04/24/24
July 11, 2007
In 2005, OU went 0-4?: The University of Oklahoma has been forced to vacate its eights win during the 2005 season. The NCAA handed down extra penalties to OU in relation to the dismissal of starting quarterback Rhett Bomar and two other players after it was found they were paid by a Norman car dealership for work they didn't do. Head coach Bob Stoops, who led the Sooners to an 8-4 record and a win in the Holiday Bowl in 2005, will see his career coaching mark drop from 86-19 to 78-19.
It is so lame to vacate wins in the past. For all practical purposes, it was still an 8-4 season and the NCAA can't force every other stat counter on earth from erasing that information. Punish them with something that actually hurts them like taking scholarships or not letting them get a Bowl game. They get to keep all the Bowl money, so it sounds like symbolic punishment rather than real punishment.
posted by bperk at 04:44 PM on July 11, 2007
They did take some scholarships as well.
posted by yerfatma at 06:57 PM on July 11, 2007
This system never made much sense to me. Too many kids who were already in the system when all of this blew up are going to get screwed even though they personally kept their noses clean, and the younger players weren't even there when it went down. Sure, they could leave school and hope that they can find a slot at another major college (and most likely have to sit out a year), but how's that fair? It's either that, or stick with Oklahoma and live with playing for a team that's undermanned because they're shorted on scholarships. I say that the punishment should be more focused. If what the guilty players did was bad enough to warrant these actions, then blast them harder. Make them sit out two or three seasons instead of one. If the coaches turned a blind eye and should have been more vigilant, fine their asses. Same with the compliance staff. Hell, fine the university in general. If you want to take away scholarships, delay it until the current crop of players have all had their chance to make it through the system. That means waiting until the 2012-13 season, but it also means that the NCAA could impose a much stiffer penalty. They could cancel ALL football scholarships for a season or two. As long as the decision was announced now, nobody would be able to complain that they didn't know what they were getting into once the sanctions kicked in because it would be public knowledge long before any new players or coaches signed on the dotted line. That approach would take a little longer, but it would put one hell of a dent in OU football without harming any of the kids who'd already made a commitment to the program before all hell broke loose (or who were convinced that the steps the university took on its own would be deemed sufficient). Seems to me that it would be a lot more fair, and you can bet it would get the attention of the people in charge if coaches started to see six figure fines and schools saw fines that wiped out all those bowl revenues, and a season or two with zero scholarships would make them all squeal. In the end, it would get the job done better and avoid penalizing innocent kids.
posted by ctal1999 at 07:46 PM on July 11, 2007
So does every team that lost to Oklahoma now have a loss erased from their record? Also, is Oregon now the official 2005 Holiday Bowl champion?
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 07:54 PM on July 11, 2007
Go Ducks!!!!
posted by everett at 08:53 PM on July 11, 2007
They did take some scholarships as well Taking away two scholarships doesn't amount to squat in college football.
posted by urall cloolis at 09:33 PM on July 11, 2007
Oklahoma is allowed to give out the equivalent of 85 full scholarships (the NCAA D1 limit in football). Taking away two will make no impact at all in recruiting or the current class.
posted by urall cloolis at 09:42 PM on July 11, 2007
Those sanctions are in addition to those already self-imposed by Oklahoma, which has banned athletes from working at the car dealership until at least the 2008-09 academic year (from another AP story) Ooooooooh...that is a scary punishment- no more non-attendance jobs for another year. What will the recruits and current players do to make a living? Maybe since all this broke they will add another year to the dealership ban. That will teach them.
posted by urall cloolis at 11:59 PM on July 11, 2007
What is all the crying about? Try this--if the players had not violated a rule that they were aware of--and the coaching staff had not let them--there would be no penalties. Other schools have gone through the same--look at Ohio State. If you can't take the penalties, then don't violate the rules.
posted by tmn856 at 12:05 AM on July 12, 2007
The only problem I have with the whole deal is that it doesn't seem like the NCAA was really "punishing" OU. As mentioned above, 2 scholarships in college football doesn't amount to squat and vacating the wins for a lackluster 2005 season (sandwiched between two pretty good seasons) is almost doing the program a favor. The real question is would the NCAA have punished OU at all if the infractions happened in '04 or '06? I personally don't think so.
