January 05, 2006

Baseball Writers' Association of America Hall of Fame Ballot: Voting results will be announced Jan. 10th. Oral Hershiser, Dwight Gooden, Albert Belle and Will Clark are amoung the 14 1st time candidates. The writers submit their ballots this weekend and if it's like last year they are very unlikely to pick a 1st timer (Wade Boggs was only the 4th 1st time 3rd Baseman ever elected last year). I hope Ozzie Guillen, (World Series Title not withstanding) Gary DiSarcina and others aren't waiting for the phone to ring. Without at least 5% of the vote from the previous year you can't stay on the ballot. Only 1 player (Willie McGee) stands as a returnee as a 1st timer last year on this years ballot. 29 players in all are up for vote. Who's going to make it?

posted by skydivedad to baseball at 11:58 AM - 34 comments

The writers are a tough crowd to impress and I don't don't see them electing any of the 1st timers on this list. Albert Belle will probable garner the most of votes of these 1st timers. I see only 2 Players getting the nod from the writers and ready to join the Immortals. Andre Dawson and Bruce Sutter, although it would be appropiate for Mattingly to join them. (The views expressed here are solely my own) :)

posted by skydivedad at 12:14 PM on January 05, 2006

although it would be appropiate for Mattingly to join them. Amen, brother, amen An unimpressive class by bb hof standards. Orel and Albert are my picks. Doc on a longshot.

posted by HATER 187 at 12:21 PM on January 05, 2006

Its time for Bert "be home" Blyleven to be elected. Long over-due!

posted by daddisamm at 12:40 PM on January 05, 2006

Pretty mediocre class this year. My ballot: Bert Blyleven (I'm a small-Haller) Although I wouldn't object to votes for Dawson, Clark, Gooden, or Mattingly. edit: Here's what we said last year.

posted by mbd1 at 12:50 PM on January 05, 2006

I hear you daddisamm, hopefully he'll (Bert Blyleven) make before it's put in the hands of the Veterans Committee. Just look how they're treating Ron Santo.

posted by skydivedad at 12:50 PM on January 05, 2006

I like Dawson, but I don't think he will get in. Willie McGee MAYBE. My guy I would vote for without question is Sutter.

posted by Wrigley South at 01:04 PM on January 05, 2006

This is the chance for Blyleven, Sutter and Rice. I'm not sure anyone else is really worthy - though Belle did have some MONSTER years.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:13 PM on January 05, 2006

MATTINGLY?? i dont think so... he had a couple good/great years thats it... what did he play 10 years tops? no way is he a hall of famer. next thing youll say that MUNSON should be a hall of famer..please. how about JIM KAAT? the guy pitched 20 years...16 gold gloves..190+ complete games....what else do you need to be a hall of famer? what MATTINGLY had one or two batting crowns? hall of fame?? no way....

posted by no band waggon at 02:13 PM on January 05, 2006

I'd go with Lee Smith & Bruce Sutter without much hesitation. The sluggers on the list were generally red-hot for a few years. I'm not sure if any of them belong in the Hall of Fame, which I think should be for the absolute elite in the game. Belle, Garvey, Dawson, & Clark were great ballplayers - no doubt about it, but I'm not sure about the Hall.

posted by ChiSox1977 at 02:25 PM on January 05, 2006

Blyleven's my only sure-thing. I'd vote for Sutter over Smith, but there's such an anti-reliever bias among the rank and file that I know I'd be throwing my vote away. Dawson's creaking in there, and I'd let Orel be on my list, but just by the skin of his teeth. Because, of course, I have a vote. Of course.

posted by chicobangs at 02:33 PM on January 05, 2006

Dawson's creaking in there Cheeky bastard. It took me an hour to pick up on that. no band waggon I will not let you goad me into an argument.....I will not let you goad me into an argument.....I will not let you goad me into an argument.....I will not let you goad me into an argument.....I will not let you goad me into an argument.....

posted by HATER 187 at 03:41 PM on January 05, 2006

Nobody in that group worthy as first timers. A few will struggle for years before squeeking in.

posted by nowandthen at 04:14 PM on January 05, 2006

Do we have to elect three or so every year? Tell you the truth, there's only a few players on the list who even begin to thrill me, and that's not enough for the Hall. I want the Hall of Fame to be about the "very, very best" not the "really pretty good." Mattingly is a personal favorite of mine, and I've always been a big fan of Dave Parker. I enjoyed Will Clark, and Albert Belle was a power machine and a attitude problem. Blyleven, Sutter, Smith, all good pitchers. But none of these guys will send me running around the Hall in search of their busts. I really don't want to see the building start overflowing with "decent" players just because someone has to go in every year.

