11/05/24
March 19, 2012
Report: Peyton Manning Has Picked Broncos: Peyton Manning told John Elway today the Denver Broncos are his choice and he wants to start exclusive negotiations with the team, an NFL source told the Denver Post. Tim Tebow appears to be on the trade block. New Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shahid Khan said in February there was a "100 percent" chance he would've drafted Tebow if he owned the team in 2010.
Re tron7's post above: As of this writing, negotiations have apparently intensified between Manning, his agent Tom Condon, and the Denver Broncos on terms for a deal to play there. The Broncos plan to trade Tebow if a deal can be reached.
posted by NerfballPro at 12:11 PM on March 19, 2012
I can see Manning's thought process -- Tebow got them to the playoffs? Umm, yeah, I'll go there.
posted by bperk at 12:25 PM on March 19, 2012
From this Patriots fan's perspective, Manning in Denver would be interesting, if the Pats really are interested in Tebow.
posted by yerfatma at 12:26 PM on March 19, 2012
I got my wish*.
*See the 'Seahawks sign Flynn' article comment thingy deal.
posted by THX-1138 at 01:05 PM on March 19, 2012
BTW, from the comments on the source article, this made me actually 'lol'. For real. I don't know how you could string together all those words in that order and not burst into flame or something:
thaibeau wrote:This is only happening because of Tebow's beliefs because if you look at the body of work Tebow is a far superior QB. Please do not throw Tebow away without giving him a chance to compete against Manning.
That's good.
posted by THX-1138 at 01:12 PM on March 19, 2012
Can you wish the Broncos some DTs and a Mike Wallace, please?
posted by tron7 at 01:13 PM on March 19, 2012
I don't know how you could string together all those words in that order and not burst into flame or something
A bunch of Tebow fans in the Rocky Mountain area have probably already burst into flame today.....
posted by NerfballPro at 01:24 PM on March 19, 2012
A bunch of Tebow fans in the Rocky Mountain area have probably already burst into flame today.....
I know. I'm making popcorn right now.
posted by THX-1138 at 01:27 PM on March 19, 2012
A bunch of Tebow fans in the Rocky Mountain area have probably already burst into flame today.....
I know. I'm making popcorn right now.
Cool. I got the marshmallows.
posted by NerfballPro at 01:33 PM on March 19, 2012
This is the kind of Tennessee Volunteer domination of the men's hoops tournament that the Knoxville AD had in mind when he hired Bruce Pearl.
posted by beaverboard at 02:13 PM on March 19, 2012
The fun part will be the Denver talking-heads who were busy building up Tebow, and will now have to switch gears and inform their (now fanatical) readers/listeners why it's okay to trade Tebow.
This is going to be fascinating.
posted by grum@work at 03:14 PM on March 19, 2012
Want some popcorn and marshmallows, grum?
posted by THX-1138 at 03:17 PM on March 19, 2012
The local sports radio hosts don't think Tebow makes sense for Jacksonville. After all, who would take a chance on a quarterback who would sell thousands of additional season tickets here when we have such a sure thing in Blaine Gabbert?
Ugh. If the Jaguars screw up twice by not getting Tebow to revive the NFL's least exciting franchise, I don't know that I can keep supporting a team with such sorry-ass management.
posted by rcade at 03:22 PM on March 19, 2012
If it happens, its a great short term choice for Denver and an elegant way out of the Tebow conundrum. That said, assuming that Tebow really can be groomed into a top tier quarterback - a subject which is genuinely up for debate - one has to wonder if they're not sacrificing their future for a couple of solid seasons.
posted by Joey Michaels at 03:46 PM on March 19, 2012
It will also be mandatory to start a Bronco uniform watch. The Colorform cut out pants and jerseys and Sex And The City helmets are not dignified enough vestments for a guy like Peyton.
posted by beaverboard at 03:58 PM on March 19, 2012
I think Tebow will end up in Florida. Just not sure which team. I think Miami may look now too, if their GM isn't too toxic ;)
posted by scully at 04:07 PM on March 19, 2012
A bunch of Tebow fans in the Rocky Mountain area have probably already burst into flame today.....
I hope you didn't mean that literally.
posted by Howard_T at 04:21 PM on March 19, 2012
Then there's the concern after they trade Tebow, should god choose to gather his lightning and smite one of Elway's car dealerships.
posted by beaverboard at 04:36 PM on March 19, 2012
That said, assuming that Tebow really can be groomed into a top tier quarterback - a subject which is genuinely up for debate - one has to wonder if they're not sacrificing their future for a couple of solid seasons.
