March 12, 2006

A-Rod lifts USA past Japan: 2 yrs. later, Alex Rodriguez finally delivers in Anaheim.
Kuddos to Buck Martinez for knowing the Ump rotation in the bases loaded situation and noticing that the home-plete umpire was actually the one supposed to make the tag call - despite it being the wrong the one - If Buck doesn't preassure, the USA loses that game almost certainly.... Davidson, the home-plate umpire, must be wanting to get back to working in the Majoes badly.... maybe this type of call will make them (MLB Authorities) think he's a "keeper".... Bah!!!

posted by zippinglou to baseball at 10:29 PM - 50 comments

thats whats up

posted by davmor3@verizon.net at 10:55 PM on March 12, 2006

lol...the wrong guy made the call. I'm sure the umps there would have realized that the wrong guy called the play at that moment. Still, A-Rod deserves some props for the big hit in the late innings...way to go team USA!

posted by chemwizBsquared at 11:01 PM on March 12, 2006

I am glad that the umpiring crew got the call right in the end (who needs replay?). But, I am even more astonished that a manager knew enough about the proper mechanics to come out and make the right argument... It is a well founded belief that managers and players have little understanding of the rules of the game and it is certainly refreshing to find one that goes against the CW.

posted by elovrich at 02:34 AM on March 13, 2006

March-Rod.

posted by gspm at 07:11 AM on March 13, 2006

2 yrs. later, Alex Rodriguez finally delivers in Anaheim That's just cold.

posted by dzot at 09:18 AM on March 13, 2006

Hey, it's only 6 months later!

posted by Bernreuther at 10:26 AM on March 13, 2006

Hey, it's only 6 months later! Stop stealing the Red Sox fan jokes

posted by jerseygirl at 11:32 AM on March 13, 2006

"The wrong umpire made the initial call," Davidson said in a statement issued afterward. "That's the plate umpire's call. I had it lined up. It's my call, and I had him leaving early and called him out." So the wrong Ump made the right call which then got reversed by the right Ump who made the wrong call.... Hehe! That's life!

posted by zippinglou at 12:37 PM on March 13, 2006

Hey, it's only 6 months later! I meant 2 years since he arrived to the yankees (and done diddly poop in post season). But yes! 6 months since the last time he was in Anaheim....I'm glad he got that "monkey" off his shoulder... (get it.. monkey (Anaheim))... lol

posted by zippinglou at 12:40 PM on March 13, 2006

GoBirds, we know that you're a Philly fan. You tell us in three-quarters of your comments. It's also in your profile. We recognize this. You may stop telling us now. Thanks!

posted by DrJohnEvans at 12:47 PM on March 13, 2006

I'm glad he got that "monkey" off his shoulder... (get it.. monkey (Anaheim))... lol Zippi, I don't get it. Can you explain, you think it's funny and I don't want to miss a laugh. Thanks.

posted by Termite at 12:58 PM on March 13, 2006

I don't get it. Can you explain, you think it's funny and I don't want to miss a laugh. Thanks were you alive in 2002?

posted by SavyMcSaverson at 01:34 PM on March 13, 2006

Can someone explain to me how American umpires were officiating in this match?

posted by salmacis at 01:38 PM on March 13, 2006

SMS, I don't think you get it either. I was at all those Yankee-Angel Games at Angel Stadium. I don't get the refenecne to "(get it.. monkey (Anaheim))... " You should have reserved your "maiden post" for saying something more intelligent.

posted by Termite at 01:42 PM on March 13, 2006

You should have reserved your "maiden post" for saying something more intelligent. Is it too late for my 'maiden' post? I can wail "Holy Smoke" and "Run to the Hills" on the guitar like a freaking pro. Duh-duh-da-da-DA-duh-DA-duh-da-DA-duh!! Seriously, Maiden is awesome. And if you go to a concert, the crowd is as entertaining as the band.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:49 PM on March 13, 2006

It just clicked in, Rally Monkey... How long have I tried to forget the Rally Monkey. I guess I am not awake yet. Carry-on everybody.......

posted by Termite at 01:49 PM on March 13, 2006

None of which explains how it's funny. Can someone explain to me how American umpires were officiating in this match? I was wondering the same thing during the game, especially when the home plate umpire spent the first few innings trying to display impartiality by squeezing the US starter (from SD; his name escapes me).

