11/21/24
August 30, 2010
Manny Ramirez Ejected After Seeing One Pitch: The final act of Manny Ramirez's Los Angeles Dodgers career was to be ejected one pitch into a pinch hit appearance with the bases loaded. Ramirez argued balls and strikes with plate umpire Gary Cederstrom. Manager Joe Torre, after yelling at Ramirez, "came back in and apologized" later. "I'm totally disappointed in the way Cederstrom reacted," he said. Ramirez is headed to the Chicago White Sox.
That about sums up Manny's contribution to the Dodgers- leave em hanging when they need him most.
posted by irunfromclones at 08:26 PM on August 30, 2010
As Ann Landers always says, "If he did it to her, he'll do it to you."
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:30 PM on August 30, 2010
That about sums up Manny's contribution to the Dodgers- leave em hanging when they need him most.
Huh?
.322/.433/.580
Those are his numbers as Dodger in the regular season.
.391/.500/.783
Those are his numbers as a Dodger in two playoff division series.
.382/.500/.706
Those are his numbers as a Dodger in two playoff league championship series.
But I guess that doesn't fit the silly sportswriter narrative of Ramirez being "lazy" and a detriment to the team.
Ramirez argued balls and strikes with plate umpire Gary Cederstrom.
He didn't swear (confirmed by Ramirez AND the ump) and got tossed.
What the article doesn't mention is that the previous half-inning the Dodgers' dugout had been riding the home plate umpire.
Just like the Ryan Howard ejection from a week ago, the player wasn't ejected for his actions, but because of some slight the umpire felt required retaliation.
We've seen players like Youkilis, O'Neill, and other who have been far more demonstrative to umpires and had nothing happen.
posted by grum@work at 09:44 PM on August 30, 2010
That about sums up Manny's contribution to the Dodgers- leave em hanging when they need him most.
Ummm... Manny Ramirez has been an absolute monster for LA, particularly in the post-season when 'they need him most'.
posted by DudeDykstra at 09:58 PM on August 30, 2010
That about sums up Manny's contribution to the Dodgers- leave em hanging when they need him most.
Ummm... Manny Ramirez has been an absolute monster for LA, particularly in the post-season when 'they need him most'.
I'm not puttin' words in irunfromclones' mouth, but I'm guessing it's simply a reference to the game situation - 1 out, bases loaded. Not the best time to be pushing an ump's buttons on balls and strikes.
All I can do at this one is shrug my shoulders. On one hand, Manny should be able to recognize the situation and keep his trap shut, regardless of the lack of profanity. You rarely see a batter argue a strike 1 call. Yeah, they might step out of the box and/or shake their head while looking away, but not turn around and argue. On the other hand, seems like the ump was definitely a little touchy and hot-head-y. On the third hand, while I doubt Manny was intentionally getting tossed, he has a history of phoning it in.
posted by littleLebowski at 08:36 AM on August 31, 2010
He didn't swear (confirmed by Ramirez AND the ump) and got tossed.
he argued balls and strikes, in a way that lets everyone know that's what he was doing...that ALWAYS gets you tossed. There's ways to do it that won't get you tossed (i.e. make comments to him while looking at the pitcher). But when you step out of the box, turn around, and start complaining about balls/strikes you WILL get tossed. I'm surprised anybody is surprised he got tossed...very few do what he did and don't get tossed.
posted by bdaddy at 09:21 AM on August 31, 2010
leave em hanging when they need him most
Um, the article is about Manny ... not Alex Rodriguez.
Manny's a character, but his stats and performances in big games cements his reputation as one of the best clutch hitters of all time.
posted by cixelsyd at 09:30 AM on August 31, 2010
What Bdaddy said. I don't like umps to have a quick hook, but was anyone surprised that Manny got the hook after turning to face Cederstrom while yelling at him? Players know what happens when they do that.
posted by rcade at 09:46 AM on August 31, 2010
leave em hanging when they need him most
Um, the article is about Manny ... not Alex Rodriguez.
Nobody has ever debated Manny's ability to hit. It's practically every other aspect of his game, including between the ears, that either sucks or eventually turns to shit. Baseball is more than just hitting the ball, and for that reason your comment linking Manny with Rodriguez, even though I'm sure you did it for laughs, is ridiculous.
Ramirez knew he was going to get thrown out of the game in this situation, and did it anyways, even though the bases were loaded. After the crap he pulled to get sent out of Boston, him doing this when he knew he was leaving L.A. seems to be another instance of him making a spectacle of himself.
posted by dyams at 11:30 AM on August 31, 2010
leave em hanging when they need him most
Um, the article is about Manny ... not Alex Rodriguez
I could've sworn that A-Rod won a World Series ring with the Yankees after having a monster post season.
posted by BornIcon at 12:35 PM on August 31, 2010
manny has the Mel Gibson -"i did something of value in the past, so i can be as big an ass as i want now" outlook on life.
no one needs people like this.
posted by wowjimi at 04:55 PM on August 31, 2010
manny has the Mel Gibson -"i did something of value in the past, so i can be as big an ass as i want now" outlook on life.
no one needs people like this.
