04/25/24
January 02, 2008
Taxpayers will fund Yankees' VIP parking: Yet another perk, compliments of the richest team in sports and the taxpayers of New York.
There ain't enough KY jelly in all the drugs store in New York City to relieve the thrust of this one!!! there has gotta be some legal way to estop "earmarks", aka political grab bags.. Terrible!!!
posted by Fly_Piscator at 11:56 AM on January 02, 2008
I normally don't jump on the "unfair tax" bandwagon. However, try as I may, I simply cannot think of any justifiable reason the average New Yorker (who may not have the slightest interest in baseball, or, may be a Mets fan) should have to shell out coin so that ARod can park his Rolls Royce in privacy. Seems like something the club should pay for.
posted by Bill Lumbergh at 12:09 PM on January 02, 2008
One thing that nags me about sports nowadays is the reliance organizations have on attracting the rich and catering to their every whim. It used to be a big, sellout crowd comprised of rabid fans would be all teams wanted, but now you have to have luxury seats, corporate boxes, free perks and parking for the "elite," etc. The fact details such as those included in this agreement are run through, hoping the public never finds out, is outrageous. And it's shoved through for the next 40 years! What a joke. It would be nice if for one season we could experience a scenario where every "average" fan stays away from the ballparks, and only the VIPs show up. I'd like to see how major league baseball would react to that situation.
posted by dyams at 12:21 PM on January 02, 2008
They'd just buy more skyboxes. Using public funds.
posted by Hugh Janus at 01:36 PM on January 02, 2008
They'd just buy more skyboxes. My point is these VIP-types aren't typically your true fans who support the team and sport in so many other ways, most notably in purchasing licensed merchandise that makes professional leagues so much money, purchasing concessions, paying for parking at the stadiums, etc. The games themselves would be pretty dull with all the spectators sitting behind the windows of their luxury boxes. It would sound like during the action of a tennis match. But since a boycott by the average fan will never happen, things will continue as they are now, where costs rise astronomically, contracts get more and more out of hand, and the rich are handed more freebies while the fate of the team itself is still attached to the ticket-buying public.
posted by dyams at 02:05 PM on January 02, 2008
I've been partners on Yankee tickets with a couple of guys for years now. 4 tickets 16 rows behind the dugout. They've just increased the price of tickets 100% for next year. 4 seats just for the regular season, $83,000! George Stienbrenner and the rest of the Yankee organization can kiss my ass!, which I'm sure is exactly what they want to hear. The Yankees(as well as every other pro sports team) aren't interested in real fans, they want corporate assholes filling the stadium. Guys who wander in in the 3rd inning, and leave at the bottom of the 7th. The parking situation is just another example of how little respect professional sports franchises have for the average Joe. It's time congress forget about the steriod witch hunt and zero in on who they are really suppose to be protecting, real people who continue to be hurt by this kind of bullshit.
posted by MGDADDYO at 02:15 PM on January 02, 2008
My point is these VIP-types aren't typically your true fans who support the team and sport in so many other ways, most notably in purchasing licensed merchandise that makes professional leagues so much money, purchasing concessions, paying for parking at the stadiums, etc. The games themselves would be pretty dull with all the spectators sitting behind the windows of their luxury boxes. This is the great thing (well, great if you're an owner) about the Yankees and other lucky teams. Like my Maple Leafs. If every last hardcore Leaf fan boycotted the team they'd still sell out. Because hardcore Leaf fans don't go to games. They can't get tickets (note: Not necessarily because they can't afford them - but literally, access is difficult). Most of the seats are owned by corporations and are expensed. The merch is ancilliary - the gate is where the money is. (at least for hockey - I think if the same thing happened to the Yankees, it might be a little different.) But this kind of thing shouldn't surprise anyone. The continued wealth gap encourages this kind of two-tier structure to, well, everything. I can't wait for the velvet curtain to come down around half the stadium so the elite won't have to smell my poverty or see my cheap-ass $20 haircut.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:17 PM on January 02, 2008
$20,750 for a season ticket?!?! Okay, those seem to be in one of the better locations but $250 a game good? I don't think so.
