11/05/24
May 24, 2007
Yankees donate $1,000,000 to Virginia Tech: Evil Empire eh?
posted by tommytrump to baseball at 12:27 AM - 105 comments
You just had to trip into Godwin, didn't you?
posted by igottheblues at 02:19 AM on May 24, 2007
They're giving Clemens 18 million for half a season. What's 1 million more? Pocket change. Honestly though, as stupid as the name is, I'm pretty sure that "evil empire" covers baseball operations only. Steinbrenner has also developed a reputation for being a very generous man in donating to those who are in need. He has given to the Jimmy Fund and, most recently, in March 2007 he paid for the funerals of at least 8 children who died in a house fire in the Bronx. These are gestures that he has repeated throughout his tenure as Yankees principal owner.
posted by justgary at 02:44 AM on May 24, 2007
At the risk of violating Godwin's law, does this mean that if the Nazi's had donated, say, 100 million bucks to polio research or something, it means they're okay? Comparing the Yankees to Nazi's? Nice.
posted by BornIcon at 06:02 AM on May 24, 2007
To the Yankees, sure.
posted by yerfatma at 07:12 AM on May 24, 2007
Yes, one nice gesture makes up for everything. Two questions for you: 1)At what point did anyone whose name is not Drood suggest that the Yankees were trying to make up for anything? 2)What, exactly, do they have to "make up" for? Winning? I know that's an utterly ridiculous analogy, but You should have stopped before the comma.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:16 AM on May 24, 2007
I know that's an utterly ridiculous analogy, but You should have stopped before the comma True that since even I have to admit, and I'm nowhere close to being a Yankees fan, that the Nazi comparison is a tad bit extreme...you think?
posted by BornIcon at 07:26 AM on May 24, 2007
At the risk of violating Godwin's law, does this mean that if the Nazi's had donated, say, 100 million bucks to polio research or something, it means they're okay? Disgusting. Well, that didn't take long. I have been a member of Sportsfilter for about 16 months and have just posted my first couple of links. I purposely chose to look for stories with at least some sort of a positive slant. I didn't want to link the latest arrest. The brutal massacre at Virginia Tech is obviously one of the most horrific domestic events in the U.S.A. this year. However, I thought it would be nice to highlight a positive reaction by another sports organization. I respect what Mr. Steinbrenner is doing here, much as I respect the Montreal Canadiens organization (another sports corporation that seems to handle issues with class and care), even though I passionately cheer for their teams to lose every game.
posted by tommybiden at 07:33 AM on May 24, 2007
....even though I passionately cheer for their teams to lose every game. Sounds like what I do when the Yankees play. Sorry to say that I was at Waterfront Park last night watching the 'Rocket' Roger Clemens pitch here in Trenton. Gotta respect the man for what he's done in his career though.
posted by BornIcon at 07:49 AM on May 24, 2007
I do?
posted by yerfatma at 08:01 AM on May 24, 2007
You should get a blog, BI. I think you'd enjoy that.
posted by jerseygirl at 08:14 AM on May 24, 2007
No thank you jg, maybe you'll enjoy that more than I would. Gotta respect the man for what he's done in his career though.
posted by BornIcon at 08:17 AM on May 24, 2007
What's with the rhetorical question reference, BI? There have been a few in this thread, although they were all back at the beginning.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:31 AM on May 24, 2007
I can't really think of a more charitable sports team than the Yankees. Off the top of my head, that's $1 million to the VTech victims, $1 million to Hurricane Katrina victims, and $1 million to the tsumani victims.
posted by bperk at 08:37 AM on May 24, 2007
That was in reference to yerfatma's response, LBB. No biggie.
posted by BornIcon at 08:45 AM on May 24, 2007
I applaud the Yankees for their gesture, but I truly believe it is misplaced. I note that the $1M is going to a fund to assist victims with counseling, etc. I should think that Virginia Tech bears the primary responsibility for the tragedy, and any donation to such a fund is a way to assist VT in ducking at least a part of its obligations to the victims and their families. I'm sure that there are far worthier causes that could use the million, but I guess, from a PR standpoint, they are not quite as visible.
posted by Howard_T at 10:38 AM on May 24, 2007
This is undoubtedly a nice gesture, but like any similar gesture it starts to look disingenuous the more it is played up for publicity. The notion that the Yankees are an "Evil Empire" relates to how they're hated for huge success, huge ego, and huge spending, none of which is affected in the least by an act of charity. I'm a Rangers fan and Yankees hater. They've beaten us my entire baseball-loving life. Steinbrenner giving a publicity-milking million to VT is nice, but it doesn't dampen any of my enthusiasm when the franchise experiences on-field failure.
posted by rcade at 10:53 AM on May 24, 2007
Doing something is better than doing nothing. As for me, the Yankees have my jealous, begrudging respect. On the baseball field. Except for Paul O' Neil. And I'm not too sure about Giambi just yet. Guess I'm with rcade here.
posted by THX-1138 at 11:33 AM on May 24, 2007
Oh, except that I'm an M's fan.
