11/23/24
February 15, 2006
1836 Has Been 86'ed: The owners of Houston's Major League Soccer franchise learned something unexpected when they chose the name 1836 to honor soccer tradition and a historic year in Texas, which included the city's founding and Texas independence: Some people think the wrong side won that war. "For Mexicans, Texas secession started the process of American conquest culminating in the invasion of Mexico in 1846 and the loss of almost half its territory," writes Raul Ramos.
Your logic is flawless.
posted by chris2sy at 01:19 PM on February 15, 2006
So the by this logic the Philadelphia 76ers offend the English?
posted by tron7 at 01:38 PM on February 15, 2006
but if you weren't living in that time frame shutup What an innovative way of dealing with history! Pretty much makes it impossible to talk about anything before WW II doesn't it?
posted by Bury Bonds at 01:45 PM on February 15, 2006
I thought 1836 was a good name, but as soon as it became evident that it was a sore spot for some Hispanics in the area, including newspaper columnists and other influential leaders, they were right to rethink the name. The team needs to be fully embraced by soccer-crazed Hispanic fans to be successful.
posted by rcade at 01:54 PM on February 15, 2006
Before Kevntex2008 (I'm guessing that's the year you graduate high school, judging solely by the maturity of your viewpoint), jumped in I was wondering just how offended the Latino population would be by this. How relevant is it to the Houston Latino community? Are they, like the majority of Americans today, largely ignorant of history that predates MTV, or do they actually take a more active role in their heritage as it reflects the history between Mexico, Texas, and to a larger extent, America? By the way kid, it's "their," not "there." At least in this usage instance. That might make the difference between you getting a D instead of an F on your next grammar exam. You can thank me later...but you probably won't.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 01:57 PM on February 15, 2006
People like Kevntex2008 really bring shame to REAL TEXANS like me. MY family owned land when it was stilled called "tejas" ( my family has roots going back late 1600's in the region) Hopefully you'll go out today find a nice long rope and relieve us from you fouling the earth with any offspring!!
posted by Grrrlacher at 01:59 PM on February 15, 2006
(I'm ignoring the troll.) To be honest, I hadn't thought about the hispanic angle either. They were right to pull the name, and I have no doubt they'll find something that will appeal to everyone in the area.
posted by chicobangs at 02:08 PM on February 15, 2006
Rcade, excellent topic and very good points. I couldn't help but be turned off by Mr. Ramos' editorial, however, as he churned towards the finish: "Perhaps this is retribution for the vocal support the Mexican national team receives when it comes to town...A more sinister reading suggests the team wants Latino aficionados, but only on their terms. Those terms are leaving your heritage, identity and family at the door...the team needs to make extra efforts to appear open to Latino Houstonians....Only then, and by removing Sam Houston from the logo, will the team come to symbolize the promise of a global capital." The viral hash of conspiracy theory and ancient cultural gripe here is a bit much for me. Does Mr. Ramos truly believe the team name is meant to be a deliberate "F you" to the Latino community? If Sam Houston is so offensive to Mexican-Americans, shouldn't the name of the city be changed (a la Stalingrad)?! If Texans of Mexican ancestry have no problem calling a city named after their ancient enemy home, I don't know why they would en masse refuse to support the MLS team referencing him in their logo. The fact is, as has been demonstrated by the lackluster support of Chivas USA here in Los Angeles, many Mexican-American fans already support their favorite soccer teams - teams that play in Mexico - and don't much care about MLS anyway.
posted by Venicemenace at 02:16 PM on February 15, 2006
Venicemenace, do you think that could ever possibly change? Clubs aren't born with fans; they have to attract them somehow. Sometimes it just takes time, especially with a new league without a stable history (yet). Chivas will grow their fan base if they stick around and are committed to the community, which it looks like they're working on pretty well. The Houston team? Well, this is definitely a misstep, but I suspect they just didn't talk to enough people before they went forward with the name. I could be wrong, but the fact that they pulled the name tells me that no malice was involved. If they pick a better image to hang their team around moving forward, this ultimately won't be a big deal.
posted by chicobangs at 02:33 PM on February 15, 2006
I agree as a business decision you have to drop the 1836 name. I find it interesting that Mexicans or Texans of Mexican descent would begrudge Texans from cellebrating their independence from 170 years ago when they themselves had just declared independence from Spain just 25 years prior to that.
posted by tron7 at 02:52 PM on February 15, 2006
I have the deepest sympathy for Raul Ramos and all the other courageous people who must make their way in the world without the benefit of a life.
posted by dzot at 02:56 PM on February 15, 2006
The fact is, as has been demonstrated by the lackluster support of Chivas USA here in Los Angeles, many Mexican-American fans already support their favorite soccer teams - teams that play in Mexico - and don't much care about MLS anyway. venicemenace is on point with his comment how can yu compare chivas from Mexico (just celebrated 100 year anniv) to any MLS team being a fan from the earthquakes since the were 1st here (80's) i feel that this league will die off in about 5 years . Mexicans who live here dont care about MLS, I was wondering just how offended the Latino population would be by this. How relevant is it to the Houston Latino community? Are they, like the majority of Americans today, largely ignorant of history that predates MTV, or do they actually take a more active role in their heritage as it reflects the history between Mexico, Texas, and to a larger extent, America? I just got back from Mexico and people to this day talk about the president who sold all the western states to the US. Do you really think someone in there 20's here in the US would knows who KENNEDY is?