posted by yerfatma at 02:51 PM on March 13, 2006

Japan got Screwed! How pissed off would we be if the bad call was on the U.S.A.?

posted by St.Louis Sandi at 03:19 PM on March 13, 2006

I can wail "Holy Smoke" and "Run to the Hills" on the guitar like a freaking pro. What no "Fear of the Dark"? No "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter"? "Stranger in a Strange Land"?

posted by lilnemo at 03:56 PM on March 13, 2006

Out of the five songs listed in that comment, only two are real classics. Anything after Bruce Dickinson left/ came back isn't even up for discussion. And everyone knows The Trooper is their finest hour. And Invaders is unjustly overlooked.

posted by yerfatma at 04:00 PM on March 13, 2006

It just clicked in, Rally Monkey... i'll accept that as your apology.

posted by SavyMcSaverson at 04:17 PM on March 13, 2006

It just clicked in, Rally Monkey... I'm glad someone finally got it! I thought it was funny to paraphrase using Anaheim's rally monkey to the fact that ARod finally got his monkey off his shoulder yesterday in Anaheim....

posted by zippinglou at 06:51 PM on March 13, 2006

Ok, if this is supposed to be the WORLD baseball classic, then I would suggest having the officiating be done with NEUTRAL officials. Sure the language barrier may be difficult, but the last time I checked, major leaguers can read signs and umps can yell out "balls" and "strikes" just fine...

posted by chemwizBsquared at 11:40 PM on March 13, 2006

The fact of the matter is the best umpires are trained and work in the US. It has been since at least 1995 that the Japanese Central league and the Australian league have sent their recruits to the schools here in the states. I have said it in the past and will say it again: It would be palpably obvious from the delay if an umpire had to see the play, run the mental VCR to see it again, as they are trained, and then decide how any particular call would affect the team for which they are supposedly pulling. Even more obvious, would be calls that are made too quickly, indicating that their mind was already made up on the matter. For anyone who really cares about proper umpire mechanics in this instance, with bases loaded and a fly ball to left or left center, the 3rd base umpire goes out for the catch-no catch, the 2nd base umpire stays at second to line up the tag-up there, the plate umpire rotates up the line towars third base to cover the tag-up at third (just as Davidson did) and the 1st base umpire drifts down the line, lining up the tag-up at first and then moving to the plate for any play that may develop there. I did not see the play, so have no opinion on the correctness of Davidson's judgement, but everything that I have read about the rotation tells me that it WAS his call. The really impressive part of this whole situation is that a manager knew the rotation responsibilites well enough to come out to Davidson and make the correct argument in the first place, not arguing the call, but who made it. It is a commonly held belief, for good reason, that a large majority of players, coaches, and managers have little grasp of the ins and outs of the rules of the game they have been around for so long, much less the proper mechanincs in a four-man system. And as for fans.....I would wager that most, even the esteemed members here at SpoFi, cannot enumerate the infield fly rule, or why a move to third and then to first with no throw by the pitcher is not a balk...

posted by elovrich at 12:51 AM on March 14, 2006

It is a commonly held belief, for good reason, that a large majority of players, coaches, and managers have little grasp of the ins and outs of the rules of the game they have been around for so long, much less the proper mechanincs in a four-man system. Where are you getting this from? I think it should read "it is a commonly held belief among umpires." You sound like blue elovrich.

posted by tron7 at 09:00 AM on March 14, 2006

The fact of the matter is the best umpires, bla, bla, bla. Anything that starts with "The fact of the matter is." Is Bullshit. You sound like a politician. elovrich Where did you copy & paste that from ? ? ? ? ?

posted by St.Louis Sandi at 09:23 AM on March 14, 2006

Hi new member, I'd like to introduce you a logical fallacy you're apparently unfamiliar with. Someone takes the time to post a couple paragraphs of their thoughts and your counter-argument is it most be stolen from somewhere. Way to introduce yourself to the neighborhood.

posted by yerfatma at 09:27 AM on March 14, 2006

elovrich is also the only one of us who comes straight outta the biz, so I'm more than happy to give him the benefit of credibility. Thanks for breaking down the four-umpire mechanics, elovrich. That's pretty neat.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 10:19 AM on March 14, 2006

why a move to third and then to first with no throw by the pitcher is not a balk... Guilty. Why is the Frank Castillo not a balk?