posted by dyams at 05:28 PM on January 05, 2006

Albert Belle is in. DiSar is not, at least for 2006. DODGERS FANS FOR HERSHISER IN COOPERSTOWN.

posted by Joe88 at 05:40 PM on January 05, 2006

Albert Belle was amazing. For a very short time.

posted by yerfatma at 06:59 PM on January 05, 2006

I was in the stands for an exhibition game between the USA Olympic baseball team and the Japanese team at Candlestick Park the day before the 1984 All-Star Game. Will Clark was on that team, along with future MLBers Mark McGwire, Barry Larkin, B.J. Surhoff, Bobby Witt, Bill Swift, Oddibe McDowell, Cory Snyder, Shane Mack, and others. Clark bat second. He swung at a two-strike changeup from the Japanese hurler, and foul tipped it into the glove of the Japan catcher, who dropped the ball. It rolled underneath him, and he stood up, searching for it on the ground. Instead of heading back toward the dugout, Clark, who saw the ball, kicked it away from the catcher down the third base line, and high-tailed it for first base. It was obvious to the booing crowd, but not to the umpire, who hadn't seen it. The Japan team's catcher and manager protested, and Clark was called out at first. As he jogged back, I and about 7,000 other people let him have it. His next time at bat, he hit a homer over the left field wall. I wasn't impressed. Little did I know that this would be the first of over a hundred he would hit over the chain-link fences of the 'Stick. I was mortified when I heard the Giants drafted Clark in 1985, and cringed at the thought he would -- after his disgraceful display as a member of the USA team -- wear my beloved orange and black. I was rooting against him making it in the Majors, but most high Giant draftees didn't anyway (Alan Cockrell, Dante Powell, Calvin Murray, Steve Hosey, too many others to mention). Clark, however, wasn't to be denied. He hit a homer in his first game in Class A Fresno. The buzz was deafening on the broadcasts, and all over the papers. Then came spring training in 1986, when catcher Bob Brenly gave the loud, brash rookie the nickname "The Thrill." Although he played himself on to the big club, everything was set up for him to fall on his face, like so many other can't-miss kids (Bill Bordley, Randy Elliott, Rich Murray, Mark Grant, Roger Mason, Eric Gunderson, too many others, yada yada yada). His first Major League at-bat was against Nolan Ryan at the Astrodome. Ryan started him out with the world famous Ryan Express. POW! Over the center field wall. I had to make a choice: keep holding my grudge, or enjoy the ride. I chose the latter, and Clark won me over. I became a serious baseball fan in 1972, after the Giants came within two games of reaching the World Series (Pittsburgh, led by Roberto Clemente, Willie Stargell, Dock Ellis, and Steve Blass beat the Giants and then Baltimore in 1971). Mays, McCovey, Marichal, and young Bobby Bonds were on that team. Despite all that talent, they went in the dumper early, and only a late season surge kept them out of last place in the West. By the end of that season, Willie Mays was traded to the Mets for a substandard pitcher (answer to the trivia question: Charlie Williams) and 50G's. I had seen the Giant legend at the Stick once, but never saw him get a hit. 1972 was the beginning of a steady slide for the Giants. From that year until 1978, (when Joe Altobelli managed to keep them atop the NL West until they petered out in September), there was, other than individual performances, nothing to cheer about -- they finished no higher than third and didn't seriously contend until 1982, when Frank Robinson took them to the last weekend before the Dodgers eliminated us, and Joe Morgan returned the favor the next day. Finally, two years after a 100-loss campaign in 1985, Clark came into his own in his sophomore season, and led the Giants (skippered by Roger Craig) to the NL West title. I went to a store and bought myself a T-shirt that said "San Francisco Giants, 1987 National League West Champions." For the first time in my life, I watched and cheered as my favorite baseball team earned the distinction "Champions." Although the Giants lost to the Cardinals in the playoffs that year (I have since forgiven Candy Maldonado) and have yet to win it all, I was at that moment finally truly proud to be a Giant fan, mainly because of Will Clark. Regardless of whether Will the Thrill makes it to Cooperstown's Hall of Fame or not, he will always be in mine.

posted by L.N. Smithee at 08:08 PM on January 05, 2006

I think that it is time for Alan Trammel to make it to Cooperstown.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:11 PM on January 05, 2006

Jim Rice, anyone?

