12/22/24
February 21, 2010
Cardinals Pitcher Upset About Clubhouse Gun Ban: St. Louis Cardinals closer Ryan Franklin is upset that Major League Baseball has issued a new directive prohibiting all firearms as well as some other weapons from the clubhouse. "There are a few guys that screwed it up for everybody," said Franklin, an outdoorsman who hunts and fishes on his 500-acre ranch in Oklahoma. "If it wasn't for the NFL guy a couple years ago bringing a weapon into a nightclub ... you've just got to be smart."
Wow. No matter what your position is on the Second Amendment and gun control, there's really no good argument claiming a right to bring a gun to your job, is there? I personally own handguns and have a concealed carry permit, so I'm hardly in favor of a complete ban. However, I would never feel the right to bring a gun into work, much less throw a tantrum if my employer told me she didn't want it in the workplace.
Also, the guys who bowhunt bring them to the ballpark and set up targets? It doesn't take an ambulance chaser to see some potential liability issues there.
posted by tahoemoj at 02:14 PM on February 21, 2010
If he only uses the gun for hunting, then i agree completely, there is no reason he should have it with him at work. If he carries for personal protection, I see no problem. Sure, there is very little chance that a teammate or other team associate would be the one he would have to defend himself against, but what kind of idiot stalkers/muggers/thugs will he possibly confront in: 1.) His drive to the stadium. 2.) The walk from his car to/from the clubhouse. 3.) His drive home. Sure, there is no need to take the gun onto the field, or into the dugout, but as a "concealed carry permit holder", you should know, it is better to be armed and never need it than be unarmed and attacked. Before the "Leave the gun in the car" comments start, that only adds more potential problems. If you leave your gun in your car and your car gets broken into, YOU have just effectively armed a criminal.....
posted by thenewguy821 at 03:25 PM on February 21, 2010
I'm with thenewguy821 on this one. How many studies do there have to be showing more restrictive gun regulations increase the crime rate before the liberals get it?
Players may have never been attacked before, but that doesn't mean they won't be tomorrow now that the criminals know they have nice rich targets that can't be armed to/from the clubhouse. Who was it that said your best defense is a good offense? That definitely applies when you're dealing with the underbelly of society.
If you have the proper permits and are locking it up in your locker once you arrive at the workplace, then who cares? Let one nutcase break into the clubhouse and injure/kill someone and they'll be going nuts for even more controls instead of loosening and letting the criminals/nutcases know it won't be tolerated.
posted by stalnakerz at 03:58 PM on February 21, 2010
How many studies do there have to be showing more restrictive gun regulations increase the crime rate before the liberals get it?
Citations, please?
posted by jmd82 at 04:06 PM on February 21, 2010
How many studies do there have to be showing more restrictive gun regulations increase the crime rate before the liberals get it?
Maybe you'll need to show some sort of data indicating that a ban on guns in major league clubhouses leads to more ballplayer-on-ballplayer violence. Since that is what Franklin is complaining about. Nice potshot at "liberals" though. As a gun owner with a carry permit, does respect for the rules of my employer make me a liberal?
Further, if your employer who signs your paycheck wants the workplace to be gun-free, that is their right. If you feel so unsafe there, maybe you should investigate a different workplace.
the criminals know they have nice rich targets that can't be armed to/from the clubhouse
Not that it's particularly germane to the discussion, but you know these guys don't park in the same lot as the patrons, right? They almost all park underground below the stadium, with few exceptions at older parks. I'm also pretty sure that there's security at the players lots making sure that there aren't gun-wielding hoodlums lurking about waiting to prey upon the athletes.
posted by tahoemoj at 04:13 PM on February 21, 2010
Just curious. How many people are allowed to have firearms in the workplace? I know I'm not. I would think not many.
posted by mrk124 at 04:14 PM on February 21, 2010
Just curious. How many people are allowed to have firearms in the workplace? I know I'm not. I would think not many.
I'm guessing police officers, soldiers, wildlife conservation officers, certain security officers. Beyond that, the list gets small (in Canada anyway).
posted by tommybiden at 04:19 PM on February 21, 2010
How many studies do there have to be showing more restrictive gun regulations increase the crime rate?