posted by THX-1138 at 11:35 AM on May 24, 2007
I hate the M's.
posted by rcade at 11:51 AM on May 24, 2007
You're just bitter because you're still paying for the curse of A-Rod.
posted by THX-1138 at 12:08 PM on May 24, 2007
Wow, who would have thought that a post about a classy move by a well run organization would cause such a stir? TT, thanks for a positive post about an organization many of us love to hate.
posted by tahoemoj at 12:56 PM on May 24, 2007
I have been a member of Sportsfilter for about 16 months and have just posted my first couple of links. I purposely chose to look for stories with at least some sort of a positive slant. I didn't want to link the latest arrest. Tommy, although you may have wanted the thread to be upbeat rather than about dogging on a team, player, or athlete you pretty much ruined any chance of the thread actaully being positive by your "Evil Empire" comment. The question invites people to argue with your view, at least what is perceived to be your view by the phrasing of your thread title. Not trying to be a jerk, so sorry if i have offended you. The way i see it, you set this thread up to be a Yankee bashing session, even if unintentionally. If you wanted it to be positive, then i would suggest that you don't ask a question in your title that is bound to rope people into being negative. Although i doubt that you could have avoided this completely no matter what. And the Yankees suck.
posted by brainofdtrain at 01:10 PM on May 24, 2007
The way i see it, you set this thread up to be a Yankee bashing session I have to disagree. The way I read it (Evil Empire eh?) was more or less like he was saying, 'So how evil is the empire now?' And the Yankees suck I thought that we weren't suppose to say things like that on here?
posted by BornIcon at 01:23 PM on May 24, 2007
Tommy did not invent the "Evil Empire" moniker. It's usage is common. Good for George, but I prefer these things to be done without fanfare. One shouldn't have the expectation of public approval in order to be coaxed into doing these things. But really - everyone wins here. And I too will still gladly hate the Yankees. But in that good ol' fashioned fan way, where hate is both begrudging respect and basically for fun.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:24 PM on May 24, 2007
This is undoubtedly a nice gesture, but like any similar gesture it starts to look disingenuous the more it is played up for publicity. I don't know that publicity is necessary a bad idea. Maybe it will pressure other wealthy organizations to give some money too. Come on, Red Sox, don't let the Yankees get more positive publicity than you - give more money to charity!
posted by bperk at 01:25 PM on May 24, 2007
I thought that we weren't suppose to say things like that on here? In front-page posts. In comments, it's not as big a deal.
posted by rcade at 01:28 PM on May 24, 2007
Got it, thanks rcade.
posted by BornIcon at 01:33 PM on May 24, 2007
In front-page posts. In comments, it's not as big a deal. wait, what? since when is saying "[your team] sucks" not as big a deal in the comments?
posted by goddam at 01:58 PM on May 24, 2007
what she said.
posted by jerseygirl at 02:00 PM on May 24, 2007
Seemed to me, in this case, the use of "the Yankees suck" was obviously meant as a humorous coda to a more serious comment, and that that would be the justification for letting it slide. I agree with jg and goddamn that its being in a comment doesn't matter.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:26 PM on May 24, 2007
Doesn't matter or does matter? My impression was that jg and goddam think it does matter.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 03:02 PM on May 24, 2007
If the rcade said it was no big deal if in a comment, then it's no big deal if it's in a comment. I asked because I thought we weren't supposed to say '[your team] sucks' but now that it's been clarified, I'll keep that in mind.
posted by BornIcon at 03:06 PM on May 24, 2007
All I meant to say was that there's a strict prohibition against homerism on the front page and the rules are looser in comments, where it's a judgment call. A person who contributions nothing here but "the team from my city is superior to the team from your city" will get the boot.
posted by rcade at 03:09 PM on May 24, 2007
A person who contributions nothing here but "the team from my city is superior to the team from your city" will get the boot. Will this include people who refer to the Yankees as "The Evil Empire," or does this rule not apply to those who undertake a position merely of moral superiority?
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 03:34 PM on May 24, 2007
I propose a daily 'Your SpoFi Guidelines and You" email newsletter. We can discuss things like "What qualifiies as a mundane news topic?" and "Sux! Huh! Good God y'all! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!"
posted by jerseygirl at 04:12 PM on May 24, 2007
I propose that "[your team] intakes air sharply" be the new sucks.
posted by THX-1138 at 04:16 PM on May 24, 2007
The reason I put "Evil Empire eh?" in the FPP was to act as a tongue in cheek dig at all those who feel the Yankees and their organization are what is wrong with sport these days. I was trying to get people thinking and if what the Yankees did makes one other person, or another sports organization step up to the plate with a contribution to Virginia Tech, or any other organization that needs support, then Mr. Steinbrenner has done his job. I do apologize for editorializing in the FPP, but I do ask for forgiveness and a little leeway, as it was only my second FPP. I was only trying to stimulate dialogue and discussion. My intent sincerely was not to create a Yankee bashing thread, like I said earlier, I respect what organizations like the Canadiens and Yankees do with regard to charity. I just want them never to win a game. Interestingly, I just read todays Toronto Sun, and I see where the Toronto Argonauts Football Club have donated $4,000,000 to The Hospital for Sick Children. I would have done another Front Page Post, but I'm a little leery right now! To put a little perspective on things, the Salary Cap for teams in the CFL this year is $4,050,000.