posted by rockamora at 08:56 PM on January 05, 2006

Blyleven would get my vote. I'd think about throwing a vote in for Belle, but I just can't do it. His strike shortened 1994 season was on pace to be an absolute legendary season. His 1995 and 1998 seasons were also huge, and he was very consistant with the bat. I just wish he had 3 or 4 more seasons (even if the last two were on the downhill of his career). Dawson and Rice would make my Hall of Very Good as well. Mattingly was nothing more than 6 seasons of very good followed by 6 more of just barely above average. He doesn't make it in until he's up for the Veteran's Committee and his Yankee cronies vote him in.

posted by grum@work at 09:08 PM on January 05, 2006

I agree, Alan Trammel should be signing autographs HOF Weekend...at the Cooperstown Holiday Inn, but not in the HOF. 1960. That was the last time the Hall didn't have an inductee. They need that weekend. There will be some behind the scenes arm-twisting, even if the Veteran's Committee has to pull a rabbit out of their hat. I'm guessing they figure it is time for Andre Dawson.

posted by ?! at 09:55 PM on January 05, 2006

Jack Morris gets in.

posted by sonomajoe at 12:31 AM on January 06, 2006

Great story L.N. Smithee. I didn't really appreciate how good Clark was until reading a case for his HoF induction this year. Forgot where I saw it though.

posted by yerfatma at 06:10 AM on January 06, 2006

nobandwagon, did you forget to take your medication yesterday? Mattingly may fall short of HofF status, but was that Mattingly/Munson tyrade really necessary? Mattingly's 1 MVP, 6 all-star, 9 gold glove seasons may not be Ruthian, but most teams would have been happy to have had his 13 years at first base. Can't complain about your choice of Jim Kaat, however. Hope he gets in.

posted by drevl at 09:28 AM on January 06, 2006

I'm all for Bert Blyleven in the HOF. I don't know what's keeping him out? It sure isn't because there's other more deserving players. If Ryne Sanberg gets in with his stats, then Blyleven should have been a lock years ago.

posted by Tommy Woods at 09:55 AM on January 06, 2006

Jack Morris gets in. If Morris gets in and Blyleven doesn't, I'll have to make a plan to visit Cooperstown and piss on it.

posted by grum@work at 12:28 PM on January 06, 2006

2006 Class by Win Shares

posted by yerfatma at 01:05 PM on January 06, 2006

Gary DeSarcina played 12 years in the big leagues and only totalled 65 Win Shares? That's gotta be a low for a HOF eligible position player.

posted by mbd1 at 01:27 PM on January 06, 2006

I like Hershiser's chances. He was great and all the reporters like him because he looks more like a reporter than a jock. Belle is going to be a victim of the beginning among the suspected steroid tainted guys. Most of the reporters hate him. Alot of them openly cheered when he retired.

posted by gronir_ hitrops at 03:54 PM on January 06, 2006

yerfatma Thanks for the link. That's real interesting stuff. Never heard of it before but makes excellent sense. Kewl

posted by skydivedad at 04:15 PM on January 06, 2006

I don't understand this WIN SHARES statistic, but if 350 is HOF numbers - and Gossage only has 223, Smith 198 and Sutter 168 - methinks the stat is garbage.

posted by drevl at 09:42 AM on January 07, 2006

PS to my above. If anyone knows how to calculate this WIN SHARES number, would you please do so for Mariano Rivera. If he also comes out as a 200 share guy I think we'll have a better idea of the worth of the stat.

posted by drevl at 09:46 AM on January 07, 2006

methinks the stat is garbage. Right, because there are no overrated players in the HoF. Win Shares does undervalue relievers compared to starters, but you need to compare win shares among relievers, not across all positions. There aren't too many stats that would let you compare 1B to SP either.

posted by yerfatma at 12:24 PM on January 07, 2006

drevl, Mo has 161 career win shares. there's a sortable list of win share stats for players that were active in 2005 available here.

posted by goddam at 02:03 PM on January 07, 2006

I am willing to go out on a limb, right now and declare Bruce Sutter is going to the HOF Tommorow. Stone Cold Lock. It's been an interesting read, this thread, but if you don't have Sutter on your ballot you're just wrong. If I'm wrong and I'm not, you have my permission to trash me mercilessly. You heard it here 1st. I don't care what you use to make your picks but Sutter was that good, that unhittable, the man who change the face of Baseball Forever, #42 is going to the HOF. Sutter Is A Lock!

posted by skydivedad at 01:30 PM on January 09, 2006

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