11/21/24
January 24, 2011
Cutler tore MCL vs. Packers: Chicago quarterback Jay Cutler suffered a torn medial collateral ligament (MCL) in his left knee during the Bears' 21-14 loss to the Packers in the NFC Championship Game, the Chicago Sun-Times reported.
And imagine the response he'd be getting if he had come back in, couldn't plant the leg and started throwing interceptions.
posted by kokaku at 02:07 PM on January 24, 2011
But, but, but ... he was standing on the sidelines!!! It's not as if standing vs. planting to throw and/or moving laterally require use of different structural components of one's knee/leg. And his demeanor on the sideline sucked, too, so clearly he was okay to come back in and/or not sufficiently upset about not being able to play.
posted by holden at 02:20 PM on January 24, 2011
I love the city of Chicago and most every person I've met who lives there, so it pains me to write "Stay classy, Chicago."
posted by Joey Michaels at 02:21 PM on January 24, 2011
I love the city of Chicago and most every person I've met who lives there, so it pains me to write "Stay classy, Chicago."
Not getting defensive because I am a Chicagoan (I'm not even a Bears fan, although I did want them to win yesterday), but of course you will find talk radio call-in idiots in every major market (although the burning of the jerseys was definitely beyond the norm of boorish behavior). And, based on the tweets quoted in the other thread, the criticism of Cutler was by no means limited to folks from Chicago.
posted by holden at 02:23 PM on January 24, 2011
I love the city of Chicago and most every person I've met who lives there, so it pains me to write "Stay classy, Chicago."
I am also from Chicago and I agree. If people want to rag on Cutler, they should get on him for being ineffective while he was healthy. Everyone wants their QB to be Brett Favre and play with one arm on one leg. I agree with kokaku -- Cutler would have been even more worthless. He wasn't getting the job done. At least Caleb Hanie played with some energy and purpose.
posted by bluesdog at 02:34 PM on January 24, 2011
Yahoo Sports is reporting that Cutler didn't tear his MCL, only that he sprained it.
I think that it's silly to rag on Cutler for not playing most of the 2nd half, since the Bears were lucky to be in the game in the 2nd half, because no one on that squad showed up in the 1st half. They were fortunate not to be down 24-0 at halftime.
I guess if Cutler had his knee packed in ice or was hobbling up and down the sidelines "rah-rahing" his teammates, the Bears would have won.
posted by MrNix67 at 03:26 PM on January 24, 2011
Another source is reporting only a sprain....
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Jay-Cutler-sprained-knee-ligament-MCL-in-Bears-loss-to-Packers-012411
posted by katman0625 at 03:28 PM on January 24, 2011
Yahoo Sports is reporting that Cutler didn\'t tear his MCL, only that he sprained it.
A tear of the MCL is called a sprain. A first degree is no tearing. A third degree is tearing with instability. He was injured. People need to leave this alone because they keep looking worse and worse when they question the seriousness of his injury.
posted by bperk at 03:35 PM on January 24, 2011
Sprain, tear, whatever. (Though I do appreciate what bperk is saying here) The thing is, it wasn't even Cutler's decision to stay in or come out of the game; that call was made by the coaching staff. If he'd REALLY hurt himself by staying in, we'd be roasting Lovie Smith and the other assistants over an open flame right now. Plus, Cutler's teammates have his back on this, too.
So yeah, questioning the injury and Cutler's heart....the more this goes on, the more those people look like idiots. Me, I'll give the Bears credit: they kept the game close right up until the end with a third string QB in a conference championship.
posted by NerfballPro at 03:53 PM on January 24, 2011
I am not going to question Cutler's decision to come out of the game. Its his body etc. But I will say this guy is known for being a baby, throwing tantrums, and blaming everybody else when he does not perform. The fact is the back up QB played better then he did, even before he was hurt. Of course the fact that Chicago could not score with him as the QB or that Chicago lost the game really had a lot more to do with the overall quality of the team than Jay Cutler having a terrible game. Actually Aaron Rogers had a bad game also but of course the better team was able to win even when the QB did not play well.
posted by Atheist at 03:55 PM on January 24, 2011
Cutler earns an unlikely defender.
posted by tron7 at 04:05 PM on January 24, 2011
But I will say this guy is known for being a baby, throwing tantrums, and blaming everybody else when he does not perform.
Do you mean on the field? When has he done that?
posted by bperk at 04:25 PM on January 24, 2011
The Bears have turned into "that team" with a lot of potential that will find a way to fuck things up in the playoffs. That was not a good game, that was not a close game, they got told to get their fucking shine box by the Packers, and they did. It was like they had no offensive game plan. Total paralysis. Sitting on the edge of my seat hoping for a Hester return or an interception.