posted by billsaysthis at 02:51 PM on January 02, 2008
If every last hardcore Leaf fan boycotted the team they'd still sell out. That's too bad, but I guess it would be possible in a city like Toronto when the Air Canada Centre seating capacity is under 19,000. The team could probably fill it with individuals who aren't really hard-core fans, but just have the money necessary to own the seats. Yankee Stadium, though, at a capacity of 53,000 (yeah, I know they're moving in a year) and 81 home dates would have troubles without the average fan. It appears, however, the new stadium will come closer and closer to pricing the seats out of financial reach of most. It can't go on forever, though, and even though I may not live to see it, my prediction is many professional sports will eventually kill themselves. Baseball has relied for a long time on a generation of fans that is dying off to pass the love of the game (for how it used to be) on to younger fans. If the number of young people in the U.S. choosing not to play (or develop an interest in) baseball continues, it's popularity may dwindle a great deal in the coming decades. But, by that time, King George will be dead and gone.
posted by dyams at 03:39 PM on January 02, 2008
dyams, while I see the same bleak future you do as these financial shenanigans go on, I can't help but wonder if a massive fan boycott would actually make somebody in power think for a second before the next screw job. Granted, fans of all professional sports have shown the same mentality of victims of spousal abuse, or people who live with serial fornicators; we just keep coming back, no matter what stupid, hurtful thing they do. But if, for once, the vox populi actually got loud enough to be heard, do you think anybody in power has the common sense to hear it? Not just baseball, either. All the major professional sporting organiztions need to be told to take a flying leap. If there were some sort of organizational clearing house to organize and inform fans, do you think it could be done? Think of the power of millions of people refusing to watch or attend sporting events for one week. Think of that clout, even if you could only muster it up once; the ability to really tell somebody in the money, I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore! Or, would we all, completely short-sightedly, refuse to miss a single game now to help our collective fortunes later?
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:00 PM on January 02, 2008
y'know, as a non yankee fan, i look at the 26 commissioners trophys they've won, and say must be nice. then i pay $6 to park within easy walking distance of busch stadium, and pay a high but not astronomical price for seats within spitting distance of albert pujols, while sitting with thousands of my closest friends almost any of whom would happily jump my car if the battery was dead after the game, many of whom have baught me a beer, or drank one paid for by me. i watch a game played by beloved athleats most of whom appreciate the love that this midwestern city showers on them. i talk baseball with people who really know the game and will even give credit to the opposing team for a good play. i sit in a staidum electrified by a collective love of baseball, and specificaly our cardinals. i do all this without breaking my modest soldier/student's budget, and i think to myself about the cost/profeit ratio: all this and my team has only 16 fewer titles than your yankees. God i love being a cardinals fan.
posted by elijahin at 04:19 PM on January 02, 2008
Yankee Stadium, though, at a capacity of 53,000 (yeah, I know they're moving in a year) and 81 home dates would have troubles without the average fan. It appears, however, the new stadium will come closer and closer to pricing the seats out of financial reach of most. while i completely understand your gripes, dyams, do you assume that there aren't "real fans" that are well-off too? only people that don't make much money can be hard-core fans? i'm not well-off by any mean, but i do find a way to pay for my tickets. i basically spend my summer at the Stadium so it's not like i'm spending my money on too many other things. the guy that sits behind me has money and i think he'd have an issue with being called a fake fan. now, i don't like that other die hards get priced out of tickets. but i never expected prices to stay where they were. especially not with demand for season tickets being so high. however, the Yankees do continue to have their discounted games and family packs. (plus if you're nice to a particular SpoFite she just might be able to get you a cheap bleacher seat)
posted by goddam at 04:36 PM on January 02, 2008
elijahin, i have happily jump started the car of a complete stranger after a game. i've parked for free on the street within blocks of the Stadium. i've had fellow fans buy me beer. i talk baseball with other fans every game. i get to see some of hardest working players in the game every day. i've clapped along with 50,000 fellow yankee fans when an opposing player makes an amazing play. and soldiers can get free or discounted tickets 4 days a week at the Stadium. so take your self-righteous bullshit somewhere else.
