11/21/24
November 16, 2005
From National Hero to draft dodger.: I just thought this tidbit was interesting. I didn't realize Vlade was still a Serb citizen.
posted by willthrill72 to basketball at 09:52 AM - 47 comments
Wow, very interesting. Since Serbia-Montenegro does not have our Constitution, I'll guess here, but I won't research what legal rights an individual has there. Assuming he is still a resident so obligated to serve in the military of Serbia-Montenegro, it begs one to ask what the statute of limitations is there. Or, technically, what factors determine that he is a citizen/resident? Or what their extradition rights are. Or what exceptions apply (can you say Olympics). Or, and i digress, what other pressing social issues are present. Anyway, lawyers have fun, this is a lawyer's dream case.... (big money client facing vague charges).
posted by koyaan at 10:54 AM on November 16, 2005
mcstan, i understand your point, but it's replete with non-sequitors. 'Taking my opinion out of it,' Bill's situation is far, far, far different than Vlade's. They cannot be juxtaposed.
posted by koyaan at 11:09 AM on November 16, 2005
I'm not quite sure who is making a big deal out of it. I even called it a "tidbit" upon posting. I thought it was interesting from the standpoint that the country has enormous issues facing it yet they still pursue Vlade for dodging and not fulfulling his obligation to say no one is above the law. I also thought it would be interesting to see if and how the US might intervene. Leave the guy alone. If it is good enough for Bill it should be good enough for Vlade. I don't see your point here. Serbia is pursuing Vlade, not the US. I don't see what one has to do with the other.
posted by willthrill72 at 11:40 AM on November 16, 2005
Didn't Vlade play for his national team in the Olympics ,years ago?I thought he did. and if so why wasn't there a contraversy then?I also thought that I had read that he and some other athletes went to his home to help with some relief efforts in the past few years.{I seem to remember Bryan Cox making a statement that "it was worse than East Chicago"}At any rate-Vlade is past the age of service to the NBA,and I would imagine same be said for commitment to service.
posted by Tubby Fan at 11:57 AM on November 16, 2005
Why would the US intervene? This is a matter between Vlade and his home country. It really has nothing to do with us!
posted by daddisamm at 11:58 AM on November 16, 2005
Why would the US intervene? This is a matter between Vlade and his home country. It really has nothing to do with us!
posted by daddisamm at 11:58 AM on November 16, 2005
gotcha gotcha
posted by willthrill72 at 12:05 PM on November 16, 2005
???????gotcha?? what's with that?
posted by daddisamm at 12:50 PM on November 16, 2005
Ok, enough gotcha. Everything following mcstan's first sentence is disqaulified, "I am not even going to read this article." Need we say any more regarding his comments? Now let's comment on the actual topic..... I'm still looking for a comment that follows besides 'gotcha', and that is original in thought.... everything said has been a repeat of a previous post (namely mine, which is boring)
posted by koyaan at 01:09 PM on November 16, 2005
Bill Clinton and George W. both did what was the popular things to do at the time. Clinton dodged the draft by going to school. The Oxford thing was all about avoiding service. Many people like "Slick Willy" did the same thing. G.W. on the other hand, did what alot of others did as well-They 'served" in the national guard or reserve. Unlike today, the quard and reserves werent used as much in the front line service. So they "served" yet avoided going to Viet Nam. As a person who enlisted and served his country I find both methods of avoiding War as "dodging" ... I figure what both did was basicall the same thing-ie avoiding goping to whre the WAR was. This thing with Vlade is a totally differant thing as we dont know all of the details. The political and security situations are are quite different in his country...I would think that if he is going to play on the national team, he should serve his country shere it might make a difference. I am sure they wouldnt put him in harms way. Every country has differant rules for military service. In the 60's and 70's alot of people "dodged" they draft in many differant ways. It was a very difficult time in our country. It will be interesting to see what happnes here.
posted by daddisamm at 01:30 PM on November 16, 2005
Clinton dodged the draft by going to school. The Oxford thing was all about avoiding service Would you turn down a chance to be a Rhodes scholar to go off and die in 'Nam. I didn't think so.
posted by HATER 187 at 01:36 PM on November 16, 2005
Why would they go after Vlade when they can't even catch ALL of their war criminals running around Eastern and western Europe? What do you think is more important: getting all the men that killed about 8,000 men women and children in one month, or getting Vlade Divac to serve in the Serbian Army? Obviously, this is about opportunists trying to make news and a buck.
