11/21/24
December 05, 2005
Single Season All-Time Team: With the caveat that you can only choose one player from each franchise. Ruth or Mantle? Gibson or Musial? My picks are forthcoming....
posted by Wrigley South to baseball at 11:06 AM - 61 comments
Looks like a community blog of some sort. Got to think about my team, I only have a decade or so of following baseball to draw from... that team looks pretty good though.
posted by panoptican at 11:32 AM on December 05, 2005
Batting Order CF Ty Cobb Tigers 1911 .420 83 SB SS Honus Wagner Pirates 1900 .381 38 SB RF Babe Ruth Yankees 1927 .356 60 HR LF Barry Bonds Giants 2001 .328 73 HR 1b George Sisler Browns/ Orioles 1922 .420 51 SB 2b Rogers Hornsby Cardinals 1924 .424 25 HR 3b Mike Schmidt Phillies 1980 .286 48 HR C Johnny Bench Reds 1970 .285 45 HR Bench LF Ted Williams Red Sox 1941 .406 37 HR CF Tony Gwinn Padres 1994 .394 SS Alex Rodrigues Mariners 1996 .358 36 HR C Gary Carter Mets 1985 .281 32 HR Starters Warren Spahn Braves 1953 23-7 2.10 ERA Ed Walsh White Sox 1908 40-15 1.42 ERA 464 IP Walter Johnson Senators/Rangers 1913 36-7 1.14 ERA Bob Feller Indians 1946 26-15 2.18 ERA 348 K Mordecai Brown Cubs 1906 26-6 1.04 ERA Bullpen Dennis Eckersley A’s 1990 4-2 0.61 ERA 48 Sv JR Richard Astros 1976 20-15 2.75 ERA Eric Gagne Dodgers 2003 2-3 1.20 ERA 55 Sv Armando Benitez Marlins 2004 2-2 1.29 ERA 47 Sv Bryan Harvey Angels 1991 2-4 1.60 ERA 46 Sv
posted by Wrigley South at 11:49 AM on December 05, 2005
Who would you have announce the game though? Strap a mike on Joe Morgan to save payroll and let him go with Bob Eucker?
posted by timdawg at 12:05 PM on December 05, 2005
Yuke and Don Sutton would be a funny combo. Revive Harry Carey to drink all the beer in the suite and say hello to all the sick and dying old people he knows in Arizona. I do miss Paciorek and Harrelson (Two Georgia Boys I might add) when they did ChiSox on WGN
posted by Wrigley South at 12:08 PM on December 05, 2005
Choosing only one from each franchise is nasty tough, but given today's player movement, it makes it easier. Let me work on this for a bit.
posted by grum@work at 12:36 PM on December 05, 2005
Yes but remember you have to use the player on the team he was on during that best year. For example you couldn't use Ryno's best year and list him as a Phillie
posted by Wrigley South at 01:16 PM on December 05, 2005
For example you couldn't use Ryno's best year and list him as a Phillie Actually, this HELPS me make the list a bit. My favourite "cheat" so far: Roger Clemens, Toronto Blue Jays - 1997!
posted by grum@work at 01:26 PM on December 05, 2005
For the record, I'm going to try and build a 25-man lineup. 8 starting fielders 5 starting pitchers 6 relief pitchers 6 bench players (where anyone can be a "DH" if required)
posted by grum@work at 01:28 PM on December 05, 2005
This is a full blown nerd-off between grumatwork and Wrigley south. I love it.
posted by HATER 187 at 01:30 PM on December 05, 2005
Yeah, I didn't geta D Ray, Expo/National,Blue Jay, Brewer/Pilot, D Back, Rockie or Royal.
posted by Wrigley South at 01:31 PM on December 05, 2005
Ah my good friend Hater. How is the coke/cock habit? Wrigs
posted by Wrigley South at 01:32 PM on December 05, 2005
The DH is not an option. DH is blasphemy, blasphemy I tell you. Wrigs
posted by Wrigley South at 01:33 PM on December 05, 2005
Not too bad, knees holding up alright, the coke is nice and speedy.
