11/05/24
November 01, 2005
Phil Jackson: Zen-aphopbic: Sacred Ignorance
posted by Bill Lumbergh to basketball at 02:37 PM - 25 comments
In October 1999, these words came out of his mouth: "I don't mean to say [that] as a snide remark toward a certain population in our society, but they have a limitation of their attention span, a lot of it probably due to too much rap music going in their ears and coming out their being." I think it's painfully obvious what's going on here. Think about it- have you ever seen Bill Cosby and Phil Jackson in the same place? if he starts recommending the Lakers eat pudding pops and listen to "the jazz," I wouldn't be at all suprised...
posted by drjimmy11 at 06:17 PM on November 01, 2005
more seriously: assuming these are accurate quotes, (which is a very big "if", as there's no specific date or context given, or link to a news source where they were printed), they are very ignorant and poorly thought out. But a few ill-advised comments do not make a racist- I'm sorry, they just don't. I hardly think Phil could've commanded such respect from black players all these years if he was some kind of closet klansman. Mostly, this article just seems like a chap shot- another in a long line of people queueing up to kick the Lakers while they're down.
posted by drjimmy11 at 06:23 PM on November 01, 2005
A google search for the 2nd quote turns up only one obscure blog, where I found this substantially softer and more self-effacing version of what Phill allegedly said: The players have been dressing in prison garb for the last five or six years," Laker Coach Phil Jackson said. "All the stuff that goes on, it's like gangsta, thuggery stuff. It's time. It's a good time to do that. But one must remember where one came from. I was wearing bib overalls when I was a player." I call BS on Sccop's "journalism."
posted by drjimmy11 at 06:33 PM on November 01, 2005
ahh fuck phil lets see if the lakers could bring it
posted by defrag3x at 08:34 PM on November 01, 2005
The LA Times was carrying this story (the quotes part) over a month ago. He made those remarks in 1999 before training camp. I'm with Scoop. Why is everyone forgiving these comments? Clearly he's out of touch with the majority of NBA players. He obviously believes that certain players are dumber than others because of their race and culture. How can he possibly be the coach of an NBA team? He might not be a card carrying member of the clan but he's certainly racist. These aren't ill-advised comments. These are things that he believes. And the man ain't dumb, he no doubt considered this belief before making those statments.
posted by panoptican at 11:21 PM on November 01, 2005
And the prison garb remark was all over the place. Not just some obscure blog.
posted by panoptican at 11:24 PM on November 01, 2005
Wow-the Zen Master seems to over-analyzing himself---again!
posted by daddisamm at 04:20 AM on November 02, 2005
All you knuckleheads missing the point....Charles Barkley says basically the same things, maybe different words, but exactly the same sentiment. And hey, why you think Magic gave up coaching? Old school can't deal with the "fuck-you-me-first" attitudes of the young and selfish. Too many young players got no respect for the players (black and white) who built the league and made possible these zillion dollar salaries and all those gold chains. And get real, there is nothing racist about Phil's comments, see http://rdu.news14.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=76301 Black kids acting dumb in school just to fit in with the gangsta culture, now that's racist.
posted by old school at 07:50 AM on November 02, 2005
Because unlike Scoop, very few players in the league have master's degrees. Because unlike Scoop, we as fans have to read about players too lazy to go to practice, to high to suit up for a game, and to full of themselves to learn from their coaches. Like most "racial" issues in sports, I don't see how this is one either. Every year we read about how the quality of play is sinking, how the international game is catching up, and how incoming professionals lack many fundamental skills. I can't really blame Phil for these comments at all. If the players in the league had the same set of skills but were all white (or latino, or whatever), Phil would make the same comments, even if he had to refer to a different kind of music. Scoop's article is nothing but overblown hyperbole about "his" race, which generally seems to be all he ever writes about.
posted by chmurray at 08:06 AM on November 02, 2005
And hey, why you think Magic gave up coaching? Same reason he gave up his TV show. Cuz he sucked.
posted by Bill Lumbergh at 09:16 AM on November 02, 2005
Well, I don't think it's a racist attitude at work when one suggests that the NBA has a lack of a professional image. I think hip-hop music kicks ass - I also think hip-hop fashion is clown shoes stupid - okay, at least not suitable for work. And I also think that it's not racist or special treatment to expect a modicum of professionalism in dress and behaviour from millionaire athletes. None of this will take the hip-hop out of hoops, so what's the big deal? Scoop tires me out. I like his writing, and his subject matter is usually provocative - but it always seems to come down to something personal with him, and at times it seems a little contrived. Hey - just like hip-hop culture, he occassionally seems to try to hard to evoke a feeling of rage, when all he's really interested in is selling his shit to white folks. Maybe that's not fair.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:02 AM on November 02, 2005
Earth to Scoop Jackson Clothes is not race. Music is not race. Music and clothes are culture. Stop playing the race card just because its easy. This pathetic diatribe not worth the bits, I'm sorry I invested the 3 minutes to read it. Pooper Scooper, you're the racist. Where's the hate on 'Black Entertainment Television?'