posted by tommybiden at 04:34 PM on May 24, 2007
the Toronto Argonauts Football Club have donated $4,000,000 to The Hospital for Sick Children. The Argonauts suck. /runs, hides
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:53 PM on May 24, 2007
Seemed to me, in this case, the use of "the Yankees suck" was obviously meant as a humorous coda to a more serious comment, and that that would be the justification for letting it slide. Agreed. They're just guidelines, not rules, and in that case no harm.
posted by justgary at 04:58 PM on May 24, 2007
TBH: Yeah, they're a bunch of sharp air intakers! (See how that works?)
posted by THX-1138 at 05:01 PM on May 24, 2007
BI, LBB, and anyone else who is interested: LBB is right in her interpretation of my "and the Yankees suck" remark. It was earnestly made in jest. I was just being goofy. Also, and I have mentioned this fact many times before, i am a KC Royals fan. So obviously i'm no position to seriously make fun of another team. I would kill to see my Royals struggle like the Yanks have every year these past few years (eg making the playoffs). Hell, i would kill to see my team in a pennant race past the first four weeks of the season. So please, do let this blunder of mine slide, b/c i was honestly kidding. My sincere apologies The reason I put "Evil Empire eh?" in the FPP was to act as a tongue in cheek dig at all those who feel the Yankees and their organization are what is wrong with sport these days. I have to disagree. The way I read it (Evil Empire eh?) was more or less like he was saying, 'So how evil is the empire now?' I guess i still maintain that this thread was set up to become a "yankee bashing thread," although i understand Tommy that you didn't intend it to. If someone says something that is "to act as a tongue in cheek dig" then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that those you are directing that towards will gladly return the favor. In a similar manner, asking the honest question "so how evil is the empire now," why shouldn't one expect one to respond? I guess i don't understand why anyone is surprised by the this. If you take a shot, even if it is a good-natured one meant to stimulate dialog, most people offer one back. I don't think that this is always a bad thing, but just a part of how communcation works. I didn't think that this was a huge deal; sorry again if i have offended anyone.
posted by brainofdtrain at 07:05 PM on May 24, 2007
Oh for the love of god, I thought you lot were more intelligent than this. The nazi comparison I made was to highlight how absurd referring to the Yankee's as "evil" is. And the fact that one grandiose gesture doesn't atone for anything or make them worthy of sainthood. (Not that I think the Yankee's are evil in any way. Annoying, most certainly, but not evil.) Apparently I overestimated some of you. Plus the original poster deliberately baiting with "evil empire eh?" needed a smack.
posted by Drood at 07:07 PM on May 24, 2007
Plus the original poster deliberately baiting with "evil empire eh?" needed a smack. Not by the likes of you.
posted by tommybiden at 07:26 PM on May 24, 2007
"Yankees suck" gets bandied about so frequently, and variations get targeted at so many different teams, that I can't believe anybody actually takes offense to the comment anymore. I'm numb to it. Doesn't make for very interesting conversation, which I think is why it has been "banned." I don't think it's to protect anybody's sensitivities. "Evil Empire" on the other hand is offensive. In the sports world, it gets directed pretty much exclusively toward the Yankees. It makes it sound like being a fan of the team is morally reprehensible. I was born into a family of Yankees fans and grew up in a neighborhood of Yankees fans, just like so many fans of so many other teams, and I take the tag as an assault on my own culture. That it came from the Red Sox, who singlehandedly made the Yankees everything they are today by the sale of Babe Ruth, in the wake of an instance where the idiot who said it just didn't do his job as well as his counterpart on the other team, just makes it that much more disgusting. The Red Sox are in first place this year by a wide margin, thanks largely to a player who will cost them more for this one year than any other player ever cost in any one year in any sport ever anywhere in the universe. Larry Lucchino is a lowlife weasel and a hypocrit. (In case you think that's just the Red Sox hater in me talking, let me say right now that I think Theo Epstein is awesome and have said so many times, and I have a fair amount of respect for John Henry as well, for all I know about either of them.) I'm sure that there are plenty of Yankees fans who shrug off the moniker or think it's funny and wear it with some pride. I'm not one of them. I don't think Tommy meant any harm in it, but I do think use of the expression perpetuates use of the expression. I take offense to it. I want to be able to root for a baseball team without being so easily equated to Nazis. Take that for what it's worth.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 08:57 PM on May 24, 2007
So please, do let this blunder of mine slide, b/c i was honestly kidding. My sincere apologies no apologies necessary. my comment was directed towards rcade's response to BI (which he clarified). i figured your comment was made in jest. and what Crafty said. i think it's more to keep the signal to noise at respectable level than to worry about hurting anyone's feelings.