posted by HATER 187 at 01:38 PM on December 05, 2005
Add Rock Raines to the bench, .334 70 SB with Les Expo in 1986
posted by Wrigley South at 01:38 PM on December 05, 2005
George Brett, Royals 3b, .390 24 HR
posted by Wrigley South at 01:40 PM on December 05, 2005
Robin Yount, Brewers, SS, .339 29 HR
posted by Wrigley South at 01:42 PM on December 05, 2005
Nice job on 3 Fingers Wrigley, I can't believe the site just completely blew by him! Though there will be plenty of talent not recognized, (Grover Pete Alexander, Chief Bender, Mickey Cochrane, Mantle, Hack in 30, and the $100,000 Infield of McInnis, was it Collins @ 2nd, Berry and Frank-Homerun-Baker! to mention just a small sampling). While the Big Train should be an automatic on any list, I have always been a fan of his 1925 20-7 season. Sure his 3.07 e.r.a. was high, (for him, though this was the dawn of the era of the batter), but he was 38, and his season batting average of .455 was, is, always will be, absolutely INF*&^%$#SANE! Methinks me will go play some Strat-O and listen to Jonathan Richmond.
posted by RedStrike at 01:43 PM on December 05, 2005
HOOO AH! How 'bout them Dawgs? Hater
posted by Wrigley South at 01:43 PM on December 05, 2005
And how can I forget Happy Jack Cheesebro, (sp?)!
posted by RedStrike at 01:47 PM on December 05, 2005
Nice list--I have to think of mine! This makes one think!
posted by daddisamm at 01:57 PM on December 05, 2005
Bob Gibson 1968 Sandy Koufax1966
posted by sonomajoe at 02:06 PM on December 05, 2005
Chesbro Was a Yankee ( I chose Ruth) Gibby was a Cardinal (I didn't have much of a 2b choice, so I took Hornsby and his .420 avg in 1925) Koufax was a Dodger and a Very Good point that I missed, BUT Gagne and 55 saves was hard to beat, I didn't paste hm though)
posted by Wrigley South at 02:17 PM on December 05, 2005
Gotta get Dizzy Dean to announce the game. I loved the way he drove those New England English teachers totally bonkers.
posted by drevl at 02:29 PM on December 05, 2005
I still Need a DRay, Blue Jay, or Rock. How about larry walker in 97 for the Stones? .366 49 gophers. That does it for my 25 man roster
posted by Wrigley South at 02:32 PM on December 05, 2005
How about Delgado? Not a bad DH... 2000 Tor 41 hr 137 rbi .344 avg .470 obp .664 slg 1.134 ops
posted by loquax at 03:18 PM on December 05, 2005
Curt Gowdy and Tony Kubek on Saturday afternoon were the best long before cable.
posted by gman56 at 03:31 PM on December 05, 2005
Not enough savvy to keep up with you guys on this topic so, from the "who cares" department, I put together the best Cardinal team I can think of. Blast away... RHP - B. Gibson LHP - S. Carlton CLOSER - L. Smith 1B - A. Pujols 2B - R. Hornsby SS - O. Smith 3B - S. Rolen C - T. Simmons RF - S. Musial CF - C. Flood LF - L. Brock PH - J. Torre
posted by STLCardinalfan at 04:09 PM on December 05, 2005
Don't forget Bert Blyleven, you just have to take him!
posted by INOALOSER at 04:10 PM on December 05, 2005
Inoaloser has infected yet another thread with his anti Blyleven bias. I also have no idea who you could pick from the D Rays. God they are down right awful.
posted by Fade222 at 04:24 PM on December 05, 2005
Don't forget Bert Blyleven, you just have to take him! His 1973 season is great, but when your franchise also includes Walter Johnson, you ain't making too many lists. That's not a knock on Blyleven, but it's also the same reason that players like DiMaggio, McCovey, Rose and McGwire didn't make my list (coming soon).
posted by grum@work at 04:24 PM on December 05, 2005
You could cheat and take Wade Boggs from the Devil Rays. But you'd have to find a decent season. Maybe Carl Crawford next year.
posted by yerfatma at 04:54 PM on December 05, 2005
The rules were:
- Players can only be listed at the position they played that season, for the team they played for during that season.