Where genuinely means not really.
I did notice you didn't say what kind of future they'd be giving up ... smart move.
posted by justgary at 05:57 PM on March 19, 2012
And lo, on the day Manning said he would sign with Denver, little Timmy assumed the Tebowmania position, laid his head in one hand, and said unto God:
"Shit."
posted by roberts at 06:40 PM on March 19, 2012
The local sports radio hosts don't think Tebow makes sense for Jacksonville.
I guess it comes down to what Denver is asking for him. If Jacksonville gives up a fourth or fifth round draft pick for him, the short-term asses in seats effect will be absolutely worth it. If Denver's looking for a first rounder, I think the Jags would be selling the potental for long term success in the name of short term ticket revenue. And in that regard, he doesn't make sense.
I guess I have to qualify that assertion with the caveat that I don't believe Tebow to be even a serviceable NFL quarterback. I understand that there are others who disagree with me *cough*SkipBaylessJackass*cough*, and think that Tebow will continue to "just win." But I feel fairly confident that on a team that gives up more than 10 points per game, and a capable running back and line, Timmy's weaknesses will be all too apparent.
posted by tahoemoj at 06:48 PM on March 19, 2012
I did notice you didn't say what kind of future they'd be giving up ... smart move.
Well, you know, I've made my share of "What the hell were they thinking with Tebow" jokes this whole season, but there is a subset of football minds that in all other ways are sane and respectable that seem to think he has the potential to be a major quarterback. I don't really see it, but I didn't see the Giants having a shot at winning the Superbowl this year as of October, so what the hell do I know? I'm willing to give the experts who think there's something to him the benefit of the doubt.
posted by Joey Michaels at 07:25 PM on March 19, 2012
Really ?
Indubitably. Jacksonville is already rolling the dice and gambling the franchise on a young quarterback who throws wounded ducks. Tebow, for all of his deficiencies as a quarterback, is an upgrade on the field over how Blaine Gabbert played last season. Off the field, it's no contest. Tebow sells 3,000 season tickets, reawakens the fan base and puts Jacksonville back on the NFL map for the first time since the 1999 season that took them to an AFC championship.
Getting Tebow has the potential to be like what happened when the Texas Rangers acquired Nolan Ryan. His no-hitters and the excitement they brought built that new ballpark. The future of the franchise was shaky before that happened, because Arlington voters were not sold on the team after so many miserable seasons.
posted by rcade at 07:41 PM on March 19, 2012
As a Broncos fan I'm not that happy to get Peyton on the team - I'd still like to see that his arm strength has come back and he can still feel his fingers after the first sack. As a Broncos fan I'm overjoyed that I no longer have to watch Timmy lob passes into the stands and be just good enough to keep him in Denver. Bleh.
posted by deflated at 08:00 PM on March 19, 2012
umm, rcade, I don't think the comparison of Tebow to Nolan Ryan is applicable at all. Nolan Ryan is a hall of famer and one of the best at his position, ever. Last year the Broncos, under Tebow, had the 31st ranked passing attack in the NFL. There is no legitimate comparison between Tebow and Nolan Ryan.
posted by insomnyuk at 08:09 PM on March 19, 2012
Tim Tebow is a rock star. He brings in the fans, especially in Florida. For purposes of the Jaguars, they need that more than anything else. Whether or not Tebow = wins doesn't matter right away, and the Jags would probably be given a couple of years grace period by the fans.
posted by bperk at 08:57 PM on March 19, 2012
Nolan Ryan is a hall of famer and one of the best at his position, ever.
First part, true.
Second part, eh...not so much.
Top 50, probably.
Nevertheless, still way ahead of wherever Tebow will get without an unbelievable skills upgrade.
posted by grum@work at 08:59 PM on March 19, 2012
Getting Tebow has the potential to be like what happened when the Texas Rangers acquired Nolan Ryan
How did we get to comparing Tebow to one of the most dominant major league pitchers of all time? And in a discussion of Peyton Manning to boot.
My head hurts ...
posted by cixelsyd at 09:07 PM on March 19, 2012
There is no legitimate comparison between Tebow and Nolan Ryan.
They'll both sell tickets, though. And Tebow going to JAX will mean the Jags are talkeld about frequently on ESPN. That's something.
posted by Bonkers at 09:15 PM on March 19, 2012
Tim Tebow is a rock star. He brings in the fans, especially in Florida. For purposes of the Jaguars, they need that more than anything else. Whether or not Tebow = wins doesn't matter right away, and the Jags would probably be given a couple of years grace period by the fans.
