11/05/24
May 10, 2009
Ah, umm ... I'm sorry!: Manny Ramirez apologizes to Dodgers' owner for his 50-game suspension.
I'm from Jersey, and you can trust me! (God, I sound like a politician!)
posted by jjzucal at 10:06 AM on May 11, 2009
I'm from Jersey too...but I never asked anyone to believe in what I say.
Manny still has not said anything about taking steriods, just that he's apologetic for the situation happening the way it did. If he was to acknowledge taking PED's that would be a whole different situation but IMO, it seems as if he's embarrassed because he's dealing with E.D. which is common for men and he just didn't want to make that public. Then again, I sure as hell could be wrong.
posted by BornIcon at 10:44 AM on May 11, 2009
The truth is out there. Sorry about the jersey thing, I was just coming up with a good apology and you and jerseygirl were bothered by my speculations. I hope it comes out that it was something for E.D. and not something to get testosterone going after a cycle of roids. If so, we can come up with jokes for days about Mannys "bat" or "lack of power" "bat speed" Until then the world may never know.
posted by Debo270 at 10:50 AM on May 11, 2009
I'm still amazed at how Red Sox Partner Mitchell could sniff out any Yankee who even looked at a bottle of pills - but couldn't find anybody in the Red Sox locker room taking roids.
Of course, Manny may have taken hCG so he could get pregnant. Isn't that the main use for it?
posted by pullmyfinger at 11:05 AM on May 11, 2009
I say we build a bridge out of him.
posted by THX-1138 at 11:12 AM on May 11, 2009
...we can come up with jokes for days about Mannys "bat" or "lack of power" "bat speed"...
Which is probably the reason he wanted to keep this private.
posted by BornIcon at 11:47 AM on May 11, 2009
I dunno BI. Have people tell jokes about my "Batting average" or Lose 7 million dollars and be look at as a cheat and a disgrace to the game. I say do viagra commercials with Bob Dole and Rafael Palmeiro.
posted by Debo270 at 12:41 PM on May 11, 2009
I do see your point but in all honesty, if I had a choice of having to tell the public about an embarrassing situation as E.D. is or sit out 50 games, I'll be sitting out those games.
posted by BornIcon at 12:45 PM on May 11, 2009
I dont know. At this point, i think i would have to tell the public the truth. I mean it isnt that big a deal and in my opinion is better the jeopardizing my team, the fans trust, the Hall of Fame, 7 million dollars, Future contracts. DIGNITY IS OVERRATED!!! Thats just my opinion. We can agree to disagree. I hope that(E.D.) is the reason. Always been a Manny fan and dont even care much for baseball. The Pirates have Killed my love for the game.
posted by Debo270 at 12:49 PM on May 11, 2009
It may not be a big deal to you but it may be to others. You're right that jeopardizing the team is something that Manny should have thought about if it was just for E.D. but until further proof comes out to disprove Manny, I'm prone to think that it was an embarassing situation that only got worse for his failure to notify MLB about this.
posted by BornIcon at 01:13 PM on May 11, 2009
What's so embarrassing about Egocentricity Disorder? We've known Manny's had it for years.
posted by mjkredliner at 01:17 PM on May 11, 2009
How long have you been sitting on that joke.
posted by Debo270 at 01:42 PM on May 11, 2009
Must of been years.
posted by BornIcon at 01:44 PM on May 11, 2009
I think it's ridiculous to think with all the money these clowns haul in to play a game with a stick and ball they still can't afford decent healthcare, mainly a doctor who might be able to anticipate a potential banned substance in the drugs they have "prescribed." It's bullshit, but Manny and his agent continue to hold out hope we're all as stupid as he must be.
posted by dyams at 07:51 PM on May 11, 2009
The rules are there for a reason. Regardless if he took this stuff because he couldn't arise for the occasion, or if he thought he needed the boost, he's broken the rules. Bloody hell, is it really that hard to envision his suspension?
posted by CountSpatula at 09:25 PM on May 11, 2009
I, too, am calling "bullshit" on his attempt to pass this off as an innocent attempt to treat E.D.. There is just too much information out there for him , and his doctor, to claim any sort of ignorance.
