September 08, 2014

TMZ has put up enhanced camera footage of the Ray Rice fiance knockout filmed inside the elevator. It does not look good.

posted by beaverboard at 08:28 AM on September 08, 2014

"I thought about my chess story and wondered whether I had somehow played a role, however small, in the selling of a Ray Rice: Great Player & All-Around Great Guy narrative that now seemed so patently false. I thought about whether that said anything about my character, my instincts. I also thought a lot about my two daughters, about one day sending them out into the world and about the men who might someday come into their lives."

posted by yerfatma at 12:36 PM on September 08, 2014

Ray Rice's contract terminated by Ravens

posted by BornIcon at 02:28 PM on September 08, 2014

SXM Fantasy Football tells us how it affects your fantasy team!

posted by yerfatma at 03:01 PM on September 08, 2014

I think this was an overreaction by the Raven's since I'm more than sure they were made aware of what was on the video. It was already known that Ray Rice hit his then-fiance but now that the video of it came out, it's more damning?

IMHO, if it's made apparent that Roger Goodell saw the video, suspended Ray Rice only 2 games and now suspended him indefinitely because the video became public and he can save face for the weak 2 game suspension, I'm going to assume that he'll be out of a job as well.

posted by BornIcon at 03:39 PM on September 08, 2014

The NFL also took action, saying on Twitter that commissioner "Roger Goodell has announced that based on new video evidence that became available today he has indefinitely suspended Ray Rice."

What the fuck did they think happened in the elevator that would cause her to be knocked out and allow him to drag her limp body from the elevator?!

Do they think she took a swing at him, missed, and knocked herself out? Do they think he faked a punch, she flinched, bounced her head off the wall, and knocked herself out?

Unless Goodell is the dumbest motherfucker on the planet, he had a good idea what happened in that elevator (in general terms), so this video shouldn't really have changed anything. The only reason Rice has been suspended is because now the NFL looks REALLY bad for that lame two-game suspension after everyone can see exactly how Rice knocked her out.

posted by grum@work at 04:03 PM on September 08, 2014

$

... all that really matters. Be it NFL, NCAA, ...

One would have to think the NFL, Rice, and the Ravens "people" went to great lengths ensuring this video was never released.

Whoever did release the video is no doubt sitting on a pile of TMZ cash today. Have to wonder whether it was worth it having messed with one of Ray Lewis' crew, however. People who do so have limited life expectancy.

posted by cixelsyd at 04:13 PM on September 08, 2014

The really shitty side notion out of this is that the NFL needed video evidence to corroborate that spousal abuse really was bad enough to warrant an indefinite suspension. He hit her hard enough to knock her out. Regardless whether she hit him back, he's bigger, stronger and trained for violence.

This should be Goodell's time to get the fuck out. The disciplinary system in the NFL is completely void of any attachment to reality or morality. You set the culture, you deal with the fact the culture is one building bullies on and off the field. You're failing, commish.

posted by dfleming at 04:57 PM on September 08, 2014

I love football. I love watching it, I love pouring over stupid stats, I love reading expansive and florid description of great games past and present. The last couple of years have made me feel bad about loving it - like I'm supporting brain damage, spousal abuse, animal abuse, etc when I'm watching. This two game suspension to indefinite ban thing has knocked the last bit of wind out of me. Yesterday was not a bad opening day, but I think I might take the next few Sundays off. I don't imagine I'm the only person feeling this way.

That's going to be Goodell's legacy, I think. Fans walking away - maybe not forever, but for a while.

posted by Joey Michaels at 05:52 PM on September 08, 2014

The last couple of years have made me feel bad about loving it - like I'm supporting brain damage, spousal abuse, animal abuse, etc when I'm watching. This two game suspension to indefinite ban thing has knocked the last bit of wind out of me. Yesterday was not a bad opening day, but I think I might take the next few Sundays off. I don't imagine I'm the only person feeling this way.

You're not. I've been there since the initial lacklustre response. Entertaining as it is, there is a tipping point where the bullshit you have to accept gets to be too much. I passed it with Ray Rice.

posted by dfleming at 06:25 PM on September 08, 2014

If anyone associated with the Ravens saw the elevator video before that tweet they also ought to be suspended from the NFL indefinitely.

posted by cixelsyd at 10:36 PM on September 08, 2014

What the fuck did they think happened in the elevator that would cause her to be knocked out and allow him to drag her limp body from the elevator?!