posted by sfts2 at 10:35 AM on November 02, 2005
I'm with old school on this... Barklay did pretty much say the same thing....and i am tired of seeing and hearing all these babies in the NBA....but hey maybe some of us have too good memories of a by-gone era...i lament for the days where Walt "Clyde" Frazier, Wilt, Julius Irving, Fred "The Hammer" Williamson, Jim Brown, just to name a few of our sports giants from back in the day..... showed the world...not just the Black world how smooth,cool and classy looks in "Black"......and as far as Scoop Jackson is concerned he may feel it's cool and hip to dress like current hip-hoppers..with his "jeans hanging on [his] ass"... but I find solace in knowing not all of our top black scribes follow his "style".... big ups to J.A. Adande of the L.A. Times....and Nelson George....Master Degree on the wall or not ....Brotha you have it wrong....take it from this brotha ... I will take the styles of Magic and Michael..any day.....over all this bling bling BS the kid ballers want to dress in today.....at least some of todays ballers get it...big ups to Jalen Rose
posted by 70sSoulBro at 11:25 AM on November 02, 2005
You tell 'em, Undercover Brother.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 02:27 PM on November 02, 2005
I'm on the fence on this one. I think the dress code is silly, after all basketball is an entertaiment commodity and the way players project themselves as (now) mainstream hip hop idols is all part of the show. However, while I like smart rap music, the majority of it is sexist, homophobic, violent and stupid. Not surprising, it sells. And not just or even mostly to young black urban culture, but rather to young suburban white culture. I mean sure, the hippies were stoners and libertines, but at least they promoted peace and love, not "nigga gonna peel yo cap back and fuck me some hos, yo!" -- or whatever the current slang is (yes, I know I'm old and out of touch).
posted by sic at 02:33 PM on November 02, 2005
Scoop Jackson is like Ralph Wiley on tilt. He's the most tiresome, full-of-himself sportswriter I've ever read. He turns everything into a racial issue. Of course, he would respond that everything IS a racial issue. Fine, whatever. Forgive this ig'nant cracker for just trying to enjoy the games.
posted by Scott Carefoot at 03:51 PM on November 02, 2005
I thought Scoop's article was over the top, but his point is not. Phil Jackson should not get a bye for calling the fashion of young black men prison garb. I don't know how that can be defended. It is plain and simple a racist statement. Phil's logic: "Young black men wear these clothes while wealthy white men such as myself do not. Black men are prisoners or one step from being them. Therefore, the clothes that black men wear are prison garb." There is a huge difference between older folks criticizing younger folks for their attitudes, clothes, and music. Those criticisms have always been around and always will be around. It is an entirely different matter to assume that all folks who wear certain clothes are possessed of a certain ideology and behave in a certain way (or all belong in prison). Just because people in hip-hop videos act a certain way does not mean that everyone who dresses similarly acts that way.
posted by bperk at 04:08 PM on November 02, 2005
Wow...so Phil said some stupid shit. Get over it! What he said may have been ignorant but it was not as nearly as hate-filled as Scoop "I'm black and pissed off" Jackson's rant. What ever happened to objectivity in journalism? I think Scoop has an issue with race. And is he really proud of the fact that he goes to work with his jeans hanging off his ass? Give me a break. It's one thing to embrace and embody hip-hop culture. It's another to go to work looking like a slob. Ooh...good thing I didn't say "thug".
posted by willthrill72 at 04:47 PM on November 02, 2005
I have no idea if Scoop Jackson is right or wrong because he is unreadable. He writes like a high school sophomore trying to be cool. I can only assume the ESPN corporate suits employ him because they think he gives them some sort of street cred. For the record, I insulted both high school sophomores and corporate suits in the above paragraph. Would those of you who are experts in the relative injustice of various negative social stereotypes please let me know what my punishment is? Thanks in advance.
posted by dzot at 04:57 PM on November 02, 2005
Martha Stewart gets to club you with a high school sophomore.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 09:45 PM on November 02, 2005
thought Scoop's article was over the top, but his point is not. Phil Jackson should not get a bye for calling the fashion of young black men prison garb. I don't know how that can be defended. Actually, Phil was absolutely right, the hip hop style originated from prison garb. The oversized pants and shirts with the underwear sticking out "style" has its roots in the prison clothes that inmates would get at county lockups that were often several sizes too big for them. Since they were not allowed to wear belts they had to let them sag down exposing their prison boxers. Young gang bangers began to carry the style to the street, along with prison tatoos; later rappers picked up on it because it was authentic hardcore (see acts like NWA) although they personally had never been to jail, then young white kids in the suburbs. This is not racist, but rather a quite intersesting fact.
posted by sic at 05:16 PM on November 03, 2005
Yeah, some people believe that was the origin. Some people believe that the style originated from drug dealers wanting to hide their stash. I am sure if we think hard about it we can probably come up with some other stereotypes that will explain the origin of baggy pants.
posted by bperk at 11:28 AM on November 04, 2005
Enormous members?
posted by yerfatma at 12:28 PM on November 04, 2005
Rapid weight loss?
posted by dusted at 01:13 PM on November 04, 2005
God, the season hasn't even started and I'm already sick of Phil Jackson. I'm sure today's players have some fairly strong opinions about Phil's Grateful Dead and their drug-induced music. Phil was a little "out there" during his own playing days, but I guess he forgets that times do change.