- No more than one player per franchise.
- Every position must be filled, and a 25-man roster (like MLB uses) has to be completed properly: no 2-man bullpen or listing 9 starting pitchers.
- Starting Lineup
- C: Mike Piazza - Mets 2000
- 1B: Jimmie Foxx - Athletics - 1932
- 2B: Roger Hornsby - Cardinals - 1924
- 3B: Mike Schmidt - Phillies - 1980
- SS: Alex Rodriguez - Mariners - 1996
- LF: Ted Williams - Red Sox - 1941
- CF: Willie Mays - Giants - 1965
- RF: Babe Ruth - Yankees - 1920
- Starting Rotation
- SP: Roger Clemens - Blue Jays - 1997
- SP: Sandy Koufax - Dodgers - 1966
- SP: Walter Johnson - Twins/Senators - 1913
- SP: Pedro Martinez - Expos - 1997
- SP: Greg Maddux - Braves - 1995
- Bullpen
- SP/LR: Randy Johnson - Diamondbacks - 2001
- MR: Hoyt Wilhelm - Orioles - 1962
- MR: Addie Joss - Indians - 1908
- Setup: Lee Smith - Cubs - 1983
- RHC: Trevor Hoffman - Padres - 1998
- LHC: Billy Wagner - Astros - 2003
- Bench
- OF/PR: Ty Cobb - Tigers - 1917
- CI/PH: George Brett - Royals - 1980
- PH: Frank Thomas - White Sox - 1994
- MI/PR: Joe Morgan - Reds - 1976
- UT: Robin Yount - Brewers - 1982
- MI/PR: Honus Wagner - Pirates - 1908
- No Barry Bonds! It's impossible to imagine leaving off the greatest single season of hitting in the history of MLB, but if I have him in there for his Giants 2001 seasons, then I have to leave off Willie Mays. And since I can't list Mantle (because of Ruth), then we are leaving off two of the greatest CF ever, and I just can't do that. By having Bonds out of the picture, it means that Williams can slide into the LF spot with no troubles. Well, unless you want to complain about Stan Musial being ignored.
- Other notable (non- Yankee, Cardinal, Red Sox, Giant, Dodger) overlooked players include Cal Ripken (but ARod and Wagner make it tough), Nolan Ryan (not really as great as everyone thinks, compared to whom I took), Paul Molitor (lots of positions, but none as good as those that took them, and Yount was a better Brewer), Hank Aaron (great for a long time, but never amazing in any one season like Maddux was), and Johnny Bench (although I could swap him out for Morgan and not really feel too bad).
- Relief pitchers are tough to do, because the position isn't really chock full of noticeable stars, especially on teams without great players already. You may think I cheated by putting Johnson in the pen, but he did come into a game in relief that regular season AND in the World Series. Addie Joss was too good to pass up, and filled the (lowly) Indian quotient nicely (although Bob Feller in 1940 came close).
- Did I cheat by using Clemens as a Blue Jay? Not really, as it's his best ERA+ season, and the first time he was the pitching Triple Crown winner (Wins, ERA, Ks).
- Hoyt Wilhelm? He's probably one of the greatest (underrated) relief pitchers in the history of the game. He didn't rack up the saves, but he quite often pitched more than a single inning per appearance. Besides, I love the idea of a knuckballer in the pen, to come out after the batters are used to the heat all the SP threw (except Maddux).
