get you close, but then in the big playoff game he'll try to win it by himself and either put up a stinker or make a really bad decision that costs you), so by default, almost any other option has a better chance of getting you there, even if Favre does practically guarantee you a playoff spot. I'm not saying that either Rodgers or Jackson is better than Favre -- that would be ridiculous -- only that we know what Favre's limits are, and we don't know that about either of these developing young QBs. They might sink, or they might swim; we just have to find out. The Packers may have handled the situation poorly, but Favre put them in an extremely awkward position, and ultimately, I believe the Packers did the right thing for both the present and the future, unless you're satisfied with just making the playoffs this year.
posted by TheQatarian at 05:30 PM on August 07, 2008
TheQatarian - I believe you argument is extremely flawed. First of all based on actual results only two quarterbacks in the league last year could claim a better season than Favre. Your assumption that he can't get you to Superbowl is also flawed as he has proven on more than one occaision he can do that and win it. How can you talk about his limits. He has proven his limit is a Superbowl Title. Not many QBs playing now can say that.
Just making the playoffs is not assured with any QB but my bet is it is more probable with Favre than with Rogers. It may be that just making the playoffs will look pretty good to the Packers about half way through Aaron Rogers first season.
posted by Atheist at 06:09 PM on August 07, 2008
"The Week 2 game vs my Pats just got A LOT more interesting, as if there needed to be any more story lines."
New wrinkle: this year, the Pats, feeling bad about what happened last year, grab the tapes of the Jets' offensive signals they didn't turn in to the league last year and give them to Favre on the Friday night before the Week 2 game.
That gives him a day and a half to learn his own offense the Belichick way.
Good thing for the Jets that Mangini comes from defense. The Jets D will be on the field a lot this coming year. Brett not only produces lots of picks, he also cranks up a lot of three-and-outs on an average day.
Being originally from the South, hate to say it, but if Brett's daddy was still alive, none of this nonsense would have happened in the first place. He wouldn't have stood for all the waffling and daytime drama. You're either going one way or the other, son, and you need to stick to what you tell 'em.
posted by beaverboard at 06:31 PM on August 07, 2008
neither team is going to the playoffs, with or without favre.
love the new format by the way.
posted by DudeDykstra at 08:20 PM on August 07, 2008
I have no sympathy for Farve here. He seems to be acting like a drama queen and a prima donna. "Oooh, the Packers hurt my feelings." Oh, boo-freakin'-hoo, I wish some one would hurt my feelings with a $20,000,000 contract offer to stay home and rake hay.
That being said though, I keep hearing an echo from the past. It seems to be coming from Chicago, but I can't quite make it out. Oh yeah, that's right,I can hear it now.
"Players don't win championships, organizations do."
And with that philosophy the Chicago Bulls decided to run off one of the greatest players ever and have sucked ever since. Did they do it to get better? Well, they had just won another in a long string of championships with Jordan, so that couldn't be it. So why do it?
They did it so they could prove they were smarter than everybody else. Winning had been easy with a legend on the team, but that was not good enough, cause the suits got no credit. And, seriously, what's more important; winning football games or proving you're the next Bill Polian?
Nostalgia's big these days. I hope it's big in Wisconsin, since they're about to relive the 70's.
posted by gradioc at 08:23 PM on August 07, 2008
As a Jets fan, I'm ready to stab myself in the face with a soldering iron. I don't like it one bit. The Jets have had enough disgruntled employees. I can't find a link but I'm sure that I read somewhere that Favre did not want to go to New York. I can only hope that come December, I will be singing a different tune.
posted by MrFrisby at 09:03 PM on August 07, 2008
Just know that the brass in Green Bay will be known throughout the history of the NFL as the guys that threw away a legend for the QB that never started a game. I heard it told by one anouncer that if it were Barry Sanders, the team would have jumped on it and named him the starter. With it being Favre, they told him he could "compete" for the starting job. Ya - right.
posted by Mickster at 09:51 PM on August 07, 2008
nobody has mentioned how great of team leader (by example) he is.
umm..nobody's mentioned it because he isn't. Need we point out a few examples
- Came out publicly after Rodgers was drafted and said he wouldn't give him any special tutelage. Said nobody gave it to him, so he doesn't owe it to anyone (real team leader there) - Bitched publicly that the GM didn't pickup the receiver he wanted - Bitched publicly that the team hired a coach he didn't want - Bitched publicly about a teammate that was holding out for more money
Favre has CONSISTENTLY shown he is not a "team" player. As bperk said, he's a prima-donna. Always has been. But the media loves him (Imagine if T.O. did one of the things mentioned above?)
