11/21/24
November 15, 2005
Finally a "2ND" Scorer to Go With Allen Iverson?: How Long does anyone think this will last? I think if Webber stays healthy and AI's confidence stays up. The division is in trouble. Keep in mind their starting center (Sam Dalembert) is still out.
posted by RZA to basketball at 11:35 PM - 18 comments
Who is this "2nd Scorer"? Does he have a name? Has he played yet? I don't think I've seen him...
Weber is big man who is afraid to drive hard to the net. I really can't stand "pure shooters" like him or Allen "praise Allah, he finally retired" Houston. His inability (or chickenshitness) to drive the lane is what has kept this pansy from being an elite player like Allen Iverson. The Sixers live and die by the play of AI and AI alone.
posted by HATER 187 at 08:32 AM on November 16, 2005
At least Houston played shooting guard. Chris Webber, Antoine Walker, and Glen Robinson are all really frustrating players to me, because despite their height and size they'd rather be jump shooting nowhere near the rim than mixing it up down low. I don't really care how well they can shoot - a big man outside the paint is one less big man jostling for an offensive rebound. Jermaine O'Neal does this at times too. It's frustrating watching a guy who absolutely dominates on the boards in the playoffs average 9 during the regular season. But then what do you do with a guy like Nowitzki? Nowitzki's career rebounding average is lower than Webber's, and his career field goal percentage is lower too. When you compare Webber's numbers to all of these players, in fact, Webber looks to be the most complete player by far. It's an interesting observation, I guess. Everytime I watch Webber play I agree with your contention that he just doesn't seem to be doing enough. Something about his game is frustrating. Perhaps it's because it looks like he has all the tools to be a completely dominant player, rather than a very good one.
posted by chmurray at 09:06 AM on November 16, 2005
So where do you play Weber? A power forward's got to love contact, and C. Web fails the test. (Have you ever seen C Web knock somebody down as they drove the lane?) C Web certainly doesn't fit at center either, not in the NBA at least. Dallas built their team around Nowitski, who actually works best in the small forward spot which provides match up headaches for the opposing team. But unlike Dirk, C Web can't pull that off. C Web, has yet to establish an identity. At first, Sac tried to build around Weber at the center spot, when that didn't work they moved him to power forward and then, like Dirk in Dallas, tried to play him somwhere in between power and small forward. When that didn't work they shipped him off to Philly.
posted by old school at 10:17 AM on November 16, 2005
I don't really care how well they can shoot - a big man outside the paint is one less big man jostling for an offensive rebound. C'mon, it drags the other teams big men out to cover them thus opening the lane for penetration. Try convincing any basketball coach that a big man that can shoot is a bad thing. Perhaps it's because it looks like he has all the tools to be a completely dominant player, rather than a very good one. I got the opposite reaction. From watching him last year I got the feeling that he had lost a step or three and that all he could do is score. He looked like the least athletic guy on the court, though he may have been coming back from an injury i'm not sure(when isn't he).
posted by tron7 at 10:30 AM on November 16, 2005
Whoa. Take it easy there Philly. Nice numbers - but remember, this was against the Raptors. They suck. I should know.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:59 PM on November 16, 2005
Whoa. I hardly intended this thread to announce to the world that c webb is a "great big man". My intention was to make it known that for the first time in AI's 10 yr career, that another player on his team is averaging more than 20 ppg 8 games in. AI's also averaging 8.5 assts pg which maybe why.(yes its early but can they keep it up? and whats happens if they do?) However C webb didnt do well last yr(yes is was having knee trouble as usual). That said, he also has his weight down and is in the best shape he's been in 5 yrs(so they say).If they keep it up, do they win the division? And hater187,think before you talk. The greatest big men were all great shooters. Hell, abdul-jabbar invented the 15-17 foot sky hook. Hakeem Olajuan* could hit 3's. Pat Ewing had one of the bets touches at 16 feet. I Kinda get your point about a big man that wont "mix it up". Thats 1 thing. But a big man who can shoot is a coaches dream(Magic Johnson/Kevin Mchale/Kevin Garnett/Tim Duncan/Dirk Nowitski).
posted by RZA at 04:58 PM on November 16, 2005
I agree with RZA. CWEbb is a coaches dream just because he has a great outside touch. He does not mix it up, but he will give you 10 boards a game. His 18 footers draw the D out 18 feet to come and defend, thus opening up the paint. Recall how the Lakers went through hell trying to contend with the Kings in 2001? They had the perfect inside/outside game. The top 8 guys on the roster can shoot 15 footers and beyond. I think Webb is misunderstood. He is a small forward in a powerforwards body, who can shoot, pass, and rebound. If Philly plays him at smallforward, that is a hell of a matchup problem for a shitload of teams. And yeah, Philly is a legitimate threat, especially when Dalembart gets back.