posted by goddam at 04:39 PM on January 02, 2008
Remind me to call you before I ever invade La Stadia.
posted by yerfatma at 04:46 PM on January 02, 2008
God i love being a cardinals fan. posted by elijahin at 4:19 PM CST on January 2 I echo these sentiments. Hardly any discource at the ballpark, fans that appreciate the game without the rah, rah Cardinal attitude at the expense of others on the opposing teams and fair prices. When Boston won the World Series, you would not believe the number of handshakes forthcoming from Cardinals fans to the Boston faithful. All this, with reasonable prices (relatively) and a family atmosphere. Baseball in St. Louis is hard to beat.
posted by Nakeman at 04:52 PM on January 02, 2008
goddam i married into a yankee family. i know that there are good people who love the yanks. the thing is that with you guys it seems like the things i described are an anomale in the bronx, wheras its simply the way it is in stl. yeah we have ass-holes too, but here, they are the anomale. (along with me spelling that word right) yankee stadium is an amazing experience that every baseball fan should see at least once. busch, though, is one that people want to keep having. ive sat next to people wearing mets jerseys, padres t-shirts, braves, phillies, even cubs fans. almost all of whom have said that its amazing to them that they can walk in to this park wearing the opposing teams colors and not be harassed. they might get teased a little, but always in a good-natured tone. a padres fan said we made him and his son feel like welcomed guests, rather than an agent of the enemy. ive worn red in 8 different opposing stadiums mostly in the eastern part of the country, and i have never felt like a welcomed guest. certainly not in the bronx. and i dont mean it as a slight against the yanks, its just a difference in culture, i think. for me, personally, this is the way to go. the whole experience, and the relatively small price tag, combined with the ten rings, makes the st.louis experience the one for me.
posted by elijahin at 05:15 PM on January 02, 2008
do you assume that there aren't "real fans" that are well-off too? No, not at all. I realize how I was making my point turned into too much of a generalization. There's definitely individuals who are well-off financially who are big (in this case) Yankee fans. My only issue is when teams seem to want to only aim for big-money targets simply because they have money, whether they be individuals, corporations, whatever.
posted by dyams at 05:39 PM on January 02, 2008
that seems to be a problem for a lot of the people on sportsfilter. c'mon people if a statement is made about a particular group of people that includes you or someone you know, but the statement doesnt apply to that person, dont take it personally. generalizations are general thats why we call them generalizations. if they were specific we'd call them specifications. of course there are exceptions to every rule. we all know that. but realize that if a generalized statement doesnt apply to you, you might be that exception.
posted by elijahin at 05:49 PM on January 02, 2008
Or, you could stop making generalizations, espcially the ones that paint every fan of every other team in the league as not quite as cool as you Cards fans. That would work, too.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:54 PM on January 02, 2008
black hand, are you gonna tell me you dont ever make generalizations that favor your point of view? seriously? if so, you are either a very non-persuasive person, or you are kidding yourself. we all have our own point of view which we share on web sites like this one. if you dont want to read my opinion you simply look at the block that says elijahin in blue letters at the bottom and skip that block. if you dont skip it i assume my opinions are interesting to you. and if you really disagree, make your case. prove me wrong. otherwise, stop whining.
