11/21/24
November 10, 2005
Carpenter Derails the D-Train: The Cards' Chris Carpenter takes home the NL Cy Young Award, beating the Marlins' Dontrelle Willis by 20 votes just three years after shoulder surgery.
posted by The_Black_Hand to baseball at 02:16 PM - 27 comments
Carpenter was great all year round, besides, the Rocket was only a 6 inning pitcher - the Astros offense sucked, but not hanging around till the later innings didn't help. At least the NL had 3 worthy candidates in Carpenter, Willis, and Clemens. The AL had one, and he didn't win.
posted by The Gangstinator at 02:43 PM on November 10, 2005
Carpenter is at least defensible. Even if you discount the meaningless wins stat, he ate up 30 more innings and had a comparable WHIP. Even so, I would have voted for Clemens if I had the ability to impersonate a famous baseball writer. That ERA is absurd. There really wasn't a more dominant pitcher in baseball this year. Anyway, good to see that Carpenter is being rewarded. I remember when he came up with the Jays, it looked like he'd carry on the tradition of Stieb and Key. It's too bad they don't have him around anymore.
posted by panoptican at 02:53 PM on November 10, 2005
I actaully would have gone with Willis in the end. If wins are what are important - as well as ERA, well - Willis had a lower ERA and more wins. Clemens was great - but I like my starters to pitch a little more. Not that Carpenter is a bad choice, but down the stretch, Willis' numbers surpassed Carpenter's.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:08 PM on November 10, 2005
Either one would have been a good choice. Carpenter was consistently superior all year long, but Willis carried his team more, especially in the second half. Don't worry too much about Dontrelle. He'll win this award, probably a few times. Both Carpenter and Willis were fantastic this year, and were solid leaders, both on and off the field, for their respective teams. (Which is more than you could ever say for whassisface, The Terrell Owens Of Baseball.)
posted by chicobangs at 04:09 PM on November 10, 2005
Damn, chico, you just had to summon the Candyman one more time, din'ja?
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:41 PM on November 10, 2005
I cain't he'p mahself! (At least I put it in small print!)
posted by chicobangs at 04:52 PM on November 10, 2005
Willis may very well have won this year if he hadn't blown that game against Philadelphia in the 9th in such fantastic fashion. But like chico said, he'll likely win a handful of these over his career. Win-loss is really what is determined this award. Maybe, but Clemens pretty much won last year based on win-loss. Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, the bear eats you. Congrats to Chris. He had one hell of a season. My favorite stat is that he had the most quality starts in a season since Bob Gibson in his miraculous 1968 season. Impressive and deserved.
posted by Ufez Jones at 05:58 PM on November 10, 2005
Maybe, but Clemens pretty much won last year based on win-loss. Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, the bear eats you. I was going to post some nice little statistical comparison about how the difference between Clemens and Carpenter (in innings pitched and ERA) could be bridged by a MUCH worse than average pitcher, suggesting that Clemens would be deserving of the award despite the inning difference. Then I read this post and decided that, yah, what goes around, comes around. As a Blue Jay fan, I'm glad to see that Carpenter wins the Cy Young award. He was a good kid with the Jays, and while it was a smart decision (at the time) to release him, I'd love to see what a Halladay-Carpenter rotation monster could have done in Toronto.
posted by grum@work at 09:15 PM on November 10, 2005
grum, today on the local ESPN radio station, Max Kellerman actually went into the statistical comparison that i think you're talking about. iirc, clemens averaged 1 less inning per game than carpenter, but carpenter's ERA was 1 point higher than clemens'. so if you take clemens plus the worst full-time reliever in the league the combo would still be better than carpenter. (is that right?) as a side note, Kellerman is probably one of the few guys on ESPN radio worth listening to. he's the only one that routinely cites sabr stats. he admits when he has a bias towards a certain team. and he also admits when he knows nothing about a certain subject. he's basically the anti-Stephen A.
posted by goddam at 09:49 PM on November 10, 2005
I was going to post some nice little statistical comparison about how the difference between Clemens and Carpenter (in innings pitched and ERA) could be bridged by a MUCH worse than average pitcher, suggesting that Clemens would be deserving of the award despite the inning difference. Oh, dammit. I really hadn't intended on pre-empting a grum stat post. Those are some of my SpoFi most favoritist-ist-ists... I rescind! I resciiiiiiind!