How far in "the past" are you going?
Less than a year?
Because he's still killing the ball, even this year.
Almost 10,000 plate appearances into his career, and he's still around 1.000 OPS.
I'm pretty sure Red Sox fans and teammates needed "people like this" in 2004 and 2007.
posted by grum@work at 09:13 PM on August 31, 2010
You don't think getting himself tossed while still batting with the bases loaded is leaving the team and fans hanging when they needed him most? even a base hit from this buffoon would have mattered. Instead, all he can think about is himself and living up to his name of saying fuck you to team and fans on the way out the door.
It takes more than stats to me to be a good baseball player, but then I'm old school.
posted by irunfromclones at 09:46 PM on August 31, 2010
I was going to make a joke about whether Manny would need a translator... but he did! And apparently the White Sox do have someone who speaks English, Spanish AND Manny.
posted by scully at 09:06 AM on September 01, 2010
even a base hit from this buffoon would have mattered.
A base hit would have changed the score from 8-2 to 8-4. Big difference! The team scored only 3 more runs the rest of the game. They weren't going to win it.
Instead, all he can think about is himself and living up to his name of saying fuck you to team and fans on the way out the door.
Actually, he was probably thinking that the umpire was going to fuck with his at-bat by giving the pitcher a strike zone the size of Montana, and that if he didn't complain about it right away, he was going to quickly strike out looking on a bad pitch.
Which, I assume, the Manny-haters would be proof that he was thinking of himself and was saying fuck you to his team and fans on the way out the door.
Ramirez actually helped the team more than the guy that replaced him in the at-bat, as Reed Johnson killed the rally with a double-play to end the inning.
It takes more than stats to me to be a good baseball player, but then I'm old school.
I always laugh at statements like that, like "old school" players were always "team first", and that stats didn't matter.
Show me a "good baseball player" (compared to the rest of the league) with crappy stats.
posted by grum@work at 10:46 AM on September 01, 2010
I was going to make a joke about whether Manny would need a translator... but he did!
What was up with the press conference he did in Spanish with Cora translating? Publicity stunt? Outreach to the Hispanic community? Cry for help? I'm no Manny hater, but I do find that some of his actions make me scratch my head.
posted by tahoemoj at 10:55 AM on September 01, 2010
I always laugh at statements like that, like "old school" players were always "team first", and that stats didn't matter.
I think this statement speaks to the idea of the all-time greats from the past, not of all "old school" players. People are so quick to throw Manny into the category of fantastic players based only on his hitting stats. By "old school" I think irunfromclones is only saying old school thought speaks to a guy who can hit, field, and isn't a total jerk when things don't meet with his liking. The crap Manny pulled when he was on his way out of Boston will always stick in people's minds, and he'll never get the benefit of the doubt in instances like his ejection last week. As for other aspects of his game, putting up stats at the plate is admirable, but when the guy is a loafer and a liability in the field and doesn't hustle except when he feels compelled to do so, those actions mean someone else in the lineup, or field, have to do twice as much to compensate for him. Does a struggling team (like the Dodgers this year) feel confident with a slug like Manny standing in left field, not knowing when he'll jog after a hit down the line, let a ball pop out of his glove, or let a runner take a extra base on him? When the guy is geared in at the plate, he's fantastic to watch, but I don't support a professional baseball player who refuses to accept the responsibility to concentrate on all aspects of the game. I only wish teams in the major leagues would feel the same way, but there will always be a team to take a guy like Manny in with open arms, then wait for the implosion.
posted by dyams at 11:39 AM on September 01, 2010
What was up with the press conference he did in Spanish with Cora translating? Publicity stunt? Outreach to the Hispanic community? Cry for help? I'm no Manny hater, but I do find that some of his actions make me scratch my head.
Isn't he from Washington Heights?
posted by bperk at 12:12 PM on September 01, 2010
The crap Manny pulled when he was on his way out of Boston will always stick in people's minds, and he'll never get the benefit of the doubt in instances like his ejection last week.
What "crap"?
Please tell me you don't think he "tanked", like most Boston fans have been brainwashed to believe.
He batted .347/.473/.587 for the month of July in 2008 (his last month in Boston).
I think this statement speaks to the idea of the all-time greats from the past, not of all "old school" players.
Like Ted Williams?
posted by grum@work at 12:25 PM on September 01, 2010
Isn't he from Washington Heights?
