July 22, 2009

I agree that TW's tirades are often a bit much, but coming from Reilly this seems a bit sketchy. It felt like Reilly's column was written to try to find a way to criticize TW. TW's antics have been well known for a while; did he have no better ideas?

posted by brainofdtrain at 04:58 PM on July 22, 2009

Yeah, I don't really care for the fact it's Reilly doing the talking here, but I do have to agree with much of what is said. Regardless of how dominating Woods has been, and regardless of how successful he'll be in the future (at least when compared to other golfers of the present), I seriously doubt he's immune to the idea of having to change aspects of his game as he ages. When he was younger and golf was pretty much all he had to focus on in his life, I don't think the tantrums were anything he couldn't overcome practically 100 percent of the time. I'm not ever going to be totally convinced he can put these things behind him like that anymore. He's not beyond having to keep the mental part of his game in check in order to play his best golf. I'm not talking about losing his edge by any means. But with his talent, being able to keep his temper at an even level after bad shots and totally concentrate on the shot coming up may keep him from experiencing some of the blow-up rounds he's had lately that have taken him out of contention. I'm not totally convinced all his (for him) struggles are due to his surgery. Many older golfers used to say the true test of Tiger's staying power with regards to his chase to be the all-time leader in Major tournament wins is how he handles life when he's got a wife and kids, not just himself, on his mind.

Plus the tantrums do look more and more stupid the older he gets.

posted by dyams at 05:29 PM on July 22, 2009

Thanks for the correction.

Woods carries himself with class through most of his life, which makes his occasional tantrums surprising to me. People who rant and rave after a bad shot on the golf course look like chumps. That's true whether you're a weekend duffer trying to score under triple digits or the best player in the game.

posted by rcade at 06:01 PM on July 22, 2009

Only one great player ever threw clubs as a pro -- Bobby Jones

Reilly has never heard of Tommy 'Thunder' Bolt, I guess. As funny as the quotes attributed to Bolt are, and as hard as I have laughed over the years seeing my pals throw tantrums on the golf course, I gotta agree with Reilly that it looks just plain boorish when Tiger does it, particularly since he does influence so many of todays younger golfers. For someone who is so strong mentally, it should be a rather minor attitude adjustment for him to learn to handle the bad shots as well as the good with equal aplomb.

posted by mjkredliner at 07:14 PM on July 22, 2009

By now Taga should be able to avoid taking it out on the equipment and simply belt out a blue streak in Swedish when things go wrong.

Only a few people would know what he's saying, and when he got off the course, his spouse would be able to soothe his ills with a double measure of aquavit.

Right now his biggest problem is his branding graphics. That TW logo looks like it was done in a military school introductory drafting class in the 1930's.

posted by beaverboard at 08:47 PM on July 22, 2009

Tiger has the ability to drill every tee shot right down the pipe and stick every approach tight to the pin - and he knows it. So when he mishits a ball, even by a small margin, he's irritated by it. I understand that.

Now, I don't know Tiger, so my opinion is an assumption, by imagine knowing that you can do something as well as Tiger can play golf, a small mental error would drive you nuts.

I side with Tiger on this one, he's only being human. I see no reason for him to restrain his passion and love for the game in order to appease the old school purists that expect robot-like behavior on the course.

posted by BoKnows at 02:15 AM on July 23, 2009

I think Rick Reilly is right on with that article....except Bobby Jones was never a professional. He was an amateur his whole career. For those of you who think that Tiger's tantrums don't disrespect the game or the players he's with, then you don't know the game. If you're playing with a club thrower or a constant screamer of profanity(or both), it's embarrassing to watch and be around. And as a role model, he owes it to those who try to emulate his every move to be a "gentleman" and take the bad with the good. There's not a professional golfer (or amateur) out there that doesn't get pissed off - but those who have a proper respect for the game, keep their anger to themselves. i.e Tom Watson. I don't care what "fire" Tiger has burning inside - he needs to get some control. As someone else pointed out, he's mastered everything else about the game, he should have enough discipline to control his on-course antics. Yes, Tommy "Thunder" Bolt was an angry man on the course, but he's not one of the all time greats. Reilly's not suggesting that Tiger's the only one who pounds clubs and cusses, he's just saying that Tiger's more visible than most and as such, he should be aware of that and act accordingly. And yes, the camera is on Tiger more than others, but if you follow Tiger at a tournament, he's always spitting, and cussing and pounding the ground with his clubs.....even if he's way out front. And for those of you who think Rick Reilly isn't a credible source, he's an avid golfer who follows the Tour and has been a sports writer for years. He's caddied a few times for pros during a tour event and knows his way around a golf course just fine. His observations and opinions are as valuable and credible as any sports writer out there.

posted by DvonR at 10:26 AM on July 23, 2009

He should think of the children, particularly since he now has two of his own. Would he let them throw tantrums when they play sports? He's not the only golfer who knows how much he screwed up when he hits a bad shot.

posted by rcade at 10:48 AM on July 23, 2009

Parents can still teach their kids that they shouldn't do it.