He basically brought Green Bay just short of the superbowl last year with a pretty young team that was lousy one year earlier.
A team that was lousy the 2 years previous largely due to his 38/47 TD/INT ratio. He got better last year, due in large part to his dedication to late night film study (of which he reportedly told the coach he couldn't commit to do again this year...one of the reason the coach said he was getting "mixed signals")
posted by bdaddy at 10:25 PM on August 07, 2008
I used to have a lot of respect for the guy; but let's face it, he tainted his legacy by doing this.
It's kind of sad really.
posted by Tigginator at 11:01 PM on August 07, 2008
Like I said before, I couldn't be happier Farve is coming to the Jets. That being said, I think Farve is going to have second thoughts the first time he's stuck in traffic driving from Long Island where the Jets practice to the Meadowlands in NJ where the Jets play. To go from Green Bay to playing in NJ were 7 million people live on a postage stamp, it's going to be a tough nut to swallow.
posted by MGDADDYO at 01:19 AM on August 08, 2008
An over the hill Farve is far better than anything else the Jets could put on the field this year.
Just because Favre is 38 years old doesn't necessarily make him "over the hill" especially considering that he had one of his best seasons just last year. I understand that he's now with a new team, with new recievers and a new playbook but nevertheless, he hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play football. The man is an iconic figure that has proven time & time again that no matter what, he is still Brett Favre...the quarterback.
posted by BornIcon at 07:29 AM on August 08, 2008
It makes the Jets better and the Packers finally get shut of this drama/disaster. I imagine Favre will open up the Jets offense, he has approximately five times more arm then Pennington. Looking at the Jets wideouts I don't see much of a deep threat but it still has to help. If the Jets make the playoffs anything can happen, which we were just reminded of this year.
posted by visitor at 10:09 AM on August 08, 2008
That was me.
posted by tron7 at 10:10 AM on August 08, 2008
I still think the Jets got way better and the Packers got way worse in this deal. I don't see how anybody with any football knowledge cannot see what a steal the Jets got and what a mistake the Packers made. Even the Packers know that Favre has a lot of football in him. Jeez they did everything in their power to ensure they won't have to play against him, including offering him twice the money not to play, and not only trading him to another conference, but imposing incredibly stiff penalties on the Jets if Favre should be traded to a NFC North team. Think about that, if Favre should be a bust in New York and the Jets want to trade him, they have to pay the Packers something like 24 million dollars if Favre winds up in the NFC North. That speaks volumes about just how afraid of Favre the quarterback the Packers are. They know first hand what he can do if so inspired. The thing I hate as a football fan, is that I wish Favre wound up in Minnesota just so I could see him punish the Packers twice a year for this move.
You gotta love a company that doesn't want an employee any more, but is afraid they will go and work for the compettition.
On the other hand New York will be ruthless on Favre just as they were on Eli Manning up until the moment he won a Superbowl. That will be a different vibe for Brett. Someway though, I think he is up to it. He has proven himself to be pretty tough.
I love the way people like to claim he makes bad decisions and throws a lot of interceptions. IMO he is just a gutsy guy who is willing to take chances and put everything on the line. His record should speak for itself. I can't think of anybody I want running a team with 2 minutes left on the clock, trailing by 6 and 80 yards to go for a touchdown. Sure he has acted emotional, a little imature, and has worn his heart on his sleeve so to speak, but that is why he is such a great player. Very few superstar athletes these days play with the emotion, enthusiam and love of the game they did as kids. Favre is one who does, and because of it every other player on the Jets will play better more inspired football.
posted by Atheist at 10:49 AM on August 08, 2008
I don't see how anybody with any football knowledge cannot see what a steal the Jets got and what a mistake the Packers made.
Well, count me as one. And I have 15 years of PLAYING experience, including a few in college, and have several friends coaching at the high-school and college level...so I think I have at least SOME football knowledge. Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I have no understanding of the game, so that's a pretty lame deflection.
That speaks volumes about just how afraid of Favre the quarterback the Packers are. They know first hand what he can do if so inspired.