That was my question as well. Maybe it's due to the FXX Simpsons marathon, but the only extenuating circumstances I can imagine is the fall the French waiter takes that clears Freddy Quimby in "The Boy Who Knew Too Much".

Goodell isn't working out. It's time for the NFL to begin thinking about new leadership.

The problem with that is he isn't working out for us the fans. From the owners' perspective, income is through the roof during his reign.

posted by yerfatma at 09:44 AM on September 09, 2014

Apparently the NFL went only to law enforcement to request the video, not to the Casino, who say they would've gladly shown them the tape.

The NFL seems to operate with the same investigative rigor as my 8-year-old looking for his lunchbox.

"Where's your lunchbox?" (turns in a circle) "I don't know. I guess I lost it." "Is it in your backpack?" "No, I must have lost it." "Why don't you check your backpack?" "Oookaaay, but I probably lost it." (takes lunchbox out of backpack) "Maybe you should actually look next time?" "I guess..."

posted by Etrigan at 11:13 AM on September 09, 2014

I guess I'm the lone wolf here, because I think that:

1. Domestic abuse isn't solely a male on female problem As much as archaic and sexist people like to pretend otherwise, the apparent truth is that domestic abuse is fairly gender neutral, with each gender having roughly equal splits as offenders. I've seen studies suggesting a 40/60 female/male split, as well as ones that suggest more severe physical violence actually skews towards female perpetrators (indeed, apparently lesbian couples have the highest incidence of domestic abuse). It's certainly not unheard of for a woman to physically attack her mate, or to initiate violence, and I for one think the "but a MAN doesn't EVER hit a WOMAN" moral is old-fashioned and incredibly sexist.

So barring more information, it's reasonable to ask if she did in fact start or escalate things; the extended video on TMZ starts with us seeing Ray Rice on his phone by a large pole. His fiance walks up, hits him in the face or chest without apparent provocation, then they head into the elevator, after which she apparently slaps at him again while they were standing by the buttons, he slaps her back, she then comes at him when he delivers the knockout blow. That, at east, is how I see it.

Now, that said, his reaction afterwards is... well I'll admit it's kind of weird because he doesn't look particular... upset? Which makes me wonder if they've been this volatile before, or if he thinks at first she's faking, or whatever. But then, that's me projecting my thoughts of how I'd react, so it's not very meaningful.

2. Don't hit people if you don't want to be hit I mention this as an addendum to the above, only because I think it's important- and perhaps you'll think me a caveman, but if I went up to an NFL player and took a swing, no one would feel bad if I got knocked out. So if you think it's bad when he defends himself from a woman who is slapping at him and coming at him because she's a woman... then you are being sexist.

3. Janay Rice is apparently on Ray Rice's side As much as we might hate to admit it, Janay Rice allegedly went on to say (as BornIcon noted in that deleted tweet) that she regrets the role she played in this whole event. I don't understand why, if that's true, the tweet should have been deleted, or is shameful, other than believing some RadFem nonsense about how all women are Victorian-era delicate flowers and all men- especially black men- are savage beasts of lust and rage.

I don't believe that, so I think it's hardly implausible she genuinely regrets the night. Maybe she does honestly feel she did things to provoke him until he finally slapped/hit back. Or maybe she just wants this to go away, since as he is now her husband she certainly doesn't want their household taking such a severe financial hit. And she didn't seem to hesitate to continue with the wedding, so this may have been a one-off event that hadn't happened before or since and thus she forgave him whatever sins she feels he committed- or she may feel she instigated things and now they've escalated beyond her control.

This doesn't excuse his actions- or hers- and obviously the state has a vested interest in pursuing domestic violence investigations despite the protestations of an alleged victim (because there could be additional force involved in making them ecant, or change their story, or want charges dropped). But to me, it suggests- along with the video- that Janay Rice thinks this was at worst an isolated incident, and one she may or may not have provoked in some fashion, and therefore the law felt that a first-time offense would be best addressed by mandating court-supervised counseling and dropping the charges.

