11/21/24
November 14, 2006
Knight: I didn't do anything wrong, would do it again: Hall of Fame coach Bob Knight told ESPN.com on Tuesday afternoon that he was trying to raise Michael Prince's confidence when he flipped his chin up during Texas Tech's game with Gardner-Webb Monday night in Lubbock.
posted by lex2000 to basketball at 05:45 PM - 67 comments
This has been WAY overblown by the media. Had this involved another coach and not Knight, this would have been little more than a footnote at the rear of the sports section, if mentioned at all. I'm no Bobby Knight apologist by any means but this is BS.
posted by willthrill72 at 06:05 PM on November 14, 2006
And here's me the last few hours proud that no Spo-fite took the bait and posted this drivel.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 06:08 PM on November 14, 2006
Bobby Knight is a rather polarizing figure. This just might spark an interesting discourse, Texan.
posted by willthrill72 at 06:14 PM on November 14, 2006
A lot of factors are involved here. If this were another coach (NCAA level), would it be no big deal? If a player did this to a coach, would he be off the team? If the player would have reacted instinctively and raised his hands or pushed Knight, would he have been in trouble? If Knight would have done this to an official (to get his attention) would it be no big deal? In the NBA, Vince Carter would have been ejected and fined if he did this, regardless of whether or not he was just playing. In the NFL, If T.O. had done this to a teammate or a coach (to get his attention) some people would be calling for a suspension. I guess the point is, certain things are allowed on certain levels. Some people take intent into consideration, and some people do not.
posted by Bishop at 06:38 PM on November 14, 2006
Anybody who thinks this incident is a big deal ever play organized team sports? I've seen pee-wee hockey and football coaches get more physical than that.
posted by tahoemoj at 07:00 PM on November 14, 2006
A tempest in a teapot. Both the student athlete and his mother(who was courtside) maintain Knight did nothing wrong. Willthrill72 appears absolutely correct.
posted by sickleguy at 07:21 PM on November 14, 2006
I agree the situation is BS. However, Texan, it is a subject worthy of conversation. Sorry to shatter your few hours of pride about an internet forum. If it was any other coach this certainly wouldn't have mattered. I'm glad the player and his parents have been so forthright about this "situation".
posted by lex2000 at 07:34 PM on November 14, 2006
Boy I deserved a few smacks like that when I played on the line in High School damn what an ass why do fans and players still love this asshole? I guess were all supposed to just lie back and enjoy it
posted by luther70 at 07:40 PM on November 14, 2006
Woody Hayes, no, but am I glad he's not at Kansas? YES!.Don't know what that means, but that's how I feel.
posted by hawkguy at 07:42 PM on November 14, 2006
Who's to say that the Prince, fearful that he'd be thrown off the team or have is scholarship revoked, didn't kowtow to Knight, who has certainly bullied people of bigger stature in the past? Me, I'd like to see someone give Knight what he has deserved for quite awhile, and I'm not talking about a coaching award.
posted by ajaffe at 08:03 PM on November 14, 2006
Knight is not my favorite person, and he's done plenty of questionable things that were newsworthy. Having said that, WTF!?! Knight says it was innocent. The AD says it was innocent. Princes' parents say it was innocent. Prince HIMSELF says it was innocent. WHOA! Stop the presses! What the hell is next, stories about him giving a dirty look?
posted by ctal1999 at 08:12 PM on November 14, 2006
It was nothing but a "look-at-yo-daddy" pat on the chin and I certainly can't see any reason to piss away so much time on it, not even involving Bobby Knight, yet he is likely the most newsworthy person in basketball. I just wish people in the media would let him rest and coach, teach and direct the kids. They love him, the parents love him, the school loves him. His kids graduate! That is of utmost importance to Bobby. I am a big fan. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I'm a teasipper, too.
posted by Bud Lang at 08:29 PM on November 14, 2006
Knight said Prince's parents told Knight that they have had problems with Michael not looking people in the eye./i> That's the only part I find at all disturbing about this. Good god, but college kids nowadays are a bunch of babies. The kid is 18, right? Why are mommy and daddy involved? Why does anyone feel they need to be called?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:30 PM on November 14, 2006
That's the only part I find at all disturbing about this. Good god, but college kids nowadays are a bunch of babies. The kid is 18, right? Why are mommy and daddy involved? Why does anyone feel they need to be called? My guess is the A.D. called anticipating the news frenzy. The Kid seemed to stick up for Knight in the article, and all the people involved considered it a non-incident. College kids today may or may not be a bunch of babies. But since I've got three still in school I can tell you one thing. Mommy and Daddy are involved whether they want to be or not. My youngest is playing softball and if the coach did anything like that, my daughter would never tell me. But her coach isn't Bobby Knight either. That's why we're talking B.S. about this B.S.