How do you throw a pick six to the fattest, most immobile human being on the field? Who is the dipshit that called the timeout with 1 minute left in the 4th, killing what looked like an unbelievable run down the middle? Mike Martz should get the hell out of Chicago.
And somebody please tell me why in God's name did Jim Cornelison sing the anthem two games in a row, are you *trying* to jinx the home team? Cutler makes me want to throw up, he is such a lateral move from Grossman, it is unbelievable. As far as I'm concerned, the first half ended with Cutler completing a short-yard pass to Forte and then following it with a forced clown bomb to one of the best cornerbacks in the league. He should not have thrown that ball. Stay in the game, and complete short passes. And Todd Collins looks like he's on heroin. Mike Martz should get the hell out of Chicago.
God I really needed to let that out.
posted by phaedon at 04:48 PM on January 24, 2011
A tear of the MCL is called a sprain. A first degree is no tearing. A third degree is tearing with instability. He was injured.
Thanks for the medical definitions, bperk.
But I will say this guy is known for being a baby, throwing tantrums, and blaming everybody else when he does not perform.
He certainly didn't act that way yesterday. Cutler seemed almost catatonic on the sideline, completely devoid of emotion. Most recent complaints I've heard of Cutler is that he's standoffish and not a "leader". He may or may not be a top-level QB (I don't think he is), but I think he's shown toughness in the past and was hurt enough to not be effective yesterday.
As to the thought of, Stay in the game, and complete short passes.
If he could (I think in the 1st series in the 3rd Quarter, he threw a short pass to Forte that was straight into the ground) move and throw accurately, then he should play, but there's no evidence he could.
posted by MrNix67 at 05:42 PM on January 24, 2011
Before Cutler went out, my Bears-fanatic uncle kept talking about how he was throwing weakly off his back foot. A left knee injury in a right-handed quarterback would certainly explain that. Anyone else notice it?
posted by rcade at 08:03 PM on January 24, 2011
Maurice Jones-Drew was just kidding when he tweeted all those mean things about Cutler.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:27 PM on January 24, 2011
Not that I'm saying it wasn't an injury that warranted him sitting, I still say the fact that the MRI confirmed an injury doesn't really address the comments about him not playing through it. The lightest grade sprain/tear could only require him to sit out a week in normal circumstances ( not like his knee was blown) and there have been players that have mcl tears of that low-grade nature that didn't come out(not that his falls in that area...who knows). My point is I fully expected the MRI to show an injury...I'm sure if Sanchez was looking for an excuse, you could do an MRI on his shoulder showing damage. Ben has a stress fracture in his foot. All these guys could point to an MRI that would justify them sitting out. That's sort of the point.
Again, not saying it to mean he wimped out, just that the MRI results don't necessarily confirm the tweeters were wrong.
posted by bdaddy at 09:00 PM on January 24, 2011
"I never questioned his toughness. I think people took my joke out of context. I was taking at shot at Florida fans." MJD.
Uh, why? Jackass.
posted by tselson at 11:06 PM on January 24, 2011
there have been players that have mcl tears of that low-grade nature that didn't come out(not that his falls in that area...who knows)
Actually was just reminded that rivers had an acl tear in a championship game and stayed in. I think that's the sort of comparisons these NFL tweeters are making
posted by bdaddy at 11:19 PM on January 24, 2011
I already gave my opinion here, but...
I am not going to question Cutler's decision to come out of the game.
So you admit this statement is nonsense?
If his knee was so bad why did he stand on the sidelines?
The key part of Rivers comments:
"That doesn't mean I'd be right. If they knew he couldn't throw the ball good, he wasn't helping anybody ... I'll never say what he should have done. I can't even say what I would have done in the same position. I do know I'm not coming out unless I can't do anything, and maybe that's how it was (for Cutler)."
He was injured, and can't compare one injury to another with any degree of certainty on the effect on the player.
But people hate to admit they're wrong and often stick with their initial opinion ("I knew he'd have an injury"), so Cutler might as well ignore them.
posted by justgary at 12:15 AM on January 25, 2011
I think that's the sort of comparisons these NFL tweeters are making
You're giving them too much credit. They were a bunch of idiots talking off the cuff before even knowing his condition. Much like several commenters did here.
posted by justgary at 12:17 AM on January 25, 2011
Well that's a nice big FUCK YOU to all those stupid asses bitching about him leaving the game.
