December 16, 2005

Joey didn't have Lewis or Dungy as his head coach. He didn't have the OF line that Cincy or Indy has. He was thrown into the war sooner than he should have been. Seems as if some of the Detroit teams are not willing to learn to play together and the owners are in too big of hurry to have a winner. This will probably be the first year I will want an AFC team to will the Super Bowl. Still a Lion's fan at heart and check the scores and all here in Indiana, but I have to say, "GO COLTS."

posted by coach at 06:47 AM on December 16, 2005

well if u ask me, Harrington never gave me any reason to think he would ever be good. and i'm sure it didnt help that he ended up playing for perennial bums, thd Detroit Lions.

posted by grizzay at 09:13 AM on December 16, 2005

He didn't have the OF line that Cincy or Indy has. Spot on correct. Nobody in the Lions organization has ever understood that the o-line comes first. Then you worry about the QB, RB, WR, etc. If your line is top notch, you can get away with mediocrity at the other positions, but not the reverse. The Lions have always been groping for a big name savior.

posted by dzot at 09:15 AM on December 16, 2005

Here's a guy with some talent (Joey). Drafted by a GM with none. Forced into a West Coast Offense he's not suited to run by a coach with zero talent (Mohrningwig) so they bring in another West Coach Offense Coach (Mooch) and continue to insist Joey run the WC Offense. It's trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. It does nothing but prove Millen's complete incompetance. Remember he was so anxious to get his man (Mooch) that he was fined ($250,000) by the NFL for shirting the Mandatory Hiring Requirements Guidlines for Head Coaches. Hey, I am a Bears Fan living amoung the Lions Faithfall, as long as they continue to support the knuckleheads running the show they aren't going to see any daylight. I think the Fans are pretty fedup and just watch the stands during Sundays Game against the Bengals. You'll see more then %50 of the stands dressed in orange and tons of Fire Millen signs. I think the Fans are going to put their feet down. I don't expect Millen to survive the Winter. Joe Theisman said it correctly Sunday Evening near the end of the Packers game. "Whoever takes over the Coaching is going to inherit a ton of talent". The story of Harrington's run with the Lions is one of Piss Poor Leadership, Poor Drafting, Complete lack of Player Discipline and Incompetence top to bottom. I hope Harrington leaves Detroit and comes back to haunt the Lions. They certainly deserve it!

posted by skydivedad at 09:20 AM on December 16, 2005

I hardly ever watch Lions or Bengals games, but this stuff does seem interesting to me. Here are Mannings, Harringtons, and Palmers numbers during their first two seasons as starters (palmer's 2nd and 3rd season). 1998 IND 16 326 575 56.7 3739 6.5 26 28 71.2 2002 DET 14 215 429 50.1 2294 5.3 12 16 59.9 2004 CIN 13 263 432 60.9 2897 6.7 18 18 77.3 1999 IND 16 331 533 62.1 4135 7.8 26 15 90.7 2003 DET 16 309 554 55.8 2880 5.2 17 22 63.9 2005 CIN 13 287 426 67.4 3242 7.6 27 8 103.2 Here's the season breakdown of Harrington's career numbers. 2002 DET 14 215 429 50.1 2294 5.3 12 16 59.9 2003 DET 16 309 554 55.8 2880 5.2 17 22 63.9 2004 DET 16 274 489 56.0 3047 6.2 19 12 77.5 2005 DET 9 148 260 56.9 1522 5.9 8 11 66.5 Here's Palmer's. 2004 CIN 13 263 432 60.9 2897 6.7 18 18 77.3 2005 CIN 13 287 426 67.4 3242 7.6 27 8 103.2 Here's the career completion percentages of all players. Manning - 63.9 Harrington - 54.6 Palmer - 64.1 Manning has had 4 consecutive seasons completing over 66% of his passes, his only year under 60% was his rookie year. I've no idea how to evalute these kinds of things, but I think these numbers are pretty interesting. I've watched Manning every year he's been in the league and I can remember what a struggle his rookie campaign was, but by the end of the season he seemed to "get it" and was playing much better. Check it out: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MannPe00.htm from week 13 on he was much improved. Here's the page for harrington: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/HarrJo00.htm#2002 - there's no easily identifiable point from which his numbers dramatically improve. Harrington's interception numbers actually seem pretty low, but his completion percentage is horrible, especially since he's supposed to be in a West Coast offense. Statistically, Palmer looks like a freak, but he has half the data of Harrington and like 1/4th of Manning. Going solely on numbers it looks to me like Harrington was progressing fine and needed to start all 16 games this year. In 2004 especially Harrington's numbers look fine to me for a young quarterback. 19 TD's is low, but only 12 int's is excellent. However, his completion percentage is really, really low. Isn't this guy supposed to be a good passer? These are like Michael Vick numbers. Just for comparison - Michael Vick's career numbers. 2001 ATL 8 50 113 44.2 785 6.9 2 3 62.7 2002 ATL 15 231 421 54.9 2936 7.0 16 8 81.6 2003 ATL 5 50 100 50.0 585 5.9 4 3 69.0 2004 ATL 15 181 321 56.4 2313 7.2 14 12 78.1 2005 ATL 12 170 305 55.7 2014 6.6 13 10 76.6

posted by chmurray at 09:43 AM on December 16, 2005

Some guys are pro QBs, some aren't. Some look good in college b/c of the system (I'm looking at you, Kyle Boller), but its not any kind of indication they can make it in the NFL.

posted by drjimmy11 at 12:38 PM on December 16, 2005

posted by cl at 01:58 PM on December 16, 2005

The plain and simple fact is that he just can't cut it on the pro level. Yes the OL is very important and the Lions sure don't have one, but a true leader can inspire their players to play above themselves and Joey is just not a leader.

posted by commander cody at 12:45 AM on December 17, 2005