posted by Fillyfan711 at 09:22 PM on November 14, 2006
The kid's mom was at the game and a few feet away from where the incident took place. Boy I deserved a few smacks like that when I played on the line in High School damn what an ass why do fans and players still love this asshole? I guess were all supposed to just lie back and enjoy it Umm, what?
posted by Jeffwa at 09:30 PM on November 14, 2006
And the bitch of it is , who's the first person he'll thank after signing his NBA contract? His MOM!
posted by volfire at 09:41 PM on November 14, 2006
Personally, I think the Knight should be fired and never allowed to coach a college basketball team again. Of course, I'm a Carolina fan who doesn't want to see him pass Dean on the all time win list. Is it a big deal, honestly? No, of course, not. There are better ways for him to get a players attention, but it wasn't that bad. On the other hand, though, Knight has a problem with being physically violent towards players and maybe we should be stricter with him than with other coaches.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:28 PM on November 14, 2006
How many swp's (smacked while playing) does Knight get? I don't care how many posters feel improperly weened, it is not appropriate to strike another human being period! Especially if your name is Bobby Knight. How many passes does this coach get before he is treated like a mere mortal? I find these weak-kneed apologist disgusting at best. He should be suspended at a minimum and yes I played sports, football and I ran track.
posted by donrico at 10:37 PM on November 14, 2006
If it were any other coach, this is a non-issue. Only because of Coach Knights past does this make every sports show this site of the moon. Quit beating the dead horse and move on.
posted by dbt302 at 10:46 PM on November 14, 2006
Prince was quoted in Tuesday's Lubbock Avalanche-Journal as saying, "He was trying to teach me and I had my head down, so he raised my chin up. He was telling me to go out there and don't be afraid to make mistakes. He said I was being too hard on myself." Sounds like good, sound advice from a good coach that is not liked by the media, and a lot of fans well. Coach Knight did nothing wrong here, this is a non issue. Damn you Bobby Knight for trying to raise that kids self esteem.
posted by jojomfd1 at 11:44 PM on November 14, 2006
If it were any other coach, this is a non-issue. Unless of course the kid didn't want to be touched in anyway by his coach in frustration. While i agree with the point that this probably wasn't the biggest deal in the world (not even in Knight's coaching career), i find it a little disturbing that most posters think that flipping someone's chin is always okay, b/c it isn't. Some people want to play hard and compete, but don't want to be physically told to "look at your daddy in the eye." Screw that. Personally, i think that Knight is fortunate that this kid didn't mind being physically reprimanded for poor play. To each his own. That being said, being a coach, whether good or bad, doesn't automatically give him/her the right to touch a player in any way if the player doesn't want to; that's just basic human rights. Before everyone craps on me for being a sissy boy let me finish with this: any kid does bear some indirect responsibility for Knight's behavior in the sense that he knew what he was getting into when he went to Indiana/Texas Tech. What Knight does is usually ridiculous, the kid should have known that that was possible. Regardless though, if the player doesn't want that, don't let him on the team or respect that. Hopefully Knight has the integrity to tell recruits about his "hands-on" coaching style. Damn you Bobby Knight for trying to raise that kids self esteem. The question isn't always motive; it is what a player accepts as proper "self-esteem" improvement.
posted by brainofdtrain at 12:10 AM on November 15, 2006
Some people want to play hard and compete, but don't want to be physically told to "look at your daddy in the eye." Screw that. Show me in the article where Bobby Knight said that. Personally, i think that Knight is fortunate that this kid didn't mind being physically reprimanded for poor play. He wasn't being reprimanded. Did you read the article or just the posts that were in here? Nothing in that article ever brought up Prince being reprimanded. The question isn't always motive; it is what a player accepts as proper "self-esteem" improvement. Prince obvioulsy accepted Coach Knights method on that day. Since this was his quote to the reporter covering the story: Prince was quoted in Tuesday's Lubbock Avalanche-Journal as saying, "He was trying to teach me and I had my head down, so he raised my chin up. He was telling me to go out there and don't be afraid to make mistakes. He said I was being too hard on myself." Doesn't sound like a reprimand to me, sounds like some encouraging words to a player that was a little unsure of himself after making a mistake on the court. Knight wanted to see it in his eyes if he had it in him to pull out of it or not. Oh wait, isn't that part of his job? As I said before Non- Issue!
