04/20/24
September 14, 2009
Ichiro breaks 108 year old record: With another 200 in the hit bank, Ichiro surpasses a Hall of Famer who has one of the more famous nicknames in baseball history, "Wee" Willie Keeler, who did it from 1894-1901 for the Brooklyn Dodgers franchise.
As a primary offender in the Serena debacle (with respect to SpoFi), I apologize and am with you, BoKnows.
Saw this headline earlier today and was most impressed/intrigued. Ichiro is one of the most under appreciated players in the game IMO. Not sure if it's because he was already a vet when he joined the MLB, whether there is a hint of racism involved being the first superstar Asian player in the MLB, or the fact that he doesn't play in New York or Boston, but he has never received his due.
I too wonder about the lack of immediate accolades on SpoFi.
posted by MW12 at 09:07 PM on September 14, 2009
Well...you mentioned it. That's the great thing about SpoFi: if you see something cool happen in the world of sport, you can share it. I honestly had no idea that this happened, so thanks for posting it.
I love this:
"To get to enjoy this with these teammates I have, and especially that guy over there makes me very joyful," Ichiro said.
After the M's 5-0 victory, teammates soaked Ichiro in beer (hope it was Sapporo) after Ken Griffey slung him over his shoulder and carried him to the shower.
posted by NoMich at 09:08 PM on September 14, 2009
Great player and future Hall of Famer. Congrats Ichiro!
posted by BornIcon at 09:18 PM on September 14, 2009
Ichiro was a pretty big deal when he arrived. I think that the non-receipt of his due is probably because he's not a power hitter.
posted by rcade at 09:18 PM on September 14, 2009
Being in Seattle doesn't help, either. This would be getting major headlines if he were in NYC or Boston, I reckon.
posted by jmd82 at 09:21 PM on September 14, 2009
I think that the non-receipt of his due is probably because he's not a power hitter.
Could a power hitter have the chance to even break this record?
posted by BoKnows at 09:30 PM on September 14, 2009
Could a power hitter have the chance to even break this record?
Not as likely, given the fact Ichiro isn't pitched around the way, say, Albert Pujols is.
posted by dfleming at 09:48 PM on September 14, 2009
As a statistical point to that effect, Ichiro's had 6027 at bats, 406 walks and a .333 average in his 9 years. Pujols has had 5080 at bats, 801 walks and a .334 average.
posted by dfleming at 09:51 PM on September 14, 2009
That said, it's pretty sad that an achievement like Ichiro's goes somewhat unnoticed simply because he only puts the ball in play.
posted by BoKnows at 10:27 PM on September 14, 2009
Further, the big boys don't pad their RBI totals without guys like Ichiro batting in front of them. Congratulations to him for breaking a pretty impressive record.
posted by tahoemoj at 10:57 PM on September 14, 2009
Reminds me of this story (with extensive commentary from Warren Moon of all people) after he broke 3,000 pro hits. It seems likely he would have hit more in MLB than he did in Japan, considering his hitting rate is higher here, and they play about 30 fewer games/season there. Which means, he would have something like 15 straight 200 hit seasons, all else being equal, which it isn't.
posted by rumple at 11:47 PM on September 14, 2009
I got a kick out of the following quote from this article:
"One thing I was preparing for was for Junior not to get the 200-hit ball because he would write silly things on it," Ichiro said. "But he did get the ball and he did write silly things on it."
posted by holden at 11:53 PM on September 14, 2009
I've always liked Ichiro. Despite being interested in Red Sox and Orioles, I've always considered Seattle my team as I can pick up their home game radio broadcasts in northern Alberta on my truly epic radio.
What sort of schedule did they play in Wee Willie's day?
A NICE sports story. That's two in the last month! (The other being Fisichella getting his dream drive with Ferrari.)
God, it's enough to make a grown man cry.
More of this sort of thing. Less of the spoiled brat Serena bullshit.
posted by Drood at 12:45 AM on September 15, 2009
What sort of schedule did they play in Wee Willie's day?
They played about 30 less games than MLB does now.
Stats for Willy.
Stats for Ichiro.
posted by BoKnows at 01:01 AM on September 15, 2009
My knowledge of baseball didn't go back that far.
Totally forgot Baseball Reference existed. D'OH!
posted by Drood at 01:27 AM on September 15, 2009
That said, it's pretty sad that an achievement like Ichiro's goes somewhat unnoticed simply because he only puts the ball in play.
It is. It's a combination of the lack of Hollywood in a single and the lack of, well, national coverage of his team. It reminds me of when Jesse Orosco broke the games pitched record; a middle reliever, on a nationally insignificant team, breaking a record doesn't grab people the way that the home run derby does.
Heck, I had to check online to make sure that Ichiro was still playing this year; I hadn't seen him on Sportscenter in a while and was curious if he'd returned to Japan or something. That's sad.
posted by dfleming at 07:29 AM on September 15, 2009
posted by yerfatma at 09:47 AM on September 15, 2009
Really? Not a mention of this record being broken on Sportsfilter? I guess you are all still talking about Serena, huh? Yeesh.