Let's tear their MCL's then make them go play football. We'll see who the pussies are then...
posted by Drood at 12:55 AM on January 25, 2011
"I never questioned his toughness. I think people took my joke out of context. I was taking at shot at Florida fans." MJD.
Seems like an odd coincidence then. And as for Meyer quitting when the going got tough, didn't he step down because he'd had a heart attack or something?
posted by yerfatma at 08:02 AM on January 25, 2011
... I still say the fact that the MRI confirmed an injury doesn't really address the comments about him not playing through it.
I listened to a sports doctor discuss this for 15 minutes on local radio. Cutler and the doctors would have known Sunday there was an MCL tear but could not have known its severity. Playing on a severe tear could tear the ACL too and turn a quick-recovery injury into a much more serious one.
The protocol in that situation is generally for the player to see how much he can do on the knee and whether he can continue. Cutler did that by riding the bike to keep his knee loose and going back in the game.
Players and fans who are still hanging on to the notion that Cutler quit on his team need to get over themselves. It's OK to admit you were wrong every once in a while.
posted by rcade at 09:02 AM on January 25, 2011
The better team won the game, regardless of the Cutler issue. With or without this current injury issue, there will continue to be questions regarding his attitude, and whether he is actually capable of carrying the Bears (or any team) on his shoulders.
I'm not in a position to question a injury or the physical toughness of any NFL player, but the fact other players, or former players, are questioning this seems to say something. Not being a Brett Favre fan myself, this is still a situation that makes me wonder how he could play as many consecutive games in the league, and keep coming back or staying on the field when you know he played through (what had to be) fairly substantial injuries. Trent Dilfer seemed to get at the fact when it's the Super Bowl on the line, if a player can stand up, they will generally fight to get on the field.
posted by dyams at 09:47 AM on January 25, 2011
Local radio here brought up the 92 AFC Championship game in which Elway left the game late with a deep thigh bruise and few questioned his toughness. I think the opinions you are seeing are reactions to Cutler's persona. He's easy to hate. It just fits the narrative so well that he would come out of the game because he just wasn't tough enough, mentally or physically.
posted by tron7 at 10:36 AM on January 25, 2011
Whatever. As long as the Bears 'aint playing in the Stupor Bowls I'm OK.
I know it means a lot to all of you that I am OK.
posted by THX-1138 at 06:03 PM on January 25, 2011
Jay Cutler took the stairs to dinner after NFC championship game
posted by phaedon at 10:37 PM on January 25, 2011
Can we please quit beating this goddamn horse to death. Cutler was injured, this much is true. It was a Grade 2 sprain - sounds pretty bad, especially for a mobile quarterback that hasn't had an O line for 2 years. This whole " he shoulda sucked it up and played" bullshit is just assinine, macho garbage spewed by either those who don't know any better, or those looking to satisfy their own sense of manhood. As much as a beating this guy has taken over the past two years, does anyone with half a brain really think he "whimped out" during the NFC Championship Game?
And I'm deeply embarrased that so much of this criticism has come from so-called Bears fans. The Bears haven't had a quarterback with the level of talent that Cutler possesses in at least my lifetime (38 years). I can only hope this criticism comes from bandwagoners just catching on, but my head tells me better.
posted by willthrill72 at 11:48 PM on January 25, 2011
And I'm deeply embarrased that so much of this criticism has come from so-called Bears fans.
Yeah, ok Dad. We are soo sorry we disappointed you.
Listen. To me the way this looks, you practically can't deny that Cutler physically could have kept playing. You can't point to a specific play that injured him; he might've even come into the game with that injury.
He takes himself out of the game after a bad drive. He is probably saying to the coaching staff, "I can't throw the ball. I'm no good. Take me out of the game. We need to win this and I'm not going to get you there." Not totally unreasonable given the shit performance he was turning in up to that point.
But. You can't deny that Cutler could have kept playing. He walked off the field, on the sidelines, and out the tunnel without a limp.
I understand the league is making a big push to protect its players, it's "defenseless receivers" for example, under the guise of preventing death or life-long injury. And you know what, in spirit, Cutler falls under this heading, and he ought to protect himself. It is kind of crazy that all these meatheads ripped him a new asshole. But hey, welcome to Twitter. In fact, welcome to the internet. When is "somebody said some crazy shit on Twitter!" going to stop being a news story.