The drug he took is known to mask other steroids, and until he proves otherwise that is what I will believe is going on here.
As I said in prior thread, if his E.D. story held any water, he would have at least tried to convey that to the league. He was too quick to take the 50 game suspension.
maybe they could test his story by recreating this...if he gets wood he's out!
posted by dviking at 12:03 AM on May 12, 2009
The drug he took is known to mask other steroids, and until he proves otherwise that is what I will believe is going on here.
That drug "is known to mask other steroids" but that's not the only thing it's used for. It's also used for erectile dysfunction which, many people may have a hard time believing but it is still possible. I don't mean to come across as an apologist for these guys, I truly don't. I just want to give them the benefit of the doubt we would all want if we were ever in that situation. I will not follow the crowd and yell at the top of my lungs that Manny is guilty of using PED's until all of the information is out there.
I can remember when the Duke lacrosse story was being spoken of and these innocent players were guilty in the public's mind before all of the facts came out and I just refuse to do that. I apologize for comparing a rape allegation to steriods but the point is, the public & media had already made up their minds whether someone was guilty or not before all of the cards were laid out on the table and that includes the very person who wrote a book about Alex Rodriguez, demanded an apology from A-Rod but never even apologized to the Duke lacrosse team when they were found innocent and that's Selena Roberts. Isn't she supposed to be a respected member of the media and someone that's supposed to have all of the facts before she can write up a story?
I'm just saying, anything is possible.
posted by BornIcon at 09:03 AM on May 12, 2009
For all of you folks stating that he took hCG for erectile disfunction - think again. Just google "human chorionic gonadotropin" and read as much about hCG as you wish. It has nothing to do with E.D. There are only two uses for it. It is used for female fertility as it's main use and a secondary use is to help restart normal testosterone production when ending steroid use.
If Manny can't get it up, this won't help. That's what Viagra is for.
posted by pullmyfinger at 09:53 AM on May 12, 2009
BI, I'm not buying the analogy between the Duke case and Manny. First, I never bought into the Duke allegations to begin with. Second, in that case you had multiple defendants saying that the crime didn't happen, a very suspect "victim", and a DA trying to make a name for himself.
Here you have a suspect player (even if he's suspect only because of all the other athletes busted for steroids that have tried the "it must have been something my doctor gave me excuse), and no over-zealous DA trying to make a name for himself. In this case the defendant is not saying that he is innocent, he is only trying to justify his guilt.
I just don't believe that someone with his resources couldn't find a way to deal with E.D. that was within the rules. He just happened to use a method that also works to mask steroids? Keeping in mind that from what I read, HCG isn't so much a E.D. treatment, it's more of a potency treatment. He's in his late 30's with multiple children, is he really trying to have more children? Maybe two sons named Manny aren't enough.
I may end up with my foot in my mouth, however, I'm not too worried about having to face that outcome.
posted by dviking at 09:57 AM on May 12, 2009
I wasn't selling, I was just saying that we should wait until all of the facts are brought into the forefront before we assume he's guilty. One too many times, these atheletes were found guilty in the court of public opinion before all of the facts were known.
Maybe this was just an embarrassing thing for Manny to bring up knowing that his situation would be made public or maybe he did in fact use PED's and was using hCG as a masking agent. I don't know and neither do you, we're just speculating, I'm just putting my opinion on hold on this subject until further information is found.
I may end up with my foot in my mouth...