posted by elijahin at 06:04 PM on January 02, 2008
My only issue is when teams seem to want to only aim for big-money targets simply because they have money, whether they be individuals, corporations, whatever. ok. i definitely understand that. as far as what they do with tickets in the new Stadium, personally i'm going to have to take a wait and see approach. i know they're already cutting the number of bleacher and upper deck seats. but whether they will make the additional seats in the lower level somewhat affordable remains to be seen. now this parking fiasco is a whole other issue aside from the tickets. i figure i'll have to sell a bunch of my tickets on StubHub to help defray the parking cost. elijahin, as far as me having a personal issue with what dyams said, i didn't. i asked him to clarify what he wrote. and he did. yeah, we all like to throw generalizations around sometimes, but don't surprised if you get called out on it, especially on SpoFi. it's not about taking something personally, it's about not accepting throwaway statements or just simply asking for clarification. now, as for your post, i'm still not sure what your point is and what it has to do with the FPP. so different fans from different cities like their stadium for different reasons. great. so you like the cardinals and can afford to go to games because the tickets are cheap. well, they should be because the cost of living in St. Louis is about 50% lower than NYC.
posted by goddam at 06:07 PM on January 02, 2008
i guess my thing is people dont seem to be able to tell me why they love their teams. i just gave you a few of the reasons why i love mine, and most cards fans could. but it seems like alot of people just love their team because they do. if your wife asked you why you love her and you say "because my dad loved you and took me to see you when i was 7 and i had a great time", your marriage would be near the end. its not just with baseball. im a 49ers fan, and God knows they havent given me a reason to love them in a long time. love of sports is very much a one sided affair. my favorite sport will always be football, but my favorite sports team will always be the cards, because of all the teams i root for, my love of the cards, is the only one from which i feel like i get something back, and i wish that feeling for all of my fellow sports fans. sadly i doubt most of thme ever really get that feeling. if i seem like im saying im cooler than them, thats not really my intent (i only gloat after a big win) what im really saying is that, as a fan, im luckier than most. come to think of it, as a husband too(my wife might read this)
posted by elijahin at 06:23 PM on January 02, 2008
"The Yankees(as well as every other pro sports team) aren't interested in real fans, they want corporate assholes filling the stadium. Guys who wander in in the 3rd inning, and leave at the bottom of the 7th." I have a recurring fantasy about a Super Bowl game being played in frigid weather outdoors, the way that old NFL title games were played before the advent of the Super Bowl. Only two Super Bowls have been played in a northern climates and both were indoors. It would be interesting how many Hollywood celebs and wannabe celebs show up for the game if light poles are swaying in a frigid wind as it blows through the stadium.
posted by Cave_Man at 07:00 PM on January 02, 2008
we all have our own point of view which we share on web sites like this one. But you just got done telling us we can't share our opinion if our opinion is that we're upset by something you said. Thus TBH's suggestion you put away the broad brush for a while, since this site revolves entirely around opinions on sports teams, informed mainly by loyalty.
posted by yerfatma at 07:04 PM on January 02, 2008
I agree Cave Man. It would be fun to watch a Super Bowl played in Green Bay.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 07:13 PM on January 02, 2008
"Baseball has relied for a long time on a generation of fans that is dying off to pass the love of the game (for how it used to be) on to younger fans. If the number of young people in the U.S. choosing not to play (or develop an interest in) baseball continues, it's popularity may dwindle a great deal in the coming decades. But, by that time, King George will be dead and gone. posted by dyams at 3:39 PM CST on January 2" It is entirely that soccer (football the rest of the world) will become the dominant professional sport in the USA within the next 40 years. The reasons are games are cheap to attend and the sport has a huge base of young people that are playing it (more than baseball and closing in on Pop Warner football).
posted by Cave_Man at 07:17 PM on January 02, 2008
(plus if you're nice to a particular SpoFite she just might be able to get you a cheap bleacher seat) When and if I ever get to NY, goddam, will you take me out to the ball game? I've never been to one (unless you count the Z-grade amateurs in Darwin, Australia). However, all I can offer in return is good seats at a Sydney Swans or Sydney FC game.
