February 04, 2006

Emmitt Smith:: "Vote in Michael Irvin now." Michael Irvin is among the 15 finalists who will be considered for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame when the Hall's Board of Selectors meets in Detroit on Saturday. Irvin is the most controversial of the Cowboy triplets and Smith claims bias could be keeping him out. To that some claim Balderdash!

posted by justgary to football at 01:02 AM - 41 comments

The Football Hall of Fame is a joke. More like the Hall of Anyone You Heard of Once. They have a minimum induction class of three every year, regardless of whether anyone in the class is actually worthy, and the pool of voters is small enough to collect them in a room where they can influence each other's position through their bias and salesmanship. Who cares if Irvin gets in? I'm guessing he will, since the FHOF doesn't have a character clause.

posted by BullpenPro at 01:42 AM on February 04

That said, it's a stacked class. People will be left out. (We've argued about this before.)

posted by chicobangs at 01:44 AM on February 04

Oh, and the baseball hall of fame does?

posted by cleatdakini at 02:21 AM on February 04

Michael Ervin does not deserve to be included in the FHOF. If anybody with the least amount of smarts, really disect his career, they will realize that it was only average compared to other more deserving players in the league. Just because he or any other player was a member of the cowboys should not give them automatic inclusion into the FHOF.

posted by samtana at 02:34 AM on February 04

they will realize that it was only average compared to other more deserving players in the league Who?

posted by justgary at 02:45 AM on February 04

Oh, and the baseball hall of fame does? You didn't indicate it, but I think you are referring to the character clause I mentioned? Check out Rule #5.

posted by BullpenPro at 03:24 AM on February 04

Irving deserves to be in the Hall. Thats the bottom line. I dont see the comparison to the Baseball Hall, It doesnt make any sence.

posted by daddisamm at 06:11 AM on February 04

So Irvin deserves in, and someone with character off the field too (like White) doesn't, just because Aikman and Smith think it's unfair that he screwed his life up with drugs after (during) his failure years. What a pile of horse hockey. Get it straight, Cowboy veterans. What you do off the field has an effect on how people perceive you, regardless of your ignorant feelings. Whether or not you have a Super Bowl ring does not excuse shitty off-field lives.

posted by mrhockey at 06:59 AM on February 04

The criteria for FHOF election is clear: Performance on the field in football games. On numbers alone, I don't think Irvin is quite ready for the Hall. Just look at the other names on the finalists list: White, Moon, Wright, Grimm, Aikman, Carson, Greenwood, Humphrey, Kuechenberg, Monk, Thurman Thomas, Derrick Thomas, Zimmerman and Madden. Holy crap...look at those names! A stacked class indeed. I would wager every single one of these guys gets in the Hall eventually. Everyone here at SpoFi who's had communication with me knows I'm a Cowboys fan through and through; it's a Dallas birthright. Whether it's because of or in spite of that, I think Rayfield Wright should be in this year, even if it's at the expense of Michael Irvin. In the past I've made no secret of my bitterness towards Irvin and his part in dragging the reputation of what was one of the finest organiztions in all of sports under Tom Landry through the mud. That being said, Michael's personal issues are not why I don't think he deserve to get in on this vote. I just think there are too many more deserving players in this class for Michael to make it, even if the writers elect the maximum of six this round. These are the six I think should be elected as the class of 2006: Reggie White L.C. Greenwood Bob Kuechenberg Troy Aikman Rayfield Wright John Madden I would go so far as to say Harry Carson, Russ Grimm and Claude Humphrey should be elected before Irvin. Michael will have another chance, just like 11 of the 15 players on this year's list, and I do believe he'll eventually get in. I just think he needs to wait his turn.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 08:51 AM on February 04

c'mon man it's so hard to pick who gets in the hall of fame, there are to many really good players that deserve it........

posted by Txwinner at 09:06 AM on February 04

Really good players or household names, fan favorites? Irvin? He may be good enough to get in someday, but he is way down on this list. As for the comments on character....well I would ask anyone what does that have to do with the HOF in any sport, SHOULD IT NOT BE ABOUT HOW THE GAME WAS PLAYED rather than about a mans personal choices and mistakes. I'm not an Irvin fan I think some day when we have ran out of superior talent he makes it in a weaker class.