- Rickey Henderson would be very angry at me for leaving him out, but Rickey has to understand that Rickey isn't going to crack that outfield lineup. Hopefully Rickey doesn't take it too personally, cuz I love Rickey as a player and will cheer loudly when Rickey is in the HOF.
- Rangers - not really a "star" factory like the other teams, but Ivan Rodriguez (2000) might get a mention on the bench (instead of Morgan/Bench).
- Angels - in 20 years, we might talk about Guerrero, but they also lack a true breakout star (or maybe I just can't think of others that would supplant those I've listed).
- Rockies - if it ain't hitting, it ain't going to be listed. Walker or Helton might have been interesting, but Coors inflation can't be overlooked (as well as position overload).
- Marlins - the "fire-sale kings" had very few "wow" players in their (short) history, but Kevin Brown's 1996 was deserving of a look. Too bad he didn't pitch in relief even once that year.
- Devil Rays - Riiiiight.
posted by grum@work at 05:19 PM on December 05, 2005
Wouldn't it be cool if baseball stats were just about scoring a lot of runs and not giving up too many, since the game kind of encourages that behavior... REGULARS C Roy Campanella 1953 Dodgers 103 runs, 142 RBI, .312 AVG 1B Lou Gehrig 1931 Yankees 163 runs, 184 RBI, .341 AVG 2B Rogers Hornsby 1922 Cards 141 runs, 152 RBI, .401 AVG 3B Bill Dahlen 1894 Colts 149 runs, 107 RBI, .357 AVG SS Hughie Jennings 1895 Orioles (NL) 159 runs, 125 RBI, .386 AVG LF Al Simmons 1930 Athletics 152 runs, 165 RBI, .381 AVG CF Hack Wilson 1930 Cubs 146 runs, 191 RBI, .356 AVG RF Chuck Klein 1930 Phillies 158 runs, 170 RBI, .386 AVG RESERVES C Johnny Bench 1970 Reds 97 runs, 148 RBI, .293 AVG 1B Hank Greenberg 1937 Tigers 137 runs, 183 RBI, .337 AVG 2B Bret Boone 2001 Mariners 118 runs, 141 RBI, .331 AVG 3B Vinnie Castilla 1998 Rockies 108 runs, 144 RBI, .319 AVG SS Alex Rodriguez 2001 Rangers 133 runs, 135 RBIs, .318 AVG OF Tip O'Neill 1887 Browns 167 runs, 123 RBI, .435 AVG OF Hugh Duffy 1894 Beaneaters 160 runs, 145 RBI, .440 AVG PITCHERS SP Dutch Leonard 1914 Red Sox 19-5, 0.96 ERA, 224.7 IP, 24 ER SP Christy Mathewson 1909 Giants 25-6, 1.14 ERA, 275.3 IP, 35 ER SP Walter Johnson 1913 Senators 36-7, 1.14 ERA, 346 IP, 44 ER SP Addie Joss 1908 Naps 24-11, 1.16 ERA, 325 IP, 42 ER RP Dennis Eckersley 1990 A's 48 saves, 0.61 ERA, 73.3 IP, 5 ER RP Jose Mesa 1995 Indians 46 saves, 1.12 ERA, 64 IP, 8 ER RP Rollie Fingers 1981 Brewers 28 saves, 1.04 ERA, 78 IP, 9 ER RP Armando Benitez 2004 Marlins 47 saves, 1.29 ERA, 69.7 IP, 10 ER RP John Smoltz 2003 Braves 45 saves, 1.12 ERA, 64.3 IP, 8 ER My team -- just the regulars -- scored 1171 runs and drove in 1236 (even the pitchers scored 65 runs). The pitchers tossed 1520.3 innings (miraculously, there were a couple extra-inning games) and gave up 185 earned runs, for a team ERA of 1.10.