posted by owlhouse at 07:25 PM on January 02, 2008
For me, this brings up the issue of where my tax dollars are going. I am not a New Yorker so this doesn't affect me personally, but I do feel for the hard-working, penny-pinching, family of 5 that is going to be paying for this perk. Knowingly or not. I laugh at the timing. Don't ya just love how they can squeeze this by, right around Christmas time.
posted by BoKnows at 07:46 PM on January 02, 2008
i know they're already cutting the number of bleacher and upper deck seats. but whether they will make the additional seats in the lower level somewhat affordable remains to be seen. Similiar thing happened in St. Louis. The old Busch had 60% of seats in the upper deck. The new Busch has 60% of seats in the lower bowl.
posted by BoKnows at 07:48 PM on January 02, 2008
It is entirely that soccer (football the rest of the world) will become the dominant professional sport in the USA within the next 40 years I disagree with soccer becoming the prominate sport in the U.S. Soccer in my opinion is and always will be at the lower attendence scale in the U.S.-St. Louis is very popular as a soccer city, however most people here recognize the sport as particiation sport, other than a spectator sport. Besides, if soccer does become popular, the same problems with tickets prices and parking will arise in the future. And further, soccer is the most boring sport of any of the major contests. Just my opinion.
posted by Nakeman at 08:06 PM on January 02, 2008
When and if I ever get to NY, goddam, will you take me out to the ball game? of course.
posted by goddam at 08:26 PM on January 02, 2008
"soccer city, however most people here recognize the sport as particiation sport, other than a spectator sport. Besides, if soccer does become popular, the same problems with tickets prices and parking will arise in the future. And further, soccer is the most boring sport of any of the major contests. Just my opinion. posted by Nakeman at 8:06 PM CST on January 2" I agree that ticket prices for soccer games will increase in price as the sport become more popular. I do not agree that soccer will not become popular.
posted by Cave_Man at 09:14 PM on January 02, 2008
I do not agree that soccer will not become popular. posted by Cave_Man at 9:14 PM CST on January 2 Only way soccer will become popular, if the U.S. has a flood of immigrants from countries that go nuts for the sport. Other than that, I don't see it. Soccer has been played for decades in this country, and other than amateur play never caught on as a professional sport. Of course if the popularity stays as it is now- yes, the prices will stay reasonable and parking will not be at a premium-no one will go to the games.
posted by Nakeman at 09:37 PM on January 02, 2008
Only way soccer will become popular, if the U.S. has a flood of immigrants from countries that go nuts for the sport. Have you been in a coma for the past decade?
posted by hawkguy at 10:26 PM on January 02, 2008
hawk the part that got left out of that scenerio is the part where all americans are forced to leave.
posted by elijahin at 10:28 PM on January 02, 2008
hawkguy, elijahin-Look, immigrants have been coming to this country ever since, since-my mother came off the boat at Ellis Island from Poland. And thus it's made no difference in the popularity of the sport. The influx will have to be huge before any strides are going to be made for soccer to take a prominate place in todays major sports. If I been in a coma, and not noticed the influx of immigrants, why is it the popularity of soccer not increased in the past decade? And elijahin I suggest you be the first to leave with your wise ass remarks.
posted by Nakeman at 10:59 PM on January 02, 2008
nakeman you are totaly misreading me. i was being a smart-ass about soccer, not about immigration. i think the new anti-imigration laws that are being pushed (and in some cases passed) are an abomination to what our country was founded upon. the sign says bring us your tired your week your huddled masses yerning to be free, but it seems they are trying to change it to "no vacancy" it is wrong, and anyone who knows me knows i feel this way. im only a couple generations removed from a boat myself. my point in that previous remark was that the only way soccer would ever be the main sport here is if all citizens were forced to leave, because thats the only way that (american) football baseball, and basketball will ever be overtaken by soccer. i hope ive clarified my point of view adaquately nakeman.