posted by jojomfd1 at 12:39 AM on November 15, 2006
Knight's record speaks for itself, and his kids all love him. All he expects is your best, on the court and in the classroom. I'm glad he got run off at Indiana and even gladder Gerald Myers is his pal.
posted by mjkredliner at 01:25 AM on November 15, 2006
jojo doesn't understand paraphrasing obviously. Secondly, if I play for you and you pull me and then upchuck me on the chin then sit me you are reprimanding me! I guess a frightened college age kid who didn't even have his mothers backing might cover for his physically abusive coach. Lastly, jojo also has a case of mind readingitis, "Knight wanted to see it in his eyes if he had it in him to pull out of it or not". Sounds like a clear case of mind-reading of B. Knight to me. I believe I counted at least six lip suction marks on B. Knights behind from jojo!
posted by donrico at 01:54 AM on November 15, 2006
jojo, you have missed my point(s): let me see if i can clarify for you. 1. "Look at your daddy in the eye." I was making that reference based on a similar comment above. I was speaking against a prevailing attitude we have in sports today, which is that players respond to in your face confrontation, whether it be a positive comment "don't be afraid to make a mistake," or a negative comment, like "what the *&^% were you thinking." Some don't. In fact, that often makes things worse for a player. Which brings me to the whole point of my original post: It is not always okay to do this, regardless of a coach's intentions, b/c some players find it disrespctful and downright wrong. I was trying to speak out against what seemed to be a major opinion in this forum that this was okay and a non-issue. My only point here was to say that even though it deemed appropriate by this player, it isn't always (and incidentally hasn't always been for Knight's) players. All i am trying to communicate is that while this time it wasn't a big issue (i agree with you), it has been before and will be again. Situations like these are rarely if ever so black and white as this one, and i am a bit shocked to get the impression that many (not all) here think that they are. I hope i make more sense to you now. 2. "Reprimand": an act or expression of criticism and censure (emphasis mine). Yes i am sure that the exact word reprimand wasn't used, but how does that prove that the kid wasn't "criticized" for not having confidence? If there wasn't anything to criticze or "reprimand" the player for, then why encourage him? I think that you're allowing the usual negative association with the word trip you up in regards to what i'm saying. Hopefully you'll see that i am in agreement with you about Knight's intentions (for the record, i am don't think he meant any harm in his words or actions, but as i hope you see now, that is not always the point.) 3. Knight wanted to see it in his eyes if he had it in him to pull out of it or not. Oh wait, isn't that part of his job? Yes and no. Yes, his job is to encourage his players, demand excellence, and to put the best team on the floor to win. However, i have never heard of a "chin-flipping" section of a coach's job description. He is to produce men and a winning club within certain boundaries that are set by his players. Obviously this kid doesn't have a problem with Knight's approach, and that is great. Like i said before: to each his own. All i was noting was that these issues aren't always as simple as this one. Ask some of Knight's other players: maybe they will disagree with some who have suggested that this is always a non-issue.
posted by brainofdtrain at 02:21 AM on November 15, 2006
I agree that this isn't a major deal, but for different reasons. Knight's become little more than a joke, and any school that hires him deserves what they get. Any kid that decides to play for him also deserves what he gets. That said, I love the "If it were any other coach..." line. Knight made his living off being an ass. So when he's an ass it will be a story. If he doesn't like that than he shouldn't have made his living by being an ass. Likely, If it were any other coach it would be a huge story.
posted by SummersEve at 05:30 AM on November 15, 2006
I believe I counted at least six lip suction marks on B. Knights behind from jojo! What are you doing lookin' at Knight's ass? Knight's become little more than a joke Yep, he has completely forgotten how to coach, ask all his peers... If you have never had a coach like Bob I sorta feel sorry for you, and if you did and couldn't handle it, then you probably weren't any good anyway.
posted by mjkredliner at 07:13 AM on November 15, 2006
If you needed a coach like Knight I feel sorry for you.