What's the word I'm looking for, um......ah.....wait...I've got it:
Bullshit.
posted by tommybiden at 04:21 PM on February 21, 2010
Players may have never been attacked before, but that doesn't mean they won't be tomorrow now that the criminals know they have nice rich targets that can't be armed to/from the clubhouse.
Yup. Criminals, who up to now have never robbed a baseball player in the clubhouse as far as I know, are going to start today because of a new rule. The fact that the clubhouse of a baseball stadium is a restricted-access environment crawling with security guards means nothing. The only way our baseball millionaires can feel safe is to arm themselves at all times.
No matter what the question, the answer with some people is always more guns. What next? Do players need to arm themselves on the field of play?
posted by rcade at 04:35 PM on February 21, 2010
I don't understand the gun obsession. I'm not American, and I won't pretend to know what it is like to live there, but I wouldn't want to live in a place that is polite, courteous and everyone is prepared to blow each other away at the slightest hint of danger. Is that really what it's like? The best answer to crime is to insure we all possess lethal delivery devices that can be concealed until the moment of truth? Personally, I don't think you've got much in the way of genuine peace if what it takes is the knowledge that everyone is a few seconds away from holding a gun to each other's head.
I think it's a fetish item. Gun = freedom. No gun = no freedom. I just don't think that's true at all. I think an armed populace really restricts freedom.
The two other things that immediately spring to mind are that there is an astonishing amount of accidental shootings that some people will put up with in order to protect themselves against some theoretical scenario where it would come down to "me or him" that 99% of them will never experience.
The other is that for the sheer number of guns in existence in the US (north of 300 million firearms), there is actually a comparably low number of actual shootings (around 200-250,000). So most people can handle the responsibility of gun ownership well.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 04:59 PM on February 21, 2010
Do players need to arm themselves on the field of play?
Don't be silly, there's no need for that. Not if they can station snipers every ten feet around the perimeter of the ballpark. And give every fan in attendance a gun upon entry because, if everyone has a gun, the criminals will be afraid to act. That's the natural extension of the logic, right? Throw some beer in there and, boy howdy, it's a good time.
posted by tahoemoj at 05:00 PM on February 21, 2010
Do players need to arm themselves on the field of play?
Go, Billy Cole, Go!
posted by Hugh Janus at 05:03 PM on February 21, 2010
I want to add that, although I legally can do so, I have carried a weapon concealed in public exactly zero times. My uncle teaches the course, and I wanted to learn how to safely and within the law handle a gun. Why not get a permit, even though I have no intention or need to actually carry a gun.
posted by tahoemoj at 05:05 PM on February 21, 2010
Go, Billy Cole, Go!
Just watched that again. Billy Cole is played by the Tae Bo guy!
posted by rcade at 05:39 PM on February 21, 2010
Just watched that again. Billy Cole is played by the Tae Bo guy!
Think he's shooting Billy Blanks ?
posted by tommybiden at 05:41 PM on February 21, 2010
Weedy:
I wouldn't want to live in a place that is polite, courteous and everyone is prepared to blow each other away at the slightest hint of danger. Is that really what it's like?
Of course not -- and you knew that before you asked the question. There are many, many reasons why people in the US want to own guns. Some of them are pretty far out there, some are only slightly misguided, and some make sense. If I were to check with my ten closest neighbors, I'm willing to bet that not more than two of us don't own a firearm (and I'm one). The rest? They hunt or target-shoot. None of them are walking around on a hair trigger "prepared to blow each other away at the slightest sign of danger."
You're an intelligent guy, Weedy, so I'm baffled why you're baffled at "the gun obsession[sic]". I don't understand attitudes like Franklin's, either. But I find it hard to believe that you believe his attitude is typical of US attitudes towards firearms ownership.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:10 PM on February 21, 2010
Go, Billy Cole, Go!
That is the worst lit football field I have EVER seen.
posted by grum@work at 11:30 PM on February 21, 2010
Yup. I've never seen the rest of that movie. The stupidity of that scene was too much for me. It's like the director never saw a football game in his life.
posted by rcade at 07:04 AM on February 22, 2010
There are only a couple of football scenes in the movie. Bruce Willis and Damon Wayans deliver some great lines in this movie. You are not watching for the football scenes.
posted by yzelda4045 at 08:36 AM on February 22, 2010
Life is too short to watch a bad action movie. That first scene reeks of early '90s Joe Eszterhas shlock that would never have been made before Hollywood discovered cocaine.
posted by rcade at 09:11 AM on February 22, 2010
Life is too short to watch a bad action movie.
