June 14, 2005

Lakers are done no matter who coach's them.

posted by HOE.O.K. at 02:02 PM on June 14, 2005

Jackson and the Lakers are fucked, plain and simple.

posted by Bag Man at 02:08 PM on June 14, 2005

Excellent analysis by everyone, by the way. The only thing seperating that mess from sports radio is some monkey in his mom's basement squealing "Rack Him!". PANTHEON HOPE ME!!

posted by lilnemo at 02:45 PM on June 14, 2005

Questioning of Jackson's coaching ability???????? What???????? Oh ye of little faith............watch more TV, more commercials, listen to the Zenmaster. Watch Zenmaster turn Lakers into a contender..............he's got Kobe. He won with Michael and an average center, Bill Cartwright et al............watch him come up with another Pippen to compliment Kobe. -Lakers fan since 1965 (I'm 50).

posted by robslob at 03:23 PM on June 14, 2005

Phil : Kobe :: Megatron : Starscream Very nice. I enjoyed that almost enough to balance out my massive, massive annoyance with Phil Jackson and the Lakers. The only upside I can see to this is that the pinhead faction in Minneapolis that keeps calling for Jackson to come and coach the Wolves will have to shut up.

posted by cobra! at 03:34 PM on June 14, 2005

Yeah, I suppose he has to follow the money, but I am mightily disappointed that the Cavs have not made a meaningful move in the coaching department...or the free agent acquisition department (I know, its the playoffs still, but the Cavs need to pick up a good coach AND Michael Redd).

posted by insomnyuk at 03:41 PM on June 14, 2005

...if he was a reel coach he wood go to the Knicks, or Atlanta... What?! The rest of the comment was somewhat coherent, but this is totally ridiculous. The Knicks? OK. Sure the one team with a WORSE salary cap situation than LA. And Atlanta? I'm not even dignifying that with a response. insomnyuk I would love the Cavs to go after Michael Redd and Flip Saunders, but I'm still leary of their new ownership.

posted by lilnemo at 03:47 PM on June 14, 2005

QUESTION: Dear sports fans, what do three of the greatest to ever step out on the court, Michael, Kobe and Shaq, all have in common? ANSWER: NO ZEN, NO RING.

posted by robslob at 04:11 PM on June 14, 2005

My point was LILNEMO, that Phil Jackass will not go to ANY team where he will have to put forth effort and WORK! Any team that has some rebuilding to do.ATLANTA AND kNICKS WERE JUST EXAMPLES. He needs to expand his coaching skills like, Lenny Wilkens Jery Sloan, or Gregg Poppovich. Lets see him win a ring without Michael Jordan, or Yin, and Yang. Then he will be a complete coach with the wisdom to build his OWN MACHINE.

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 04:32 PM on June 14, 2005

Fricken Haters Whats the rush to judgement for. Will Phil take last years Lakers to the finals? Hell no. But you dont really think that the roster is gonna stay the same, do you? Look for some serious added star power. Find some unhappy superstar like say,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,KG maybe. See what that does to a team with still one of the best players in the game, (KOBE). "Build his own team". I think some mental midget just said that. That is exactly what he will do. Build it around Kobe. Just like it was built around MJ. Rage Rod good thing for you your computer comes with spell check. Otherwise the whole world would see how ignorant you truly are. You should stick to NASCAR.

posted by Daddy4 at 05:02 PM on June 14, 2005

poor phil he wants the money he returned to the devil fuck la basically fuck all the big city tycoons its funny they lost to detriot with shaq and kobe now without shaq they garbage phil might want to screw kobe in the process he could have gone to the twolves but not enough money and i agree that he goes to the team with superstars only mj made it long time be4 phil mj is still better than these wannabes dwayne wade wont be jordan he will only be flash hes going to make it with r without shaq he proved it this season and the playoffs without shaq playing a couple games kobe is kobe not mj carter could have been the next mj but canada fucked him up and too many injuries i think lebron, dwayne, cmelo, Tyson Chandler, Ben Gordon and the whole pheonix team is exciting to watch in the nba now i liked the more competitive teams than star quality

posted by defrag3x at 05:21 PM on June 14, 2005

yerfatma thank you for the levity!! Can anyone stay on topic? We aren't discussing whether Kobe, Wade, et al are better than Jordan. Nor is this the "free-for-all-shit-on-this-thread-thread". (Though I am still waiting for yerfatma to get some transformer caption action going on!) Back OT: RR74, the Lakers, as presently constituted, are nowhere near being a playoff team, are they as bad off as the Knicks or Hawks? No. But do the Lakers have to be as bad as the Knicks or Hawks for Phil to justify his coaching credentials? Nope. If Phil can get the Lakers back into contention within his 3-year contract I don't see how you can deny that he is at least a good coach, if not a great one. Is Larry Brown any less of a coach for not having taken a bottom feeder to the Championship? Or Greg Popovich? Neither of them built their squads from scratch. They inherited good squads, but no one is lambasting them for their achievements. Phil and everyone else ever associated with Jordan will always have their contributions overshadowed by his greatness, but that does not diminish their achievements. And as for the T-Wolves, I got 2 words for you: Eric Musselman.

