04/17/24
August 10, 2005
Krueger is fired: Bye-bye to Giants announcer.
i guess "freedom of speech" isn't for broadcasters
posted by stopthepuckbob at 05:18 AM on August 10, 2005
Yes, you absolutely have a First Ammendment right to voice whatever opinions you hold while in the employ of someone. Or maybe that right only applies to private individuals. Would you continue to pay the salary of someone who, while working for you, voiced opinions you found offensive and opinions that hurt your business? I guess freedom isn't for employers.
posted by yerfatma at 06:08 AM on August 10, 2005
I listen to Giants games on KNBR occasionally. They have a really free-wheeling pregame show in which all of the hosts are outspoken. If Krueger was one of those hosts, it seems excessive to fire him over a single remark. His comment was out of bounds, but how many baseball experts have used the expression "you don't walk off the island," which generalizes about Caribbean players just as much as Krueger's comment? I think this is Alou and his players engineering a mutiny against their broadcasters to take the pressure off themselves. One of the Chicago teams tried the same thing a few years ago, and I knew that it meant their season was officially over. Any club with enough time to organize group meetings against a comment on a radio show has its eye off the prize.
posted by rcade at 06:18 AM on August 10, 2005
i guess "freedom of speech" isn't for broadcasters Auugh. Krueger still has the right to say it. He just isn't getting paid to do it any more.
posted by rcade at 06:19 AM on August 10, 2005
Krueger has the right to say it and KNBR has the right to fire him!
posted by daddisamm at 08:23 AM on August 10, 2005
Yup. I see nothing out of order here. Really, the Giants had no other choice. Hey, he can express his First Amendment rights anywhere. If he can get another radio job, right on. He could start a blog, do a podcast of his bon mots if he has any, hell, he could get an account here and tell us all about it if he likes. But he had to know where the line of acceptability was, and he crossed it. When you talk about racial issues in the USA, you have to tread very carefully, lest you wind up saying something boneheaded like this.
posted by chicobangs at 09:03 AM on August 10, 2005
i guess "freedom of speech" isn't for broadcasters If that was the case imagine what things could be said about players who really deserve to be blasted by the media . There has got to be limitations set up or things would get out of hand .
posted by evil empire at 09:12 AM on August 10, 2005
I think this is Alou and his players engineering a mutiny against their broadcasters to take the pressure off themselves What I don't get is why Alou won't accept Krueger's apology.
posted by tommysands at 09:15 AM on August 10, 2005
Alou's had a history of having to deal with racism, doesn't he? (I mean above and beyond being a Latino ballplayer in the '60s when that was still a fairly new concept.) Regardless, how he deals with Krueger's apology is entirely his business.
posted by chicobangs at 09:19 AM on August 10, 2005
Chico, I don't disagree with anything you said. Alou can handle it any way he wants. But I would like to think that he is bigger than this incident and would simply accept the apology and get on with trying to win some games.
posted by tommysands at 09:29 AM on August 10, 2005
Tommy, I'm sorry -- I'm saying there is an incident in Felipe Alou's past that would skew him away from being forgiving about this. Bob Ryan dropped a loud hint about it on PTI yesterday or the day before, but he didn't elaborate. Does this ring a bell for anyone?
posted by chicobangs at 09:33 AM on August 10, 2005
Not sure about Alou, but this is the sorta the straw that broke the camel's back as far as the Giants' season is concerned. I'm with rcade on this one. And for god's sake, please understand the first amendment before you start quoting it. Please? No one took Kreugers' first amendment rights away - his boss took away his microphone.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:45 AM on August 10, 2005
Don't forget Felipe' played in an era of extreme prejudice towards latin players as well as african americans . I'd bet he remembers very well how he was treated and is protecting his players. His first contract was for 200 dollars with the Giants back in 1955 .
posted by evil empire at 09:51 AM on August 10, 2005
Well Kreuger was right, they are hacking at bad pitches nightly. The rest of the team is too. So to be P.C. he should have said; "The Caribbean players are hacking" "The African American players are hacking "The Caucasion players are hacking "The Central American players are hacking Insensitive in pointing out the Caribbean players only? Yes. Worth getting fired over? Hell no! As for the parady in the radio station, so what, I listen to KNBR to be entertained, not to hear softball party line info on the lousy Giants. Frankly I think the radio station was looking for an excuse to clean house. No retirement for Agnew I guess. What a shame!
posted by mikemora at 09:52 AM on August 10, 2005
mike, see the previous thread on this subject. It contains a table of on base perecentages for the team. Thet table suggests the Latin players are the least offensive hackers on the Giants, so it smells bad that he singled them out.
posted by yerfatma at 10:03 AM on August 10, 2005
I don't think it was the "hacking at bad pitches" reference that got Kreuger in trouble, mike; rather, I think it was the "brain dead Caribbean" reference that probably did it.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 10:44 AM on August 10, 2005
Now they have to go after that nutjob announcer in San Diego. He called Hee Soep Choi "chop-chop." Sure he sucks and he wiffs alot but should that be said on the radio? Oh, and just for good measure, on another occasion he called Doug Mienkewicz a "nimrod." I guess you can say stuff like that in Sn Diego but not in San Francisco!
posted by that1z at 11:31 AM on August 10, 2005
You can have freedom of speech. You just have to make sure it is politically correct.