Exactly. Worst case, Tebow would give the Jags 2-4 years of fan excitement and heightened season ticket sales and national awareness as he fails. Best case, he becomes a legitimate NFL quarterback.
umm, rcade, I don't think the comparison of Tebow to Nolan Ryan is applicable at all.
I am not the biggest imbecile on the planet. The comparison wasn't about them as athletes. It was about firing up a struggling fan base.
The Jaguars have the smallest fan base in the NFL and probably draw from the smallest geographic area. They've done better at selling out games since reducing seat capacity and no longer have the blackout problems they once did, but they're still a long way from being secure about avoiding a move.
posted by rcade at 09:15 PM on March 19, 2012
And Tebow going to JAX will mean the Jags are talkeld about frequently exclusively on ESPN. That's something.
That just needed a little fixing.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:00 PM on March 19, 2012
Signing Manning was about the only way Elway and the Denver organization could get Tebow out of town. Any lesser-name quarterback would have pissed off too large a portion of Bronco fans.
If it turns out Manning can't hold up physically to the game any longer, expect those same fans to be very, very angry.
posted by dyams at 06:04 AM on March 20, 2012
Whoever gets Tebow would be better served trying to convert him into a fullback or tight end. He's a hell of an athlete, just not a quarterback.
posted by cabuki at 06:54 AM on March 20, 2012
Tebow does the converting. He doesn't get converted.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:14 AM on March 20, 2012
I am not the biggest imbecile on the planet.
This thread was worth reading, just for that quip.
posted by littleLebowski at 09:42 AM on March 20, 2012
"Tim, we'd like you to try special teams."
"Coach, I've been part of a special team all my life."
posted by beaverboard at 09:56 AM on March 20, 2012
I'm willing to give the experts who think there's something to him the benefit of the doubt.
I started to ask you what 'experts' you're referring to, and what exactly does 'something there' means, but I'm sure you can find 'experts' that believe there's something there, because you don't really have to back up 'something there' with facts and statistics. And I'm sure a few of those experts are more than happy to set themselves up as I Told You So guys. They have nothing to lose by doing so.
Sure, he could prove me (us) wrong. You can say that about almost anything. I don't really believe, however, that there's many legitimate 'experts' that believe Tebow is anywhere close to a quarterback you build a future on. He's just an intriguing guy with 'something there'.
Tim Tebow is a rock star. He brings in the fans, especially in Florida. For purposes of the Jaguars, they need that more than anything else. Whether or not Tebow = wins doesn't matter right away, and the Jags would probably be given a couple of years grace period by the fans.
He became a rockstar based on his religious zeal and a couple of improbable last minute comebacks. If you take away the comebacks, you just have a guy that loves god who has less chances to point at the sky.
I guess for a florida it's a no brainer, but I think the rockstar status is just a fine line away from being a disaster. If it becomes apparent that the emperor has no clothes, that's going to be a rough couple of years.
posted by justgary at 11:32 AM on March 20, 2012
Signing Manning was about the only way Elway and the Denver organization could get Tebow out of town.
I suspect that was a big reason why Elway is willing to gamble the franchise on Peyton Manning's neck. Tebow was clearly never Elway's guy, but his winning streak and incredible playoff win made him hard to remove. "Who will rid me of this meddlesome quarterback?"
posted by rcade at 12:02 PM on March 20, 2012
He became a rockstar based on his religious zeal and a couple of improbable last minute comebacks. If you take away the comebacks, you just have a guy that loves god who has less chances to point at the sky.
Tebow was a rock star before he joined the NFL. He had a spectacular college career.
posted by bperk at 12:37 PM on March 20, 2012
Tebow was a rock star before he joined the NFL. He had a spectacular college career.
Agreed. Gary, I think we get your point that Tebow isn't who Skip Bayless pretends Tebow is, but it's not like the guy is a balloon of empty hype.
posted by yerfatma at 12:54 PM on March 20, 2012
Tebow is a great leader, nice kid, and a very inspiring individual. I hate the fact he is a religious zealot but there can be no doubt he rallied a team and got a tremendous amount of fan support for no other reason than he was the little engine that could against all odds. What's not to like about a kid who hears that much criticism about his skills and still comes in and finds a way to get it done and stay positive. That said, his game really doesn't fit with the pro style of football and no QB can withstand the beating he will take playing football the way he does. NFL teams look for a decade long career at least from a young and developing QB and Tebow is more like a running back with a mediocre arm. He is probably good for a couple of seasons but by the time his QB skills are honed to an acceptable NFL level his body will be finished.