posted by brothersgrim at 09:42 AM on February 04

Texan, those guys are all worthy, but if Warren Moon doesn't get in this year I'll be very disappointed. He's 4th all-time in passing yards, despite spending maybe his best years, the better part of a decade, exiled from the NFL for QBing While Black, back before Doug Williams and Randall Cunningham (along with Moon) helped to crack that door open. He's the Satchel Paige of football, and he's the only nominee whose exclusion would really piss me off. (I'm assumin Aikman and White are the only two absolute sure things this year.) Irvin? Maybe eventually, but it won't be this year. Look at Texan's list.

posted by chicobangs at 10:45 AM on February 04

Where do we get the Michael Irvin character question? By pleading "no contest" so he could play, he waited for the arresting cop was to eventually be the one prosecuted, I believe. On the second question, Mr. Invin's accuser again was arrested for the setup. In the most recent case, he was helping a friend who left some junk in his car. Michael Irvin has not yet been proven to be of low character, so those of you who can't keep up need not be concerned for the direction the rest of us travel. Or, in more simplistic terms, if you can't keep up, shut up.

posted by Bud Lang at 10:55 AM on February 04

Irvin not proven to have low character? do you watch him on espn?

posted by phuq420 at 11:10 AM on February 04

Emmitt "Now" what a joke! Richard Dent was a Super Bowl MVP and has not made the cut and he thinks Irvin should on the ballet,give me a break. He will have to wait just like the others who are and should be in the Hall of Fame some day.

posted by carp at 11:21 AM on February 04

Well Bud, that's one way to look at Irvin's history. Another perspective is knowing the Dallas D.A.'s office is notorious for letting high profile defendants off the hook, particularly when they wear a star on their helmet. The incident that always comes to mind for me is Lance Rentzel getting 5 years probation for indecent exposure to a 10 year old girl in Highland Park in 1970. I'm hoping you'll agree that probation hardly seems a fitting sentence for such a horrific crime. Common sense tells me Michael Irvin was not just the victim of circumstances. It comes down to the old adage, "where there's smoke, there's fire."

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 11:23 AM on February 04

Oh, don't slam Emmitt. He's just going to bat for his teammate. That's fair and right and cool. It probably won't happen this year for Irvin, but eventually? Maybe.

posted by chicobangs at 11:25 AM on February 04

Irvin should be in the hall no question, he was bad off the field but so was LT, but his ability overruled that. not to mention that Irvin won 3 Super Bowls

posted by Clevelander32 at 11:32 AM on February 04

Itvin didn't win 3 super bowls. Last time I checked he didn't play defense and there were 10 other players on offense

posted by scottypup at 11:41 AM on February 04

What scottypup said. Not to mention that Lawrence Taylor was arguably the best defensive lineman to ever play the game. Irvin, on the other hand, might be the best WR the Cowboys have ever had. Might be.

posted by chicobangs at 11:49 AM on February 04

So it's o.k. for Warren Moon to beat his wife, and it's o.k. for L.T. to do all the things he did off the field, not to mention all the other players in the league that have done less undesirable things in their personal (get it, the key word here is personal) lives since the dawn of time. All you Irvin (and cowboys) bashers need to get a clue and quit being so jealous of the cowboys. The fhof is based on TALENT & ACCOMPLISHMENTS, and nothing more (or should be anyway, but apparently things are changing) and the cowboys throughout their entire franchise history have exuded more of those two qualities than any other team in the league. Let me know when some other team has won more superbowls, or had more appearances than them o.k. I know the cowboys are tied with the forty-whiners on that superbowl record, and that's fine, but not even them has produced such history. After all, this is America, & if somebody can be nominated after they've done drugs or beat their wives, then Michael is just as eligible as they are!!!! If he doesn't make it this year, he will eventully, so GET OVER IT!!!! Don't hate the player, hate the league for allowing such behavior from more people than just Irvin. You know it's true & anybody who is a football fan (which I am a die hard) knows better. The only damn reason Michael is so news worthy with his indescretions IS because he wore a star on his helmet and no other reason. The media & people like the ones who have made some of these comments are hell bent on bringing the cowboys down and THAT is their only goal. GROW UP! If the leauge & Mr. Tagliabu would do their job and enforce the punishment to the players who break these rules that the NFL wants them to follow then maybe this would bring some kind of deterent to this type of destructive behavior. You CAN NOT pick & choose what players should follow the rules & which ones are allowed (continuosly) not to. DOES T.O. RING ANY BELLS!!!!! But yet, come next season, he'll apparently be causing just as many problems for the Bucs as he did for the eagles & niners. GOOD LUCK WITH ALL THAT MR. GRUDEN!!!! YOU'RE GOING TO NEED IT, BECAUSE I CAN ASSURE YOU THE LEAGUE WILL DO NOTHING ABOUT IT!