Well not me, boyo. I actually had nothing to do with the "women's tennis discussion". Plus, I had other stuff to do than comment on stuff on my computey.
It's interesting that there is something of a minor issue being made of this record's irrelevance and why that is. As a Seattle fan, It had been in the prospects since the beginning of the season, given Ichiro's track record for 200 hit seasons. Also as a Seattle fan I realize that the rest of the country pays little attention to our part of the country, which is OK with me. You should all stay in your parts of the country. But to say that Ichiro's acheivement is lessened because he doesn't have power numbers is to kind of overlook some of the fundamentals of baseball, which Ichiro is one of the games finest examples. He's a lead-off hitter and that is what he does, arguably, as good if not better than anyone else in the game. I consider myself lucky indeed to have gotten to see him play for nine seasons right here. I just wish that we had better teams to put around him so that he could be seen by the national baseball fan more prominently and they could witness the tremendous gifts that he has as a hitter, baserunner and fielder.
posted by THX-1138 at 11:26 AM on September 15, 2009
It seems like a lot of records are pretty manufactured these days, on some of them you can smell the database query still -- "record doubles by a rookie switchhitter" or "teams with most wins in OT since 1945" stuff, and are designed to just show off geekylove more than anything. This particular "record" is borderline -- it seems like a way to celebrate Ichiro, which is great, but as far as being a notable record in its own right, well, it is not very engaging one I find - impressive that such a thing has not been done in 100 years, of course, but great records are self-evident in my simple mind. (And as a denizen of the SW corner of the Great White North, if I have a baseball team it's Seattle and certainly Ichiro is deserving of a lot more love than he gets!)
posted by rumple at 12:01 PM on September 15, 2009
So what was more impressive? Ichiro breaking a record that stood for over 100 years or Derek Jeter breaking Lou DiMaggio's 70 year old record for hits by a Yankee?
posted by BornIcon at 12:24 PM on September 15, 2009
Ichiro, BI. And if the Yankees played the Mariners I would root for the Yankees, just to put my bias out there.
posted by billsaysthis at 12:27 PM on September 15, 2009
Ichiro, since league records are more impressive than team ones, all things considered. I mean, Ichiro also holds the Mariner's team record for consecutive 200 hit seasons (and I didn't have to look that up, even)
posted by rumple at 12:32 PM on September 15, 2009
I am a complete homer but I don't get how the record for most consecutive 200 hit seasons is borderline. I think it is indicative of just how great he is at the plate. Consistently.
posted by THX-1138 at 01:28 PM on September 15, 2009
BornIcon...was that a "tongue in cheek" error naming "Lou Dimaggio" as the record holder Jeter broke? No doubt Ichiro would have gotten lots more media coverage had he been palying in The Big Apple... despite that kudos to him where ever he plays..he just plays the game...
posted by wildbill1 at 01:34 PM on September 15, 2009
BornIcon...was that a "tongue in cheek" error naming "Lou Dimaggio"
DiMaggio, Gehrig...whatever. It's the Yankees so nobody really noticed or cared...well, at least I didn't.
I wish I could say that I did that on purpose but I would be full of shit...more so than usual
posted by BornIcon at 02:22 PM on September 15, 2009
Every year, I keep half an eye on Seattle to see if they have a chance of the playoffs. I hope that Ichiro has a chance to make it back to the postseason, given the Pyrrhic character of that 116-win first season with the Mariners.
I'll go with it being a borderline record, but anything that celebrates Ichiro's gloriously idiosyncratic MLB career is fine by me. Having played half of his career in Japan, he's not going hit the standard career marks for longevity and consistency -- the 3,000 hit club, the various Rickey Henderson records. If that means reaching back for a record that gives Ichiro his fair due as a player, then so be it.
posted by etagloh at 02:23 PM on September 15, 2009
I don't get how the record for most consecutive 200 hit seasons is borderline
Because it's an arbitrary record. Should we be excited for the fact he broke the 6, 7 and 8 year records? I'm with Rob Neyer's in the post I linked above. If you have to explain what the record is, it's not really a big deal. "Most hits" is something. "Most times doing x in this arbitrary time period" isn't. Not to take anything away from Ichiro's 9 consecutive 200 hit seasons1, just that trying to act like it's a record people have been waiting to see fall is silly.
1. If I wanted to do that I'd suggest the reason he gets to 200 hits and the reason he gets less recognition than people in the thread feel he should is because he doesn't walk much. 4 of those 200 hit season resulted in an OPS under 800. Admittedly he came into the league at age 27, but WWK has him on OPS+ during their streaks.
posted by yerfatma at 02:28 PM on September 15, 2009
I am a complete homer but I don't get how the record for most consecutive 200 hit seasons is borderline. I think it is indicative of just how great he is at the plate. Consistently.