posted by tadley86 at 01:55 PM on November 16, 2005
Obviously, this is about opportunists trying to make news and a buck. I'm not quite sure how Serbia makes any money by enforcing their laws and making Vlade serve his required time in the military. What does the Gov't have to gain exactly?
posted by willthrill72 at 02:03 PM on November 16, 2005
The fact is this: draft-dodging, skipping or exemption IN THE US is completely off-topic for this post. (Bill and George have no parallels relevant to this situation; it is solely what we can immediately grab on to as 'examples' or a tangible equivalent.) Nobody in the US went to play professional sports in a foreign country and were then called to serve in his country of origin upon retirement. Much less play on the Olympic team of a country that now ceases to officially exist (was it the Yugo army he was 'obligated' to join.) Serbia-Montenegro is attempting to serve Vlade with a draft notice: "It asked Serbia-Montenegro's foreign ministry "to determine Divac's citizenship and his home address" to be able to carry out the legal proceedings and hand him the draft notice." This is about an NBA star who is being called out by his homeland (citizen or not) to serve in their military. It could be an attempt to make him an example (since he is high profile) or it could be an attempt to ruin his status as a future indigenous politician. Or anything else... you make the call....
posted by koyaan at 02:08 PM on November 16, 2005
willthrill72: Vlade's going to need a lawyer from somehwere. Some reporter will get paid for exclusives on this non-story. There will be money to be made somewhere; unfortunately it will mostly be Vlade's money.
posted by tadley86 at 02:25 PM on November 16, 2005
I agree koyan-I was trying to establish that fact. This is between Vlade and his country.....
posted by daddisamm at 02:27 PM on November 16, 2005
Gold Plated Moronathon
posted by dusted at 03:14 PM on November 16, 2005
Man, for a tidbit, this sure appears to have generated a lot of amimosity.
posted by graymatters at 03:37 PM on November 16, 2005
The closest parallel you can draw regarding an athlete not serving would be Mohamad Ali. He refused the draft in this country.
posted by whitetiger at 03:49 PM on November 16, 2005
not to generate any 'amimosity', (thanks graymatters) but Ali is not close, (Ali G and Kazak, well maybe), Ali didn't leave the US, box on behalf of the US, have residence in the foreign country where he boxed on the US's behalf, then have the US try to draft him when he retired. This is a very unique situation.
posted by koyaan at 05:31 PM on November 16, 2005
'amimosity' I need a splle czecher.
posted by graymatters at 06:37 PM on November 16, 2005
I figure what both did was basicall the same thing-ie avoiding goping to whre the WAR was. Same thing? One lied to stay out to pursue politics and women. The other joined and flew jets. I too served in Viet Nam (USMC - 0331 - 66-67). The latter was no draft dodger. He served his country. The former was a draft dodger of the worst kind.
posted by STLCardinalfan at 06:57 PM on November 16, 2005
graymatters, i hope you laughed (as i did), helped to segue, (me thought) no offense was intended, i thought it accentuated your pt., maybe it was too subtle
posted by koyaan at 06:59 PM on November 16, 2005
i guess this is too sensitive a topic for ppl to talk about the factual situation, (does not involve ANY American, any of our presidents, any 'conscientious objectors', Rhodes Scholars (fyi, you apply for that, you aren't 'chosen'), the '60s, 70s, Viet Nam, Korea or any other war involving America; Americans, Ali, politics, women, the Marine Corp, draft dodger's, Area 51, Apollo 13, etc., etc.) So, where were we..... exactly, guess that makes a futile argument for good conversation. Unless you want to talk about Iraq?............ (knock yourself out):
posted by koyaan at 07:10 PM on November 16, 2005
Gold Plated Moronathon Feck that. This shit's platinum.
posted by Ufez Jones at 07:13 PM on November 16, 2005
Gold Plated Moronathon Feck that. This shit's platinum.
posted by Ufez Jones at 07:13 PM on November 16, 2005
Bling^2, apparently (stupid modem problems).
posted by Ufez Jones at 07:14 PM on November 16, 2005
Diamond-encrusted platinum.
posted by dusted at 12:44 AM on November 17, 2005
Ok ok--why was the thing posted in the first place?