posted by SummersEve at 07:17 AM on November 15, 2006
The players that hate Bobby Knight and his methods are few and hard to find, Larry Bird even transfered to Indiana State to escape. The bottom line is he runs his team with strict discipline, something that is missing from most organized sports where egos seem to rule supreme. Knight is going to have the most wins in NCAA history, he graduates OVER 90% of his players AND wins, he is a throw back to th 70's perhaps, but not a joke.
posted by SAVANX at 07:17 AM on November 15, 2006
If you have never had a coach like Bob I sorta feel sorry for you Seriously, what is amateur athletics without a coach waving poop in your face to motivate you?
posted by Venicemenace at 07:31 AM on November 15, 2006
Ha! If you were so offended by the "poop" that you missed his point, well, tough "poop".
posted by mjkredliner at 07:37 AM on November 15, 2006
I guess it is tough for people to dome the concept of "the team played badly" without actually seeing some poop that represents their play. Fair enough.
posted by Venicemenace at 07:44 AM on November 15, 2006
I'm gettin' out after this, but Venice, Bob meant the team played liked shit, and not mincing words is one of the things some of us like about him.
posted by mjkredliner at 07:49 AM on November 15, 2006
Granted, on the Knight-assholery scale, this was prety low, but I'd really be happy to see the day when he picks the wrong kid, or university administrator, or cop, or anyone, on whom to use his "teaching methods."
posted by ajaffe at 07:54 AM on November 15, 2006
For the school Bobby Knight brings wins. Wins attract a heightened quality of recruits. Better recruits translates into even more wins and earns more money. The bottom line has been the most important thing to schools when it come to college sports for quite some time. Once Knight becomes a liability it'll be Indiana all over again. If the bottom line was about the character development of the players, Knight would be fired and would never coach again unless he admits his wrongdoing and redeems himself. That would have happened a long time ago. In and of itself the chin slap was no big deal. But, Bobby Knight doesn't care about rules and authority. He knows why he is the coach. He's there to win PERIOD. And, he is good at it. Perhaps, one of the greatest "coaches" ever if the criteria is simply basketball and winning. There's more to life than winning though.
posted by ChiefsSuperFan at 09:00 AM on November 15, 2006
There's more to life than winning though. Hey ChiefsSuperFan, Your opinion is solely based on what the media has fed you. Knight puts education FIRST on his teams, if you don't go to class, you don't play. He is about changing these players into men, and holds them accountable. I am not defending the history of his actions, he is a short fuse ass, but his motivation has never been wins, do more homework.
posted by SAVANX at 09:10 AM on November 15, 2006
If you're right Savanx then I stand corrected. Unfortunately his "short fuse" (which I think is too nice a way to put it) demonstrates a poor example for the collegians under him. His conduct doesn't work in the real world.
posted by ChiefsSuperFan at 09:20 AM on November 15, 2006
and not mincing words is one of the things some of us like about him Yeah, but there is a huge difference between saying "the team played like shit!" (not mincing words) and waving around a shit-covered bunch of TP. I don't think the chin-tap is worth making a federal case about. I'm just saying that you don't *need* a guy like Knight to develop as an athlete and as a man. Maybe some people do, but a lot of others don't. He brings a lot to the table in terms of leadership, but his outbursts and over-the-line antics also indicate a lack of maturity, in my opinion. John Wooden didn't need to flip out to get through to his players.
posted by Venicemenace at 09:24 AM on November 15, 2006
I find all the Knight-bashing comical. Just viewing the incident should have made folks realize this was a non-issue. The comments made by the school, parents, and player should have absolutely made the story instantly disappear. But, nope ... instead, we've got people calling one of the most postively influential people of basketball history calling him "little more than a joke" (SummersEve - this might be the first time I've ever disagreed with any of your posts, but we're far apart on this one). And comments like "If the bottom line was about the character development of the players, Knight would be fired and would never coach again" ... it might help if folks did a little boning up about Knight and what he's meant to the players and programs with which he's been involved. No doubt Texas Tech was hoping for an increase in wins and visbility by hiring Knight, but I would bet a lot of money that they also factored in wanting to strengthen the character development of its students athletes when they hired him. (on preview, I'm in line with Savanx) There's more to life than winning though. Although you didn't intend it this way - you couldn't have made stronger pro-Knight argument than this.
