11/21/24
May 25, 2006
Its a longshot
posted by everett at 12:16 AM on May 26, 2006
Matt Hughes is more one dimensional than Gracie. What stand up does Hughes have? Gracie will educate Hughes on what the ground game is about.
posted by Familyman at 06:00 AM on May 26, 2006
Didn't Gracie just fight in the UFC? I thought he already fought Hughes. Who won that last fight with Gracie? (and who fought - since clearly I am confused, but also firewalled at work.)
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:10 AM on May 26, 2006
As an amateur fighter I have seen and participated in a lot of UFC style events and to say that Matt Hughes is a one dimensional fighter is foolish. Hughes has tremendous strength and striking capabilities on his feet and his wrestling takedowns are his trademark. Pound for pound some even consider him the strongest fighter the UFC has ever had. Gracie is the true one dimensional fighter in this match and the UFC has changed a lot since the days of the Gracie infomercial UFC. If Hughes keeps the fight standing Gracie does not stand a chance. BTW Gracie has been fighting sporadically in Japan with mixed success since his UFC days.
posted by BigCat33 at 08:36 AM on May 26, 2006
gracie has never fought hughes and, in fact, hasn't fought in the ufc since the mid-90's. he's been fighting in japan, primarily. additionally, gracie may be one dimensional BUT he is an expert at that one dimension. in the early ufc's, gracie would have to fight 2-3 times a night and would have to defend a plethora of different styles......and he was still undefeated. IMO, even if hughes tries to keep the fight standing-gracie will find a way to get it to the ground. and hughes is just cocky enough to abandon and gameplan to prove a point (i.e. that he is better than gracie on the ground). i'm a huge fan of both fighters and it should be one of the best matches ever.
posted by ksb122 at 09:13 AM on May 26, 2006
When Gracie was fighting in the early UFC's there were very few fighters familiar with Gracie JiuJitsu which proved to be a huge advantage. This unfamiliarity was the main reason the UFC was formed by the Gracies (ie Gracie Infomercial). Now everyone practices Jiujitsu of some sort in their game plan and most know how to defend against it, especially Matt Hughes whos only recent losses have come by submission. Also with the strict rules about movement on the ground and the crowds thirst for action Royce will not be given the time he needs to work submissions like he did in the old days, he will be stood up by the ref. Sure Hughes will shoot on Gracie but all he needs to do, if unsuccessful is defend and wait for the ref to stand the two back up. This fight is great because it will show how the UFC has evolved but I see a 15minute fight going to decison with Hughes coming out on top, unless Hughes catches gracie with a super slam to end it.
posted by BigCat33 at 10:12 AM on May 26, 2006
Thanks, everett. I was going to post this, but you beat me to it. This is going to be a highly anticipated matchup. Matt Hughes is definately not a one dimensional fighter. He is better on the ground, but his standup has improved dramatically in the last few years. And his body slams are devastating. Royce Gracie is an anaconda. He gets his opponent on the ground and it's fight over. He's beaten some strong guys in the past. That said, I don't think Gracie will beat Hughes. I think Matt is a very polished fighter with the strength to go with his skill. It seems there are a lot more fighters today that incorporate different mma styles into their training. Back when Gracie started, fighters truly were one dimensional. Not to take anything away from Gracie. He is the best Brazilian jiu- jitsu practitioner the US has ever seen. I think Hughes will take Gracie down early in the fight and ground and pound to a victory. I think the UFC is more entertaining nowadays than boxing. There are more skilled fighters in the UFC than there are in boxing and it's not weighed down by all these phony organizations that give out a championship belt. You've got guys like Chuck Lidell, Rich Franklin, Tim Sylvia (who will give his belt back to Arlovski in July), Tito Ortiz and up and comers like Forrest Griffin, Diego Sanchez and so on. It's going to be a good card Saturday night.