posted by marilyn1968 at 12:52 PM on February 04

Well I don't know but I have aways thought that Hall of Famers should be like heros in a way. Outstanding and talented individuals. Poeple that kids look up to. Hmm lets see...would I want my son to shoot for being like Michael Irvin or say the likes of Brett Farve. It may not be totally fair to Irvin, but it seems to be the nature of the lime light. Pete Rose has been treated unfairly in my book too, but what ya gonna do.

posted by Fan at 12:56 PM on February 04

Michael Irvin was great and plenty of people care if he gets in the Hall of Fame. Who cares what you think BullpinPro, didn't you mamma teach you maners. Your attitude sucks.

posted by peyton backer at 01:39 PM on February 04

I wish the Presidential election had this much attitude and concern. Then maybe we wouldn't be paying $2.50 a gallon. Irvin was clutch and he helped the cowboys win 3 rings. Trouble off the field may have cost him dearly. I hope he gets in.

posted by mustang71 at 01:51 PM on February 04

guess it all over for this year but the cry'n

posted by GBFan at 02:37 PM on February 04

plenty of people care if he gets in the Hall of Fame You are right to call out an excessively heavy-handed comment about the Football Hall of Fame. It is actually a fine institution with many, many worthy inductees. If I had my way I might restructure their election process, but as flawed as it may be it does perform reasonably well and is still better than the Baseball HOF Veterans Committee used to be. I regretted this post shortly after I wrote, and I apologize to anyone it offended -- it came more from knee-jerk frustration at the notion that Irvin might be inducted. I strongly dislike Irvin -- it's not an anti-Cowboy thing, I don't dislike the Cowboys, but for all sorts of reasons I cannot stand Irvin. My own chip, and I live with it. Your attitude sucks. Your manners are not beyond reproach. If you disagree with something I said, state your objection to the opinion. When you start with commentary directed at the source, it gets to nasty name-calling that serves no healthy purpose. Unless it's the only thing that can mollify you enough to prevent wanton violent behavior. In which case, fire away. Who cares what you think BullpinPro Nobody. Problem solved.

posted by BullpenPro at 02:38 PM on February 04

This year's inductees have been announced and for me, it's hard to argue against any of them. I sure am glad to see Rayfield Wright finally elected. c'mon man it's so hard to pick who gets in the hall of fame, there are to many really good players that deserve it........ Not so hard really. chico, I agree with you on Moon. He shouldn't have been left out of the list I put in earlier.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 03:03 PM on February 04

That's a fine list. I'm comfortable with everyone who made it. Congratulations to all of them.

posted by chicobangs at 03:42 PM on February 04

I'm glad to see that Rayfield finally made it for no reason except that it should mean the end of local radio douches whining about an anti-Cowboys bias. Lord, that got tedious.

posted by Ufez Jones at 03:57 PM on February 04

Name one WR that played in Dallas who was better then Irvin. Bob Hayes is the next best and Irvin more then doubles his receptions. He is second in post season receptions behind the best ever. He is also second in post season yards behind the best ever. He is third in recieving yards in a season behind the best ever and Steve Largent. And third in 100-yard receiving games, behind the best ever and Don Maynard. Steve Largent and Don Maynard are in the HOF. The best ever will be in the next few years. He is the next guy whos not in the HOF on each of these lists and why should any WR go ahead of him if he is?

posted by Clevelander32 at 04:52 PM on February 04

I never said Irvin shouldn't be in. I said he shouldn't go in ahead of the six who made it this year. Although... you wanna argue about him vs. Art Monk? Because in every meaningful category, Monk had a better, not to mention longer, career than Irvin. Irvin's just been louder.

posted by chicobangs at 05:31 PM on February 04

Not to mention that Lawrence Taylor was arguably the best defensive lineman to ever play the game. Chico, make that the best linebacker to ever play the game. Or better yet, the best defensive player to ever play the game.