posted by lilnemo at 06:38 PM on June 14, 2005

Phil only wants more money and more attention paid to Phil. It's just one more case of someone in pro sports not knowing enough to stay away. He saw MJ tarnish his image and make a jackass of himself with the Wizards, all because he couldn't stand not having the cameras on him. You think the Zenmaster (God, I hate that) would have enough insight into his own self to know he should stay away from the game. Kobe has talent, but he'll never be able to lead a team the way MJ did. MJ had the cred with his teammates (until he went to Washington). Kobe's team will never rally around him as the leader because nobody likes him, NOT EVEN THE FREAKING COACH!! Hopefully Phil and the Lakers continue their crash and burn so people can finally stop talking about Jackson being such an amazing coach.

posted by dyams at 08:07 PM on June 14, 2005

What if Jackson was returning to coach because he enoys coaching? I don't like him very much, but I think that this could very well be the case. However, the timing of this ("It's the Finals? Who cares, lookatme, lookatme, LOOOOK AAAAT MEEEEE!") seems to lead one to think otherwise. The NBA is better with him in it. At the very least, he is an improvement over Frank Hamblen.

posted by avogadro at 08:52 PM on June 14, 2005

Lilnemo, do you understand plain english, do I HAVE TO DRAW YOU A DIAGRAM. LOL, Its not about overshadowing his coaching credentials, or about taking away anything that Phil Jackass has done in the past. Its about building his own team without all the pieces. so he can actually do some real WORK like the rest of the coaches in the league. Yes you are right I dont think he can rebuild any franchise because he doesnt have the knowledge or the patience. Gregg Poppovich pretty much started from scratch except for David Robinson, from which they still had a dismal year under Bob Hill. He rebuilt that team, and many other coaches have done the same thing. Now Phil has a chance to do the same, lets see if he does it. hehehe..... As for KG, my answer is so what about Bill Musselman. He was a mediocre coach for the warriors even though he should get the credit for leading them in the right direction. The t-wolves need alot more help then just musselman, and they better work fast before KG goes elswhere.

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 12:34 AM on June 15, 2005

Simple math: Jordan + Pippen + Kobe + Shaq = zero total championships without Phil Yeah, they need some players. Rumor has them swapping the uselessd Caron Butler and their pick to move up and take Chris Paul. That and a big man (move Mihm to PF/bench) should put them on the right track...

posted by drjimmy11 at 01:17 AM on June 15, 2005

I don't care about the Lakers or Jackson, I'd just be happy if people would stop using the term "zen" when they clearly don't have the first idea what it means.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:02 AM on June 15, 2005

Doesn't it mean not getting upset if people want to use it however they want? Watch out, that wall's pretty high, Humpty Dumpty -- you might get hurt! Meanwhile, since it's Wednesday, I have now decided that the term "Pope" now means "Starbucks barista".

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:07 AM on June 15, 2005

lbb, I'm running downstairs right now to get a mocha. That, and I'll confuse the hell outta the Pope.

posted by 86 at 07:38 AM on June 15, 2005

Hes a jockhopper, which means he goes to teams in which all the pieces are already in place, or shall we say the MAIN pieces. This iz why he turned down Cleveland with Lebron. Phil Jackson is taking over a lottery team (yes, that's what the Lakers are). Cleveland (42-40), Lakers (34-48). My tip for you: try not to get the facts blatantly wrong, your argument will be much more convincing.

posted by Mike McD at 08:46 AM on June 15, 2005

Its really funny that Phil annouced his "return" just a couple of hours before Tip Off of game three. He is getting bigger headlines than the chanpionship series. What a joke!

posted by daddisamm at 10:21 AM on June 15, 2005

I don't care about the Lakers or Jackson, I'd just be happy if people would stop using the term "zen" when they clearly don't have the first idea what it means. If you want to know what Zen is and how it can make you a better human-being read this book: "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" It was voted best book of the 1970's decade. Read it sometimes. One of the best books ever..I read it at 18 and it changed my outlook much as "On the Road" by Jack Keourac's book did for the 60's generation. Zen is not a religion but a philosophy, much as Buddism is.

posted by bluekarma at 10:34 AM on June 15, 2005

rcade saves the day. YAY PANTHEON! I think Phil's announcement had more to do with Dr. Buss' "hire a coach before the draft deadline" than upstaging the Finals. This is a big story regardless of when it broke preseason, midseason, or postseason because of the "characters" involved. And no, if Phil takes the Lakers to another title, he is not the greatest coach ever. Unless he does it this upcoming season (good luck with that mess). But with his credentials, he does make a good case for being a HOFer.

posted by lilnemo at 11:06 AM on June 15, 2005

I am resisting the temptation to do what often goes on here and make demeaning, often expletive remarks to other posters; that accomplishes nothing. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, SPORTS FANS. It has ALWAYS taken MORE than great players to win championships. Michael was a frustrated superstar before Phil. How many times did Kerr when a game with a three while Michael was double-teamed? Who put Kerr on the floor at the right time? And in shorter history, Kobe-Shaq were at WAR when Phil came aboard. Post Phil? THREE STRAIGHT TITLES. Yeah, obviously Phil needs players, which is what many of you are saying. HOW BRILLIANT OF YOU TO SEE THAT. WHAT I AM SAYING is that the players need the coach, EVERY BIT as much. If you can't see that, you're either too young to remember or too prejudiced against L.A. to say anything meaningful here.

posted by robslob at 12:01 PM on June 15, 2005

This is for you MIKE MCD, it does not matter whether the clevelands record is better or worse then the lakers last season. The cavs have made it very evident that they want this guy, but he doesnt want to go there, because it will be real WORK! hence, the example of the CAVS. Is that convincing enough for you...