posted by Ufez Jones at 09:51 PM on November 10, 2005
Gang... A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, the Cy Young Award was won for one reason...guts. Drysdale, Koufax, Gibson, Marichal, Seaver...they all had it. THREE HUNDRED INNINGS and TWENTY-FIVE WINS were the benchmark of success. In today's world of six-inning "superstars", Chris Carpenter is an exception to the rule. No, he doesn't have Donnie's fancy leg kick or pretty smile, nor Clemmens' rep or legendary scowl. Carpenter brings to mind a word seldom associated with today's pitchers...STOPPER. With the exception of that two game "post-clinch" slump, check out Chris' stats following a Cardinal loss. And let's not forget that ten-inning, 100 degree afternoon win over the "Rocket". Guts... I would NOT have been devastated had Donnie won; his numbers were there. Even Oswalt has it going. And don't get me wrong, I'm A BIG fan of the Rajah, but he plays in a different world. While Carp, Donnie and the "O" face a 162 game grind, Clemens stays home, and if he gets lit up in the third, showers, dresses and takes the limo to the palace. Guts? Let's congratulate a man who, two years ago, probably looked at a junior college coaching job and, today lifts a once damaged arm in victory, as a Cy Young winner, instead of pissing like the dreamers we are.
posted by Thumper at 10:27 PM on November 10, 2005
Preach on, Thumper. (Kellerman's back with ESPN? That's great news. Now can they bring him back to Friday Night Boxing, where he did his best work?)
posted by chicobangs at 10:45 PM on November 10, 2005
Kellerman's show is on Tuesday's 7-10pm, but sometimes he fills in for Michael Kay (like he did today). i think he's a boxing analyst for HBO now.
posted by goddam at 11:06 PM on November 10, 2005
Clemens with a 1.87 ERA, big deal! He was pitching in the National League.
posted by INOALOSER at 11:12 PM on November 10, 2005
That may very well have been the best SpoFi comment cherry ever. Thank you, Thumper. And let's not forget that ten-inning, 100 degree afternoon win over the "Rocket". Guts... That was a FanTastTic game, on both sides, but yes that one, and then right at the end of the season when they went face to face again, Carp came up victorious.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:17 PM on November 10, 2005
Hmph. Best cherry ever? Where is the CAPS LOCK key? The weird-ass formatting that sacrifices whitespace and brevity for sheer good looks? While quotation marks are included, they're also properly closed. Forgot a personal insult. Forgot multiple commas as a stopgap solution to not knowing where the period goes. And s/he forgot to hit back on a really old Mac browser so the whole thing reposts itself.
posted by yerfatma at 06:46 AM on November 11, 2005
Clemens with a 1.87 ERA, big deal! He was pitching in the National League. Question where does Carpenter pitch? If I'm not mistaken we are talking about the NL CY Young Award. So then all pitchers era should be that low then right. As they pitch in the same league.
posted by jtrluva at 07:46 AM on November 11, 2005
Hmm. You guys are right. After reviewing the evidence a little closer I would have it Carpenter, Clemens and Willis. And I really don't have a great defence for not giving it to Clemens. It's the quality starts and the head-to-head that I think sways it minutely in Carpenter's direction.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:54 AM on November 11, 2005
so if you take clemens plus the worst full-time reliever in the league the combo would still be better than carpenter. (is that right?) That's it exactly. It's not something new (I've seen the same comparison done for Johnson one year he didn't win), but it's rarely ever mentioned by someone in the mainstream media. Good on Kellerman, for putting that information out there for more people to see it. Oh, dammit. I really hadn't intended on pre-empting a grum stat post. Those are some of my SpoFi most favoritist-ist-ists... I rescind! I resciiiiiiind! That's funny, because sometimes I get the impression it's more "Here comes a grum stat post. That's going to take up a whole screen. Shouldn't he be working or something?" Besides, how good can the posts be? I lack common sense.
posted by grum@work at 08:58 AM on November 11, 2005
Are you kidding grum? I pass your comments off as my own in bars. You make me look like the scholarly sports junkie my friends have come to admire and respect. Plus, I'm pretty sure you, Doc and I are the last baseball fans left in Ontario.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:12 AM on November 11, 2005
And Frazer.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:12 AM on November 11, 2005
I pass your comments off as my own in bars. Grum's statistics comments? The variance of you getting laid will grow wider over any time series we'd care to graph.
posted by yerfatma at 12:16 PM on November 11, 2005
Grum's statistics comments? The variance of you getting laid will grow wider over any time series we'd care to graph. He does have a point there. I definitely didn't flex my sports stats muscles in front of my wife until WELL into the relationship. However, if some chick in a bar actually seems interested in a "grum stat comment", then one of two things: 1) Don't let her get away! She's a perfect catch! 2) Run away! She's playing along so she can rob you later that night!
posted by grum@work at 12:28 PM on November 11, 2005
... Fuck you :)
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:29 PM on November 11, 2005
Clemens with a 1.87 ERA, big deal! He was pitching in the National League. Considering that this is a discussion of the National League Cy Young Award, this might be the funniest post I've ever seen. You, sir, do indeed "know a loser."
posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:33 PM on November 11, 2005
Or 3) look for the adam's apple!!!
posted by jojomfd1 at 10:54 AM on November 12, 2005
The Rocket led the majors with a 1.87 ERA, but a lack of run support from his NL champion Houston Astros limited Clemens to a 13-8 record, which surely cost him votes. That ERA is absolutley disgusting. I love this guy I thought his 7th cy young was in the bag. Win-loss is really what is determined this award.