posted by Desert Dog at 10:32 AM on May 26, 2006
I am looking forward to this fight as I have never seen Gracie fight! I only "discovered" the sport and how great it is about 6 months ago. In my mind it is on its way to supplanting boxing as the ultimate one-on-one test of athletic and competitive manhood. Although I am already starting to see some bad decisions creeping into the sport, I saw two no-name guys lose the decisions on fights they clearly dominated over fighters that came up through the reality show (one of them was some guy who owned Forrest Griffin for three rounds and lost a unanimous decison) Let's Get It On!
posted by vito90 at 11:03 AM on May 26, 2006
BigCat33-good points and i agree MMA has evolved considerably over the last 10-15 years. however, gracie has spent the last several years fighting in PRIDE and K-1. while the fighters in those organization may not be a strong as UFC, it seems gracie's style and mentality would have evolved with the rest of the sport. don't get me wrong, i don't think gracie has converted to a stand-up fighter (where hughes has the decided advantage) since the ref has the power to stand the fighters back up now, it could alter gracie's gameplan. i still think this could be hughes toughest test since he'll be up against a grappler who's as skilled (or slightly more, perhaps) than he is.
posted by ksb122 at 11:31 AM on May 26, 2006
I think it will be a very interesting fight and a great card. Initially I was thinking Matt Hughes would win, but the more I hear him talk the more convinced I am that Gracie will prevail. The reason being is that every time I hear Matt talk, he talks about his strength, conditioning, and the fact that he was an all American wrestler several times. True he is the strongest and best conditioned 170 pounder out there, but frankly his stand up isn't all that good, (not that any UFC fighter could stand up against a top boxer) and his strength is on the ground. Unfortunately for him, regardless if he is the strongest 170 pound guy and a great wrestler, Gracie has fought way stronger guys that weighed 260, heavyweights like Kimo and Olympic wrestler Dan Severn, and defeated them easily. Hughes will take Gracie down to the ground which is exactly where Gracie wants to be. Matt has been submitted by lesser opponents than Gracie, Matt is stepping up a few pounds in weight, and regardless of how strong he is pound for pound, he is not particularly strong and actually small compared to those heavyweights Gracie has easily handled. In fact several in one night. If Hughes had a game plan that didn't involve manhandling Gracie, I'd think he have a better chance. But Gracie has proved many times big and strong doesn't work against him. If Hughes wins it will be a boring fight, as his only chance is to not make one mistake that gets him submitted, and eek out a decision by riding on top and controlling Gracie without getting choked out or subbmitted in the process. That will no be very exciting.
posted by Atheist at 11:32 AM on May 26, 2006
Matt Hughes is more one dimensional than Gracie. What stand up does Hughes have? Gracie will educate Hughes on what the ground game is about. So wait... What are you saying is Hughes' one dimension? To say that Hughes is one dimensional is just silly, he knocks people out like a madman; That guy has elbows and fists made out cast iron. Not to mention that most of his victories in the last few years have been from submissions. I really have a hard time seeing a scenario where Gracie beats Hughes, but then again that is what Gracie does best. Also, good submission artists have had Matt in trouble more than a couple times throughout his career. That is why this is a freakin post, because this is going to be the best damn UFC fight maybe ever!!!!! or at least the most anticipated.
posted by everett at 11:43 AM on May 26, 2006
Wow, I can't wait to see this fight. Of course I will have to wait until it's released on DVD and on Netflix (which is how I've watched UFC 30-57). It'll be a good fight, Hughes is more than a bit of a freak physically. He is so strong compared to others at 170 it's a bit ridiculous. Of course if you've watched Hughes, you know he can be a little sloppy on the ground, because he does have that strength advantage. Which has led to his various losses by submission. But that assumes Gracie can get to that position. My call Hughes by TKO in the second round.