posted by goddam at 09:21 PM on May 24, 2007
To The Crafty Sousepaw: I honestly meant zero harm by using the term ''Evil Empire". I was in fact trying to show what a decent honourable thing the Yankees were doing. I apologize if you took offence at it. I was trying to show that the team that most baseball fans (other than Yankee fans, though not me, I reserve the top spot for the Dodgers as a team, and Rick Monday individually) have at the top of their most despised list is corporately responsible, and as hard as the rest of us cheer against them on the field of play, we should tip our caps to them for actions such as this. To equate even in jest the Yankee organization with one of the most hideous, vile, murderous regimes in history is beyond the pale. There are just certain things that shouldn't be joked about, and comparing a sports team, a sports team! to Nazis is surely one of them.
posted by tommybiden at 09:55 PM on May 24, 2007
So, was I the only person who bothered reading the article? Lighten up, Francises.
posted by avogadro at 10:24 PM on May 24, 2007
What?
posted by tommybiden at 10:33 PM on May 24, 2007
I think folks are making a bigger deal about a throwaway line than need be, and utterly missed the point of the article (though truth be told, the article was fairly light and was easily summarized by the six words you used in the link).
posted by avogadro at 10:41 PM on May 24, 2007
Don't sweat it at all, Tommy. I'm not mad at you. The discussion just opened the door to a rant on pet peeve #68. As rough as dtrain has it rooting for the Royals these days (and I empathize), at least he doesn't have to spend the time between games hearing how his crappy team is ruining the whole game of baseball. Trust me, it wears on you after a while. It's too bad the Sox didn't sweep the Yankees this week -- this thread might have given me a total aneurism and the derail wouldn't have gone on so long.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 11:13 PM on May 24, 2007
That it came from the Red Sox Well, as you said, it came from Larry Lucchino who has been with Boston for all of 5 or so years. who singlehandedly made the Yankees everything they are today by the sale of Babe Ruth Oh come on Crafty. Ruth wasn't helping Mantle hit. Ruth didn't have anything to do with Mo's dominance during the Yankees most recent world series run. And it certainly wasn't Ruth that kept Boston from actually putting importance on pitching until 2004. It almost sounds like you buy into the curse. "Evil Empire" on the other hand is offensive. Really? I never would have guessed that. To me, evil is a funny word. It reminds me of saturday night skits with the church lady. I've always used it to describe the main rival for any team I root for. As a kid the Steelers were evil (cowboy fan) and the lakers were evil (celtic fan). But there was none of the thought behind it that you're taking from it, and I didn't get it from Larry Lucchino. I want to be able to root for a baseball team without being so easily equated to Nazis. Again, I've never heard or even thought of this. I've always seen it parodied as a star wars situation.
posted by justgary at 11:49 PM on May 24, 2007
Well, as you said, it came from Larry Lucchino who has been with Boston for all of 5 or so years. I am willing to postulate that if Lucchino is never hired by the Red Sox, he never makes the comment. The comment definitely reveals Lucchino's weasely nature, made more pronounced by his exposure to the obscenely Yankee-hating Red Sox culture. Oh come on Crafty. Let's take a look at one of an infinite number of possible chain reactions of the Yankees not getting Ruth: 1. Frazee sells Ruth to John McGraw. Ruth becomes a Giant. 2. McGraw, satisfied that his Giants are now outdrawing the Yankees by a fair margin, doesn't kick the new, mediocre AL team out of the Polo Grounds. 3. The Giants, wildly successful with Ruth, stay in New York and the homeless Yankees join the Dodgers in a move to the west coast. 4. The Cubs, desperate to compete with the powerhouse Giants, sign Joe DiMaggio when he is offered to them. 5. The Cardinals, also trying to keep pace, retain Branch Rickey instead of letting him go to the Dodgers. Rickey signs Yogi Berra and Jackie Robinson to play for the Cardinals. Everything that happened in baseball from 1920 on happened because the Yankees got Babe Ruth. Without Ruth, there is no Yankee dynasty and the history of baseball is rewritten in ways that, of course, we will never know. That's not just a crazy philosophy -- that is fact. To me, evil is a funny word. The first post in the thread jumped to Nazis. And it's one thing when it's just Red Sox fans calling the club evil (which one would expect, and for that to go both ways). But it goes far beyond that, to the point where objective media are using it as a casual nickname in lieu of "Bronx Bombers." It ceases to be funny when it becomes a defining attribute from the mouths and fingertips of 75% of the baseball world. I just don't personally get any joy in rooting for perceived evil, especially when the tag has been so cheaply and wrongfully bestowed.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:28 AM on May 25, 2007
The nazi comparison I made was to highlight how absurd referring to the Yankee's as "evil" is. You tempted the wrath of Godwin and paid the price. Making a Nazi reference that doesn't derail a discussion is one of the hardest jumps to land.