posted by BullpenPro at 05:39 PM on December 05, 2005
Automatic disqualification for looking only at the numbers and not the context under which they were garnered. (Some of those eras are a little questionable.) And for mentioning Armando Benitez in a game where we pick the greatest team of all time.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:39 PM on December 05, 2005
SP: Pedro Martinez - Expos - 1997 *cries*
posted by qbert72 at 07:56 PM on December 05, 2005
"Automatic disqualification for looking only at the numbers and not the context under which they were garnered. (Some of those eras are a little questionable.)" Perhaps I don't understand the question, but if a person has a great single-season, doesn't that qualify for the single-season all-time team, regardless of the season? I guess I don't understand the criteria. "And for mentioning Armando Benitez in a game where we pick the greatest team of all time." Do you think I enjoyed that? It is what it is -- can you name five better relief seasons that don't match teams with my top hitters and SP's? I struggled to do so, but that isn't to say it can't be done.
posted by BullpenPro at 08:05 PM on December 05, 2005
And for mentioning Armando Benitez in a game where we pick the greatest team of all time. But he has six fingers. On one hand!
posted by lilnemo at 08:11 PM on December 05, 2005
To add, if I am on to your meaning when you refer to the "context under which they were garnered," does that mean I can't choose pitchers from the Dead Ball Era or pitching heavy seasons in the 1960s and 70s, or hitters from the Steroid Era? How exactly would you measure this "context?"
posted by BullpenPro at 08:16 PM on December 05, 2005
"But he has six fingers. On one hand!" I think you mean Antonio Alfonseca. He would have been just as painful to include on the list. Benitez did once have six fingerprints on his head after a scuffle with Darryl Strawberry.
posted by BullpenPro at 08:20 PM on December 05, 2005
Yeah, Alfonseca, not Benitez. Neither of who is Arthur Rhodes.
posted by yerfatma at 08:48 PM on December 05, 2005
D'oh! Alfonseca. Sure after 9 whole minutes you remind me. Bastards.
posted by lilnemo at 09:21 PM on December 05, 2005
O. K. here's my roster which I'm sure will be mocked and ridiculed, but hey I like it so that's what I went with. Statring Lineup: CF Willie Mays 1955 Giants LF Ted Williams 1953 Red Sox RF Babe Ruth 1921 Yankees 2b Rogers Honsby 1928 Braves 3b George Brett 1980 Royals SS Alex Rodriguez 2002 Rangers 1b Hank Greenburg 1938 Tigers C Mike Piazza 1999 Mets Starting Rotation: Sandy Kofax 1963 Dodgers Bob Gibson 1968 Cardinals Steve Carlton 1972 Phillies Three Finger Brown 1906 Cubs Randy Johnson 2002 DiamondBacks Bullpen long relief Bob Feller 1946 Indians Booby Thigpen 1990 White Sox John Wettland 1994 Expos Billy Wagner 2003 Astros Dennis Eckersly 1992 A's Bench: SS Honus Wagner 1900 Pirates C Johnny Bench 1972 Reds CF Ken Griffey jr. 1997 Mariners 1b Carlos Delgado 2000 Blue Jays Rf Tony Gwynn 1994 Padres Lf Gary Sheffield 1996 Marlins
posted by Fade222 at 09:43 PM on December 05, 2005
opps and 2B Rod Carew 1975 Twins
posted by Fade222 at 09:46 PM on December 05, 2005
Would anyone throw out Ruth, and substitute Mariano Rivera?
posted by sonomajoe at 10:21 PM on December 05, 2005
No way sonomajoe. I'm a Yankee fan and love Rivera, but look at Ruth's stats THEY ARE COMPLETELY INSANE!!!!!!
posted by Fade222 at 10:26 PM on December 05, 2005
It's been an hour, and since I have'nt been blasted off of the site, am I ok?
posted by Fade222 at 10:44 PM on December 05, 2005
Satchel Paige? On imagined numbers, and in the 'context' that the world should have been a better place back then.