posted by yerfatma at 10:29 AM on March 14, 2006

elovrich is also the only one of us who comes straight outta the biz, so I'm more than happy to give him the benefit of credibility. It's still a commonly held belief among umpires. Maybe we should ask erkno and see what he thinks.

posted by tron7 at 11:18 AM on March 14, 2006

why a move to third and then to first with no throw by the pitcher is not a balk... It's because you can make a move toward 2nd or 3rd without making a throw to that base. Then, once you have made the move towards 3rd you basically turn into an infielder and are free to throw back over to 1st. You won't see that move with no one on third because you can't make a move towards an empty base.

posted by tron7 at 11:22 AM on March 14, 2006

Conceited Popinjay has taken to pretentious displays of the most dubious way of truculents. I'm just trying to fit in.

posted by St.Louis Sandi at 12:11 PM on March 14, 2006

Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers...

posted by wingnut4life at 12:30 PM on March 14, 2006

I'm just trying to fit in. Oh, ok then. F-.

posted by yerfatma at 12:58 PM on March 14, 2006

tron7, I accept your edit, among umpires, but I have had conversations with players, coaches ,and managers, where they truly have no clue about the intricacies of the rules. And from conversations with officials at the top level of other sports, it is not a phenomenon unique to baseball. And yes, you are correct for the reason it is not a balk, once the pitcher makes the move to third, as long as the base is occupied, he has disengaged from the rubber and can now throw or fake a throw to any base, occupied or not. By the way, a pitcher can throw to ony base occupied or not, it is just the faking of a throw that is limited to an occupied base. Thank you for the vote of confidence DrJohn. Sandi, if the best training is not available here in the states, why would the professional leagues from around the world send their recruits here? And the instructors at these schools? Hmmmmm, turns out they are MLB and top-in-their-field AAA umpires simply waiting to have their number called. So, it is reasonable to say that the most sought after schools, and their instructors, are the best available. If not then, the Ivy League schools have a lot of 'splainin' to do. Also, what did you mean by copy and paste? The enitre post, the rotation or my name? Conceited Popinjay? If you think so. And, if you care to try to refute any part of my post, I will glady debate the facts and defend my opinions (see the tip of the hat to tron7 above). Now, about the infield fly rule....

posted by elovrich at 01:54 PM on March 14, 2006

It is a commonly held belief, for good reason, that a large majority of players, coaches, and managers have little grasp of the ins and outs of the rules of the game they have been around for so long, Sorry elovrich I smelled arrogant umpire(mistakenly) and if there's anything that pisses me off it's arrogance in umpires. I'm still not sure if I would agree with "large majority" or the idea that managers would be ignorant of the rules.

posted by tron7 at 02:29 PM on March 14, 2006

Now, about the infield fly rule.... This one will be a bit longer. Less than 2 outs, runners on 1st and 2nd or bases loaded. The fly has to be in the infield or easily caught by an infielder. Runners can advance at their own risk if the ball is dropped(or i guess tag up if the ball is caught). If the ball is dropped or missed and lands in foul territory the rule is nullified and it's a foul ball. The call should be made as early as possible to inform the runners. The hard part is deciding whether a ball in the shallow outfield is easily caught. General rule of thumb, don't make the call if the infielder turns his back to run after it. Umm.. I think that's about it. Can't think of anything else.