posted by rcade at 12:37 AM on May 25, 2007
3. The Giants, wildly successful with Ruth Obviously, this should say "The Giants, wildly successful in Ruths' wake..." though it is certainly possible that the Yankees would have moved out of New York while Ruth was still playing if they hadn't retained him. It's quite possible they would have moved AL representation on the west coast back 30 years from the A's move out there in '68. And with New York absent an AL team, maybe the Red Sox would have moved down. And, of course, become the so-called Evil Empire, what with not having Ruth or his subsequent curse to deal with.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:46 AM on May 25, 2007
That's not just a crazy philosophy -- that is fact. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Yes, history would certainly be changed. I just don't have the crystal ball to tell you how. We simply don't know how yankee history would have played out. And certainly Sox history could have changed a million ways after the ruth trade. The first post in the thread jumped to Nazis. I'm not going to tell you how you should feel or convince you otherwise. The word obviously offends you and I respect that. But I think putting that phrase in the light that you took it simply isn't a problem that even exists. As far as the media using it, well, every team comes with baggage. I'm an eternal pessimist. Not really, but that's what red sox fans do, right? And the yankees, yes, are referred to as the evil empire. When they're not I often hear "greates sports franchise in history". So, you know, yen and yang. made more pronounced by his exposure to the obscenely Yankee-hating Red Sox culture. In the past, maybe so. Not anymore. Sox and Yankee culture is far more similar. I think you've said before you don't read yankee blogs, so you might be in the dark. Here's what I know so far. Yankee fans hate the red sox. They hate beckett, they hate manny, but most of all they hate schilling (well, a lot of people do... but yankee fans more than others). Certainly you've hear the 'red sox suck' chants at yankee stadium the last few games. Mmm good times.
posted by justgary at 02:02 AM on May 25, 2007
Yankee fans hate the red sox. No way, not the same at all. Much of Red Sox Nation is obsessed with the Yankees to the exclusion of anything else. Most of the Sox-related calls to 'EEI are about whether the Yankees are going to win the division (egged on by the soulless hosts and their unimaginative programming direction). Certainly Yankee fans are more interested in the Red Sox than other teams, but reverse the standings and I don't think WFAN would be lit up with calls about the Red Sox. Larry Lucchino's disgustingness to one side, "Evil Empire" was clearly always a reference to Star Wars. If you compare the Red Sox and their fans to the Third Reich, Khmer Rouge, whomever, it wouldn't bother me a whit. As you suggest but then push past, it says more about the speaker than the subject and you wouldn't be so blind to that if you hadn't grown up in a fascist cult.
posted by yerfatma at 05:57 AM on May 25, 2007
I like to think of the Red Sox as N'Sync and the Yankees as The Backstreet Boys. It makes perfect sense, so I see no reason to explain. Also - the Jays are the Eagles of Death Metal. Much cooler.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:20 AM on May 25, 2007
And the Expos were the Reverend Horton Heat.
posted by qbert72 at 08:37 AM on May 25, 2007
But who's Parliament? Make my funk the p funk...oh and what Sousepaw and yerfatma said.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:45 AM on May 25, 2007
While we're at it, I'd like the whole world to adopt the French-Canadian version of the classic taunt: "Yankees sucks!" It took me a long time not to cringe when my friends were using it during interleague visits from the Yankees, when the Olympic stadium was suddenly filled with New Yorkers outnumbering us locals, but I've come to accept and appreciate the fact that, well, we don't speak English well. So Yankees sucks.
posted by qbert72 at 09:03 AM on May 25, 2007
But who's Parliament? Easy, The Mets. You seen all the outcasts Steve Phillips brought in before a real GM took over in Omar Minyana? Mo Vaughn and Roberto Alomar looked like they needed to return to the mothership once they came over to Brooklyn.
posted by BornIcon at 09:37 AM on May 25, 2007
We'll just have to agree to disagree. This isn't a good forum for the kind of discussion required to thoroughly explain how this isn't a matter of opinion. I'm going to have to ask you to think of a really compelling argument on your own on my behalf, then change your mind. You can start with, "Who builds the House That Ruth Built if it isn't Ruth?" As far as the media using it, well, every team comes with baggage. Noted. I accept that. It's not the worst thing that ever happened to me as a Yankees fan, and it's far from the worst thing we could be called. Maybe what hits me hardest about it is that the people I surround myself with as friends are Sox fans, Mets fans, Cardinals fans, Tigers fans, etc. and when the term "Evil Empire" gets thrown out it separates me from everyone else and it demeans not just my team, but my fandom. It extends beyond "my team can beat your team" into a moral and ethical judgement on my value as a fan in "choosing" (as though there was really, for me, any choice to be made) to align myself with "evil." Mets suck, Red Sox suck, Cardinals suck, Yankees and everything Yankee is evil. I don't know. Maybe I just need to lighten up and work on snappier comebacks. I'm not afraid to acknowledge the hightened sensitivity that a 21-24 record can bring. As you suggest but then push past, it says more about the speaker than the subject... Yeah, but the damn thing got legs and now it's practically an industry term. and you wouldn't be so blind to that if you hadn't grown up in a fascist cult. I flatly refuse to give any indication of the degree of humor I found in this comment. Poker face, poker face. Solemn. There. So Yankees sucks. That's so much better. Go 'Spos!