In other words, if Ray and Janay and the police and the courts think this is a settled issue (unless it happens again), then why should the NFL be suspending Ray Rice additionally, months later, just because a sleazy online tabloid wants to milk it for a little more ad revenue?

4. The NFL is not a legal, investigative body The other "scandal" is that the NFL is to blame because they "only" talked to law enforcement and thus didn't get the more complete video... why, exactly, is that bad?!? Shouldn't law enforcement *be* the experts on conducting a thorough criminal investigation? I'd hope the police would talk to the casino and get all relevant media, such that the NFL then asking the police for video would reasonably be as broad a request as expected. So why the idea that the NFL fucked up or covered things up by not, I don't know, guessing that there was extra video and requesting it? They aren't an investigative body, that's what the police and courts are meant to address.

There are allegations that some in the NFL office did know about the extended video, but unless I missed some damning piece of evidence, we don't know for a fact that Goodell or others had seen the video at the time the 2-game suspension was handed down. Further, I still maintain that the video isn't as damning as you'd think; we see them have an altercation that- from the video- she started or participated in; Goodell may have seen it, and said "Well, she swung at him, this is messy, we'll give a token PR suspension but otherwise let the courts handle it". Which... I only disagree with from the perspective of handing out any suspension.

5. Terribly unpopular opinion: why should the NFL do anything? Here is, I guess, my really unpopular opinion: why, exactly, does the NFL have to do anything here? The law investigated, rendered a verdict, and the involved parties have moved on. So why does the NFL have to revisit the issue, or extend their sentence?

I am genuinely frightened by this trend of the last few years in our online/offline world mingling, and I don't think it's a good trend for us to be living our lives in a Tumblr-driven, "Social (In)Justice" world where your every action is echo-chambered and every company and individual you interact with is required to shame and shun you to the greatest degree if the Internet Hate Machine has decided you are the public enemy of the day. At its worst, it's 4chan et al harassing to a criminal degree people who are innocent of the alleged crimes; even at its best, while things like Steubenville or animal torturers are tracked down because of the I.H.M., it still bypasses due process and is grotesquely uncivilized.

The legal system and due process addressed this Ray Rice/Janay Rice incident to the apparent satisfaction of everyone directly involved. The argument to support an indefinite suspension is that the NFL should take action against Rice... because otherwise they'll take a PR hit from "some people"... who think they should take action against Rice... lest they get a PR hit. It's all a circle jerk of righteous intolerance and manufactured outrage, and it's made me so disgusted with the state of the world. We have become the practitioners of "two-minutes of hate" Orwell predicted, and we fucking like it that way.

If law enforcement's pursuit of the case is such that the person is unable to maintain their job, that's one thing; if Rice goes to jail then obviously he can't play, thus nullifying elements of his contract. This was the bullshit reason why Barry Bonds couldn't even get a league-minimum contract in the few years after his final game; that at some point he'd be arraigned, tried, convicted, and jailed and thus wasn't worth "the risk".

But why should Rice's current employer take a stance at all, or suspend him- when he hasn't been convicted in anything but the court of public opinion- a kangaroo court whose only evidence was a shorter, and now this longer, video? The legal system initially claimed the video supported that both people were engaged in violence, and then indicted Rice, then dropped the charges in lieu of court-ordered counseling. His fiance/now-wife has blasted the media's focus, has (allegedly) "apologized" for her part in the events, and they've gotten married and moved on.

I hope Rice and the NFL Player's Union tackle this, because I don't see where the NFL gets off handing out belated, follow-up, indefinite suspensions just to satisfy public opinion on some viral hate-mongering.

posted by hincandenza at 01:06 AM on September 10, 2014

hincandenza, you and I have gone at it a few times here, but I've always at least respected you as a human being. That is no longer the case. Fourteen hundred words on why it's not really that bad that a professional athlete knocked a fellow human being unconscious and dragged her out of an elevator by the hair, and it's somehow everyone else's fault that he lost his job?

*plonk*

posted by Etrigan at 09:46 AM on September 10, 2014

Many women who are victims of domestic violence and stay with their abusers often recant their accusations or defend the abuser. There's a deeply dysfunctional psychology that plays out in these relationships.