posted by patrickje at 12:07 PM on May 26, 2006
Matt hughes may be the strongest pound for pound fighter ever but Royce has beaten men a lot bigger and stronger than Hughes, and as for Royce being a one dimensional fighter, that may be, but he has beaten men of all styles of fighting. Im not counting Matt out in any way at all but everyone is going to be highly entertained for sure.
posted by 8iron71 at 12:21 PM on May 26, 2006
The only other thing that really hasn't come up much is the fact that Matt Hughes is in the prime of his career, and Gracie is in the waning years of his. I can only imagine that is going to be at least somewhat of a factor. I know that Gracie says he's been doing all this fighting in Japan, but really no one knows what kind of shape his body is in... relatively to Hughes of course.
posted by everett at 12:37 PM on May 26, 2006
Yes, everett - that's the key I think. Gracie is for my money, easily the more skilled and accomplished fighter - and has handled highly skilled beasts far larger and stronger than Hughes, but Gracie is also in his 40s and his days of tackling three guys in one night was over 10 years ago. Hughes is only getting better. After his loss to BJ Luckypants there, he has pretty much destroyed all comers. Georges St. Pierre was deadly to all others and Hughes took care of him handily - absorbing a few shots to make sure he got his way.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:46 PM on May 26, 2006
True that... The St Pierre fight was great, But, I think Gracie is only 39.
posted by everett at 12:51 PM on May 26, 2006
Really the only negative I see for Gracie is that in his prime, many of his opponets had no knowledge of Brazilian Ju-Jitsu, and no defense for it. Now everybody in the UFC has some Brazilian Ju Jitsu training. It is why at first wrestling and Ju Jitsu dominated, now strikers like Chuck Liddell start doing well. It all about adjusting to the strengths and weaknesses.
posted by Atheist at 01:09 PM on May 26, 2006
Matt Hughes is the most annoying champ in UFC history and I hope Gracie folds his arm in two.
posted by ggermanctl@sbcglobal at 06:14 PM on May 26, 2006
I am looking forward to this fight as well. My money's on Gracie but you never know. Either way, yeah, UFC and mma-style fighting is alot more captivating than boxing has been for a long time.
posted by fenriq at 01:16 AM on May 27, 2006
Did anyone watch it? How was it? I saw the results, but I wanted to hear your input on the quality of the match.
posted by Samsonov14 at 12:57 PM on May 28, 2006
The fight was ridiculous sam, Hughes beat the hell out Gracie. Gracie landed one or two soft jabs, but the fight was on the ground almost the whole time, with Hughes basically giving Gracie elbows and fists to the head. I was impressed that Gracie was able to get out of the arm bar, but once he gave Hughes his back it was lights out. Despite what most of the commenters to this thread said, I don't think this really surprised too many people who really watch MMA, Gracie is way out of his prime, and probably wasn't as good as Hughes when he was in it. MMA is so much more refined nowadays; people have learned from Gracie's early dominance, and they have learned well. He revolutionized the sport to the point where it is beyond even him.
posted by everett at 01:35 PM on May 28, 2006
not surprised at all, everett. when they showed replays of gracie's earlier fights it was clear that when someone got on top of gracie back then, they weren't sure what to do. now MMA fighters are well versed in how to handle that situation and gracie can no longer wait for his opponent to make a mistake. hughes showed just how much MMA fighting has evolved in the last 10 years. however, you have to give gracie a hand because he never tapped out in the arm-bar or during the last barrage of punches from hughes. on a side note, this is twice diego sanchez got a favorable call from the judges....i felt allessio won that match.
posted by ksb122 at 07:49 PM on May 28, 2006
Yeah,whats the deal with diego?? why all the respect? is it cause of the show?
posted by everett at 07:56 PM on May 28, 2006
i'm not sure. the guy has got obvious talent (you can't go 17-0 on sheer luck). but in his last two fights, it seemed like his opponent was able to neutralize his grappling and do pretty significant damage. i suppose, though, that his record and semi-high profile play somewhat into the judges decisions.