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 10:44 AM on May 25, 2007
Certainly Yankee fans are more interested in the Red Sox than other teams, but reverse the standings and I don't think WFAN would be lit up with calls about the Red Sox. That's a flawed example. If the yankees were in first they would be confident they were going to stay there. They'd have no fear of a collapse. They believe they belong there. Sox fans don't. Even now most yankee fans (along with sox fans) believe the sox will choke, often pointing to 78, the last two years, all of history. However, I read plenty of comments last year from yankee fans thrilled the sox fell to third place behind toronto in the last few days of the season. So while not on the same level, it's closer than it ever has been.
posted by justgary at 10:54 AM on May 25, 2007
Holy thread derail Batman! Or should that be..... Holy thread derail Darth! Indeed, Go 'Spos!
posted by tommybiden at 10:57 AM on May 25, 2007
So what's basically being said is that saying or writing 'Evil Empire' is out but 'Yankees suck' is ok? Is that correct?
posted by BornIcon at 10:59 AM on May 25, 2007
BornIcon, stay with the program. 'Yankees (or substitute appropriate team) suck' is out. 'Yankees (or substitute appropriate team) are sharp air intakers' is ok. At least, that's the way I read it.
posted by tommybiden at 11:11 AM on May 25, 2007
Holy thread derail Batman! As I step back and look at it now, the premise of the thread, from the question posed, was "how do the Yankees' charitable efforts influence public perception of the team." While the part about them being charitable has kind of been left aside, this discussion revolves quite directly around public perception of the team, so I don't feel it is as much of a derail as I did previously. Yes, I waffle. But to pull it back on topic, I go to a lot of games at Yankee Stadium, and more often than not there is some pre-game ceremony where Jeter or Posada or somebody comes bounding out of the dugout to present an oversized check to somebody. I'm sure every time this is done there is an associated press release. The degree to which that release gets picked up and pumped up by the media, I would guess, is in direct proportion to the notoriety of the recipient. This gesture is getting a lot of exposure not because of who signs the front of the check, but who signs the back. Suggesting this is strictly a PR agenda is silly -- if all they wanted was exposure, they could have written a check for a tenth of what they did and still have gotten plenty of press. Tack on the fact that they're offering to scrimmage the VT baseball team -- they're getting involved in the community and giving what they can. They might actually be well-intentioned here. Sorry. When we of the Yankee Empire can get back to harming babies and puppies and kitties and trees and bunny rabbits and the ozone and depleting everyone of antioxidants and Omega 3 fatty acids, we'll let you know.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 11:41 AM on May 25, 2007
That's a flawed example. Actually, what I wrote is confusing. I'll try again. The example you gave has as much to do with the history of the two teams as sox hatred. And while I agree that sox obsession with the yankees is greater than the other way around (yankee fans chant sox sucks, but sox fans chant yankees suck at games against other teams), it's much closer than it was even 10 years ago. Let the sox win another world series (crosses fingers) and watch it become even closer. and when the term "Evil Empire" gets thrown out it separates me from everyone else and it demeans not just my team, but my fandom. I would never have though that, but i appreciate your honesty. For what it's worth you couldn't pay me to chant 'yankees sucks'. I hate it almost as much as the wave.
posted by justgary at 11:42 AM on May 25, 2007
Hating on the wave? What kind of baseball fan are you? There's nothing more glorious than successfully starting a wave in a 50 000 seat stadium filled (!) by 4000 people. Maybe my MLB experience is skewed by the 'Spos factor...
posted by qbert72 at 11:50 AM on May 25, 2007
Actually, what I wrote is confusing. I'll try again. I was with you the first time and I recognized the flaw when I wrote it, but it's not a flaw exactly: there are no other comparisons. There are no other teams with such a history of getting ohsoclose and failing at the end. And of those 0 other teams, none of them exist in such a fatalist community as the mix of Puritans and Catholics in New England. I just find the level of obsession with the Yankees after 2004 over the top and the whole thing feels a bit bandwagon/ a bit media-stoked. It feels small to not pity such a lesser team. They've gone almost a whole decade without a Series title. I can't imagine that.
posted by yerfatma at 12:40 PM on May 25, 2007
I don't know. Maybe I just need to lighten up and work on snappier comebacks. Yes and no. Your comebacks are snap-tacular. But the whole Evil Empire thing is entirely misconstrued. It's a Star Wars reference, and as far as I can tell (and what the more recent films taught me) the worst thing about it is being lumped in with that huge pansy Darth Vader. "Is Padme allright? Nooooooooooo!!!!!"