This had little to do with how AFRAID they were he'd come in and beat them. This had EVERYTHING to do with the guy, who was the face of the franchise for nearly 2 decades and who the fans still have a great affection for, facing your team twice a year for the next few years. This is a guy they will eventually have a statue for in front of their stadium, and you think they would WANT him under center of their most hated rivals? Doesn't matter how he would play under center (beating them would be worse for sure, but even walking out that tunnel would be disastrous)
Besides, few argue that the GB Front office doesn't believe he is better than Aaron Rogers today. I'm sure they certainly concede that, at least privately. They also know that a) He's only playing 1 or 2 more years b) they'd have to go through this same "will he/won't he" at the end of this season, the next, the following, etc. c) If he played even 1 more year in GB, they could kiss Rodgers (who they believe will be the face of their franchise for the next decade) goodbye
So while they might not be as good THIS year, they believe they will be in better shape for the next 10. You might not agree with that, but that is their logic.
posted by bdaddy at 11:14 AM on August 08, 2008
I love the way people like to claim he makes bad decisions and throws a lot of interceptions. IMO he is just a gutsy guy who is willing to take chances and put everything on the line. His record should speak for itself.
His career interception record speaks for itself.
posted by bperk at 12:26 PM on August 08, 2008
"so I think I have at least SOME football knowledge. Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I have no understanding of the game, so that's a pretty lame deflection."
OK, so you've made a pretty good argument as to why the Packers should let him go. And I don't necessarily disagree with it.
But let's see you answer the question from the other side of the equation. How is Favre not an upgrade over Pennington and Clemens? A huge upgrade?
posted by cjets at 12:39 PM on August 08, 2008
Certainly bdaddy you can see that the Jets stole Favre who can help them now, where as the Packers were just folding their cards and trying to minimize the damage. I actually agree with your assessment that the Packers are moving forward. But surely you see that the Jets made a great trade and the Packers regardless of where Favre went were going to be the loosers. They were in a no win situation.
As for the future of the Packers with Rogers, I am not so sure why they felt they could not let him go if he would not wait another year. Lets face it, the goal is a Superbowl title. Why would they trade being so close to one now with Favre, for the hope that this kid develops in a few years and gets possibly gets them there down the road. They could easily have tried to do it with Favre this year, keep thier iconic QB in Green Bay, and in the worse case scenario start their future with another untested, unproven, never started an NFL game QB prospect a year or two from now. In the best case scenario, by the time Rogers develops into a Superbowl QB the rest of this teams talent will have been traded, become free agents, gotten hurt or just aged enough to decline anyway. Its not like the situation in San Fran where they had a proven QB like Steve Young they needed to make happy. This Rogers has done nothing.
Even the the Manning brothers had to play a few years to get the experience under their belts to make a Superbowl. Unless Rogers is the next Tom Brady ( and the Packers are not the Pats) the Packers just traded away as good a chance for winning a Superbowl this year as any team can have at the beginning of a season, for the slim possibility of one a few years in the future, and for basically nothing. If Rogers gets hurt or proves not to be durable like Favre they will be done. Although I understand the Packer thinking, it just seems they have lost so much more than they gained by not just welcoming Favre back. The way I see it, as long as his performance on the field justifies it, he wants to play, his contract is valid, and there isn't a better player to replace him with, what good can come from this decision.
I also disagree that they were not afraid of him hurting them on the field. I think they know that Favre added to the Viking's general talent combined with Adrian Petersen, would be a death blow to their hopes in the division.
posted by Atheist at 12:45 PM on August 08, 2008
But let's see you answer the question from the other side of the equation. How is Favre not an upgrade over Pennington and Clemens? A huge upgrade?
Because they at least know the offense and have had a year (years in Chad's case) to work out timing, blitz checkoffs, etc. Talent aside (no argument there is light-years difference between Favre and them), how fast can Bret learn this offense and "own" it. 8 weeks is too long. They could be 0-4 at that time.
Not to mention, I personally do not feel that Bret's style of play (risk-taker, force into coverage, occasionally throw the ball up for grabs and count on his players to make plays) fits well with the Jet's offensive philosophy. They are not a "throw first" team. Green Bay could afford 2-3 INT's/game (as was Bret's norm, at least aside from last year) because he could make up with that with 4-5 TDs with that pass happy offense. The Jet's are a ball-control type team. If they get down early, do they have the offensive mindset, talent, and play calling to overcome that?