It is both -- it's not really much of a record I don't think, or its on the slippery slope from traditional records to the absurd MYSQL records generated nowadays (and of which, ironically, Neyer is a key offender the few times Ive read his stuff), and yet it is truly a good metric of how good he is.
posted by rumple at 03:59 PM on September 15, 2009
...trying to act like it's a record people have been waiting to see fall is silly
What you mean? I been waiting all year long for this hallowed record to fall and when it came down to Ichiro getting that 1 hit to break it...I fell asleep. *sigh*
posted by BornIcon at 04:02 PM on September 15, 2009
The lack of notice of Suzuki's achievement is due mainly to its having happened in Seattle. This is true for 2 reasons. First, there is the obvious one of time zone issues and the fact that you just don't see that many West Coast teams' games in the media centers of the northeast. The second reason, not so obvious and certainly to the credit and not detriment of the people of Seattle, is that the denizens of the Emerald City are not really all that passionate about their professional teams. When I lived there, the people would rather be out sailing, hiking, or doing any of the things in which they could participate and not just watch. It's not that they don't care, but there are better things to do.
By the way, doing something very well over a long period of time is, to me, more noteworthy than a one-time record.
posted by Howard_T at 04:06 PM on September 15, 2009
OK, I get it. This record doesn't mean as much to the rest of the country as it does to us in the NW. But that seems to be on a par with a lot of subjects. Call it our own regional bias.
And Howard, I think the NW sports fan has become a little more passionate about the local teams since we actually lost one of them.
posted by THX-1138 at 04:39 PM on September 15, 2009
By the way, doing something very well over a long period of time is, to me, more noteworthy than a one-time record
Jeter or Ichiro? I mean, both records were about those specific players doing something well over a long period of time.
posted by BornIcon at 04:42 PM on September 15, 2009
It's an impressive feat to be sure, but yerfatma's right. It's not a record in the classic sense. So I wouldn't take it as a lack of notice or respect.
I don't think Ichiro is underrated either. He gets his props. All-Stars, Gold Gloves, MVP, and he's going to be a Hall of Famer. Everyone likes him.
Jeter's record is interesting in that he passed a legend from a legendary team and was a "most" record. And I am always surprised that the Yankees never had a guy hit 3,000 with them. I always just thought that was the case. Anyone else have a 3,000 hitter the whole time with one club outside of St. Louis with Musial? I would think the names would just roll off the tongue, but I can't think of any others. Oh crap - Ty Cobb/Detroit - obviously. Did Al Kaline do it too? I think he did. And my other guesses are Robin Yount, Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken and I can't think of any others.
Clemente, George Brett and Yaztremski. Ok I looked it up. Wow - more than I would have thought.
Anyway - no Yankee ever had 3,000 hits. Odd that.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:59 PM on September 15, 2009
Anyway - no Yankee ever had 3,000 hits. Odd that.
The Yankees like to buy'em ripe, and sell'em rotten.....
posted by rumple at 08:04 PM on September 15, 2009
"Most hits" is something. "Most times doing x in this arbitrary time period" isn't.
Well, we could call it a "first", I suppose.
posted by mjkredliner at 10:24 AM on September 16, 2009
Right, but everything you've ever seen has had a first time. How do you define the criteria for which "firsts" matter?
posted by yerfatma at 03:31 PM on September 16, 2009
Right, but everything you've ever seen has had a first time. How do you define the criteria for which "firsts" matter?
No player in major league history has racked up more consecutive 200-hit seasons than Ichiro, whose infield single against the Texas Rangers in the second inning Sunday night made it a clean nine for nine.
A pretty amazing first, if ya ask me. It reeks of incredible consistency.
posted by mjkredliner at 04:54 PM on September 16, 2009
I agree, mjk, but I guess I and you must be out of step with the rest of the baseball fans.
posted by THX-1138 at 05:02 PM on September 16, 2009
I don't hear any baseball fans denying he is a hitting genius, just that this particular accomplishment is a bit of a soul-less measure of that. I think the case could be made much more strongly that when he set the single season hit record ( a "real record, IMHO, and one that had stood since 1920) a few years ago that, while it got a lot of attention, it would have got far, far more had he been a Yankee, Red Sock [what is a singular Red Sox anyway?], or Cub.
I didn't realize he has missed so many games this year, 202 hits in 129 games is not too shabby and must project to be one of his better seasons.
I am pretty far from a stathead, but this table is remarkable. For most hits in a season, looking at the top 12 seasons of all time, two are by Ichiro, and all the other ten are between 1911 and 1930. Doubly remarkable since there have been over 40 years of 162 game seasons to beat those early 20th century figures. But baseball goes in cycles, and note that Darren Erstad had the 13th best-ever season recently.
Also, striking to me: almost all of the top scores are lefties. It's a game of inches I guess. I knew that was an advantage but cool to see it so graphically demonstrated.
posted by rumple at 08:41 PM on September 16, 2009
Really? Not a mention of this record being broken on Sportsfilter? I guess you are all still talking about Serena, huh? Yeesh.