posted by daddisamm at 12:52 AM on November 17, 2005
Ok, I have heard a lot of points and for the most part they are right on. "The fact is this: draft-dodging, skipping or exemption IN THE US is completely off-topic for this post. (Bill and George have no parallels relevant to this situation; it is solely what we can immediately grab on to as 'examples' or a tangible equivalent.)"-Koyaan However, are we over looking the fact that his country is going after him because he missed a necessary 6 month term before the age of 35. Ok I get it. In his country they are trying to state that no one is above the law. However, Vlade is 37.... How the hell is his 7'0, (as we have seen in his last two years) slow, 37 year old ass going to fight in a war. Secondly, you think for a man who has put his country on the sports map (2 silver medals...I think), they would let up a little and let this one slide. But hey I guess only in America can you have a draft-dodging citizen be the leader of a country. Speaking of which.....Why does Sadam Hussan hate going down on his wife? Because he hates Bush!
posted by Squeakytorres at 09:20 AM on November 17, 2005
(USMC - 0331 - 66-67) Ah, yes. There are few rhetorical devices more devastating than the serial number. (I learned that at the Minneapolis Public Library-- 2-2088-00692-9499)
posted by cobra! at 09:25 AM on November 17, 2005
When it comes to serving in the military, many countryies have manditory service requirements for people into their 40's and 50's. If you want a good example look up the military service requirements for the country of Isreal.
posted by daddisamm at 11:03 AM on November 17, 2005
cobra!, you want to give me the Dewey Decimal for that row?
posted by yerfatma at 12:36 PM on November 17, 2005
Sure. Dewey, look around 808.5. If you're an LOC type, you want the P302.Ys.
posted by cobra! at 01:24 PM on November 17, 2005
Seems like a waste of Huey and Louie, but it beats a musty old card catalog.
posted by yerfatma at 02:03 PM on November 17, 2005
This isn't about draft dodging, this is about avarice and corruption. Just like expatriate Serbs/Montenegrins/Albanians who had millions of dollars in Jugobank savings accounts frozen by the Serb government to pay for illegal military/paramilitary action fifteen years ago, Divac is falling victim to a group of criminal strongmen who use their government posts to line their own pockets. Nothing to do with the draft, and less to do with American draft politics or just wars. If Vlade wasn't rich, nobody would bother shaking him down.
posted by Hugh Janus at 03:23 PM on November 17, 2005
Ah, yes. There are few rhetorical devices more devastating than the serial number. You thought that was a serial number?
posted by STLCardinalfan at 03:35 PM on November 17, 2005
At first, yeah. After posting, I parsed out that 66-67 was probably some year-of-service reference. Whatever it is, it's not very convincing on the matter of Clinton's or Bush's draft positions, neither of which are very convincing in the case of Vlade Divac.
posted by cobra! at 04:25 PM on November 17, 2005
At first, yeah. After posting, I parsed out that 66-67 was probably some year-of-service reference. Whatever it is, it's not very convincing on the matter of Clinton's or Bush's draft positions, neither of which are very convincing in the case of Vlade Divac. I was responding to another post but thank you for your interest. No doubt service references are beyond your comprehension.
posted by STLCardinalfan at 05:10 PM on November 17, 2005
Name, rank, serial number. Perhaps cobra! could drop and give you 20?
posted by yerfatma at 05:40 PM on November 17, 2005
Name, rank, serial number. Perhaps cobra! could drop and give you 20? You keep the 20. I'll just take a post that doesn't lecture me in how to be convincing.
posted by STLCardinalfan at 06:09 PM on November 17, 2005
You keep the 20. I'll just take a post that doesn't lecture me in how to be convincing. Needs work. C-.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:22 PM on November 17, 2005
Needs work. C-. Was hoping for a C.
posted by STLCardinalfan at 06:55 PM on November 17, 2005
Truly, our president is an inspiration to the common man.
posted by yerfatma at 07:07 PM on November 17, 2005
Truly, our president is an inspiration to the common man. On target, outstanding and perceptive! I'm a man. I'm common. I'm inspired.
posted by STLCardinalfan at 07:31 PM on November 17, 2005
Keep your eye on me, Holmes: I'm going places. Like bed.
posted by yerfatma at 08:44 PM on November 17, 2005
I am not even going to read this article. This is the stupidest thing that the media can write about. (Now I am all about military service and draft dodgers should go to jail). Taking my opinion out of it, the American public elected a draft dodger as Commander in Chief of the Military. Now we are going to make a big deal about a B-Ball player who did it in a country that has been embroiled in war for years. Give me a break. Leave the guy alone. If it is good enough for Bill it should be good enough for Vlade.