That. That one thousand times over. Plus add the fact that if Mrs. Rice acknowledges that she is the victim of brutal domestic violence, her husband stands to lose tens of millions of dollars. Think Mr. Rice's PR team had anything to do with her decision?

I've said it before here. I am a part-time prosecutor who only deals in domestic battery. I don't know where your statistics come from hincandenza, but my experience tells a drastically different story. For every woman I charge with DomBat, I charge 10 or more men.

And of course, the true overarching rule of life should be "don't hit people. Period." But as others have pointed out, archaic or not, the further rule that "a man never hits a woman" was borne out of the drastic disparity in our physiological makeup. Ray Rice probably has 80-100 pounds on Janay Rice, professional athlete or not. I'm not a big guy at 190 pounds, but I have 70 pounds on my wife. If she chooses to hit me, if I can't figure out a way to restrain her without knocking her out, I can probably figure out a way to get the fuck out of the room. So the line of "it's not fair, she hit first" sounds like the plea of a petulant bully.

posted by tahoemoj at 11:45 AM on September 10, 2014

"Because, the truth is, the NFL will never respect women and their opinions as long as the media it answers to doesn't."

posted by yerfatma at 02:21 PM on September 10, 2014

Yeah, I always was hoping this place would eventually turn into the cesspit of groupspeak that Metafilter became. Lord knows, no one who replied seemed to do more than cherry speak key quotes and strawman the shit out of this.

Plonk, indeed.

posted by hincandenza at 05:06 PM on September 10, 2014

AP: Law enforcement official says NFL had Ray Rice video in April

posted by BornIcon at 06:04 PM on September 10, 2014

Awaiting a vote of confidence or two in Goodell from the likes of Snyder, Hunt, or Haslam, which should seal the deal.

posted by beaverboard at 08:36 PM on September 10, 2014

5. Terribly unpopular opinion: why should the NFL do anything? Here is, I guess, my really unpopular opinion: why, exactly, does the NFL have to do anything here? The law investigated, rendered a verdict, and the involved parties have moved on. So why does the NFL have to revisit the issue, or extend their sentence?

They have to do something because they started "doing something" about it years ago.

My personal opinion is that many, many years ago the NFL made a HUGE mistake by deciding to apply punishment for actions that occurred outside the game and had nothing to do with the NFL.

The smart move when the first player was charged with DUI (or possession of dope or whatever crime) would have been to have the NFL commissioner to release a statement that said, essentially, all external criminal matters are for the courts. If the fans say "But he should be punished!", don't do it. Leave it up to the criminal courts to decide, and let the team decide if they want that player on their roster.

However, the NFL decided to be judge and jury about extra-league matters, and once that boulder started to roll down the hill, it can't be stopped now. Once you punish one player for something outside the game, how do you not punish the next one? Or the one after that?

And at what point will the NFL not punish a player? What if a player gets charged with tax evasion? Or illegal garbage dumping? Or 3rd degree public intoxication?

That said, I'm perfectly happy to see Roger Goodell get lambasted with negative public opinion for his role in all this. He seemed to relish the role of hanging judge, and now he's the one that's looking straight at the guillotine....

posted by grum@work at 12:04 AM on September 11, 2014

No, I figured I'd get plenty of disagreement since there was uniformity about how awful Goodell handed this, and why Rice should go, etc... not things like Etrigan saying he'd add me to his killfille. I thought this was a place where, so long as we weren't personally attacking each other, civil discourse and disagreement was possible. "plonk" is so classically MeFi, and I'm sad to see it here.

And I wish you wouldn't put words in my mouth, grum; you're better than that. You even stated my key point yourself just above: "many, many years ago the NFL made a HUGE mistake by deciding to apply punishment for actions that occurred outside the game and had nothing to do with the NFL". That was at the heart of my post: it had been dealt with as a criminal matter, and the NFL shouldn't even have gotten involved in the first place, much less months later just because of one media outlet. grum, you even opined on how the NFL should have handled these issues from the very beginning with a hands-off approach, and there's no reason they can't start doing. We very much agree on that point: the NFL shouldn't be involved in this or other criminal/civil matters that are off the field.