So what are you trying to say?
posted by BornIcon at 02:00 PM on September 01, 2010
This is the real Manny; "Manny's first day with White Sox is a cartoon". If you can read that and still think Manny is a great guy and a great baseball player then I think you need your head andor values examined.
The only reason he he likes baseball is "because I'm good at it and you can make some money playing the game."
Baseball isn't about playing baseball anymore, it's just about the money. Stats only matter because they help you to negotiate a bigger contract. I don't mind players being paid what they are worth, although I do think $ 23,854,494 a year for playing baseball is ridiculous.
I just think that the game has lost something when all players can think about is the money and all fans can think about are the stats. If that's baseball to you then knock yourselves out. Me? I haven't watched a professional baseball game since the strike year when they didn't play a World Series. A world war didn't stop the World Series but a dollar did.
posted by irunfromclones at 02:35 PM on September 01, 2010
What was up with the press conference he did in Spanish with Cora translating? Publicity stunt? Outreach to the Hispanic community? Cry for help? I'm no Manny hater, but I do find that some of his actions make me scratch my head.
You have heard the phrase "Manny being Manny", yes? Granted, I don't have to deal with him personally, but I thought it was pretty hilarious.
posted by MKUltra at 02:51 PM on September 01, 2010
What "crap"? Please tell me you don't think he "tanked", like most Boston fans have been brainwashed to believe.
If you want to consider me "brainwashed," then go right ahead. It stands to reason anyone who has ever had to manage Manny Ramirez has to constantly deal with his attitude, wherever that may go on a given day. Manny not playing in games, announcing he wouldn't play to the manager, having his knees checked by doctors (and being given a clean bill of health), and then not running when he did play? I'm assuming even Francona and Epstein were "brainwashed" by the guy too. And it accomplished his goal of getting him out of Boston, so the guy does know how to get what he wants.
I really don't think Manny putting up huge hitting stats is ever an issue. The guy can flat-out hit. It's just the potential of not knowing what his attitude will be at any given time, and how he's going to react when he doesn't want to play.
posted by dyams at 03:20 PM on September 01, 2010
The only reason he he likes baseball is "because I'm good at it and you can make some money playing the game."
I don't see what the problem is. If you're good at any sport, everyone knows that you're more than likely going to make millions. No surprise there, Manny just admits it.
Baseball isn't about playing baseball anymore, it's just about the money.
You can replace baseball with [Name Your Sport Here] and it's the exact thing. It's all a business but you know what? I'm still watching.
posted by BornIcon at 03:56 PM on September 01, 2010
You can replace baseball with [Name Your Sport Here] and it's the exact thing. Stop picking on LeBron. He does it all out of a pure love of the game.
posted by MKUltra at 04:24 PM on September 01, 2010
Stop picking on LeBron. He does it all out of a pure love of the game.
Actually, LeBron did what he did to try to win a championship. If it was about the money, he would've stayed in Cleveland where he would've made about $30 million dollars more.
posted by BornIcon at 04:34 PM on September 01, 2010
Or Lebron calculated how much more money he could make in sponsorships deals if he wins a championship.
posted by bperk at 07:41 PM on September 01, 2010
Not to mention the tax breaks, and the fact he's in Miami instead of Cleveland during the winter...
posted by MeatSaber at 07:48 PM on September 01, 2010
I think LeBron did what he did because playing with the pressure of being The Man in The Hometown sounded less fun than playing with his friends in Miami.
posted by rcade at 08:31 PM on September 01, 2010
Please tell me you don't think he "tanked", like most Boston fans have been brainwashed to believe.
I think you'll notice grum that most of the comments here anti-manny are not from Red Sox fans, and I don't believe it's in anyway limited to Red Sox fans. Plenty of 'us' realize that without Manny we're still counting years until a championship, of course, the other side is louder. I always have, and always will appreciate his years with Boston. I found him amazingly entertaining as well one of the best hitters in the game.
But I think it was time for him to move on from Boston, and again, I say that as someone that always gave Manny the benefit of the doubt (I think LA is simply a case of Manny not being able to play the field any longer. He needs to be a DH).
Baseball isn't about playing baseball anymore, it's just about the money. Stats only matter because they help you to negotiate a bigger contract.
posted by irunfromclones
Jim Nasium, "The Golden Age of Baseball -- And Those Who Were Born Too Soon", The Sporting News, November 4, 1927, page 3:
[T]here is little doubt but that this big money that is being paid to the players has had its effect on the playing end of the game. In those other years every player in the game was in there because he loved the game and liked to play baseball and would rather win a ball game than do anything else in the world, as there was nothing else in those days to attract him to being a ball player. Today, boys are attracted into the game by the money they can make by playing it, and the mere playing of the game or the winning of games is of secondary importance.