Like I said, I've been wrong before (see my comments about Moss last year), but I just see him being a "middling" type player there for 2008 (which how different is that from what they get out of Clemens?) If he sticks around for 2009, that might be a different story. But I guess we shall see.
posted by bdaddy at 03:54 PM on August 08, 2008
"The way I see it, as long as ...he wants to play"
That seems to be a big question, no? He said he didn't. Then he said he did. Then he said he didn't. Then he did. Then McCarthy asks him point blank if he would put in as much effort in film study, etc. and was reportedly given a wishy-washy answer. That is when McCarthy made the comment about the "train has left". If the man "sort-of" wants to play again, how do you throw Rodgers under the bus for that? Showing up for camp and being committed to football are 2 different things.
Nevermind there is no guarantee which Favre would show up. Look at Favre's performance in the past 3 seasons...do you feel comfortable saying he's going to replicate 2007? or revert to 2006 or 2005? Especially if he's telling your coach that he can't commit to spending as much "study" time (which the coach believes is a reason why 2007 was so much better than 2006 and 2005)?
Honestly, with that input the coach and GM may have felt that they had just as much variable as to what he would give you under center as to what Rodgers would give you.
posted by bdaddy at 04:08 PM on August 08, 2008
"but I just see him being a "middling" type player there for 2008"
Middling is an upgrade from what they've had before. The Jets situation at QB was a lesser of two evils situation.
Many Jets fans, including myself, are sad to see Chad go. He's a class act. He's the type of guy you'd want your sister to date.
And as a QB, he has a great football IQ, great at calling plays, great at play action. But he's got no frickin arm left! DBs just sit on his deep outs (Dead ducks) waiting to pick them off. They did it all season long last year until the Jets finally benched him. With Chad, at best, the Jets are 6-10, no chance of making the playoffs and no chance of beating playoff caliber teams.
Clemens may be good one day. But right now, he's skittish, throws alot of bad balls and has a lot to learn. On his first day of practice, he threw two picks. In fact, based on their training camp so far this year, Pennington was the favorite to win the starting position. I think there's alot of upside potential with Clemens but it will take another few years.
Favre is a superbowl champ and a three time MVP. I don't think he'll learn the whole playbook in one month but the coaches will work with him, simplifying the playbook for him and designing plays specifically for him.
The Jets haven't been a throw first team because their QB (Chad) couldn't throw. But Favre will have some strong receivers to throw to: Guys like Coles and Cotchery who go up and fight for every ball and give a team plenty of YAC as well.
I'm not a fan of Favre's whole off-season Hamlet routine ("to retire or not to retire") but for once the Jets caught a break. I think Favre will play like he's got something to prove and I think he's gonna mean an extra 3 to 4 wins for the Jets this year which probably means playoffs.
I've been wrong too. But I usually don't overestimate my teams because they break my heart too often.
posted by cjets at 04:16 PM on August 08, 2008
In my opinion, this doesn't do a whole lot for the Jets. Yes, it makes them a better football team. It also makes them a relevant part of the city again. (After the Giants won the Super bowl) What this doesn't do is anything for their future. They have a good young guy in Jerrico, and have some nice pieces. But even after the veteran help they've brought in, I don't feel like they can compete in the AFC East. More specifically, I don't see them competing with the Pats. If they make it to an 8-8 or 9-7 season, ill be truly impressed.
The more logical option would be developing Clemens. Let him play, let him grow. Keep Chad as your backup, let him tutor Clemens. When you have a young QB with potential, you must stick with him. Bring pieces in to build around him. That's how you build a winning team, a dynasty. Look at the Giants and Eli. Sure, he was a more flashy scenario, but it's the same deal. Very few teams win simply by bringing in Veteran's. The Jet's would be better suited retooling now, preparing themselves for their new stadium. Once Farve leaves, retires, un-retires, or sports his Wrangler ads full time, the Jets will be in a worse situation than they're currently in. By then Parcells will have his way with Miami, and winning will be even harder.
This move cannot be good for Clemens confidence. Yes, it's a smart move now, but I get the hunch it will come back to bite the Jets long-term health. (Like many of the moves the Jets make)
At any rate, im glad as can be the Farve saga is almost over. =D
posted by Kendall at 12:24 AM on August 13, 2008
As a Vikings' fan, I'm more than content with this arrangement. He's not on the Vikings, which I'm happy with, because even though I think he'd get them to the playoffs, he wouldn't get them to the Super Bowl. (Check his playoff stats for the last decade if you disagree.) He's not on the Packers or Bears, which means he's not standing in the way of the Vikings getting to the playoffs. He's not sitting at home, which means he can't come to the rescue the minute Rodgers gets hurt. And I'll be very interested to see how he gets treated by the New York media when he has a bad game.