It wouldn't be the first or last time that has happened to me, I feel your pain.
posted by BornIcon at 10:21 AM on May 12, 2009
BI, in four of your comments above you refer to hCG use for erectile disfunction. What is it that you know about ED that I can't seem to find in any of the medical sites I've looked at. I have yet to find an actual medical reference site that links hCG to erectile disfunction. Either Manny is trying to normalize his testosterone levels from ending steroid use, or he is trying to get pregnant. Which of the two do you think he is trying to do?
posted by pullmyfinger at 11:51 AM on May 12, 2009
I thought the best comments I heard on this whole Manny & hCG affair was on the B101 morning show last Thursday. One DJ said he maybe he was just trying to become Octo-Manny... while the other countered with: "No, I think it's just Manny being Tranny"...
posted by MAYANKEE at 11:52 AM on May 12, 2009
BI, in four of your comments above you refer to hCG use for erectile disfunction. What is it that you know about ED that I can't seem to find in any of the medical sites I've looked at
I'm only quoting what's been said about why men have used hCG. It's been reported that "hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as normal testosterone production."
Here's another quote, "[I]t would be unusual for a physician to prescribe HCG to treat erectile dysfunction, according to William McCloskey, a professor of pharmacy practice at the Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences. In the days before Viagra, Cialis, and similar drugs reached the market, HCG was used to treat erectile dysfunction, but its use has greatly diminished because of the new products, McCloskey said."
So it is possible that he was prescribed hCG for erectile dysfunction but because of similar but more popular products like Viagra and/or Cialis being the leaders in the market for E.D., Manny is being doubted for saying that his doctor prescribed him the drug that was found in his system for a "personal problem".
If I was Manny, I would not only sue the doctor that prescribed me a banned substance but I would also go to Bud Selig and tell him exactly what my "personal problem" was in order for him to understand my situation, that's if he's truly innocent.
posted by BornIcon at 12:19 PM on May 12, 2009
Manny could very well have E.D., and it could very well be caused by steroid use. He's being doubted because he was taking something that is banned by the MLB. Viagra and Cialis are not, so if he had ED not caused by steroid use, why wouldn't he use the non-banned drugs?
posted by BoKnows at 12:39 PM on May 12, 2009
So apparently he tested positive for a synthetic steroid and they found the hCG prescription after going through medical records.
posted by goddam at 12:42 PM on May 12, 2009
...so if he had ED not caused by steroid use, why wouldn't he use the non-banned drugs?
That would be a question that Manny or MLB needs to asked the doctor that Manny said prescribed him the banned substance.
posted by BornIcon at 12:56 PM on May 12, 2009
Doesn't matter. The ESPN story pretty much clears everything up.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:03 PM on May 12, 2009
That would be a question that Manny or MLB needs to asked the doctor that Manny said prescribed him the banned substance.
If I was Manny, I would not only sue the doctor that prescribed me a banned substance...
Right. We should also suspend the doctor for 50 games. Unless Manny's doctor works for the team, I see no basis for putting the blame on the physician.
...but I would also go to Bud Selig and tell him exactly what my "personal problem" was in order for him to understand my situation, that's if he's truly innocent.
And all Bud Selig has to say to that would be A) the drug prescribed is banned, and B) there are other drugs available to help the personal problem, that are not banned.
I think goddam's article gives a little more idea of why he's being doubted. For one, after being alerted to the high testosterone levels, Manny was going to appeal and/or fight the accusation. Then after his other medical records were released, which included the prescription of HcG, he chose to back off. To me that says he knows he is caught, and judging by the reaction that Bonds, McGwire, Clemens and Arod have gotten, maybe it's better to take the 50 games instead of allowing the media to drag his name through the deepest, dirtiest mud they can find.
posted by BoKnows at 01:10 PM on May 12, 2009
Thanks for the info, jerseygirl. I hadn't come across that item. Now we know that Manny had SYNTHETIC TESTOSTERONE as well as hCG. The hCG is "best known among male steroid users as a substance that can help kick-start the body's production of natural testosterone, which is stymied when using synthetic testosterone (aka steroids)."
Manny dropped his appeal of the suspension when this report came to light. None of the above theories (ie: ED, impotence, low sperm count etc) had anything to do with the facts.
posted by pullmyfinger at 01:45 PM on May 12, 2009
But was Manny suspended for Synthetic Testosterone or was he suspended because hCG was found in his system?
posted by BornIcon at 09:07 AM on May 13, 2009
Manny was suspended for using a banned substance. Why some players still feel they can get away with it, I have no idea.
posted by BoKnows at 11:10 AM on May 13, 2009
I know it may sound like semantics but it wasn't steriods that Manny was suspended 50 games for is what I'm saying, it was for having something in his system that is on MLB's banned list.
posted by BornIcon at 12:14 PM on May 13, 2009
I know it may sound like semantics but it wasn't steriods that Manny was suspended 50 games for is what I'm saying, it was for having something in his system that is on MLB's banned list.