His biggest problem in the NFL is that any team that builds itself around his particular set of skills will be trapped. By the same token, the Bronco offense will be built around Petyon Manning and should Manning have to sit out a game for any reason, how would Tebow be able to come in an even operate that type of offense? Tebow should probably change positions if he wants a career in the NFL or find a team that depends on a running QB although I doubt he could even back up a Michael Vick or Cam Newton because they both have throwing accuracy.
I can see any team really wanting the circus that Tebowmania will bring to their organization and that is probably why the Broncos may just have to release him as a trade could only happen with little return and to a team with absolutely no hope at QB. Denver is well aware he would be more of a distraction even if he was perfectly willing to learn behind Manning, and would offer nothing to an offense geared for Manning if Peyton were to miss a game or two.
Of course I would not be all that surprised if Tebow winds up as a back up on a team like the Niners and he eventually gets a ring just for being faithful. Just how hard will that be for an atheist to take?
I wonder what Denver will do for a backup to Manning. They have a lot of cap money especially if they release Tebow but any reliable back up will not be cheap.
posted by Atheist at 01:26 PM on March 20, 2012
posted by Joey Michaels at 04:50 PM on March 20, 2012
"Getting Tebow has the potential to be like what happened when the Texas Rangers acquired Nolan Ryan."
So he is going to end up as the Jag's GM too?
posted by bigduece at 06:22 PM on March 20, 2012
If it means getting rid of Gene Smith, abso-tebowing-lutely.
posted by rcade at 08:34 PM on March 20, 2012
"Who will rid me of this meddlesome quarterback?"
Heh - makes the history geek in me laugh. After this I can totally see Elway stamping out revolts among the Broncos faithful for the rest of his reign.
posted by deflated at 10:51 PM on March 20, 2012
Tebow was a rock star before he joined the NFL. He had a spectacular college career.
Yeah, I live in florida. I'm well aware of his history. I'd say he was more of an aging rockstar that could only fill small clubs headed towards promoting a number of car dealerships before last season.
I think we get your point that Tebow isn't who Skip Bayless pretends Tebow is, but it's not like the guy is a balloon of empty hype.
Eh, I think I'll go with the balloon of empty hype. At least 75 percent hype. The great thing is we'll find out very soon.
posted by justgary at 07:21 AM on March 21, 2012
Are you saying he wasn't good in college?
posted by yerfatma at 08:24 AM on March 21, 2012
Tebow and the Jets.....let that one sink in a minute.
posted by NerfballPro at 08:25 AM on March 21, 2012
Are you saying he wasn't good in college?
No, all my comments refer to his after college career.
posted by justgary at 08:37 AM on March 21, 2012
Te te te tebow and the Jets.
posted by apoch at 09:10 AM on March 21, 2012
"Tebow and the Jets.....let that one sink in a minute."
I approve this message.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:53 AM on March 21, 2012
How can a second-year NFL player drafted in the first round be an aging rockstar? He was more of a Milli Vanilli at the beginning of last season. And at the end, a Scritti Politti.
If Tebow doesn't help turn around the Broncos season and win a playoff game, would Peyton Manning have even considered Denver as a destination?
posted by rcade at 10:31 AM on March 21, 2012
If Tebow doesn't help turn around the Broncos season and win a playoff game, would Peyton Manning have even considered Denver as a destination?
It depends.
If the defense showed that it was as strong as it was at the end (except for when the Patriots lit them on fire in the 2nd round of the playoffs), and the team lost only because the QB couldn't engineer any drives, then maybe Manning sees that situation and realizes that even an average offense would have made the team very strong.
posted by grum@work at 11:07 AM on March 21, 2012
Plus, the Broncos are in the AFC West. They made it into the playoffs with an 8-8 record. Manning doesn't have to think he is Superman to believe that he has a great chance to make it to the playoffs every year.
posted by bperk at 11:15 AM on March 21, 2012
"If Tebow doesn't help turn around the Broncos season and win a playoff game, would Peyton Manning have even considered Denver as a destination?"