Further, I'm really not a fan of this broader trend in recent years, this PR-driven idea that until the angry twittering hordes have been sated in their lust for vengeance and biblical retribution, you simply must keep punishing private individuals in some publicly visible way. I mean, the courts already investigated this and handed down a verdict and judgment, and the couple themselves seemed to have moved on. That we're even revisiting this publicly, or with the NFL, seems ridiculous to me. You all can say that's how it is, but I'm saying that's not how it should be.

Lastly, the point I was making that people seem most het up about is that domestic violence is not a one-sided affair, whatever the exact stats, and that no one should have to suffer from domestic abuse simply because of their size or gender. I'm not suggesting if someone attacks you that you get to go medieval on their ass way beyond the point of deflecting/stopping the attack, but throwing a punch when someone comes at you is almost instinctual, and provided that's all it is- one punch- it's justifiable even if there's a huge disparity in size. That's what I saw on this recent video; as she comes at him he jabs out, she goes down instantly, and he doesn't keep hitting her. I even stated that I was a little concerned that he seemed unpanicked at her being out cold, but not being privy to all the details wasn't going to project ideas into Ray Rice's head.

Shit happens when people start fighting, that's why people should avoid starting fights (whoever started this fight, we may never fully know). But people still cling to these gender roles and ideas about male strength and an almost Victorian-era believe in the fragility of women such that they believe a grown woman should be able to freak out an attack anyone, so long as they're larger- the person attacked simply has to take it. Hell, when women attack men, even violently, it's a friggin' punchline, like we saw with the Solange/Jay-Z situation.

There's a clear double standard at work when it comes to male and female violence that I call "incredibly sexist". For example, we have Hope Solo arrested for attacking her sister and underage nephew back in June, and she's still on the playing field, setting records, while she awaits a November trial. So why is that not more of an outrage? You have a 32-year-old finely conditioned physical athlete in peak condition getting drunk and beating up two civilians in a domestic abuse case, yet she's not even suspended while the trial looms. But Ray Rice is re-suspended indefinitely by the NFL, even after they already suspended him, and even after his legal issues were resolved in what I'd say is the only meaningful arena, the court system.

Why?

posted by hincandenza at 01:42 AM on September 11, 2014

There's a clear double standard at work when it comes to male and female violence that I call "incredibly sexist".

I don't see anyone defending domestic violence by women. You have a good point about Hope Solo being treated differently within her sport by not being suspended ahead of a criminal punishment, but the biggest reason for less public outrage is that women's soccer has a much lower profile than the NFL.

As for the rest, I vehemently disagree with the idea that throwing a punch is "almost instinctual" or justifiable in any circumstance in a domestic situation. A punch isn't a defensive act; it's an offensive one. It does not defuse a situation, it escalates it.

When you rationalize that Rice's punch might be defensible because it was just one punch and she hit him too, it makes me question whether you've ever known a woman who was a victim of domestic violence. There are a lot of men beating on their much smaller, much weaker female partners. To me, that trend matters far more than all these other things you'd rather us condemn, like the NFL using disciplinary policies for PR damage control.

posted by rcade at 08:13 AM on September 11, 2014

And I wish you wouldn't put words in my mouth, grum; you're better than that. You even stated my key point yourself just above: "many, many years ago the NFL made a HUGE mistake by deciding to apply punishment for actions that occurred outside the game and had nothing to do with the NFL". That was at the heart of my post:

I agreed with you. I don't think the NFL should have to do anything about this, if they hadn't already set a precedent.

Not everyone that responded to your post disagreed with all your points, and you shouldn't assume you are under attack all the time.

For example, we have Hope Solo arrested for attacking her sister and underage nephew back in June, and she's still on the playing field, setting records, while she awaits a November trial. So why is that not more of an outrage?

Does the US Women's Soccer Team have a history of suspending their players for incidents outside the field of play? If not, then I don't see what the double standard is about this. As for "public outrage" about her crimes, this is the first I've heard of it. As was mentioned above, are you expecting people to be outraged about a lower-tier sport that plays only sporadically (and rarely on TV), compared to the most popular sport in all of America that plays 3 nights a week on the highest rated television broadcasts?

Do you think assaults committed by Frontier League baseball players should get the same news headlines and public outcry as those committed by MLB players?

posted by grum@work at 10:14 AM on September 11, 2014

I don't think the NFL should have to do anything about this, if they hadn't already set a precedent.