posted by ksb122 at 08:57 AM on July 12, 2007
I believe that the punishment is fair considering that the major problems created came from Kelvin Sampson and the basketball team. He of course bolted to Indiana and left the basketball program because he knew this. Then they lost about the most heralded class they have ever recruited. He cheated and got caught. What I have the biggest problem with on this is that they took away the wins that all the other players had worked so hard to achieve. For those of you that think this is fair, what about Reggie Bush and USC??? Instead of the $7,100 in overpayments to Bomar and $8,400 to JD Quinn, what about the roughly half a million that Reggie got? They had agents in the locker rooms and on the fields.... talk about lack of institutional control. His parents went from an appt. to a mansion and nobody noticed? The "pimped" ride that Reggie all of the sudden began driving on campus? Didn't anyone else notice these things. But, that all got swept away and a team that kicks the starting QB and O-Lineman off the team is treated as a worse villian than them. He knowingly had meetings and even took other players with him. Are they not supposed to check on how he obtained such a nice ride and where his parents have moved to? Talk about lame..... money, car, mansion? Seems like lack of control to me.
posted by Mickster at 12:13 PM on July 12, 2007
Mickster, i agree with you regarding USC. I think it is interesting how USC gets a free pass while OU (IMHO) is getting a little overpunished.
posted by brainofdtrain at 01:50 PM on July 12, 2007
It seems like the NCAA has it's whipping dogs. I mean...what did OU ever do to the NCAA? First the NCAA refs give Oregon the game on two RIDICULOUS penalties. Now this?
posted by True Blue at 05:02 PM on July 12, 2007
The NCAA has become borderline Fascist. Its sad that our secondary education system, once a bastian for new ideas and challenging of the status quo, has become so rigid, unflexible and completely un-open to challenging that staus-quo, like it was when my parents were in college. Bobby Knight once complained that the NCAA rulebook was thicker than the Constitution of the U.S. The reason being that the NCAA hides behind rules and regulations, stating that education is its highest regard, while taking in huge revenues. Then it punishes fans, schools, coaches, and teamates when students break the rules. This is a perfect example, the school stumbles upon these misdeeds, punishes Bromar and Quinn by kicking them of the team and sanctioning themselves. Then the NCAA hops on the train and does its fascist, vacating wins bit, which is retarded. The scholarships are meaningless...2 big whoop! Vacating wins is akin to what Communist China does, it removes all media that doesnt agree with the state. I.E. Go online in China, search for the chinese equivalent of the words democracy, freedom, or Tienemann Square...you wont find them. I live in Indy, I'm sure if I go downtown to the NCAA HQ building I wont find any refrences to the Fab-Five, etc. I always like to tell the Jamal Crawford story when I spew my NCAA hate, just to let people know why. When in high school, Crawford came from a violent ghetto where he watched his best friend get shot to death right in front of him. Someone saw his potential and took him out of that ghetto and put him in a good school, paid his bills, basically made sure he wasnt one of those ESPN "could-have-been" stories. Then he graduated, and signed with my homer, the University of Michigan. He played half his freshman season, than was suspended for this, the NCAA said he was "taking" money or whatever BS charge they put on him. Since Jamal was already the best player on UofM's team at the time(by a long shot) he decided that since the 10 game suspension was unfair, that he would to talk to an agent to see if he could enter the draft at years end. The NCAA responded to this action by suspending him for the rest of the season. I could go on and on, how about the story of the NCAA threatening Clemson University by saying that they would not have any College World Series games in S. Carolina (or is it NC) if...get this, the confederate flag wasnt taken down from the State Capitol Bldg. Talk about overstepping your boundaries. I may never understand the Souths infatuation with that flag or the endless re-enactment of the war they lost, but who am I (or the NCAA 4 that matter) to challenge what a states legislators and voters want. Aarrghhh I need to stop blogging on these NCAA columns they get me all fired-up!
posted by dezznutz at 10:58 AM on July 13, 2007
Oregon stills sucks
posted by sgtcookzane at 11:20 PM on July 19, 2007
Don't understand why the old wins are not counted as losses now, though I don't know that it really matters anyway. Does this impact any of the individual stats for the players in the vacated wins?