"Do as I say, not as I do" is lousy parenting. The only thing that teaches a kid is that you don't have to live by your own principles.

posted by rcade at 11:45 AM on July 23, 2009

For all of you condoning Tiger's actions, the next time your child drops the F-bomb in the grocery store or throws a bat at the ball field, I hope you won't raise a finger or your voice.

You shouldn't hold your children to standards you don't think are attainable by grown-ups.

Or, exactly what rcade said a minute ago. :P

posted by wfrazerjr at 12:21 PM on July 23, 2009

I'll add this also -- yes, as a parent I have every right and responsibility to teach my children to learn from Tiger's poor example, and tell them, "No, you shouldn't do what Tiger does."

But if you're going to back this, can you then also complain about Reilly writing this column? Isn't that talking out of both sides of your mouth?

posted by wfrazerjr at 12:32 PM on July 23, 2009

One note: I think Tiger Woods has been an exemplary role model in most of his conduct. When I raised the question about his charitable efforts earlier, I was not one of those who thought he did too little, and I came away from that discussion more impressed by him. It's just these occasional bad-shot tantrums that I question.

posted by rcade at 12:37 PM on July 23, 2009

Baseball players break bats over their knees, managers come out to argue and use every word in the book. As do umpires. Hockey players. coaches and referees drop f-bombs all game long, break sticks over goal posts and throw water bottles in the penalty box. Much the same can be said for situations in both the NBA and NFL.

But for some reason we want to single out Tiger and give the others a free pass? Or, maybe not a free pass, but we just won't talk about them?

For all of you condoning Tiger's actions, the next time your child drops the F-bomb in the grocery store or throws a bat at the ball field, I hope you won't raise a finger or your voice.

If you don't think kids are learning from his occasional tirades, I don't know what to say to you.

Even with the mindset like mine, which is not using Tiger as the pincushion, parents do still have the ability to teach right from wrong. Just because I don't publicly condemn another adults behavior doesn't make me incapable of instilling manners and ethics in my child.

posted by BoKnows at 12:40 PM on July 23, 2009

Actually, shouldn't the parents be thinking of the kids when they use profanity in front of them? Or what about when they may suffer from road rage? Or drinking alcohol in front of them? Or smoking?

Of course they should. This only my anecdata, but every friend I know who has had kids has changed their ways. I know I make a conscious effort to be a role model. And that's just not "no cursing or road rage," it's also showing others common courtesy and modeling appropriate behavior for him. (And, no, he's not old enough to read this blog).

Instead of being a parent to their children, parents want to be their friend.

What are you basing this on?

I bet that once Tiger's kids are old enough to understand what he's saying during these outbursts and either call him on it or imitate him, he will stop very quickly.

posted by cjets at 01:00 PM on July 23, 2009

Parents can still teach their kids that they shouldn't do it.

"Do as I say, not as I do" is lousy parenting. The only thing that teaches a kid is that you don't have to live by your own principles.

There are all kinds of things that I can and must do as an adult that my child absolutely cannot do. None of those things are inappropriate when I do them, but would be if my child did them. Most of them involve interactions with adults, but they come up in other areas as well. I have had to answer many times about societal norms for children differing from what is required of adults. Also, to the extent that I make mistakes in front of my child, I have no problem apologizing and telling her why that is not nice and I shouldn't have done it. Certainly, I work at being a good model, but letting her know that all people do make mistakes and have flaws (that they need to work on) is fine by me. Parenting also generally requires that you teach your kids that other people do things wrong all the time, but that it is not your problem or your families problem. Your family has your own standards for behavior. Tiger has a responsibility to his own children to explain his behavior, but he doesn't owe any such explanation to my child. That's my job.

posted by bperk at 01:35 PM on July 23, 2009

I have six kids..

Is that what the TH in THX stand for, Mr. Travis Henry?

posted by BornIcon at 01:45 PM on July 23, 2009

Throwing a tantrum on a golf course when your shot goes bad is not, I presume, one of them.

No, I would never behave that way in front of my own child. I just don't really care if someone else does it. I appreciate the teachable moments Tiger is providing.

posted by bperk at 03:02 PM on July 23, 2009

I think the writer has a point, but if I was the guy in contention against Tiger, I'd be delighted to see it all day long. When he's at his best - win, lose or draw - he doesn't do it, so if he's lobbing clubs and swearing, that means the rest of them have a decent chance of winning that week.