Tell that to yerfatma.
*cough* Red Dawn *cough*
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:15 AM on February 22, 2010
Tell that to yerfatma.
*cough* Red Dawn *cough*
I loved that Red Dawn moment in SpoFi history.
posted by bperk at 09:20 AM on February 22, 2010
Life is too short to watch a bad action movie.
Tell that to yerfatma.
*cough* Red Dawn *cough*
He said "bad" action movie.
Red Dawn is an AWESOME action movie. ;)
posted by grum@work at 10:37 AM on February 22, 2010
Citations, please?
posted by jmd82
Here's a link to a Harvard study completed in 2009.... Google search for "study shows gun control increases crime rate" for more.
http://www.theacru.org/blog/2007/05/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/
posted by stalnakerz at 10:45 AM on February 22, 2010
The fact that the clubhouse of a baseball stadium is a restricted-access environment crawling with security guards means nothing.
How many banks "crawling with security" have been robbed and customers threatened/shot? How many attacks have occurred inside of police stations crawling with armed officers?
posted by stalnakerz at 10:55 AM on February 22, 2010
He said "bad" action movie.
Red Dawn is an AWESOME action movie. ;)
Maybe he got it confused with Red Sonja?
posted by BornIcon at 11:04 AM on February 22, 2010
How many banks "crawling with security" have been robbed and customers threatened/shot? How many attacks have occurred inside of police stations crawling with armed officers?
That might be a fair comparison if they only allowed bank employees into the bank. As for police stations, how many attacks have there been? I haven't heard of any.
posted by bender at 11:05 AM on February 22, 2010
Here's a link to a Harvard study completed in 2009.... Google search for "study shows gun control increases crime rate" for more.
http://www.theacru.org/blog/2007/05/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/
Your assertion was that the study showed "more restrictive gun regulations increase the crime rate". That assertion is false. In fact, in several places in the cited study (not the summary version that you linked to), the authors make quite clear that where they do find correlation, they are not suggesting causation.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:05 AM on February 22, 2010
How many attacks have occurred inside of police stations crawling with armed officers?
Answer your own question. I can't think of any.
posted by rcade at 11:07 AM on February 22, 2010
How many attacks have occurred inside of police stations crawling with armed officers?
Answer your own question. I can't think of any.
"Terminator"?
posted by grum@work at 12:07 PM on February 22, 2010
I am a friend of Ryan Franklin I was told he was here could I see him please.
posted by Hugh Janus at 12:09 PM on February 22, 2010
How many attacks have occurred inside of police stations crawling with armed officers?
Answer your own question. I can't think of any.
"Terminator"?
Or Assault on Precint 13.
posted by BornIcon at 12:47 PM on February 22, 2010
How dare any of you mock Red Dawn, Russians could parachute into Colorado and we would never see it coming. Go Wolverines!!!!!
The Colonel: All that hate's gonna burn you up, kid.
Robert: It keeps me warm!!
posted by Debo270 at 01:29 PM on February 22, 2010
Or Assault on Precint 13.
One of the best episodes of Homicide was when Junior Bunk shot up the squadroom.
posted by rcade at 03:33 PM on February 22, 2010
One of the best episodes of Homicide was when Junior Bunk shot up the squadroom.
Yeah it was, I remember that episode. As a matter of fact here it is.
posted by BornIcon at 03:47 PM on February 22, 2010
Red Dawn was so awesome there's a remake coming out later this year. Presumably the invaders are not Russian/Cuban in this one though.
posted by billsaysthis at 09:23 PM on February 22, 2010
Red Dawn was so awesome there's a remake coming out later this year. Presumably the invaders are not Russian/Cuban in this one though.
And I will choose to ignore its existence, just like I have with The Godfather III and Highlander II.
posted by goddam at 09:49 PM on February 22, 2010
And I will choose to ignore its existence, just like I have with The Godfather III and Highlander II.
Silly goddam, Highlander doesn't have sequals, there can only be one!
posted by apoch at 10:12 PM on February 22, 2010
And I will choose to ignore its existence, just like I have with The Godfather III and Highlander II.