posted by littleLebowski at 09:30 AM on November 15, 2006
Bobby knight is a dam good coach. anyone that signed on at Tex Tech knew when they got there what they were in for and probably wanted the chance to play for a coach like that. HE PRODUCES and he does it his way. He wins games and Graduates one of the highest percetages of his players in the NCAA. He is the Bill Parcelles of his sport. He DEMANDS your best. That being said, I am a football coach and see things go one at varsity and even 9th grade practices and games that would be considered worse than what happened in that game. I also understand wanting to see your players eyes. You can look a player in the eyes and tell when he is beat mentally. You can see fear, hesitation and belief in a players eyes. someone who just committed two quick fouls may go "in the tank" when pulled and you can tell by looking in a players eyes if he is beat or fired up and wants another shot. Everyone should have a coach or at least a person in their lives like Coach Knight. Someone like that allows you to realize what type of person you really are. Has he been out of line before? maybe, but i bet every player he has ever had learned a great deal form the man. He is a leader and he shapes men into something more. HERE"S TO YOU COACH KNIGHT
posted by Debo270 at 09:31 AM on November 15, 2006
littleLebowski - You're right. I went overboard saying he's a joke. I think he's become a bit of a caricature of himself, and I would never treat my kids like he treats kids, but to each his own. I'll have what Jon Saraceno's having.
posted by SummersEve at 09:44 AM on November 15, 2006
I don't like Bobby Knights personal style, and I would not want to hang with him for very long. But, one thing you can say, the man cares about his kids, and as the parent of a college athlete and as someone that is involved at a certain level with college baseball and knowing many college coaches, to have a coach that truly cares about your kid is sort of unusual. Not unheard of by any means, but you could do a lot worse than Bob Knight as a coach for your student athlete regardless of his personality, style, politics, or whatever. Sometimes a little tough love is in order for kids to excel, and that is why they go play for him, because they want to excel. He takes it a little far sometimes, and he isn't perfect, but what situation is ALL good?
posted by sfts2 at 10:56 AM on November 15, 2006
"I flipped his chin up and told him to look me right in the eye so he could do the job we want. I said, 'Can you?' And he said 'Yes,' and I said, 'OK, sit down and let's go.' If that's an issue then I'm living in the wrong country," Knight said. Well donrico what else was he looking into his eyes for then?
posted by jojomfd1 at 11:12 AM on November 15, 2006
We'll just disagree on this one, SummersEve. I wouldn't handle my own kids the way he handles his players, so I can somewhat see where you're coming from. But, I would absolutely have my kid play for him. If there's no reason for discipline or stern "life lessons", he still gets the benefit of a great coach and strong leader. But, as well as I hope I raise my kids, I expect there will be times where they step out of line (especially when they're out of my control - as kids are sometimes naturally known to do). In that case, whether it be to raise self-esteem or to instill an extra sense of discipline from a different perspective than I can provide as a parent, then I'm OK with that. He certainly doesn't have a blank check to abuse my kid, but his tactics, particularly this one are within the realm of what I'd allow.
posted by littleLebowski at 11:12 AM on November 15, 2006
If you have never had a coach like Bob I sorta feel sorry for you, and if you did and couldn't handle it, then you probably weren't any good anyway. I'll 2nd that! The man cares and his players graduate. What more could you ask for? He has a short fuse, but we already knew that. Has he ever hurt a player? No. If any other coach in the Nation tried that with one of his players, he would probably get knocked out. Knight demands respect and he gets it.
posted by yay-yo at 12:13 PM on November 15, 2006
ya! ya! yay yo. You said it!!
posted by Debo270 at 01:16 PM on November 15, 2006
There's a little duality going on here that I think would make Descarte proud. On one hand you have an undeniably successful coach who knows the game as well as anyone, and graduates players better than almost anyone - as you pro-Knight people have so amiably pointed-out. On the other you have a guy who is a poster boy for bullying. Knight is a classic bully. Some of you choose to see that as being more important than the numbers, while some of you seem to adopt the ends justifying the means. For my money - the ends almost never justify the means. Knight, while being an example of a specific success, is also exemplary for being a very specific failure: Getting fired despite being the most successful coach in Indiana history, for behaviour that deserves no respect at all.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:24 PM on November 15, 2006
Duality? How about a third possibility: that the guy may well fit the definition of a bully, but that this wasn't bullying. It doesn't sound like it to me, and that being the case, I don't see where you're justified in getting in an uproar. If you've got a problem with his past behavior, you never should have given him a job in the first place; if you were okay with it and went ahead, then don't be taking him out back behind the barn now for stuff he did then.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:39 PM on November 15, 2006
CASE SOLVED! When the Kid and The Parents say there is nothing wrong with it why Get on Knights Case? The Media makes the sitution alot worse.