posted by elijahin at 11:29 PM on January 02, 2008
btw. in regards to the smart-assed remarks, thats one of the great perks of being an american. my right to be a smart-ass is protected by the constitution. just like your right to be a knee-jerk reactionary.
posted by elijahin at 11:30 PM on January 02, 2008
ok one more for nakeman i shouldnt have posted that last one. i was pissed about the insinuation that i was anit-everyone but americans, and about the suggestion that i leave my country. i guess im a bit of a knee-jerk reactionary too. friends?
posted by elijahin at 11:36 PM on January 02, 2008
I have a recurring fantasy about a Super Bowl game being played in frigid weather outdoors, the way that old NFL title games were played before the advent of the Super Bowl. I'll second this suggestion, been waiting for it myself for a long time. Lets get back to the FPP topic and not The Superbowl of Soccer in St. Louis circle J%$k it has become. This new "Parking Tax" that New York, that is even lower than the "Sin Tax" they used here in Ohio to build Jacobs Field* and the new Browns stadium*. Thats where they add even more tax to alcohol and tobacco. Except from the looks of the article they were a lot more discreet about what was actually going on. This part of the article really stuck out in my mind. That is double the number of free parking spaces Bloomberg announced for the team back in 2005. In addition, the garage operator must offer the team up to 900 additional parking spaces annually at an unspecified discount rate. I have visited NYC two times, unfortunately I have not made it to Yankee stadium. However, where the hell are they going to find an additional 900 spaces/year? The kicker was the team spokeswomans comment, "The Yankee's have no involvment with the garages." Like anyone would expect to hear any different. I did find one positive thing in this cluster F*(% though, they are graciously alowing 120 parking spaces free on game day for the police working the game, how thoughtful. Plus, on a off day that number goes up to 130 out of the 660 spaces available. Could the new nickname at NYPD be Generous George, after taxes, I doubt it. * Both are open air stadiums, built with a cigarette/alcohol tax but don't you even dream of smoking outside of the seating bowl by the edges of the stadiums. Hypocrisy at its finest!
posted by jojomfd1 at 04:13 AM on January 03, 2008
What she might have written: "LISTEN UP, PEONS!! From where I sit, I think all the little people ought to focus on earning a living and supporting their families and not wasting their money on ball games. After all, if I can leave $12 million to my dog, I am sure that George wants to fill this stadium with MY kind of people... not the working slobs! Let them eat cake!!" Leona H. ************* Well this peon knows there was a dot.com bubble that went bust, and a housing speculation bubble that went bust and am looking forward to the baseball bubble bursting.
posted by Fly_Piscator at 07:47 AM on January 03, 2008
Where did dead Leona Helmsley come from? And why would you think the market for baseball tickets is anything like Internet stocks or houses?
posted by yerfatma at 08:01 AM on January 03, 2008
Schadenfreude is an emotion, why does it have to be logical? You will have to figure out the Leona H//Marie Antoinette connection for yourself.
posted by Fly_Piscator at 08:40 AM on January 03, 2008
Assuming you give a rat's ass, of course.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:48 AM on January 03, 2008
I get the feeling step two after making the connection is checking yourself into a facility for guys who think they're Napoleon.
posted by yerfatma at 08:49 AM on January 03, 2008
What's with the old-timers around here being so mean or abrasive or volatile to any new posters? I've been seeing it on several threads a lot around here, and it's tiresome. Just let people get their posting feet wet, and learn how to be a Spofite by example, and don't sweat the small stuff.
posted by hincandenza at 02:54 PM on January 03, 2008
I AM Napoleon!!!! LOL, all in jest.
posted by Fly_Piscator at 03:08 PM on January 03, 2008
Also from the story: Since Garage B is slated to be the only parking facility physically attached to the stadium, Yankees players will enjoy an added bonus. They will no longer have to face adoring young fans waiting in the parking lot after the game in hopes of landing an autograph from their favorite hero. Nice.