posted by il trooper at 09:19 PM on November 16, 2005
RZA- My gripe with C. Web is that he chooses not to mix it up. Ewing could get in your face and throw it down or nail a jumper. Web has the ability to do more than he does and it is kind of infurating. I remember 2001 or 2002 against the Lakers he was throwing up 16 foot bricks instead of going for the high % shots.
posted by HATER 187 at 08:26 AM on November 17, 2005
C Webb sure gets alot of rebounds for "not mixing it up."
posted by tron7 at 08:33 AM on November 17, 2005
c-web-a very good "sleeper" in Fantasy NBA.
posted by daddisamm at 08:47 AM on November 17, 2005
Ok, has everyone forgotten last year? If I'm correct, didn't the sixers make the playoffs. Oh yeah that's right and I watched in disgust, with Cwebb pulling 3's, fade away jump shots, and 17 footers with no one guarding him. I'm sorry, but it pisses me off because I have watched Cwebb, progressively turn into a pussy. He used to dominate the east when he played for the bullets, then he went to Sac-town to start the downfall of a strong dominate big-man. He got injured in Sac. But the thing that makes his injury interesting is he has the same exact problem with his knee that Allan Houston had. It is the kind of injury that will never allow for full recovery. Cwebb will never be strong like he was before. But what I don't understand is....Ok I know dalenbart is hurt, but when he comes back they have the big man presence inside, and the 3 point shooting should be left to korver and AI. Truly, the best way to get Cwebb his buckets is to have him not take a step outside of 12-15 ft. and eat every board Dalenbart can't get. I bet if that were to happen we wouldn't be having this discussion, and basically talking about how even though he is aging, he is still a necessary big man on the Block, not the freakin arch. And lastly, come on I know he is averaging 20 and 9 but this is the east....Name 5 big men outside of J. O'neil and and the front Line of Detroit that could go to the west and take over. Not for nothing Cwebb is supposed to be putting up these numbers!
posted by Squeakytorres at 09:43 AM on November 17, 2005
Jumpshooting PFs work in the regular season (see Nowitzki, Dirk and Webber, Chris) but not in the playoffs. Webber's unwillingness to initiate contact and draw fouls was a large part of the failure of those Kings teams. Also, if he plays more than 60 games this year I'll eat my hat.
posted by sashae at 11:14 AM on November 17, 2005
Hater, believe me. I see your point. being a life long Charles barkley fan. I know what its like to watch a guy 6'4 1/2 completely dominate inside. And i was hollering everytime webber pulled up last yr from beyond 15 feet. I guess my point is, this yr it appears Mo cheeks has the right formula to get others scoring while keeping AI's shots there. they made it 6 in a row lastnight(yes it was toronto)but the numbers were AI 42pts 6asts 2 stls, Andre "iggs" 26pts 10rbs 6asts,C webb 21pts,8 rbs,7asts. There has never been a coach that could get guys scoring like that with AI taking 26 shots. Not even larry brown could develop That "2nd scorer" that iverson has needed to get to the next level. Philly is 2nd in offense early on this yr.I see them winning the division. Also, if he plays more than 60 games this year I'll eat my hat Sashae, if webber gets 20 8 7 for 50 games, thats all they'll need from him. prepare your appetite.
posted by RZA at 06:02 PM on November 17, 2005
Hater, believe me. I see your point. being a life long Charles barkley fan. I know what its like to watch a guy 6'4 1/2 completely dominate inside. And i was hollering everytime webber pulled up last yr from beyond 15 feet. I guess my point is, this yr it appears Mo cheeks has the right formula to get others scoring while keeping AI's shots there. they made it 6 in a row lastnight(yes it was toronto)but the numbers were AI 42pts 6asts 2 stls, Andre "iggs" 26pts 10rbs 6asts,C webb 21pts,8 rbs,7asts. There has never been a coach that could get guys scoring like that with AI taking 26 shots. Not even larry brown could develop That "2nd scorer" that iverson has needed to get to the next level. Philly is 2nd in offense early on this yr.I see them winning the division. Also, if he plays more than 60 games this year I'll eat my hat Sashae, if webber gets 20 8 7 for 50 games, thats all they'll need from him. prepare your appetite.
posted by RZA at 07:29 PM on November 17, 2005
Grr I hate Chris Webber, he is always injured and he fucked up Michigan basketball. Even with him the Sixers won't go anywhere because of a nifty, very talented, recent champion Detroit Pistons (who as of this point are the only undefeated team in the NBA, take that Larry Brown you son of a bitch!)
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 07:55 PM on November 18, 2005
GO SIXERS! Sixers are the best NBA team ever win win win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
posted by Dav at 07:58 PM on November 18, 2005
If Webber stays healthy?? His age is catching up with his game.