posted by drevl at 05:44 PM on February 04

Although... you wanna argue about him vs. Art Monk? Because in every meaningful category, Monk had a better, not to mention longer, career than Irvin. Irvin's just been louder. Oh, I'll take that bait. Is a player better just because he plays long enough to pile up a lot of stats? Staying in the league long enough to put up those stats is impressive and I hope Monk gets in next year but Irvin had more of an impact on the game albeit over a shorter span. I'll take the players who dominate for a shorter period over the players who are solid for a long time. Case in point, I think we can all agree that Jim Brown is better than Jerome Bettis even though Bettis has more career yards.

posted by tron7 at 07:41 PM on February 04

Monk had a better, not to mention longer, career than Irvin. Irvin's just been louder. Just a quick glance at the statistics, and it's hard to agree with you, chicobangs. Monk's numbers are better than Irvin's because he seemed to hang around for a couple of sub-par seasons. The difference in total receiving yards can be attributed to the extra 35 games he played at the tail end of his career. In every rate stat, Irvin beats him: yrds/reception, yrds/game, td/game, receptions/game. Irvin's best season (1995) is better than Monk's (1984). Irvin's best 3-year (1991-1993) is better than Monk's (1984-1986). Same with 5-year peaks and 7-year peaks.

posted by grum@work at 10:38 PM on February 04

I wonder if we will have a very similar thread next year? Oh the possibilities.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:25 AM on February 05

Probably so, YingYang, due to the abundance of Texas-based contributors here. It seems quintessential that whether or not a player gets in the football HOF depends on whom they played for rather than how they stack up to the rest of the players in contention.

posted by mrhockey at 08:50 AM on February 05

Fan.....didn't Farve have some issues with pain killers? What's difference??? Oh is it ok because DR gave them to him? Still wrong and not what I want my son to "LOOK UP TOO" Role models are "PARENTS" "TEACHERS" SPIRTUAL LEADERS" when it comes to personal life choices M.Irvin, and many others can be "SPORTS" role models based on their on field achievments as the HOF should be...I would want my son to have many of the attributes of PETE ROSE the way he approached the game and the work ethic, what my son would have to do is make better personal choices and that will come from my guidence as a parent and the lessons I teach him.

posted by brothersgrim at 09:45 AM on February 05

So what we are saying is that, gambling is not OK, but cocaine and prostitutes are. Great message NFL. Especially considering gambling is legal and the others are not.

posted by mcstan13 at 10:47 PM on February 05

I just read the entire text and I find it hard to believe it took that long to mention Pete Rose. Thanks Brogrim for that last comment. Like it or not, off-field antics influence the committee's choices and Irvin won't be hearing Canton's call for a long while, if ever.

posted by weeklyguy at 09:05 PM on February 06

A lot of players have made mistakes off the field but,I think M.Irvin made his worse by the way he reacted(showing up in court w/ fur coats,etc.)I think people felt like he was thumbing his nose at society's rules.That being said:I still think Irving is being treated unfairly(see stat listing provided by "Clevander32")because the FHOF specifically says it's criteria is based on what happens between the chalk lines.I almost don't want to be the first to mention this but,since most sports were originally segrgated;in every "H.O.F." there are quite a few infamous alcoholics and notorious racist on display,so what about their "character"?!?!?

posted by da1realsportsfanatic at 12:52 PM on February 11

"Michael Ervin does not deserve to be included in the FHOF. If anybody with the least amount of smarts, really disect his career, they will realize that it was only average compared to other more deserving players in the league. Just because he or any other player was a member of the cowboys should not give them automatic inclusion into the FHOF."First of all you mention "smarts" & you can't even spell the guy's name right.Secondly there are only two(2)receivers currently in the Hall w/ better stats than Irvin and other than J.Rice there are none from his era that have the Pro Bowls,the stats,AND the JEWELERY to even come close.When I make that statement I mean no disrespect to the likes of A.REED,T.Brown. or Cris Carter(whom I've always thought was the BEST RECEIVER of the modern era--Yes,better than J.Rice).It's obvious that M.Irvin deserves to be in the Hall,almost as obvious as the bias against him. KEEP IT REAL!

posted by da1realsportsfanatic at 01:50 PM on February 11

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