posted by tron7 at 02:44 PM on March 14, 2006

Tron; At no time did I say they were ignorant of the rules, only that they have little grasp of the ins and outs, the small things that will reach up and bite an umpire on the ass if he gets it wrong. Case in point, you did a fine job with the infield fly rule, but you said that the rule is nullified if the ball lands in foul territory. Close, but it has to either be touched, settle or pass third or first base, if it rebounds or bounces back into fair territory, the batter is still out. (Yep, I made a quick call on this very play once, ruled the ball foul, called the batter out, the runner on third was very bright and ran home. I had to put him back on third since I had killed the play with the foul call. It was a rhubarb to remember.) Or, what happens on a bunted pop up? Infield fly or no? Or an intentionally dropped fly after the umpire calls the batter out? And yes, the rule of thumb is correct, if the fielder turns his back to make the catch, even if he later faces the infield again, the rule would not apply, but what about an outfileder playing short, who runs in and makes the catch 10 feet from the infield skin? These are the types of things that I was referring to. 3 strikes, 3 outs, nine innings are the easy parts. The 3 foot running lane, or even catch no catch, are more difficult, for instance, when is a batted ball caught? Is there a "3-step" rule, or a prescribed amount of time, or "in the grasp" it is surprising the number of players, coaches and managers who have all argued these very "rules" when a no-catch is called. BTW (on the outfielder question, pure judgement on whether an infielder could have made the catch with reasonable effort, infielder being defined as a player positioned in a place usually occupied by such a player, just 'cause the SS started the play 30 feet deep in left-center does not change where the infield is, just that he is no longer an infielder, and a catch is a catch when it is voluntarily released; possession, steps, time, have nothing to do with it. Yes, a batted ball is caught when it is released, and now you know why umpires can be arrogant at times *s*.)

posted by elovrich at 04:01 PM on March 14, 2006

On a related note, if anyone is interested, I would be willing to post insights into the rules of this glorious game of baseball, either in answer to specific questions, or things that I think may be of interest for whatever reason, even just the fact that they are esoteric. The only caveat I would have, is I will not comment on my opinion of the judgement of my brothers in blue (or black, or cream or whatever color they choose to wear this year.) I will answer questions based on what is described in the post, or what I saw live or on replay. If this would be of interest to the community, just post here and I will see what I can come up with.

posted by elovrich at 04:05 PM on March 14, 2006

elovrich, I was just kidding. It's hard for Ladies to fit in with sports. I love Baseball, Hockey and Football as much as you, but most Ladies aka: Fiminazies don't. I still say if that bad call was made on Team U.S.A. we would be knocking heads together. Glad we won, Tainted as it is! Japan got Screwed! Pearl Harbor???

posted by St.Louis Sandi at 04:18 PM on March 14, 2006

As I said in an earlier post, I did not see the play, nor footage of it. All I know is that it WAS Davidson's call to make.

posted by elovrich at 04:22 PM on March 14, 2006

Case in point, you did a fine job with the infield fly rule, but you said that the rule is nullified if the ball lands in foul territory. Close, but it has to either be touched, settle or pass third or first base, if it rebounds or bounces back into fair territory, the batter is still out. C'mon that's nitpicky. I knew all that just didn't write it down because it seemed too general knowledgey or I was lazy I forget which. And I was about to answer all your ins and outs(what have yous) questions before you answered them all yourself, cheater.

posted by tron7 at 04:51 PM on March 14, 2006

You say nitpicky, I say it is what gets managers tossed. Seriously though, you did a fine job, simply saying that a foul ball cannot result in an infield fly would have been sufficient. Ok, time to get serious. 0-2 count, runner on third, 1 out. Batter swings and misses on a ball in the dirt, the follow-through carries the bat around and the batter makes contact with the ball after it has rebounded away from the catcher. Runner advances to third on the ball in the dirt, and the batter arrives at first ahead of the throw from the catcher. Make the call, right now, because you have 2 managers already heading up the steps from their respective dugouts.....

posted by elovrich at 05:03 PM on March 14, 2006

Out! Player interfered when he hit the ball!

posted by St.Louis Sandi at 05:16 PM on March 14, 2006

Will you guys get a friggin' room already?

posted by wingnut4life at 05:18 PM on March 14, 2006

Send the runner back to 3rd.

posted by St.Louis Sandi at 05:20 PM on March 14, 2006

I'd say the batter's safe and the runner would get to move up to wherever he got to provided there was no intent on the follow through and since it already rebounded away from the catcher. I know that if he had caused the catcher to miss the ball because of the follow through it would be a strike and the batter is out but since you said it rebounded off the catcher i'm going with the answer above. Yeah that's a good one though.

posted by tron7 at 05:55 PM on March 14, 2006

Wingnut lets go over to the locker room and stream curses at the baseball prospectus.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:38 PM on March 14, 2006

YYM, wingnut, sorry about that, you are correct of course. So just to wrap this up, and then I will leave any other rules talk for another time/location, dead ball, batter is out, all runners return.

posted by elovrich at 06:50 PM on March 14, 2006

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