I agree with this as well and I think it's gong to be difficult to ever go back now. I don't know that it will ever happen at this point. I do know that this case would probably not be the best time to wash your hands of dispensing discipline.

Further, I'm really not a fan of this broader trend in recent years, this PR-driven idea that until the angry twittering hordes have been sated in their lust for vengeance and biblical retribution, you simply must keep punishing private individuals in some publicly visible way.

This bugs me even when I think the person who Twitter's Eye of Sauron is gazing at is deserving of scorn. I'm here for the protest but then it starts turning into a mob, flipping over cars and breaking in windows, and suddenly I'm not so keen on the cause.

There's a clear double standard at work when it comes to male and female violence that I call "incredibly sexist".

I guess I'm fine with the double standard. I don't think it's a product of sexism, I think it's a product of the reality of men being generally bigger and more capable of causing physical damage. If I seeing it become more of a problem going the other way I'll change my view.

posted by tron7 at 01:02 PM on September 11, 2014

And then he started kicking her

I don't recall seeing that but I only saw the video once but I haven't heard that he kicked her while she was unconscious. I do remember that when she was down, he had a look of disdain as if he was even more pissed that she was unconscious and was standing over her like he just trucked a FS to move the chains.

This entire situation went from bad to worse in 60 seconds even though as Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome said, Ray Rice told the truth about what happened in the elevator, so should it matter if anyone from the NFL saw the video or not?

Rice was suspended 2 games, Goodell changed the rules after the fact and said that anyone charged with domestic violence would be suspended 6 games. What I don't get is if Ray Rice told the truth, was suspended 2 games, the video is then leaked by TMZ and then he's released from his contract and suspended indefinitely by the NFL, how can Goodell's actions be justified?

Of course Ray Rice should've been suspended by the league and if he was suspended for 6 games or a year I think most would say that it was deserved and would've been okay with it. However, I believe that Goodell's actions are a reaction to the video being released for all to see and that is not a sign of leadership for someone in his position of power.

posted by BornIcon at 02:07 PM on September 11, 2014

Exactly my point. So why not suspend Rice for 6 games games as per new rules after the video was released? If Rice told the truth about what happened as Ozzie Newsome confirmed, how is suspending Rice indefinitely the correct thing to do? I assumed that he suspended Rice indefinitely because Rice lied but that doesn't seem to be the case. Something just doesn't add up.

posted by BornIcon at 02:26 PM on September 11, 2014

If Rice told the truth about what happened as Ozzie Newsome confirmed, how is suspending Rice indefinitely the correct thing to do?

I think the answer to that lies in the truth that Roger Goodell and the NFL don't really give a flying fuck about domestic abuse. Roger Goodell and the NFL do, however, give a giant fuck about the image of the league. So, when Rice was a guy who had hit his wife, it warranted 2 games. When Rice became a guy who had hit his wife on camera, the league invoked its right to disassociate itself from the person who had given it a publicity black eye.

To review: women with black eyes--2 games. Leagues with black eyes--indefinite. Does it add up now?

posted by tahoemoj at 02:34 PM on September 11, 2014

To review: women with black eyes--2 games. Leagues with black eyes--indefinite. Does it add up now?

Sums it up for sure!

posted by BornIcon at 02:46 PM on September 11, 2014

If you're interested in statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice, this PDF might be useful.

posted by Joey Michaels at 06:34 PM on September 11, 2014

Interesting story today casting further doubt on the idea the NFL never saw the video before this week:

"A former NFL team security director who does not want to be identified told CBS News that in his career, there was never a case where he sought surveillance tapes from hotels, nightclubs or local law enforcement and did not obtain it."

Every NFL team hires a security director. A job description of the position states that duties include "personal visits to local casinos, night clubs, etc. requesting the cooperation of the establishments' management in the event a player or team employee is perceived as a potential problem."

posted by rcade at 10:12 AM on September 12, 2014

That's how I read it. The job reminds me of what the title character does on Showtime's Ray Donovan. He gets a call when a mega-rich client in Hollywood does something criminal or massively stupid and cleans it up before the press gets involved.

posted by rcade at 12:09 PM on September 12, 2014