But Cutler could've kept playing. You can tell me what the smart thing to do is all day long, but fans from Chicago have the right to be upset. Cutler took himself out of the game when his city needed him the most. And I understand that kind of pressure is abnormal, foolish even, but it is under this type of pressure that champions are born. It is why people tune in. And the losers ought to go down fighting. Bread and circuses at its finest.
posted by phaedon at 01:51 AM on January 26, 2011
Yeah, ok Dad. We are soo sorry we disappointed you.
You can make your point without being a sarcastic asshole. And until you can show me your degree in orthapedic medicine, making statements that Cutler could've kept playing is ignorant and uninformed. From everything I have read and heard, with this type of injury, his lateral movement was greatly impaired and there was a possibility of doing even further damage to his knee had he continued playing. So, yeah, I can deny that he could have continued. Your argument is meatballish. Or maybe just juvenile.
posted by willthrill72 at 03:10 AM on January 26, 2011
let me just reiterate that I am in agreement - that dude QUIT.
Yeah, if you ignore all the of Cutler's history of playing through injuries, and believe all the Bears are liars and inexplicably providing cover for a quitter, and also ignore the video evidence that he wasn't planting his foot, then your opinion might be reasonable. But, what kind of person would let facts stop him from believing whatever he wanted?
posted by bperk at 06:00 AM on January 26, 2011
Steve Bartman and Jay Cutler should become roommates.
posted by rcade at 08:39 AM on January 26, 2011
and also ignore the video evidence that he wasn't planting his foot
Yeah? I haven't seen this. Anyway, I thought it was his left knee which wouldn't need much of a plant to throw.
I can see why people would think he quit. The body language showed me a quarterback that just didn't want to be there. Then he just leaves the game without much explanation. They say he's hurt but they don't show him on the sidelines dropping back and testing the knee or working with the medical staff to see if he could still go. They do show you Cutler on the sideline looking disinterested and demoralized. He probably talked to the staff and tested it out at halftime but we didn't get to see that. And really, Cutler's default look is that of disinterest but it just looked bad. Even after you hear what the injury is it still seems like odd behavior.
posted by tron7 at 11:25 AM on January 26, 2011
I thought it was his left knee which wouldn't need much of a plant to throw.
We're not discussing Brett Farve here. Most competent quarterbacks shift almost all of their weight to their front foot to throw.
posted by tahoemoj at 12:25 PM on January 26, 2011
There's almost no point in participating in this thread after my smackdown of willthrill72, sitting in his Lazyboy in Rockford calling people sarcastic assholes, got deleted. Proof enough that getting involved in an argument with you fine, fine gentlemen can on occasion be a complete waste of my time.
Suffice to say, some of you Cutler apologists are really overly-smug. You all apparently "know the facts" and "read and hear" all the right stories. The TV coverage didn't quite get it right, Cutler's didn't play up his injury... apparently the entire visual medium is all of a sudden questionable, we must suspend our beliefs because Cutler says he's hurt and can't play.
And just to reiterate my point, you can't point to a play in which Cutler was injured. And you can't definitively say he didn't have that injury going into the game. Ergo, the existence of an injury does not in and of itself prove that he did not quit.
Time will tell who wins this one. If I'm wrong, Cutler will bounce back. If I'm right, he moves in the off-season or gets destroyed in the playoffs next year, if they're lucky to make it that far.
posted by phaedon at 12:48 PM on January 26, 2011
Players and fans who are still hanging on to the notion that Cutler quit on his team need to get over themselves. It's OK to admit you were wrong every once in a while.
posted by rcade
Eh, for the most part admitting you're wrong in sports isn't done. That's why is sucks for cutler. It doesn't matter if it's shown he has an injury, it doesn't matter if players now support him, it doesn't matter if it was the coaches that took him out, it doesn't matter if doctors say it would have been dangerous for him to return, it doesn't matter if he's taken beatings in the past. What matters is he looked fine. There was no blood. So he's a quitter. You can't fight ignorance. Nothing will change those minds.
I'm not in a position to question a injury or the physical toughness of any NFL player, but the fact other players, or former players, are questioning this seems to say something.
posted by dyams
A couple of players went off like idiots. They're now claiming they were taken out of context, or backing down, or claiming the don't care what the facts are, they have a right to their opinion. Just because they're players doesn't mean they know the extent of his injury, or what his knee felt like.
Twitter (and don't you hate twitter dyams?) just showed that players, like a lot of fans, will spew crap and talk out of their ass about stuff they know nothing about when given the opportunity.
That's what it says. Nothing more. Proof of nothing.
posted by justgary at 01:00 PM on January 26, 2011
Twitter (and don't you hate twitter dyams?) just showed that players, like a lot of fans, will spew crap and talk out of their ass about stuff they know nothing about when given the opportunity.