posted by dbt302 at 11:33 AM on August 10, 2005
"Giants shortstop Omar Vizquel had compared Krueger's comments with the offensive ones made by former Atlanta reliever John Rocker in a Sports Illustrated article in 1999." Braindead may be a bit harsh but someone needs to tell Omar that Venezuela is not in the Caribbean; and it is not even an island!
posted by that1z at 11:41 AM on August 10, 2005
that1z, for what it's worth, I somehow doubt Krueger (or Rocker, for that matter) would have made that distinction himself. And dbt302, have you read the rest of this thread? That's not even close to how these things work.
posted by chicobangs at 12:04 PM on August 10, 2005
You can have freedom of speech. You just have to make sure it is politically correct. Explain. And then explain how that applies.
posted by yerfatma at 12:07 PM on August 10, 2005
Well, as of last night, I guess the discussion of should he or shouldn't he is moot. The ax sure came down. Krueger screwed up, but Agnew and Rhein were just putting on a morning show, which frequently is comedy-laden and offends by definition, eg. John London, Not Just Sports Show. This has gotten out of hand and I feel the clammy hand of political correctness grabbing up the situation. These guys are pros and everybody screws up once in a while. Shove them in the doghouse and let them out after a while. This was a gross overreaction. "He shoulda slud!" Dizzy Dean
posted by calcynic at 12:46 PM on August 10, 2005
i guess "freedom of speech" isn't for broadcasters No it isn't. I m in broadcasting school and you have no idea how many things are banned. If the station doesn't like it, you are out.
posted by tina at 01:24 PM on August 10, 2005
Oh, and just for good measure, on another occasion he called Doug Mienkewicz a "nimrod." Doug is white so it is ok that they call him names. He is not in a "protected class" as the ACLU would put it!!!
posted by jojomfd1 at 01:38 PM on August 10, 2005
jojomfd1: What? How is calling one person a nimrod the same thing as disparaging the mental capacity of an entire ethnic group?
posted by chicobangs at 01:51 PM on August 10, 2005
If the station doesn't like it, you are out. I don't mean this as an insult, tina, but are you training for your first job, maybe? No workplace that I've ever been in has had absolute freedom of speech. Don't believe me? Get a job somewhere, anywhere, and walk out into the workplace and bellow, "The CEO is an incompetent, snot-gobbling moron!!!" at the top of your lungs. And if you end up working in radio, and -- very likely if you're in the US -- working for a Clear Channel station, I'm quite sure that you'll find yourself working under a generous load of restrictions above and beyond those imposed by the FCC.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:57 PM on August 10, 2005
that1z: Braindead may be a bit harsh but someone needs to tell Omar that Venezuela is not in the Caribbean; and it is not even an island! I haven't ever been to the Caribbean or discussed this with anyone from the region, but it wouldn't greatly surprise me if residents of some coastal countries like Venezuela considered themselves part of the Caribbean. After all, we don't use the term "Mediterranean" to refer to just Sicily, Sardegna and the Greek Isles. And, just as not all of France (for example) considers itself defined by the Med, I'd expect that the feeling varies among Venezuelans depending on where they're located. But I certainly don't find the idea of referring to Venezuela as "Caribbean" absurd.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:00 PM on August 10, 2005
These guys are pros and everybody screws up once in a while. Mistakes are getting the stats wrong. Someone spouting racist stuff is not a mistake. If Krueger didn't think like that, he would never have said it. The only "mistake" he made was revealing his true colors.
posted by bperk at 03:30 PM on August 10, 2005
Tina... The best way to approach anything you're told in broadcasting school is to completely ignore it. Unless, of course, they tell you that the pay is lousy, the hours are brutal, and you better know how the morning show likes their coffee.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:34 PM on August 10, 2005
I thought this was the place where We can practice free speech? While it was a really dumb comment, I always believed that the press was supposed to be un-biased? If that's not true, then I am very confused .
posted by melcarek69 at 05:22 PM on August 10, 2005
WTF does that have to do with free speech/ the First Ammendment? Salon's take (good read).
posted by yerfatma at 10:27 PM on August 10, 2005
Yes the hours are brutal. Despite what anyone thinks, when you are in a major market and you make any sort of out of line comment like that you are done or you are in the doghouse (unless you are known for that). Oh and no lil bat I have worked since I was 14. I am not clueless as to how the workplace is. But when you are in that environment you get away with a hell of a lot more than when you are broadcasting. Wow you must be assuming things that are completely off about who I am or what i am about, first the mascot fiasco, then track, now this........................... Don't assume so much cause they know what they say about those who assume things......................................
posted by tina at 01:32 PM on August 11, 2005
and I dont mean that as an insult either.
posted by tina at 01:33 PM on August 11, 2005
and I dont mean that as an insult either. Sure you don't, hon, and no insult is taken. But maybe you ought to thicken up your own skin a bit, right, and don't be so quick to assume insult from others. Plenty of people who are in broadcast school have, in fact, never had a job before; it's not an unreasonable question -- and it was a question, not a statement or (as you erroneously state) an assumption.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:36 PM on August 11, 2005
On Saturday, Alou continued his criticism of Krueger, saying that people from several countries that comprise the Caribbean "were offended by that idiot. This guy offended hundreds of millions of Caribbeans." Kind of a brain dead statement. The population of Cuba is 11,346,670 million. The population of Dominican Republic is 8,950,034. The population of Haiti is 8,121,622. The population of Venezuela is 25,375,281. The population of Columbia is 42,954,279. Hundreds of millions indeed.
posted by geekyguy at 09:53 PM on August 14, 2005
I guess it would be more accurate to call him a talk-show host.