11/05/24
August 19, 2005
Chargers threaten to suspend Gates if holdout continues: How far can management go when it comes to holdouts?
I like the Sports Guy's idea of changing the term 'holdout' to 'contract welcher'.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:31 PM on August 19, 2005
They can suspend him, but what else can they do? They don't have a contract with him. The "exclusive rights free agent" sounds like a big scam to abuse those undrafted players. Gates has three choices: (1) hold out until he has to rejoin the team to get credit for this year; (2) sign a one-year contract for the league minimum; or (3) sign a long-term contract with the Chargers for less than the money that players of his caliber receive. In light of those choices, I can understand why he is choosing to hold-out.
posted by bperk at 01:36 PM on August 19, 2005
Any chance that the topic of guaranteed contracts will come up at the next CBA meeting?
posted by cl at 01:58 PM on August 19, 2005
I like the Sports Guy's idea of changing the term 'holdout' to 'contract welcher'. Is every owner who cuts a player similarly tainted?
posted by yerfatma at 02:02 PM on August 19, 2005
see the sad part here is that these sports were played for a long time because the players themselves actually loved the game and wanted to play, not because of money at all. I think that if any player thinks that by holding out he is going to get more money he is being ridiculous. It is his choice to hold out, but the chargers also have the choice as to whether they can just keep him on the bench and not let him play. No matter their status or their playing ability, they should realize that the sport is just that, a sport, it is entertainment, it is not something that is needed to survive your daily life. The players need to get off their high horses and realize that they are making more than the average person to begin with and be happy with that.
posted by Raynie_one at 02:14 PM on August 19, 2005
I think that if any player thinks that by holding out he is going to get more money he is being ridiculous. Except that players frequently get more money by holding out.
posted by cobra! at 02:25 PM on August 19, 2005
The players need to get off their high horses and realize that they are making more than the average person to begin with and be happy with that. Football players happen to work in a more dangerous environment than the average person, and spend a lot more time away from home and family. Those are pretty major things that damn well ought to be compensated with pay. Not to mention the added responsibility and stress of life in a fishbowl where everything you say and do may be criticized.
posted by cl at 02:28 PM on August 19, 2005
There is no way that Antonio Gates should be making $380,000 per season. Have you seen him play? He's great. And while it is a game, it is also a hugely profitable business. People are making lots of money off it and players trying to get their fair share seems reasonable to me. And, once again, Gates is not under contract. He is an exclusive rights free agent. That means, despite the fact that he is not under contract, he can sign with no other team because he hasn't been in the league for three seasons.
posted by bperk at 02:29 PM on August 19, 2005
Sounds to me the chargers are trying to railroad Gates. If I was Gates just make the last six games of the season for league minumum and go straight to Okland or Denver for whatever they would pay me. No player should be forced to negotiate with only one team. Chargers just want to lock in a long contract for cheap on a great player.
posted by meat head at 02:45 PM on August 19, 2005
they are getting millions of dollars to play a GAME, and to the post that the game is more dangerous than the average persons job, that is BS, look at the men that bust their humps everyday to drive a truck across the country, and the men and women who serve our country, or even the men and women that work in mines???? there being a football player is not a dangerous job in the least compared to the "working stiffs"
posted by Raynie_one at 03:25 PM on August 19, 2005
Gates has played one season, how is that saying he is a great player?
posted by Raynie_one at 03:25 PM on August 19, 2005
Actually, Gates has played two seasons, with the big breakout coming last year, but I see your point. The phrase that keeps coming up in discussions of Gates' salary is "players of his caliber." I say, give him a few seasons' worth of consistency before we proclaim him the next Tony Gonzalez.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:39 PM on August 19, 2005
yep, people keep saying he is a seasoned player and he is not, tony gonzalez is an amazing player, and he has proved himself time and again, we need to give gates the opportunity to show us what he can do, but we should not be paying him what the seasoned players are getting, that was my point, I still think that it is ridiculous what these men are getting payed, but hey I am just a woman with a love for the chargers rofl so yeah I am biased anyways
posted by Raynie_one at 03:43 PM on August 19, 2005
they are getting millions of dollars to play a GAME So you're saying you're ok with owners getting those millions instead? It's not like the dollars disappear if the players don't ask for them. It's about fair compensation for talent. Also, players have struck for money or better treatment as far back as the 19th century, so please drop the For Love of the Game argument.
posted by yerfatma at 03:52 PM on August 19, 2005
well everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I have vcoiced mine, sorry if you don't like it
posted by Raynie_one at 03:54 PM on August 19, 2005
I never said it was okay for anyone to be getting Millions of dollars for football, that was not my intention what so ever, I was just giving my opinion... everyone has one
posted by Raynie_one at 03:55 PM on August 19, 2005
Rookies with no NFL experience get huge contracts. Gates set the single season TD record for TEs. He can flat out play. What's the fear? He isn't going to forgot how to catch or run routes. And he is only going to improve his blocking. I think the Chargers are making a mistake by not offering him a market-value deal. Thanks, yerfatma for your post. I was about to go into a rant about the idea that players make too much money, but you saved me from it. People like to complain about a free market when the result is that someone makes a lot more money than they ever could.
posted by bperk at 04:15 PM on August 19, 2005
No reason to apologize for an opinion. Just get a better one.
posted by yerfatma at 07:33 PM on August 19, 2005
It could be that SD has invested alot of money in Tomlinson , Brees and Rivers and don't wanna spend big on a TE .