I absolutely don't like Twitter. MJD's Tweet (god, I hate that phrase) is a perfect example, because he has ample opportunity to backtrack on that comment, and it's impossible to see or hear any emotion, conviction or animation he puts into those comments.
The example I point to most is the opinion Trent Dilfer delivered on camera. And I'm not saying what he says, especially in this instance, has any bearing on the actual truth (whatever that may be). But as a former quarterback in the NFL, it seems he wouldn't be so animated with his comments if he had no knowledge of the issues Cutler was likely facing when deciding if he was going to return to the field. What I took from his comments were, in that big a game, a quarterback would have to be taken off on a stretcher to not want to attempt a return. The fact Cutler could walk, stand around, etc. didn't seem to point to the fact he couldn't have given it a try. If he had tried it and shown, beyond a doubt, he couldn't play at all, then that would have been that. But, like the Philip Rivers example, he (Rivers) comes across like a guy who would practically cut off one of his legs to return, regardless of pain, future problems, and the like.
If things had been going great to that point in the game for Cutler, I'm wondering if he'd have stayed out of the game. No way of knowing. But just as it's impossible for any of us to know how much pain Cutler was in, it's also a bit naive to not take into account what may or may not have been going on in his head. Cutler has given people reason to have to consider that (his attitude) in the past.
posted by dyams at 02:18 PM on January 26, 2011
The example I point to most is the opinion Trent Dilfer delivered on camera
You have to take what Dilfer says about Cutler with a grain of salt. For whatever reason, Dilfer has been ripping the Bears and Cutler all season - to the point where one has to wonder if it was personal for some reason. He had said so many times that the Bears and Culter were so bad, that when they went on a 7-1 run after the bye, he still couldn't find anything good to say when confronted with his earlier critiques. He was on Chicago radio time and time again condemning the team and its quarterback, and when confronted with reason and logic from the hosts (some of who were former players), he would become more defensive and agitated. I don't know if Cutler hit on his wife or the Bears passed on him in free agency or draft, but he had become laughable with his obvious bias and vitriol. I am one to believe as your argument gets louder and louder, the less defensible your position is.
posted by willthrill72 at 03:28 PM on January 26, 2011
But as a former quarterback in the NFL, it seems he wouldn't be so animated with his comments if he had no knowledge of the issues Cutler was likely facing when deciding if he was going to return to the field.
Every time I see Dilfer on tv I want to throw something. If he has particular insight into the game of football, it was not obvious when he was playing.
Signed,
Bitter Bucs fan
posted by bperk at 04:02 PM on January 26, 2011
***Derail*** I bought a round of golf for a foursome that included Dilfer at Montreaux, home of the Reno-Tahoe Open, at a charity auction about ten years ago. Three years ago, when it became apparent that he had no intention of honoring his commitment, I was forced to ask for my money back from the charity. So screw him, as far as I'm concerned. Not sure he should be questioning anyone's dedication to anything. ***End derail***
posted by tahoemoj at 05:49 PM on January 26, 2011
That seemed as relevant as any of the last few comments and more insightful than any of the tweets that led to the original discussion.
posted by bender at 06:47 PM on January 26, 2011
I just listened to the Dan Patrick show, hour 2, and he, Dan, said Cutler went out with his girlfriend to a steakhouse in Chicago after the game and he "walked up the steps rather than taking the elevator to the second floor." The source was not mentioned but, if true, how stupid is Cutler, if this is a fact? I have to question his future in any locker room as any kind of leader.
posted by gfinsf at 08:02 AM on January 27, 2011
In hindsight, it was also a mistake for Cutler to use the sideline phone during the fourth quarter to sign up for the next season of Dancing with the Stars.
posted by rcade at 08:12 AM on January 27, 2011
I read something about that walking up the stairs bit. Apparently he and 11 friends went to some steakhouse, he walked up the stairs and didn't limp. The writer was amazed not that Cutler could make it up the stairs with barely a limp, but that he had 11 friends in Chicago.
posted by fabulon7 at 10:45 AM on January 27, 2011
"Man, I just never thought that his tampon would fall out on national TV." -- former Green Bay Packer (and current sexist) Greg Koch
posted by rcade at 11:12 AM on January 27, 2011
posted by phaedon at 06:52 AM on January 29, 2011
So should he have still come back in and played? Anyone who thinks that ANY NFL player would not come back into the the NFC Championship game if he was at all capable is crazy. This is what these guys live for and play a career for. Chicago fans that think he "looked ok" are idiots.