posted by yachts360 at 02:46 PM on November 15, 2006
Knight makes you step up your game. The players know what they are getting into when they play on Knights Court. They had a choice, go to another school if you don't like him! Deal with It!
posted by yachts360 at 02:48 PM on November 15, 2006
Ideally, every coach in the country would be able to adapt his or her approach to every player according to the needs and desires of the individual (and what the players WANTS would also produce the most desirable outcome). In reality, coaches have their own styles and approaches and they vary from easy going to the strictest of task masters. You can point to successes in any of the categories, but by the time a coach reaches the heights of success, every one of the recruits know what they're getting into before they ever sign that letter of intent. As coaches go, Bobby Knight is an Alpha drill sergeant, and everyone knows it. If you're a "Don't touch me, just talk nice and persuade me" type of player, you don't agree to play for that man. On the other hand, if you want a coach who will ride you until he's convinced that he's getting your very best, he's your guy. It's common sense, and it sounds like Prince was treated exactly as he expected to be. Knight is a tough, crusty, grumpy SOB. He's not cuddly and loveable. He is, however, a great coach. His passions have gotten the better of him in the past, but that isn't the case here. It's much ado about nothing.
posted by ctal1999 at 03:06 PM on November 15, 2006
Give the guy a break. As an OSU fan I got a bellyfull of him during his time at Indiana and saw some really stupid behavior. Throwing chairs...etc.... The man was just coaching trying to get a players attention, just ask the player! The media should devote more attn to OSU/mich football, I have seen so little in the news about it as of late!
posted by brownindian at 04:18 PM on November 15, 2006
With Knight's history of "anger management issues" its no surprise that this gesture has been viewed in a more violent light than the article plays it off to be. I believe that Knight probably does have the best interests of the player's at heart...its too much work to be involved in college athletics if you are not doing it for the sport or the players...but I think there are more effective ways to communicate with your team. You can demand respect without ever laying a hand on players or by verbally berrating them.
posted by Jimbloomberg at 06:08 PM on November 15, 2006
Jimbloomberg, not everyone can be a Dr. Phil or a Tony Robbins, motivating those around them through "feelgoodism" and the power of positive thinking. Knight's style is to get excellence through discipline and a refusal to accept substandard effort. It works well for him, and every one of his players know what his program is all about. They choose to play for him and accept his approach willingly. Could another coach have reached Prince in a gentler fashion? Probably. Would it be as effective? Maybe. Could Knight pull off the same approach? No. Plain and simple. It's not in his nature. That doesn't mean that he shouldn't coach, or that he should scrap methods that have worked for years just because they're not always pleasant. Earlier, I compared Knight to a drill instructor. If Prince had actually joined the military instead of the basketball team, a similar incident with a DI wouldn't have made anyone bat an eyelash. Knight runs a tough, disciplined program, and his players expect it. They choose to be there and to participate, knowing full well that they'll get chewed on occasionally. Apparently, they feel that the discipline and knowledge that they'll get from the program is worth a little unpleasantness. According to all accounts, nobody who was actually involved in the incident had any problem with it. Would it be nice if he was more like Coach K or Jimmy V? Yeah, but he's not. His way works, for him, his shool, and his players. We don't have to like the guy, and I don't, but he's being sniped at for his reputation, not for what he did this time. I guess that just doesn't sit well with me.
posted by ctal1999 at 07:10 PM on November 15, 2006
We'll just have to wait for the next time he acts like the type-A jerk he's always been, which should be the next time he encounters a university administrator or someone who doesn't use the honorific before his name...
