04/23/24
July 07, 2002
Kurt Warner. Trent Dilfer. Tom Brady. John Elway was the last quaterback to win a Superbowl who could be characterized as a "known quantity", the last three games have been won by brand new faces or players considered "washed-up" in new uniforms (Dilfer). Will the trend of the surprise quaterback continue (sentiment towards Shane Matthews for me) or will we see folks like Favre (and Warner is now in this category) in the Big Game?
Well, I'd say ol' Dave Carr from the Houston Texans gets my pick because he's a great, young QB with a brand new team that could surprise some people, but really, I'm just saying that because I basically idolize anybody from FSU (that's Fresno, not Florida) that makes it to the pros, and, more importantly, I generally favor the Texans anyway because their cheerleaders are so much better looking than the Cowgirls , who all look like Barbie Dolls to me, or the Raiderettes, who all look like/are? drugged-out prostitutes (this is not a thread hijack, although upon rereading, it really, really looks like one...sorry).
posted by Bixby23 at 03:11 AM on July 08, 2002
I think that this tells as much about a player's response to coaching styles as it does player mobility. I'm constantly amazed that the coaching style doesn't get looked at more in terms of making team decisions. Some players function well when working under a tough system ie Tom Coughlin. Others tend to function better in a more positive environment ie Jim Mora (despite the unkind words in NO). Players tend to function better when their coaching is constant, such as high school, college, and pro coaches adhering to a similar style. Put this together with a high rate of player mobility and the variables are certainly endless. The quarterback is the one player that depends on and is depended on by the most players on the field. When these talented, yet inexperienced quarterbacks get a title, the formula has definitely worked- they respond well to coaching, trust the receivers and backs and vice versa. That's a large bill to fill. The reason that some quarterbacks can garner such long-term success is due in some small part to their ability, but it is due mostly to lack of change. Lack of change has slowly become a hot commodity in the NFL. As for the Favre case, it will very interesting to see how he performs without Antonio Freeman. Freeman was obviously no longer a 12 TD per season player, but the loss will definitely be felt by Favre.
posted by ttrendel at 03:55 AM on July 08, 2002
Not many Hall of Fame-quality quarterbacks have won Super Bowls (Starr, Namath, Dawson, Griese, Staubach, Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, Young, Favre), but you do need elite-quality play if you're going to earn rings. (Not sure if Simms, Theismann and Plunkett are HOF guys or not.) Theismann and Rypien, for instance, were awesome in the years when the Redskins won the Super Bowl, and of course the least you can say about Williams is that his XXII effort was superhuman. Warner was an unkown, but Favre might be the only QB more coveted at this point. Hostetler was probably better than a caretaker. That leaves you Dilfer, who owes his ring to Ray Lewis, and Tom Brady, who the jury is out on. When the talent isn't there, the common denominator in victory is the ability to avoid mistakes, which is what the last two SB winning quarterbacks have done.
posted by jackhererra at 07:53 AM on July 08, 2002
jackhererra - Dilfer actually owes his ring to the team of Atlanta prosecutors that gave Lewis the plea bargain deal, but that's another story. (Besides, there were other players on that defense). Here's a question: Who is the best active QB to never win a SB? Some of the big names: Manning, Brunell, Bledsoe, Testaverde. And, of course, there's always the best QB to never win a Super Bowl, Dan Marino. As for the originally posted questions, I believe that QBs will continue to come out of nowhere to lead their teams to the championship. Here's a heads-up: Look out for Rob Johnson in Tampa. He'll take out Brad Johnson in training camp, then enjoy an actual offense under Gruden that he did not have in Buffalo.
posted by bcb2k2 at 08:54 AM on July 08, 2002
i think that's a no about shane matthews. take it from someone who knows.
posted by moz at 10:31 AM on July 08, 2002
inactive - you take marino, i'll take fouts. active - actually bledsoe has won a superbowl. just not as a starter. looking over the qb stats from last year, there doesn't seem to be a really great qb who lacks a ring. brunell would probably be my pick, followed by manning and then gannon. i drew the line at needing 4 full seasons to qualify. mcnabb, culpepper and garcia haven't put in time for me to consider them yet.