posted by evil empire at 08:03 PM on August 19, 2005
That doesn't really make sense. He's worth more than what he's making right? CAPM says pay him. It's not like he's going to put them over the cap. And why would they pay for two quarterbacks to the exclusion of a potential All Pro at a skill position?
posted by yerfatma at 10:01 PM on August 19, 2005
Gates symbolizes for me why paying your players in the NFL is so tricky - the guy had a montrous ONE year, and now he wants to be paid like a Tony Gonzalez, who has been the best TE on the planet for 6 years. How much do you pay him? How long? The risk factor on this guy seems pretty high to me.
posted by chmurray at 02:19 AM on August 20, 2005
And why would they pay for two quarterbacks to the exclusion of a potential All Pro at a skill position? Your right , but I think thats the problem . They paid number 1 pick money to Rivers who isnt even playing while paying basically minimum to a player in a position that has very few stars . It could also be Gates had a monster year because of injuries and inexperience in the wide receivers , they may have used him more than the had planned on .
posted by evil empire at 07:12 AM on August 20, 2005
So what if they work in a dangerous environment and spend time away from family. Fishing is the most dangerous profession in the world, they also spend lots of time away from home. I don't see them gettign million dollar deals and crying when the 7 mil they agreed to is not enough now. Mnay if not most pro sports figures are simply overpaid crybabies.
posted by scottypup at 09:05 AM on August 20, 2005
How much do you pay him? How long? The risk factor on this guy seems pretty high to me. I agree with that whole-heartedly, chico, but the sticking point actually seems to be the inverse. I believe San Diego wants to sign him for either 5 or 7 years, but Gates wants to be locked in for only 3, after which he'll be an unrestricted free agent.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:48 AM on August 20, 2005
seems to me he forgot about playing football, take away the money and don't let him play. those guys make more money than the normal 9 to 5!
posted by traster0331 at 12:00 PM on August 20, 2005
in all honesty the nfl is tougher than a normal 9 to 5 try doing two a days in the morning and then again in the afternoon and let truth be told we'll spend over the norm prices to make a fast car a super fast car. same for the sports world to make a good team a great team you have to spend the money, and lets not forget players make millions owners make billions.
posted by sonofsaints at 01:00 PM on August 20, 2005
Football players happen to work in a more dangerous environment than the average person, and spend a lot more time away from home and family. Those are pretty major things that damn well ought to be compensated with pay. Not to mention the added responsibility and stress of life in a fishbowl where everything you say and do may be criticized. What about Military, Police, Fire, and EMS workers. They have dangerous environments, much more than a football player, spend alot of time away from thier families also? Those are " pretty major things that are not damn well compensated for"?????
posted by jojomfd1 at 04:18 PM on August 20, 2005
There was a really good article recently (forget where or I'd link it) that suggested high draft picks who hold out in the NFL are screwing themselves since you make the real money on your second contract (whereas a holdout gets you a tiny % increase in dollars). Phillip Rivers is a perfect example: he held out, got a little extra money and is now stuck behind Drew Brees. Even if he starts this year, he cost himself a year's worth of resume. If the Chargers stick with Brees, Rivers will be screwed on contract #2. Which is why Matt Cassell will be a brilliant draft pick if he gets the Pats anything: he's guaranteed to be cheap until they let him play or deal him.
posted by yerfatma at 04:31 PM on August 20, 2005
Rivers was actually in a pretty good bargaining position when the Chargers signed him--up to then, Brees had been totally stinky-poo, so Rivers was looking to be brought up to the starting position fairly quickly. Like, this year, since Brees' contract ended last season. However, Brees somehow got his act together and started kicking ass last year, essentially forcing the Chargers hand in resigning him. So we're certainly paying too much at QB, but that's just the way it happened. At least we were able to unload Flutie.
posted by LionIndex at 06:45 PM on August 20, 2005
Antonio Gates has decided to report to the Chargers on Sunday. The announcement came just hours after the team placed their Pro Bowl tight end on the Roster Exempt List, which prevents him from playing in the next two preseason games and the week one game against the Cowboys. However, Gates' agent Andre Colona said Saturday that he and client believe NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue has the right to rescind the suspension. "Antonio and I believe (the Chargers) backed themselves into a corner," Colona told the San Diego Union Tribune. "No one said Antonio wasn't going to report. For them to impose the roster exemption and say he had to miss games, they didn't have to do that." gee ,what a shock
posted by evil empire at 08:20 PM on August 20, 2005
Raynie, you can have any opinion you want. However you cannot come into a public forum like this, make an assertion of fact that's wrong and expect other people not to challenge it. An opinion is whether Gates is a top five TE or skiing is more fun than playing video games, not that a player shouldn't be paid a reasonable share of a club's huge revenues. Especially when you have an incorrect understanding of the facts, in this instance that Gates was already under contract to the Bolts.
posted by billsaysthis at 02:21 PM on August 21, 2005
Antonio Gates 13 TDs in a season are the highest total since Shannon Sharpe. It also ranks as one of the greatest TD receiving seasons of all time according to Pro-FootballReference.com.
posted by lilnemo at 01:41 PM on August 23, 2005
I think they have every right to make this ultimatum. Players can sit out as long as they want, but management needs to know if they have to go out and get somebody else to fill that role. Either he wants to be a part of the team and sign for a reasonable offer or he doesn't.