posted by ajaffe at 07:44 AM on November 16, 2006
In truth, I really don't see very much outrage about the Prince incident on this thread. I'm sure some of the usual suspects in the media are all over this, but what do you expect? People enjoy these familiar themes; just witness the number of posts on these Bobby Knight, TO, "Political Correctness" threads. Outnumbering the "Knight is a jerk" comments here are those that suggest that Knight's methods are superior to those of other coaches, whose style ctal describes as "Dr. Phil or a Tony Robbins, motivating those around them through "feelgoodism" and the power of positive thinking". Or those that claim that people who haven't had Knight-esque coaches are somehow disadvantaged by missing out on this experience. That players who do better when they aren't being screamed at or physically jarred to attention are soft. Those statements, rather than this incident, are what moves me to comment. I think these assertions make a fundamental error - they confuse Knight's weaknesses for his strengths. His strengths are basketball knowledge, a love of the game, investment in and care for his players, a demand for high standards, and an unwavering commitment to academics. His weaknesses are the screaming and hysterics. The first set of attributes make him a great coach, the second set have earned him an odious reputation. Obviously, Knight is who he is, but to me, he would be a better coach if he could lay off the outbursts.
posted by Venicemenace at 07:51 AM on November 16, 2006
Just out of curiosity, how many times did Dean Smith have to smack a kid in the face, or choke one on the practice court, or show his ass in an airplane window as he was leaving a tournament? How many times has Mike Krzyzewski cursed at reporters in a news conference? How about Roy Williams and his infamous chair-throwing incident, or the time he pounded his shoe on the scorers' table, screaming obscenities at the game officials the whole time? Didn't those coaches win National Championships, too, without all the drama queen crap? Face it: Knight is an asshole, and always will be, because he's allowed to be by people just like the ones in this thread, who enable his boorish behavior because he's won three NCAA championships, the last of which was nearly twenty years ago. I understand the propensity to ignore the stupid stuff your coach and/or players do, because they're your boys, but damn, is there no limit?
posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:28 AM on November 16, 2006
Well put, and nice links TBH. Knight's an asshole. Aways has been, always will be.
posted by louisville_slugger at 09:50 AM on November 16, 2006
When the Kid and The Parents say there is nothing wrong with it why Get on Knights Case? The Media makes the sitution alot worse. Yes, the media is at fault here. Also, what's your opinion on domestic violence incidents when the spouse drops the charges? Case closed?
posted by yerfatma at 10:24 AM on November 16, 2006
(on preview - thanks for the chuckle provided by comparing this to domestic violence) It still amuses me that: - folks refuse to grasp and/or accept that different coaches have different styles (salesman have different ways of selling, doctors have different bedside manners, ...). If the parties involved (parents, student athletes, college administrators, ...) didn't find benefit to the body of work that Knight brings to the table, he would've been forced to find another occupation long ago - anyone (except for his current employer) should demand (and expect him to comply) that he coach and act the want you want him to. Knight's an asshole. Aways has been, always will be. Then, don't root for his team(s), don't send your kid to play for him, and don't send him a Christmas card.
posted by littleLebowski at 10:40 AM on November 16, 2006
"when my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want that they should bury me upside down so my critics can kiss my ass." Best Bob Knight quote ever. Some others.
posted by mjkredliner at 10:50 AM on November 16, 2006
Then, don't root for his team(s), don't send your kid to play for him, and don't send him a Christmas card. Thanks for the advise, I was just filling out the card too.
posted by louisville_slugger at 11:21 AM on November 16, 2006
Best Bob Knight quote ever. Yeah, but terrible meter. Don't quit your day job, Bob.
posted by Venicemenace at 11:59 AM on November 16, 2006
Venice, I wasn't putting down coaches who have a gentler approach than Knight when I compared them to Tony Robbins. Robbins has become filthy rich by motivating people, generally by positive reinforcement. His system works for a lot of people. Others don't respond to it at all. Still others are somewhere in the middle, and need an occasional kick in the pants to go along with the pats on the head. I don't think there's a coach out there that doesn't use some of both. Some use more carrot, others more stick. Kids who need structure and discipline tend to benefit from the more stick system. Without a doubt, that's what Knight provides, but there is a place for it and once the kids in his program start to see it paying dividends, they generally end up on board 100%.
posted by ctal1999 at 03:38 PM on November 16, 2006
I have no problem with stressing the stick over the carrot, but I prefer the model provided by Knight's good buddy, Bill Parcells. I'm sure you didn't mean to dis coaches who stress positive reinforcement, but I don't think any college basketball coach would take it as a compliment if you compared his style to Dr. Phil or Tony Robbins.
posted by Venicemenace at 06:47 AM on November 17, 2006
You're right about that VM. I probably took that reference a little too far, especially with the DR. Phil portion.
posted by ctal1999 at 09:06 PM on November 17, 2006
I couldn't believe this hadn't been posted yet, but then I thought, maybe others don't think this is that big of a deal either?