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 01:03 PM on June 15, 2005

bluekarma, I agree with your book recommendation, but I would mention the book is prefaced with a comment that says it's not necessarily about Zen Buddhism or Buddhism in general. And the motorcycle advice may not be up to par either (especially if you own a bike built after 1981). It's a sort of philosophical travelogue. While there is plenty of philosophy in it, it's primarily western philosophy. It's not a book about zen. I should also point out that while there are many people who rave about this book, there are also quite a few who feel it's overrated. Check out the reviews on amazon, sort by lowest first -- it's pretty funny to read some of them. yerfatma, what I was trying to say with my earlier comment re: Humpty Dumpty was that there's a propensity in western culture to use the word "zen" to mean "any nifty cool profound thoughtful stuff", and to attach the tag "zen master" to anyone who seems more reflective or thoughtful than average. If I sounded annoyed at you, I apologize; I was more annoyed at the use of the term in the article, but as such usage is much more common in this culture than the correct usage, I really should get over it. It's a shame, though, because IMO zen has an awful lot to offer to many people, and it's too bad that the term is so misused.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:57 PM on June 15, 2005

l_b_b, I was under the impression that, when its applied to Phil Jackson himself, the "Zen Master" stuff is actually refering to Zen Buddhism? Like in a Sacred Hoops kind of useage of Zen Buddhism anyway.

posted by chris2sy at 03:30 PM on June 15, 2005

l_b_b, I was under the impression that, when its applied to Phil Jackson himself, the "Zen Master" stuff is actually refering to Zen Buddhism? chris2sy, as near as I can tell, it seems to be more sound-bite than substance. I don't know that Jackson really is given to more profound-sounding philosophical-type utterances than any other NBA coach, but because he is supposedly a Buddhist, people make much of it whenever he does. I haven't read Sacred Hoops, but it seems to be based not so much on Buddhism as a sort of eclectic New-agey mix (the title, I believe, is taken from Lakota culture). I have looked for, but been unable to find, anything to support the idea that Jackson is a "Zen master", and I tend to think that, again, this is the sort of exaggeration laid on by the media and others.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:47 PM on June 15, 2005

The cavs wanted phil before mike brown was even close to taking the job JACKASS!! read between the find print, phil doesnt want to do any reel work You wanna provide a source for that? Or are you just going to rage, rage at the dying of your insight? /shuts ass, puts same in gear

posted by yerfatma at 06:02 AM on June 16, 2005

Hey grumwork, Was I SPEAKING TO YOU!! (no) so shut your ass!!! Just a quick reminder: this is a public forum, not a private chat room, so anything you say is visible to everyone else. I'm not sure if you understand that, since you seem to be upset/surprised that someone else responded to your comment. So if you make a statement that someone else finds illogical or ill-conceived, be prepared to be called out on it.

posted by grum@work at 10:57 AM on June 16, 2005

If you dont like my opinions garfield then dont read it then. DUH... and grumwork, why dont we both see what phil can do now that he really has his WORK cut out for him. Im sure you got nothing to say now, and I wont either about this subject until we see those lakers fail. Yerfatma, my source is ESPN. By the way what is a yerfatma????

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 06:14 PM on June 16, 2005

posted by yerfatma at 07:58 PM on June 16, 2005

And just curious...did it really take you over 30 minutes to figure out what yerfatma's name was? Well, let's see... By the way what is a yerfatma???? posted by Rage Rod 74 at 6:14 PM CST on June 16 Should have known what the name meant. Coming from someone so low that he has to talk about other peoples mother. Your a class act guy. ex.(yerfatma) posted by Rage Rod 74 at 6:48 PM CST on June 16 Unless he took a break to work on his doctoral dissertation, it certainly would appear so.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:10 AM on June 17, 2005

Oh yeah about those 30 minutes, I was watching ESPN news. Not working on my dissertation, lmao.

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 07:17 PM on June 17, 2005

Real funny fellas, lets look at yerfatma. Now thats funny. Its not that I have a problem with people diagreeing with me, Its just that (grunwirk0, cant take a challenge, oh thats right he said he dont care. Then why are you on this story about Phil Jackson? I have no idea what you are talking about. A challenge? What challenge? To watch what happens to the Lakers next season? How is this a "challenge"? I'm "on this story" because I try to read as many of the posted discussions on this site as I can. They used to be interesting discussions about facts and informed opinions. Now...not so much.

posted by grum@work at 02:28 PM on June 18, 2005