Those are sequels, this is a remake. Plus, you seem to have left Godfather II off your refuse to acknowledge list, what's up with that?
posted by billsaysthis at 10:16 PM on February 22, 2010
Is it a coincidence that both Red Dawn and The Last Boy Scout were on TV today? I think not. SportsFilter has tapped into the collective unconscious.
posted by tahoemoj at 10:36 PM on February 22, 2010
And I will choose to ignore its existence, just like I have with The Godfather III...
The Godfather III is just misunderstood.
posted by BornIcon at 10:49 PM on February 22, 2010
Plus, you seem to have left Godfather II off your refuse to acknowledge list
Because God Father 2 was awesome. The kid that makes you proud. Godfather 3 was the disappointing child you want to forget.
The Godfather III is just misunderstood.
It's just a little L O N G. Is it over yet?
posted by justgary at 01:11 AM on February 23, 2010
It's just a little L O N G. Is it over yet?
I agree, it was long and not as good as the original GF or GFII but it's not like it was that bad.
Speaking of a long movie, ever see Once Upon A Time In America with DeNiro? That joint is close to 4 hours long.
posted by BornIcon at 07:04 AM on February 23, 2010
And I have watched it on more that one occasion. In fact, I wore out my VHS tape of the original version. I've onnly been able to find a shortened version on DVD.
posted by yzelda4045 at 08:06 AM on February 23, 2010
Wow, I still have a few VHS cassettes that I'm holding on for dear life like the double VHS for Scarface, Bull Durham and Akira to name a few.
I believe the shortened version of Once Upon A Time In America is not the 4 hour long european version which is excellent.
posted by BornIcon at 09:06 AM on February 23, 2010
I've watched both the shortened version and the 4 hour long one. I perfer the long version. Now I just have to find it again on a medium i can keep.
posted by yzelda4045 at 10:11 AM on February 23, 2010
The 4 hour version is European?
posted by yzelda4045 at 10:11 AM on February 23, 2010
I perfer the long version. Now I just have to find it again on a medium i can keep.
Netflix.
The 4 hour version is European?
As far as I know, the 4 hour version is called the european version.
posted by BornIcon at 10:15 AM on February 23, 2010
Oh. Well. I probably have seen the Long(European version) on DVD. Nevermind. (So everyone knew but me???)
posted by yzelda4045 at 10:51 AM on February 23, 2010
The Godfather III is just misunderstood.
It's just a little L O N G. Is it over yet?
I think it was long and ridiculous. If a movie is over 90 minutes, I require an intermission.
posted by bperk at 11:03 AM on February 23, 2010
I guess none of you would be up for my annual one day viewing of the extended DVD version of the Lord of the Rings trilogy then. Though we do take bio breaks...
posted by billsaysthis at 11:47 AM on February 23, 2010
I guess none of you would be up for my annual one day viewing of the extended DVD version of the Lord of the Rings trilogy then.
Like Norm from Yes Man and his Harry Potter party but without dressing up as the LOTR characters?
posted by BornIcon at 12:14 PM on February 23, 2010
No dressing up, BI. But dressing to cover up sadly aging flesh, yes.
posted by billsaysthis at 07:28 PM on February 23, 2010
I'm late to this conversation, so let me catch up by offering my thoughts on a few points.
I also have a concealed carry permit, and I have actually carried a handgun numerous times, several while working. Nothing against El Paso (or a few other border towns), but my trips to construction sites could get pretty scary. Originally got the gun and permit on the advice of the local police due to an agressive stalker my wife had. Point is, there are some valid reasons for guns, and not everyone that carries one is just waiting to go off.
My work with the Texas Rangers got me into the clubhouse on a few occassions...about 6 years ago they had an archery set up in a spare indoor hitting cage. A couple of the normal round targets and one full sized foam deer. Not sure which players used it.
While I no studies to back this up, a law enforcement officer explained it this way...the presence of guns doesn't necessarily deter some people, it's more the guaranteed absence of guns that attracts them. He thought this went a long toward explaining the sicko's that shoot up churches that they have no real beef with.
posted by dviking at 12:42 AM on February 24, 2010
No dressing up, BI.
Dammit! And I already made the dip. Count me out.
posted by BornIcon at 07:42 AM on February 24, 2010
How do you reach people like this? This guy is obviously so far outside my mentality that I just wouldn't know where to start.