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:07 PM on May 25, 2007
Jeter or Posada or somebody comes bounding out of the dugout to present an oversized check to somebody. And that's why I hate the Yankees. All that bounding around just pisses me off. For what it's worth you couldn't pay me to chant 'yankees sucks'. Yeah, that's bush league. Why chant it when you can just buy the shirt?
posted by The_Black_Hand at 01:21 PM on May 25, 2007
Yeah, that's bush league. Why chant it when you can just buy the shirt? Ok, now I'm offended. Is that Britney Spears?
posted by BornIcon at 01:30 PM on May 25, 2007
It's a Star Wars reference, and as far as I can tell No it isn't.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:09 PM on May 25, 2007
Yeah, leave Star Wars outta this.
posted by THX-1138 at 02:20 PM on May 25, 2007
It's a Star Wars reference, and as far as I can tell No it isn't. Yes, I am aware that this was a popular term for the Soviets, But contextually referring to the Yankees as the Evil Empire because it compares them with the Soviet Union makes way less sense then the Empire of Star Wars fame (related to the Nazis - but I think safely a few degrees away from a direct referral). I'm sure the communists wouldn't have that sized payroll. I would also counter that while both have been referred to as Evil Empires it does not mean that they are being equated (one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other). Honestly, are Yankee fans really this thin-skinned about it? I can't believe it. I thought New York, was you know, tougher than that. Aren't you supposed to scoff at we little people in our tiny cities? What with our wee little pants and hats and the like?
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:32 PM on May 25, 2007
yerfatma, there's no real point. If they want to believe the phrase comes from Star Wars, I'm sure not going to be able to persuade them otherwise. Hell, Lucchino probably thinks that's where it comes from.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:53 PM on May 25, 2007
I like to think of the Red Sox as N'Sync Justin Timberlake is way fucking cooler than Nick Carter.
posted by jerseygirl at 04:11 PM on May 25, 2007
Justin Timberlake AND Nick Carter can both intake each other's air sharply, as far as I'm concerned. Darth Vader could whup them all. Now leave me alone whilst I put the tape back on the bridge of my wee little glasses.
posted by THX-1138 at 04:30 PM on May 25, 2007
,,,more often than not there is some pre-game ceremony where Jeter or Posada or somebody comes bounding out of the dugout to present an oversized check to somebody Crafty, in my first comment, many many moons ago, I said that I applauded the gesture by the Yankees. The attendant publicity made it seem rather like the Pharisees being far too public with their charity. If the Yankees are frequently supporting one cause or another throughout the season, and it is only because the media have picked up on one such event, then I withdraw my opinion. The whole Yankees vs Red Sox thing is more than likely a product of a vast inferiority complex shared by New England fans of all sports. As Yerfatma put it, the Calvinist and Roman Catholic influence on us is also strong. Thus, when we refer to sharp intakes of breath by New York sports teams wearing pinstripes, we are actually expressing a psychological need to overcome our perceived inferiority and at the same time trying to deny any presumption that Deity might look favorably upon our team. Perhaps in this the age of the internet, some Red Sox team official could open a web site dedicated to providing psychological counseling to those fans who are obsessed with the "Yankees inhale sharply" chant. A full line of products from self-help DVDs to various nutritional food items would be offered at greatly inflated prices. Questions and answers, along with helpful advice, would be provided by guests such as Jerry Remy, Jim Rice, Dennis Eckersley, and (if we are really lucky) Hazel May. This has real potential. Jump on it quickly, Red Sox Nation.
posted by Howard_T at 04:55 PM on May 25, 2007
Weird. Better tell Sox fans. yeah, they're not the only ones. and honestly, i don't give a crap anymore. it used to upset me mostly because, like Crafty said, it came from the weaselly Lucchino. and i never associated it with anything but Star Wars. maybe it's just a strange juxtaposition for me because for years at the Stadium they've been playing the Imperial March while reading the visiting lineup and the Rebel Theme for the Yankees. but, somewhere along the line i guess i stopped caring about being called the bad guys. and i've learned to accept the fact that pretty much everyone hates all of the teams i root for in every sport. the less i care about what other fans think of my team the more i'm able to enjoy the game.
posted by goddam at 12:05 AM on May 26, 2007
Don't sweat it. We try to pretend weaselly Lucchino isn't part of the organization. The quieter he is, the easier it is to do so. The season has been relatively drama-free with media rumors and I can't help but associate that with Lucchino being quiet. but, somewhere along the line i guess i stopped caring about being called the bad guys. and i've learned to accept the fact that pretty much everyone hates all of the teams i root for in every sport. the less i care about what other fans think of my team the more i'm able to enjoy the game. That's how I feel. No one who isn't a fan actually likes the Red Sox anymore than they like the Yankees. They're on equal ground to anyone not a NYY or BOS fan.
posted by jerseygirl at 06:56 AM on May 26, 2007
If they want to believe the phrase comes from Star Wars, I'm sure not going to be able to persuade them otherwise. Hell, Lucchino probably thinks that's where it comes from. Thanks for making my point: that's what he was referencing and that's what pretty much everyone but you took it to mean, so grousing about it being offensive is even sillier than it would normally be for Yankee fans to be complaining about being picked on.
posted by yerfatma at 08:34 AM on May 26, 2007
grousing about it being offensive Where exactly did I do that? You silly person.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:14 AM on May 27, 2007
grousing about it being offensive I'm pretty sure he meant me. My silliness is done -- I just had that aneurism I've been waiting for.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 03:21 PM on May 27, 2007
Where exactly did I do that? You silly person. Consider for a moment that not every response is about you.