No, because without Tebow the Broncos never win another game of football, ever, end up with the #1 overall pick instead of the Colts, take Luck and Peyton stays in Indy.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 11:22 AM on March 21, 2012
If Manning was willing to pick a team because of how weak the conference is, I think Houston's a better choice than Denver.
posted by rcade at 11:35 AM on March 21, 2012
From twitter this morning.
posted by tommybiden at 12:04 PM on March 21, 2012
posted by Mr Bismarck at 12:43 PM on March 21, 2012
Te te te tebow and the Jets.
Apoch called it. Just saw a tweet back to back with one saying that Sean Payton is suspended for a year!
posted by tron7 at 12:56 PM on March 21, 2012
Sean Payton is suspended for a year!
That's shocking! I didn't think the NFL would really take it that seriously. As a fan, I'm happy they did.
posted by bperk at 12:59 PM on March 21, 2012
If Tebow doesn't help turn around the Broncos season and win a playoff game, would Peyton Manning have even considered Denver as a destination
I think it depends how much Manning believes Tebow was responsible for turning the broncos around. I'm guessing he sees a defense that got better and a little luck involved.
I don't understand how people ignore Tebow's statistics. He's either going to have to improve dramatically, or he's going to be the first terrible quarterback that masters the 'will yourself to victory despite awful stats' method.
posted by justgary at 02:04 PM on March 21, 2012
I don't understand how people ignore Tebow's statistics.
The same way you ignore Blaine Gabbert's statistics or Sam Bradford's statistics or any other first-round quarterback who's trotted out on shaky fawn legs his first season. Tebow was 8-5 as a starter and won a playoff game. It's not that hard to look at that and see upside.
posted by rcade at 02:20 PM on March 21, 2012
Tebow's team was 8-5 as a starter and won a playoff game.
As statistics go for measuring ability, QB wins are even sillier than baseball pitcher wins.
posted by grum@work at 03:46 PM on March 21, 2012
I couldn't agree less. Wins matter for pitchers and quarterbacks because so much of the game rests in their hands. I'd rather have the Rangers go into the postseason with two 20-game winners than two 12-game winners with better numbers. They would still lose the World Series, of course.
posted by rcade at 04:08 PM on March 21, 2012
Wins don't matter for pitchers and quarterbacks because so much less than half of the game rests in their hands.
(Sorry, I'll stop that now.)
Just a quick reminder:
Nolan Ryan, in 1987, led the league in ERA and strikeouts, was 3rd in WHIP, and finished in the top 10 in innings pitched. His "record" was 8-16.
On the same team, Jim Deshaies went 11-6 and had an ERA almost 2 runs worse than Ryan.
Dan Marino, in 1986, led the league in completions, attempts, passing yards, touchdowns, passing yards per game, and had a QB rating that was 0.1 less than the league leader (92.5). His "record" was 8-8.
Mike Tomzcak finished 7-0 as a starting QB for the Chicago Bears that year. He had a QB rating of 50.2, threw 2 TDs and 10 interceptions, and completed less than half his passes.
posted by grum@work at 04:38 PM on March 21, 2012
I'd rather have the Rangers go into the postseason with two 20-game winners than two 12-game winners with better numbers
Why?
posted by yerfatma at 05:03 PM on March 21, 2012
Just a quick reminder ...
I didn't say quarterbacks and pitchers were the *only* reason their teams won.
posted by rcade at 05:45 PM on March 21, 2012
Tebow was 8-5 as a starter and won a playoff game. It's not that hard to look at that and see upside.
Looking at every other stat that has Tebow's name on it, yes, it's difficult to look at wins and see much of an upside.
Honestly, this is where we agree to disagree and I just favorite grums comment.
posted by justgary at 06:08 PM on March 21, 2012
Gary: Keep in mind what the Jaguars are banking their future on at quarterback. If you think Blaine Gabbert is an upgrade over Tim Tebow at quarterback, on what basis do you make that determination?
posted by rcade at 06:25 PM on March 21, 2012
So what do you do if you're a huge Broncos fan, but hate Peyton Manning? One fan's answer.
posted by NerfballPro at 01:16 AM on March 22, 2012
I didn't say quarterbacks and pitchers were the *only* reason their teams won.
No, but you did say you "couldn't agree less" that pitcher wins and QB wins were (to paraphrase) a silly way for measuring ability.
I just gave two quick examples where QB/pitcher wins were a silly way to measure ability, as it was very obvious that the QB/pitcher with the more wins (or better winning percentage) was not the better QB/pitcher.
posted by grum@work at 01:42 AM on March 22, 2012
Looks like Manning Watch is over. Now for the garment rending over Tebow.