That's not a rare example from that time either; some are even older and more damning. The only reason we believe players were different before we were even alive is that we never saw them play. We're idealizing a time that we know only by rare grainy black and white footage.
posted by justgary at 11:40 PM on September 01, 2010
I haven't watched a professional baseball game since the strike year when they didn't play a World Series.
Then you haven't even watched Manny play. You are judging that he is bad for baseball without ever seeing him play. Maybe if you actually watched him play, you might have a different opinion. I think he is great. He looks like he is having fun when he plays. I could care less about writers who wish he were more serious about baseball, yet still wish players played the game as they did in their idealized version of yesteryear. He is entertaining and amusing, and makes the game more fun to watch.
posted by bperk at 07:05 AM on September 02, 2010
If you want to consider me "brainwashed," then go right ahead.
Good to know.
posted by grum@work at 01:43 PM on September 02, 2010
Oh, and I can't WAIT to see what happens when Manny plays in Boston tomorrow night. How will the fans react?
posted by grum@work at 01:49 PM on September 02, 2010
Oh, and I can't WAIT to see what happens when Manny plays in Boston tomorrow night. How will the fans react?
He's going to be booed with a smattering of cheers mixed in, same as last time.
Did you hear his comments after leaving Boston? How much he loved LA and their fans? Despite that he was cheered in Boston his entire career. In fact, several players during Manny's years in Boston complained that Manny was cheered no matter what he did, while they were booed at the drop of a hat?
You're good at showing how fans can be unfair grum, but you seem either unaware or you completely ignore the players side.
When Pedro came back to Boston he was given several standing ovations, and both Pedro and Manny were great players and divas during their time in boston. Same fan base, different reactions. There's reasons for that, again, you ignore.
I also find it amusing you believe boston fans are any different that other fans. If a player leaves for more money, or simply does not want to play in front of those fans despite past support, he's booed. I'm sure you're familiar with that reaction.
posted by justgary at 06:12 PM on September 02, 2010
both Pedro and Manny were great players and divas
And there you have it. I think most of us so called Manny haters just like the lunchbox kind of guys. Or, Cal being Cal, if you will. And the dependability that that stands for. And, every bit of what Dyams said.
Saying you hate Manny is like saying you hate retarded people. They can't help it, and apparently, neither can Manny.
posted by mjkredliner at 07:52 AM on September 03, 2010
I also find it amusing you believe boston fans are any different that other fans. If a player leaves for more money, or simply does not want to play in front of those fans despite past support, he's booed. I'm sure you're familiar with that reaction.
A different scenario, which I don't think you are really acknowledging:
A.J. Burnett invoked a contract in his clause to "escape" from Toronto. As well, Toronto didn't win any championships while he was here.
Manny Ramirez was traded away, mid-season, less than year after helping the Red Sox win a World Series.
The primary complaint I have about the Boston fans treatment of Ramirez is the active nature the Boston media took in vilifying Manny in the last two months in Boston. It's very obvious to those who observe the situation outside Boston that the Red Sox "plant" stories with the local media to turn the fans against specific players. That makes it much easier for the team to then trade/dump them when the time comes.
Clemens went through it.
Nomar went through it.
Ramirez went through it.
The fun part will be trying to identify which current Red Sox player will go through it. If I were to put money on it, I'd say Papelbon. Look for some "revealing" articles in the next 6 months from Dan Shaughnessy.
posted by grum@work at 10:40 AM on September 03, 2010
A.J. Burnett invoked a contract in his clause to "escape" from Toronto. As well, Toronto didn't win any championships while he was here.
Oh, but of course it's different, right? Did toronto win any championships with halladay? No. Is he treated the same as Burnett? Or would he get a standing ovation instead of being reviled? So let's cross of 'win a championship' as a reason for the difference.
Those are different players, that went about things differently. I acknowledge that, and you're quick to point them out. But when it comes to the Red Sox, you completely ignore the differences. Again, there are differences between Martinez and Manny, but you lump all Red Sox players together while you quickly point out why Burnett deserves his treatment.
Clemens went through it.
During Clemens farewell tour as a Yankee he received a standing ovation at Fenway. Clemens won zero WS with Boston.
Nomar went through it.
Standing ovation at Fenway. Nomar won zero WS in boston.
You're correct about the boston media, but that's changing the topic. The fans are not the media. You seem to be confusing the two. And despite a Boston media that attacks players, with the exception of Manny, all the players we've discussed have received standing ovations.
It's difficult for me to believe that you can't look at what you're writing and not admit extreme bias. I mean, come on. Boston boos a player, blame the fans. Toronto hates burnett, but in that case you find the reasons appropriate. That's rich.
Everything was my fault, but you have to be a real man to realize when you do wrong. ... You look back and say I did this wrong, but what's done is done. All you can do is go and play the game and finish your career good.
posted by justgary at 09:17 PM on September 03, 2010
One of the greatest all-time hitters. One of the biggest all-time douches.