posted by trrron at 03:02 PM on February 15, 2006
I did what now?
posted by 86 at 03:09 PM on February 15, 2006
agree w/ venice and trrron about the MLS. for example, my family came from mexico in the 70's, but still follow their local mexican soccer clubs rather than jump on board w/ the galaxy or chivasUSA. think about it this way: if you grew up in NYC and moved to LA, would you suddenly become a dodgers/lakers fan, or would you be a mets/yankees/knicks transplant fan? i think the same applies to the MLS and i'm skeptical that they're going to make it.
posted by ninjavshippo at 03:11 PM on February 15, 2006
I don't know about that, ninjavshippo. I grew up in Toronto and moved to New York a few years ago, and while I still follow the Toronto clubs (if only from afar), I've developed local allegiances as well. Teams have to grow on a populace before they can become truly embraced and loved. Patience, grasshopper. If Chivas stays the course, then their fan base will grow the old fashioned way, and everyone wins.
posted by chicobangs at 03:30 PM on February 15, 2006
fair enough... but you wouldn't trade a leafs jersey for a rangers one...
posted by ninjavshippo at 03:44 PM on February 15, 2006
I have one of each, thanks! (Although the Rangers one doesn't get much play, true.)
posted by chicobangs at 04:24 PM on February 15, 2006
all i can say if u can get your hands on some 1836 gear buy it it will become a colectible
posted by Barry-from-H-town at 04:46 PM on February 15, 2006
I do not think the name os offensive, but bad. Be normal, choose a name, not a number.
posted by Joe88 at 04:59 PM on February 15, 2006
I agree Joe88. 1836 is a weird name for a soccer team
posted by soccerpeep at 05:31 PM on February 15, 2006
Be normal, choose a name, not a number Joe, in most other (European?) countries football clubs don't have such formal nicknames but got them over time from supporters (or so I've been lead to believe). The recent rename of the Burn to FC Dallas and CD Chivas USA are two good examples of this, though Real Salt Lake and DC United (united from what two predecessors?) less so. Houston should go with something similar, possibly CD Houston to connect with the Hispanic community. 1836 is a weird name for a soccer team Like Schalke04 and Hannover96, SoccerPeep? Those are two big German clubs if you didn't recognize them, both play in the Bundesliga.
posted by billsaysthis at 05:54 PM on February 15, 2006
I like the number name, something out of the ordinary. As typical in todays society, people are overly sensitive. German Bundeliga 2 has Munich 1860
posted by rcparis555 at 06:41 PM on February 15, 2006
1836 is a great name for a soccer team i would be proud to be a part
posted by Andrew at 07:07 PM on February 15, 2006
Venicemenace: Perhaps his paranoia is generated by living in a country where there are well-backed movements to curtail or ban outright the use of non-English languages, apparently mostly motivated by the spectre of "too many" Spanish speakers. rcparis555: As typical in todays society, people are overly sensitive. So you'd be comfortable with a bunch of Arab-Americans setting up a soccer team called the 911s? Or a Japanese team called the 1941?
posted by rodgerd at 08:13 PM on February 15, 2006
Like Schalke04 and Hannover96 Yeah, but they (And 1860 Munchen) use the years they were founded as sports clubs (the one in Munich was originally a tennis club, pedants). I don't think Houston had a sports club in 1836. It's a dumb name for the Earthquakes, anyway.
posted by owlhouse at 09:23 PM on February 15, 2006
Not the best anyway... Why not Houston 2006...its just as good.
posted by StarFucker at 09:50 PM on February 15, 2006
How about something tremendously clever like the Texans?
posted by Hugh Janus at 07:56 AM on February 16, 2006
Does The Houston AEG Bitches sound too bitter? Maybe. Maybe too bitter.
posted by kafkaesque at 12:07 PM on February 16, 2006
How about something tremendously clever like the Texans haha yea or the Lone Satrs
posted by stolenbase7 at 01:50 PM on February 16, 2006
Nothing sadder than a Lone Satyr.
posted by yerfatma at 02:09 PM on February 16, 2006
...at a solo bacchanale.
posted by Hugh Janus at 02:54 PM on February 16, 2006
Sounds like that local version of Skull & Bones I formed in high school.
posted by yerfatma at 05:51 PM on February 16, 2006
Ah, the good ol' days of Bull and Scones.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 10:04 AM on February 17, 2006
MLS made a deal with San Jose after the Quakes flew away and part was that the name is reserved for a future San Jose franchise. So they cannot use the Earthquakes name or logo in Houston which, anyway, would be even sillier than 1836.
posted by billsaysthis at 10:18 AM on February 17, 2006
I thought 1836 was a good name, but as soon as it became evident that it was a sore spot for some Hispanics in the area, including newspaper columnists and other influential leaders, they were right to rethink the name. I don't see anything in the link saying the team is reconsidering the name, and I don't think they should.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 12:08 PM on February 17, 2006
As a Texan who's family goes back to the early days of Texas I am proud someone would name there team 1836. For all the Mexicans that were wronged at this time and are still alive I can understand there point of view, but if you weren't living in that time frame shutup.