posted by yerfatma at 09:54 AM on May 28, 2007
Consider for a moment that not every response is about you. Consider that when you quote someone in your comment, it's not unreasonable for them to think that what you're saying is, in fact, about them. And that even though you've had differences with someone in the past, it's not absolutely necessary for every single response to that person to be an attempted put-down.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:12 AM on May 29, 2007
but, somewhere along the line i guess i stopped caring about being called the bad guys. and i've learned to accept the fact that pretty much everyone hates all of the teams i root for in every sport posted by goddam I don't know what it's like to be a yankee fan, but I'm a dallas cowboy fan. Have been since I was 5. It's not quite the same, but in many ways the cowboys are the yankees of the NFL. During successful stretches of their history people have absolutely hated the cowboys. They root for their team and against Dallas. It's never bothered me. In fact, I enjoy it. I don't think those that go overboard in hating another team ever look good. When people hate a team you know that team's been successful. Sure, there are always other circumstances, but without the winning coming first the circumstances wouldn't matter. No one who isn't a fan actually likes the Red Sox anymore than they like the Yankees. They're on equal ground to anyone not a NYY or BOS fan. Maybe in the Boston area, but that's not really true elsewhere. There is a hatred for New York that doesn't touch Boston. I've had more people come up to me and (wearing a Boston cap) talk about the season and end with "as long as the yankees don't win" than I can remember. Before the 04 series I'd have cub fans tell me they were rooting for their team and the sox. If Boston can win another championship or three I'm sure that attitude will change, but there's definitely more hate for the Yankees than the Sox, especially among the casual fan who knows New York has the largest payroll but has no idea Boston is number two. They still see Boston as a huge underdog, and everyone loves an underdog. Of course, the flip side of that is the Yankees have more fans who wear their symbol just because it's the Yankees and have no idea who even plays for the team. Almost every sports store I visit in different parts of the country has the local team's gear and the Yankees. Again, I don't think you can have the good without the bad, yin without the yang.
posted by justgary at 12:03 AM on May 30, 2007
Of course, the flip side of that is the Yankees have more fans who wear their symbol just because it's the Yankees and have no idea who even plays for the team. For the record, that's more offensive than any barb thrown at the Yankees.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:18 AM on May 30, 2007
For the record, that's more offensive than any barb thrown at the Yankees. Agreed. Every time I see K-fed in his Yankee cap I giggle. But it does point to the success of the organization.
posted by justgary at 12:48 AM on May 30, 2007
For the record, that's more offensive than any barb thrown at the Yankees. Agreed. Every time I see K-fed in his Yankee cap I giggle. But it does point to the success of the organization. Yeah, I'm the same way when I see Tom Brady in his Yankee cap.
posted by tommybiden at 09:30 AM on May 30, 2007
I'm the same way when I see Tom Brady in his Yankee cap. Why? Tom Brady was born in california and I'm guessing a yankees fan. Why should he wear a sox cap simply because he plays for the patriots? If I had the talent to play football and ended up with the giants should I suddenly wear a yankees cap? I point to k-fed (I'm assuming he knows nothing about baseball, if I'm wrong, sorry k-fed!) because it's an example of how ingrained the yankee brand is in popular culture.
posted by justgary at 11:23 AM on May 30, 2007
If I had the talent to play football and ended up with the giants should I suddenly wear a yankees cap? I think you should wear a Yankees cap anyway. Frontrunner.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:14 PM on May 30, 2007
I think you should wear a Yankees cap anyway. Only if you buy me this one.
posted by justgary at 12:41 PM on May 30, 2007
I will buy you that if you promise to take a picture of yourself wearing it and post it on the sidebar on the front page.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:44 PM on May 30, 2007
And you have to make it your AIM avatar. Forever.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:49 PM on May 30, 2007
I might have considered it until jerseygirl's added stipulations (plus, I'd be helping feed one of the K kids).
posted by justgary at 12:57 PM on May 30, 2007
You're taking food out of Kooly Clemens' mouth, Gary.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:58 PM on May 30, 2007
You know, if he named one of his kids Koolio I might have to rethink my opinion on the man.
posted by justgary at 01:05 PM on May 30, 2007
Bedazzling!
posted by tahoemoj at 02:49 PM on May 30, 2007
Disco Raga!!
posted by tommybiden at 02:54 PM on May 30, 2007
That cap makes me wonder why all caps don't have rhinestone flairs.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:21 PM on May 30, 2007
In Debbie's world, they do. You should see what she can do with a jacket.
posted by justgary at 04:32 PM on May 30, 2007
I do love the way that when an organisation that's considered to be evil makes a single magnanimous gesture, someone will always say pretty much what the title of this says. Yes, one nice gesture makes up for everything. At the risk of violating Godwin's law, does this mean that if the Nazi's had donated, say, 100 million bucks to polio research or something, it means they're okay? I know that's an utterly ridiculous analogy, but really... Is the "Evil empire eh?" editorialising really needed? No, it isn't. The story speaks for itself.