11/05/24
October 25, 2005
When Fists are Frozen: The Statue of Tommie Smith and John Carlos.: Perhaps the main reason the statue is so good, so different, from things like Martin Luther King, Jr. shot glasses and Mohandas Ghandi mouse pads, is that it was the inspiration not of the school's Board of Trustees but a group of students who pushed and fought for the school to pay proper respect to two forgotten former students that epitomized the defiance of a generation.
posted by the red terror to other at 12:31 PM - 18 comments
I agree with grum@work on both accounts - especially regarding the picture.
posted by Joey Michaels at 01:27 PM on October 25, 2005
click here to see "freaking picture of the statue"
posted by the red terror at 01:27 PM on October 25, 2005
Thank you. Seeing it, I really, really wish that Norman was part of the image (as opposed to just really wish). Anyhow, good links and thanks!
posted by Joey Michaels at 02:03 PM on October 25, 2005
it polarized and further split an already racially divided nation. too bad they didn't go on to make a ral contribution to civil rights instead of a controversial one.
posted by irunfromclones at 02:16 PM on October 25, 2005
Disagree, irunfromclones -- I think you're confusing cause and effect, and also remembering selectively. Martin Luther King, Jr. is currently remembered through rose-colored glasses, but at the time of the Montgomery bus boycott (for example), the white part of that "racially divided nation" considered him a common rabble-rouser. The nation didn't suddenly become "racially divided" when black people got angry enough to raise their fists over it; it's just that prior to that, white people could ignore the fact that white America and black America were two different worlds.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:21 PM on October 25, 2005
irunfromclones - It takes all sorts. Contribution comes in many forms. I would have never guessed that something like that would have been commemorated in statue. It will be interesting to see how it is embraced in the long term.
posted by gspm at 02:22 PM on October 25, 2005
I live here in the Bay Area, and the reaction to the statue was very low key. Media coverage was minimal. A lot of students did not know who they were. I guess I look at what Rosa Parks accomplished versus Smith & Carlos. We were becoming nore divided because we did realize it was two different worlds. We just couldn't see how to easily make them one. I was three when I saw my first black person. They just were not to be found in Northern Michigan in those days. He was a conductor on a train we were taking to Chicago. I was more curious than afraid as he held out his hand, and he laughed at my puzzled face as I checked to see if the color rubbed off. My parents never taught us that people were different because of color-only by what they said and did. I raised my kids that way too and I am proud that they never stop at a person's exterior.
posted by irunfromclones at 02:56 PM on October 25, 2005
I guess I look at what Rosa Parks accomplished versus Smith & Carlos. We were becoming nore divided because we did realize it was two different worlds. We just couldn't see how to easily make them one. Not everyone can, or has the opportunity to, make the same sized contribution. IMO, by late '68 much of the momentum from events like the March on Washington was dissipating as white kids went off into the hippy/Summer of Love scene and a lot of Americans thought the Civil Rights Act would solve the problem with a little more time. These two athletes used the forum they had to show this was not the case, as did Ali in rejecting his draft notice.
posted by billsaysthis at 03:56 PM on October 25, 2005
Norman really is the Invisible Man here, isn't he? I've had that iconic image of Smith and Carlos etched into my brain since I was a little kid when it happened and I've seen it multiple times since. But for the life of me, I don't think I ever noticed there was a white Aussie on the podium.
posted by the red terror at 04:05 PM on October 25, 2005
I don't think I ever noticed there was a white Aussie on the podium. Damn reverse discrimination...
posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:35 PM on October 25, 2005
nothing special or great about 2 people(regardless of color) disrespecting the National Anthem and the flag. Nothing. It was wrong and it demonstrates what has gone wrong with sports and society since that period by putting SELF ahead of COUNTRY! Just another liberal attempt to glorify those who can't hack it in the real world! Tear it down!
posted by bluekarma at 11:17 PM on October 25, 2005
Your trolling still needs some work, bluekarma. If you had played your hand a little smoother, you might have drawn some people into your trap. But you came on too strong (using liberal) and it was too obvious what you were attempting to accomplish. Keep trying. But not here.
posted by grum@work at 11:25 PM on October 25, 2005
Grum, It's bluekarma. Aren't you asking a bit much of him? Meanwhile, an interesting perspective on the episode can be found in Vince Mathews's "My Race Be Won." He was a quarter-miler in the same Olympics, and he also got into less-publicized trouble for a similar protest.
posted by ajaffe at 07:32 AM on October 26, 2005
It was wrong and it demonstrates what has gone wrong with sports and society since that period by putting SELF ahead of COUNTRY! Nothing could be further from the truth. They sacrificed the personal glory of their achievement, and the accolades that it would bring, to make an attempt to better the world. There are times that I consider politics an unwelcome intrusion into the world of sport. This was so huge I think you have to recognize the impact in the country at large, like when Muhammed Ali became a conscientious objector during the Vietnam War. This is a nation founded on disobedience to an unjust government. People forget that whenever someone voices dissent that doesn't match their own views.
posted by rcade at 07:45 AM on October 26, 2005
Can you imagine what it must have been like to be a young black teenager in 1968, watching Smith and Carlos on the TV? It would have been lump in the throat, tears in the eyes, shiver up the spine stuff. Don't say they never did anything for civil rights. Inspiration takes many forms.
posted by owlhouse at 08:49 AM on October 26, 2005
Why is it that the ones who always talk a big game about about honoring liberty and the flag are always the first to denounce anybody that actually exercises personal freedom in a way that they don't like? It's a very totalitarian "do as I say, not as I do" mindset that cannot abide people that think and behave differently than they do. That's why patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
posted by the red terror at 09:45 AM on October 26, 2005
I never thought of it that way owlhouse. Hell, I get tingly watching Fisk's '75 homerun and I was in the womb at the time.
posted by yerfatma at 10:45 AM on October 26, 2005
I wish there was a way to have Norman as part of the stature, and still allow the "stand with" option. As long as Norman has no problem with it, I don't see how I could really complain. That said, where is a freaking picture of the statue in the article?