posted by lescour at 11:07 AM on July 08, 2002
Garcia! Sure he doesn't have four full seasons, but he's piddled around different leauges long enough to be considered. I like Mcnabb, but I don't think Philly has made their team any better.
posted by corpse at 11:12 AM on July 08, 2002
I think you gotta add Boomer Esiason and Ken Anderson as two greats who never won the ring. *sigh* The past is all us Bengals fans have. *sniffle*
posted by mick at 01:32 PM on July 08, 2002
lescour - Ya got me...technically, Bledsoe did get a SB ring, so I guess he should not be on the "best to never get it" list. However, he did not win the SB, as he rode the back of another QB in getting it. I, personally, would still consider him to be on the list until he gets one, on his own, as a starter...the measure of a quarterback. Also, nice that you picked Brunell over Manning ;-)
posted by bcb2k2 at 02:49 PM on July 08, 2002
Another great that never won a ring: Fran Tarkenton.
posted by hootch at 02:55 PM on July 08, 2002
I think Garcia could pull one out, but he's played very well - so I don't know if he's so much of a dark horse candidate. Ditto for McNabb. I pooh-poohed Dilfer when he went to Baltimore, but with a defense like that he didn't have to do much to win. As far as the Skins go, defensively they should be great (Marvin Lewis at coordinator, Trotter-Armstead-Arrington at LB, Bailey-Green-Smoot at DB) so maybe the offense of The High Exalted One doesn't have to be as spectacular as The Rams to do something (I'd be happy with a playoff win, talk about your lowered expectations in a post-Gibbs universe - thanks Norv Turner!).
posted by owillis at 03:29 PM on July 08, 2002
This is where I add my obligatory 'this just proves that anyone who says Marino is not the greatest QB of all time is an idiot' comment. :) Basically, for that to be true, Tom Brady and Trent Dilfer have to be better QBs than Marino. TEAM MATTERS, for the nth time. You can bet Marino is going to be a bitter, bitter man watching Ricky Williams this year.
posted by tieguy at 08:04 PM on July 08, 2002
Come to think of it I sound fairly bitter there myself :)
posted by tieguy at 11:26 PM on July 08, 2002
Tom Brady and Trent Dilfer are NOT better QBs than Marino because they won the Superbowl. On the flip side, Joe Montana, John Elway and maybe Kurt Warner are - because of excellent careers AND the Superbowl. ;-)
posted by owillis at 11:46 PM on July 08, 2002
You mean, 'because of excellent careers and good running backs', right? Just to be clear- I think you mis-spelled 'running back' as 'super bowl'. It is a common mistake ;)
posted by tieguy at 01:49 AM on July 09, 2002
Notes: Prosecutors gave the Ravens the SB, true, but it was a different team with Dilfer than it was with Banks, so he deserved some credit... I'd take Marino over Fouts and Tarkenton b/c Dan never had the suppt. cast that even Fouts had and the cast on Tarkenton's Viking teams was lavish to say the least... For the record, no Shane Matthews-led team is making it to the SB, let alone winning it... I'll go with bcb2k2's take on where Bledsoe fits -- in the back of the pack of those waiting to win a ring as opposed to caddying. How about a vote for Chris Chandler? The guy's been injured and on awful teams his entire friggin career, his SB appearance in 2000 notwithstanding... Of the good ones waiting, Garcia has a front-office you can bet on, so I think he has the best chance to win one... As for Rob Johnson, he has the tools and no one wants to be wrong more than I, but he's been choking like a dog in key moments since his junior season at USC. He ain't the one.
posted by jackhererra at 08:04 AM on July 09, 2002
Let's see....off the top of my head Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostleter (sp?), and Jim McMahon all come to mind as (relatively) unspectacular quarterbacks who have walked off the field with a ring, so I'm not so sure if the batch of little-heralded QBs leading their teams to the title is a new. Wouldn't hold my breath on Shane Matthews, though. Not this season, at least.