What's your point? Banned is banned. What difference does it make as long as it is on the list?
posted by bender at 01:43 PM on May 13, 2009
The point is, it wasn't steroids that he was suspended for.
posted by BornIcon at 01:51 PM on May 13, 2009
The point is, it wasn't steroids that he was suspended for.
That's not much of a point. What they found in his system was a synthetic steroid. They discovered the item on the banned list (hCG) after he was found to have elevated testosterone levels. So, yeah, technically he's banned because of the hCG evidence, but they would have never found out about it unless he first tested positive for a synthetic steroid. And they probably could have nailed him just on the testing alone. The hCG just solidified their case.
posted by goddam at 05:18 PM on May 13, 2009
HCG was placed on the banned substances list last year not because it's a steroid, but because it's used as a masking agent for steroids. Finding this substance in Ramirez's system is MLB's stated reason for his suspension. If Ramirez should do any court depositions BornIcon's semantics point will be made a great deal of.
posted by Newbie Walker at 03:45 AM on May 14, 2009
Hey, I'm only saying that things aren't always what they seem, no matter what you may read or hear. I'm not going automatically say that Manny is a juicer just because hCG was found in his system. He gave out a statement saying why it was in system and people can either believe what he said or not.
When someone is in Manny's situation, everyone wants him to proclaim his innocence which is what he's doing by saying what he said. Take Roger Clemen's for example: People have already made up their minds about the guy even though he's basically telling anyone that will listen to him that he never took steriods no matter what Brian McNamee says. Isn't that what we would do if we were innocent?
posted by BornIcon at 09:24 AM on May 14, 2009
The key word is "if," there. I don't want Roger Clemens or Manny Ramirez to proclaim their innocence unless they're actually innocent.
As for Clemens, the benefit of the doubt is not an infinite resource. His story's not very credible, he has McNamee as well as his own former teammate Andy Pettitte backing the steroids claim, his career trajectory is highly suggestive of steroids, and he's shown in many different ways he has low character. "Things aren't always what they seem," sure. And when O.J. gets out of jail he'll find the real killers.
posted by rcade at 09:34 AM on May 14, 2009
If you guys want to believe that Manny has E.D., and just by coincidence, his doctor prescribed him a drug that not only is on the MLB's banned list, but it also a drug most commonly associated with helping raise the testosterone levels after a steroid cycle in a sport riddled with substance abuse, then fine, believe that. I think it's crazy talk.
posted by BoKnows at 09:36 AM on May 14, 2009
It's possible both explanations are true. If Manny abused steroids and they stopped him from producing testosterone, he could have bedroom problems that required the doctor's prescription. Jose Canseco has that problem.
They ought to do a public ad campaign about how 'roids can shrink your mantackle and make it impossible to hit with power. That would probably make an impression on many of the young athletes deciding whether it's worth it.
posted by rcade at 09:44 AM on May 14, 2009
They ought to do a public ad campaign about how 'roids can shrink your mantackle and make it impossible to hit with power.
Making it impossible to hit for power....in the bedroom?
posted by BornIcon at 10:53 AM on May 14, 2009
On that note, I would like to take this opportunity to say I am sorry too.(Just like Manny) I said some really mean things last week like "I believe Manny" and "He really convinced me in an interview I saw that he was so against roids." He would never be caught could he?? BI and jersey girl tried to tell me my speculations were crazy talk, but I wanted to hope that baseball had changed. Plus who can trust people from jersey. I see now that I can never trust anyone. I don't know what is right anymore. I had a very painful procedure over the weekend to remove my foot from my mouth, but still can't get the taste out.