posted by owlhouse at 10:56 PM on December 05, 2005
Satch can pitch on my team anytime. We were doing best overall seasons ask me best players my ansewers would be WAY different.
posted by Fade222 at 11:18 PM on December 05, 2005
Would anyone throw out Ruth, and substitute Mariano Rivera? Rivera would have to see a lot of guys "thrown out" before he pops up as my Yankee choice. Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig, Berra, DiMaggio, and then Rivera. There have been too many legendary players to skip them all to get to Rivera. If we are talking best playoff team, then Rivera moves into position #1. It's been an hour, and since I have'nt been blasted off of the site, am I ok? It's really hard to complain about a list like that. My only complaint is Bobby Thigpen getting a spot and Pedro Martinez being left off the list. I like the Eckersley choice, however, and wonder about trying to rework my list to include him...
posted by grum@work at 11:19 PM on December 05, 2005
Hey the guy had 57 saves that year. If we are talking single season greatness hard to leave him out of the bullpen. As far as Pedro goes, the guy is an all world starter but I was having a heck of a time finding relief pitchers so I went with Wettland from the Expos thinking the starting five I had was more than capable.
posted by Fade222 at 04:44 AM on December 06, 2005
Everything changes if you change Babe Ruth from a Yankee outfielder, to a Boston Red Sox pitcher. I say use him as your starting pitcher.
posted by sonomajoe at 10:50 AM on December 06, 2005
Then you lose Ted Williams for the sake of the next best Yankee.
posted by yerfatma at 12:12 PM on December 06, 2005
Then you lose Ted Williams for the sake of the next best Yankee. Considering that the next best Yankee is Lou Gehrig, it doesn't seem too outrageous to me.
posted by drevl at 12:53 PM on December 06, 2005
Fair enough, but you can find 90% of his production at 1B easier than . . . nah, that's not true: Stan Musial and Barry Bonds are both decent replacements. I'd go with Foxx over Gehrig and keep Ruth from the Yanks, personally.
posted by yerfatma at 01:51 PM on December 06, 2005
grum@work You get the 'Spent the entire day working on this and I still have a job' award for today! Don't have time to post my own list, but do you really think Cobb is going to sit or pinch run for you? That sumbitch is gonna kick your ass.
posted by sfts2 at 01:57 PM on December 06, 2005
grum@work You get the 'Spent the entire day working on this and I still have a job' award for today! Don't have time to post my own list, but do you really think Cobb is going to sit or pinch run for you? That sumbitch is gonna kick your ass.
posted by sfts2 at 02:10 PM on December 06, 2005
so funny I had to post it twice...
posted by sfts2 at 02:11 PM on December 06, 2005
If, for instance, you put Rogers Hornsby at 2nd - does he have to use his 1922 or 1928 glove in the field? I saw Rizzuto's shortstop glove, and it's little bigger than a golf glove with padding. I can't imagine what Hornsby's glove looks like.
posted by drevl at 03:26 PM on December 06, 2005
Gotta get Dizzy Dean to announce the game. I loved the way he drove those New England English teachers totally bonkers. posted by drevl at 2:29 PM CST on December 5 COOPERSTOWN, N.Y., Dec. 6 — Broadcasting pioneers Graham McNamee and Dizzy Dean are among the 10 finalists for the 2006 Ford C. Frick Award, the Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum said Tuesday. Boy, do I feel smart (and that doesn't happen very often). I posted my choice to announce the game yesterday, and Diz gets nominated for the Fricken award the next day. Will one of you come over and pat my back - my arms are too short.
posted by drevl at 04:02 PM on December 06, 2005
Never seen Rizzuto's glove personally, when i played ss in highschool and jc i used the same glove i used when i was 12. It barely fit over my hand but you got the ball out of it really quick on the double play ball.
posted by Fade222 at 06:20 PM on December 06, 2005
Whose blog is that, Wrigley?