posted by ksb122 at 07:23 AM on May 29, 2006
That Alessio/Sanchez fight was ushering the UFC into boxing-style refereeing. Ridiculous. Gracie was demo-ed. No bones about it. Couple other decent fights on an otherwise underwhelming night. Loved the double-knee takedown.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:01 AM on May 29, 2006
funny you used that example, weedy, because this is the second fight in staples center that had a controversial judges decision. the other was "the contender" rematch (boxing) between mora/manfredo that manfredo clearly dominated but mora got the decision.
posted by ksb122 at 09:33 AM on May 29, 2006
I felt a little let down that Hughes dominated Gracie in that manner. I was really hoping there'd be some back and forth. (can someone please explain how Gracie didn't tap on that armlock? my word!) The Sanchez fight was one giant craptacular. The fans were right to boo like that. Alessio might not have been aggressive enough, but his defense seemed to be the edge (save for the last barrage of punches as Diego seemingly tried to influence the outcome). Mike Swick was definitely the highlight. Probably not ready for Franklin, but he's been super impressive in every fight since TUF1. I'd personally like to see a Swick/Leben matchup.
posted by YukonGold at 10:15 AM on May 29, 2006
Re: Gracie not tapping out on the arm bar. I agree, yukes, that looked sunk in all the way to Poughkeepsie. Hughes was almost literally straddling the arm. I was impressed too, by the testicular fortitude displayed by Gracie. Too bad the result of getting out of it was uninterrputed shots to the back of the head. I also can't believe Hughes also passed Gracie's half-guard. That was undoable a few years ago - he made it look easy. Total domination. Swick/Leben would be killer. What's great is I can also imagine at least another half-dozen match-ups that would equally be killer. It's a good crop of fighters we've got going here. I think Ortiz vs. Shamrock is going to be snooze-city, though. Shamrock is a shadow of his former self.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:54 AM on May 29, 2006
And did you see Gracie's face during the arm bar? He was totally placid, angelic. Looked like he was taking a vacation. I think Hughes could have snapped the arm in half and he wouldn't have tapped out. Looking forward to Sylvia-Arlovsky 3
posted by vito90 at 11:17 AM on May 29, 2006
manfredo clearly dominated but mora got the decision. Manfredo v Mora 2 was one of those fights where there was going to be controversy either way the decision was made; there were argments you could make for either fighter winning based on points alone. I tend to agree that Manfredo won, but my frinds who watched the fight with me all disagreed. I'm in total agreement that Tito is going to wipe the mat with Shamrock. As far as Arlovsky Sylvia... I made money on Sylvia in this last fight, but I don't know that I'd be crazy enough bet against Arlovsky twice. That is going to be an epic I think.
posted by everett at 11:57 AM on May 29, 2006
swick/leben have fought before with leben scoring the knockout. a second fight would be much better since both fighters are more experienced.
posted by ksb122 at 09:28 PM on May 29, 2006
well, there's $39.99 I could have put towards the kid's college fund. Thanks for nothing youtube. btw, Leben/Swick highlights can be found on youtube as well.
posted by YukonGold at 02:39 PM on May 30, 2006
I think that Leben might have the hardest chin in all of UFC... that guy can take a freakin punch!
posted by everett at 02:45 PM on May 30, 2006
too bad he doesn't fight in light-heavyweights. we might've one day got to see the two hardest chins in the game today (leben and liddell)fight each other.
posted by ksb122 at 03:00 PM on May 30, 2006
If you watch the clip, Leben takes two legit shots there (one on the right and one on the left) and he just shakes them off an keeps throwing. That's one heck of a start to a round.
posted by YukonGold at 06:22 PM on May 30, 2006
well it didn't take zuffa inc. (ie UFC) long to take down every ufc fight on youtube. oh well, there's still the lame-a$$ backyard brawls...
posted by ksb122 at 08:16 PM on May 30, 2006
gracie all the f'n way