Otherwise, I'm in no position to comment, as the worst fits of temper I've ever witnessed on the golf course have been my own. I'm not as bad as I used to be, but getting better has been more like breaking a habit and less to do with what's at stake these days (i.e., nothing).

For what little it's worth, I think it's usually the guys with the most natural talent that get the most angry. Tom Weiskopf was prodigiously talented and lost his temper all the time. The way he summed it up always rang true to me - and fits the Tiger model - when you know you can hit a perfect shot, anything less can only be frustrating, no matter where it ends up.

I think it's perhaps disingenuous to say that Tiger does it more than anyone else out there - he doesn't, he just gets more coverage - but otherwise, the writer's point is a good one - he ought to grow up a bit. Not because he should be a father to all the world's children, but just because he looks increasingly like an arse.

posted by JJ at 03:10 PM on July 23, 2009

Tiger being the best golfer in the world obviously gives him the right to act however he wants on the course, and to hell with the long-accepted decorum of the game itself, right? So why can't fans decide they want to throw out the "gentleman's game" crap he only follows when it suits how his game is going and hoot, holler, throw shit, scream, whatever, during the entire tournament, like when a basketball player is at the free-throw line and fans can do anything in their power to distract them? He should have to follow the same, accepted practices as the rest of the tour. And to hell with the "role model" stuff. He should do it because it's the right thing to do out of respect for the game, realizing there were great golfers before him (believe it or not).

posted by dyams at 03:53 PM on July 23, 2009

I have six kids. I don't rely on pro athletes or entertainers to be good examples to them. If I have done my job correctly my kids are smart enough to identify poor behavior and actions that they shouldn't emulate. We might need to give kids more credit than to be so easily manipulated by everything they see.

I agree with most of that. But in raising my kids, part of what I need to do is shield them from inappropriate subject matter (and we're talking young children in my case). They can't watch Sopranos or Entourage. They can't watch "R" rated movies, etc. So I can understand why a parent doesn't want his kid to see Tiger screaming "fuck" and throwing a temper tantrum.

Personally, it's really not that big a deal to me but when I see people saying that the only reason parents do this is because they can't parent themselves or that all parents want to be their kid's friends, I have to respond.

posted by cjets at 04:34 PM on July 23, 2009

I still would like to see which children have been negatively influenced by Tiger ... I just want to know if this is as big a deal as folks are making it out to be.

This is a straw man. Or straw child. The first mention of him being a role model was from an adult taking about following Tiger's example in how to conduct himself while golfing. The ones making that aspect of the story a big deal were the "think of the children!" people who ridicule the notion that famous people can ever be treated as role models for children.

posted by rcade at 04:46 PM on July 23, 2009

You made a blanket statement that parents want to be their friend.. I see now that you're quickly backtracking by saying "some" parents want to be their kid's friend.

I wasn't backtracking at all because if you assumed that I said that ALL parents want to befriend their children then that is your error since I never wrote that.

Of course, not every parent is a shitty or perfect parent but to make it seem as if what Tiger does on a golf course when he loses his cool is something your child shouldn't have to witness is ridiculous. Those same parents are probably the same ones that look at Tiger in disgust with his behaviour but then turn around and change the channel to Spongebob Squarepants so that their child is entertained....and out of their hair for at least a half an hour.

posted by BornIcon at 05:07 PM on July 23, 2009

Yes, Tommy "Thunder" Bolt was an angry man on the course, but he's not one of the all time greats.

Quote from Tommys 'World Golf Hall of Fame' page:

Ben Hogan firmly believed had Bolt only been able to mask his emotions better and accept failure, his record would have been even better. "If we could've screwed another head on his shoulders, Tommy Bolt could have been the greatest who ever played," Hogan once said.

I believe that Tiger is smart enough (and image conscius enough) that if he percieves that this lil' habit of expressing himself sourly is seen as some as a bad thing, he will change it. And maybe he will mature enough to realize that another of Hogan's sayings are true:

"Golf is not a game of good shots. It's a game of bad shots."

posted by mjkredliner at 06:50 PM on July 23, 2009

Once again with your inane, incorrect and unsupported generalizations. Thanks so much for your input

Don't get upset that you're that only one that even thought that I said ALL parents and also that you probably saw yourself in that analogy. It is what it is.

You know, at first I felt bad about being a little harsh with my comment above. But then I realized that sooner or later you would be back with another idiotic comment fully justifying my harsh response.

Thanks again for not disappointing me.

posted by cjets at 12:46 AM on July 30, 2009